Are you for Traditional Values? What do you think about Muslims and Christians joining together to uphold Conservative Values in the West?

A Freeman

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The Koran/Quran was NOT inspired by the devil, as anyone who has actually read it can see for themselves.

As it repeatedly states in the Koran, it was sent to CONFIRM the Scripture that came before it, and specifically names that Scripture to be The Law and the Gospel found only in the Bible.

The Old Covenant, New Covenant and Koran/Quran, when correctly translated and understood, are in PERFECT agreement. And all three parts of The Book therefore make it crystal clear that the lawful penalty for child molesters, child traffickers and those who teach children the lie there are allegedly more than two genders, or that they can cross-dress or change the gender of the body that God provided for them, is death.

This is what everyone should agree upon and work to implement, IF they truly love all children and each other as much or more than their own children or themselves.
 

DesertRose

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For the newbies please do not feed this troll.@Tookie
The ignore function works wonders.
For all others, please continue if you have something to contribute to the topic.
Should conservative people from different faith groups join to put a stop to the grooming of their kids?
We are not interested in kids getting indoctrinated with these values at any age.

Muslim Parents SHUT DOWN School Board Meeting Over LGBT Books!

 
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TokiEl

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DR has asked you not to troll her thread and you continue to do so by posting nonsense. It seems that's all that's left on these forums are members with mental health issues who are probably incredibly lonely IRL.
This applies to you as well...

Do not blaspheme the work of the Holy spirit.


If you can't recognize what is of God and what is of satan... you should sit down and shut up when the shepherde is speaking.
 

Lurking009

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Mind providing examples?
The Koran and Bible cancel each other out in terms of evil and righteousness. Faith in the Koran requires the rejection of Christ. Faith in the Bible requires the rejection of all other gods including Allah. Therefore, these are two opposing beliefs which cannot be reconciled.

Koran: Righteousness and evil -
2:
It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteousness is this that one should believe in Allah

40: And the blind and the seeing are not alike, nor those who believe and do good and the evil-doer...

2: Evil
is that for which they have sold their souls-- that they should deny what Allah has revealed, out of envy that Allah should send down of His grace on whomsoever of His servants He pleases; so they have made themselves deserving of wrath upon wrath, and there is a disgraceful punishment for the unbelievers.

Bible: Righteousness and evil -
Romans 3:22 but it is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction...

Romans 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a depraved mind, to do those things that are not proper, 29 people having been filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, and evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, and malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God...

Hebrews 3:12 Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.

Koran: Rejects Christ -
5: They are unbelievers who say, ‘God is the Messiah, Mary’s son.’ For the Messiah said, ‘Children of Israel, serve God my Lord and your Lord. Verily whosoever associates God with anything, God shall prohibit him entrance to Paradise, and his refuge shall be the Fire, and wrongdoers shall have no helpers.’ They are unbelievers who say, ‘God is the Third of Three.’

9: The Jews say ‘Ezra is the Son of God’; the Christians say, ‘The Messiah is the Son of God.’ That is the utterance of their mouths, conforming with the unbelievers before them. God assail them! How they are perverted! They have taken their rabbis and their monks as lords apart from God, and the Messiah, Mary’s son – and they were commanded to serve but One God; there is no god but He;

Bible: Proclaims Christ -
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.

Col 1:15 He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything He might have supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through His blood, shed on the cross.

1 John 4:13 We know that we live in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.

Koran: Convert or die, kill the unbelievers -
4: They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of Allah; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper except those that betake themselves to a people who are joined with you by a compact [treaty], or come to you with breasts constricted from fighting with you or fighting their people.

9: Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush.

47: When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds...

Bible: Calls to preach the gospel, love unbelievers and treat them with kindness -
Luke 6:35 But love your enemies and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil people.

Matt 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you 45 in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Titus 5:3 Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, 2 to slander no one, not to be contentious, to be gentle, showing every consideration for all people. 3 For we too were once foolish, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. 4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we did in righteousness, but in accordance with His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

1 Pet 3:15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
 
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Lurking009

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Thanks for participating.
Got my answers,
Revised proposal :)
Muslims in the West should work with the Christians who want to work with them in opposing the gay agenda, gender identity, and preferred pronoun legislation.
I know my answer was not what you were looking for but I thought is was a very good question and was happy to respond.

Edit to add: Yes, I am in 100% agreement that we should each work towards stamping out the grooming and brainwashing of children, among other things, as best we can - it is disgusting and evil. I simply disagree on the method proposed.
 
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Lurking009

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yoke: See: bondage , curb , fetter , include , incorporate , join , lock , subjection , thrall :oops::D
Practicing Muslims with any understanding of the faith would never put forth such a notion of being yoked with people of a different faith.

Do you share the same values as all your co-workers?
People have cooperated with people with differing values and beliefs in many domains.
Heck, you cooperate with atheists all the time so much so that they have taken over your societies, and satanism is on the rise.

Okay, you are against this proposal, noted.
Agreeing with or teaming up with another religion has never been part of my work experience. At work I am Christian just as I am at home. I'm not part of any generic religious co-op with co-workers.

Teaming up sounds all well and good... until Muslims want to install sharia law to 'fight evil'. In reality, traditional values are different for Muslims and Christians, so whose values would they all agree to and stand upon?
 
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Lurking009

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We just need to make an effort, God will take care of the rest.
... and herein lies the problem: which God? Obviously you mean the Islamic god, I know that. But by saying 'we need to make an effort' and 'God will respond', you have assumed and inserted your god and forced everyone under that umbrella.

Bottom line: When non-believers see Christians and Muslims banding together, their conclusion will be that there is no difference between the Christian God and the Muslim God.
 
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Alanantic

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... and herein lies the problem: which God? Obviously you mean the Islamic god, I know that. But by saying 'we need to make an effort' and 'God will respond', you have assumed and inserted your god and forced everyone under that umbrella.

Bottom line: When non-believers see Christians and Muslims banding together, their conclusion will be that there is no difference between the Christian God and the Muslim God.
Nor the Jewish God, since they all are Western interpretations of some Ideal Being like themselves.
 

Daze

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... and herein lies the problem: which God? Obviously you mean the Islamic god, I know that. But by saying 'we need to make an effort' and 'God will respond', you have assumed and inserted your god and forced everyone under that umbrella.

Bottom line: When non-believers see Christians and Muslims banding together, their conclusion will be that there is no difference between the Christian God and the Muslim God.
Me and you both know well Christians worship the man called prophet repeatedly in the Bible..

The crowds answered, “This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.” (Matt 21:11)

..while Muslims say Jesus was a prophet only and not worthy of worship.

Of course you will never admit this because it shows you as the deviant one.
Those before you (Jews) says Jesus is not divine.
Those after you (Muslims) say Jesus is not divine.
Lets not forget those among you, Christians who say Jesus is not divine. Of which we have several here at VC.


Lets be clear here with "which god". The same God that Christian Arabs call Allah.

Palistinian priest.jpg
 
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Lurking009

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Me and you both know well Christians worship the man called prophet repeatedly in the Bible..

The crowds answered, “This is Jesus, the prophet from Nazareth in Galilee.” (Matt 21:11)

..while Muslims say Jesus was a prophet only and not worthy of worship.

Of course you will never admit this because it shows you as the deviant one.
What are you talking about? Of course Christians worship Jesus Christ as Lord. That is Christianity. Where did I fail to admit that?

Those before you (Jews) says Jesus is not divine.
Those after you (Muslims) say Jesus is not divine.
Lets not forget those among you, Christians who say Jesus is not divine. Of which we have several here at VC.
They are not Christian.

Lets be clear here with "which god". The same God that Christian Arabs call Allah.
The God of the Holy Bible is not the god of the Koran. If Arabs worship Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible and reject all other gods, then they are indeed Christian. If not, then they are not.
 
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Daze

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The Koran and Bible cancel each other out in terms of evil and righteousness. Faith in the Koran requires the rejection of Christ. Faith in the Bible requires the rejection of all other gods including Allah. Therefore, these are two opposing beliefs which cannot be reconciled.

Koran: Righteousness and evil -
2:
It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteousness is this that one should believe in Allah

40: And the blind and the seeing are not alike, nor those who believe and do good and the evil-doer...

2: Evil
is that for which they have sold their souls-- that they should deny what Allah has revealed, out of envy that Allah should send down of His grace on whomsoever of His servants He pleases; so they have made themselves deserving of wrath upon wrath, and there is a disgraceful punishment for the unbelievers.

Bible: Righteousness and evil -
Romans 3:22 but it is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction...

Romans 1:28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a depraved mind, to do those things that are not proper, 29 people having been filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, and evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, and malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God...

Hebrews 3:12 Take care, brothers and sisters, that there will not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.

Koran: Rejects Christ -
5: They are unbelievers who say, ‘God is the Messiah, Mary’s son.’ For the Messiah said, ‘Children of Israel, serve God my Lord and your Lord. Verily whosoever associates God with anything, God shall prohibit him entrance to Paradise, and his refuge shall be the Fire, and wrongdoers shall have no helpers.’ They are unbelievers who say, ‘God is the Third of Three.’

9: The Jews say ‘Ezra is the Son of God’; the Christians say, ‘The Messiah is the Son of God.’ That is the utterance of their mouths, conforming with the unbelievers before them. God assail them! How they are perverted! They have taken their rabbis and their monks as lords apart from God, and the Messiah, Mary’s son – and they were commanded to serve but One God; there is no god but He;

Bible: Proclaims Christ -
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.

Col 1:15 He [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church; He is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything He might have supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, 20 and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through His blood, shed on the cross.

1 John 4:13 We know that we live in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God.

Koran: Convert or die, kill the unbelievers -
4: They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of Allah; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper except those that betake themselves to a people who are joined with you by a compact [treaty], or come to you with breasts constricted from fighting with you or fighting their people.

9: Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush.

47: When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds...

Bible: Calls to preach the gospel, love unbelievers and treat them with kindness -
Luke 6:35 But love your enemies and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil people.

Matt 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you 45 in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

Titus 5:3 Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed, 2 to slander no one, not to be contentious, to be gentle, showing every consideration for all people. 3 For we too were once foolish, disobedient, deceived, enslaved to various lusts and pleasures, spending our life in malice and envy, hateful, hating one another. 4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we did in righteousness, but in accordance with His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

1 Pet 3:15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
Rejection?
Faith in the Koran requires the rejection of Christ.
1689979322781.png

Don't you mean rejection of the worship of a man who never once asks for it in your holy book?

Once again, There are Christians who reject prophet worship, so you can't claim this is Biblical teaching. Unless you can produce the verse where Jesus says "worship me". But we both know it doesn't exist.


I have skimmed over your post and lets be honest its ridiculous. There is nothing the Bible calls to that the Quran clearly forbids.
This for example..
It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteousness is this that one should believe in Allah
This is all about the direction of prayer when the qiblah was changed. Its like you google searched the word "righteousness" and just quoted the verse.


The Red points

Alleged rejection of Christ


Of course Muslims don't worship Jesus, this is the main difference between us.

If you went back to what Jesus actually brought one could say the only difference. For example Muslims don't eat pork and you do, however 32 verses in the Bible forbid its consumption.

Quran, convert or die

4.jpg
Ya, that's the Bible


Love preach and kindness

I have just shown the Bible says to kill the disbeliever, even your wife if need be. But i digress.

Can you not produce one clear Biblical verse / belief that ALL Christians support that the Quran denies?


Honestly, this is a joke.
 

Daze

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What are you talking about? Of course Christians worship Jesus Christ as Lord. That is Christianity. Where did I fail to admit that?
You mean your sect does. There are millions of Christians who reject this beleif. There are at least 3 here to my knowledge.

They are not Christian.
I actually laughed at this because of course.

If they don't believe what you do then they must be infidels. With 40,000 sects in Christianity, i wonder what it is like to be the only one upon truth when compared to the other 39,999 Christians?

Lucky you.

The God of the Holy Bible is not the god of the Koran. If Christian Arabs worship the God of the Holy Bible and reject all other gods, then they are indeed Christian. If not, then they are not.
The same deity sent the Torah, Injeel and the Quran. Feel free to reject this all the way to judgement day. I mean its not sending me to hell.

1689980854790.png


Edit : btw..
If Christian Arabs worship the God of the Holy Bible
Even you fail in this requirement. There are like 6 or 7 Biblical verses where Jesus is called a PROPHET, not God. the people who walked with Jesus, not a single one took him for God.

When they sought to seize Him, they feared the people, because they considered Him to be a prophet. (Matt 21:46)


Not to mention 90 verses in the Bible reject the divinity of Christ.

"My god, my god, why have you forsaken me" (Matthew 27:46)

Jesus is god? Inconceivable.
 
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Lurking009

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Rejection?


View attachment 89121

Don't you mean rejection of the worship of a man who never once asks for it in your holy book?

Once again, There are Christians who reject prophet worship, so you can't claim this is Biblical teaching. Unless you can produce the verse where Jesus says "worship me". But we both know it doesn't exist.


I have skimmed over your post and lets be honest its ridiculous. There is nothing the Bible calls to that the Quran clearly forbids.
This for example..


This is all about the direction of prayer when the qiblah was changed. Its like you google searched the word "righteousness" and just quoted the verse.


The Red points

Alleged rejection of Christ


Of course Muslims don't worship Jesus, this is the main difference between us.

If you went back to what Jesus actually brought one could say the only difference. For example Muslims don't eat pork and you do, however 32 verses in the Bible forbid its consumption.

Quran, convert or die

View attachment 89124
Ya, that's the Bible


Love preach and kindness

I have just shown the Bible says to kill the disbeliever, even your wife if need be. But i digress.

Can you not produce one clear Biblical verse / belief that ALL Christians support that the Quran denies?

Honestly, this is a joke.
I've already pointed out very clearly how the Koran rejects Jesus Christ as Lord while the Bible proclaims Him as Lord. The topic is about coming together against evil, which I've given my thoughts on. Further detailed discussion into Jesus Christ might be off-topic, but I had to mention it in earlier posts to explain my position. I'm sure there are other threads for that. Suffice it to say we do not agree.
 

Daze

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I've already pointed out very clearly how the Koran rejects Jesus Christ as Lord while the Bible proclaims Him as Lord. The topic is about coming together against evil, which I've given my thoughts on. Further detailed discussion into Jesus Christ might be off-topic, but I had to mention it in earlier posts to explain my position. I'm sure there are other threads for that. Suffice it to say we do not agree.
If the Bible proclaims Jesus as lord why does he himself worship God?

1689981886216.png

Have you noticed how often the Bible depicts Gods will being different form Jesus?

Yet Jesus clearly says "behold Israel, your God is one"

"not as i will, but as you will"... bi-polar? Whats going on here?
 

JoChris

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What are you talking about? Of course Christians worship Jesus Christ as Lord. That is Christianity. Where did I fail to admit that?



They are not Christian.



The God of the Holy Bible is not the god of the Koran. If Arabs worship Jesus Christ of the Holy Bible and reject all other gods, then they are indeed Christian. If not, then they are not.
What they are demonstrating is why I don't bother interacting with Muslims on forums.

They assume they aren't interacting with people who know something about what they hide.

 

Daze

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What they are demonstrating is why I don't bother interacting with Muslims on forums.

They assume they aren't interacting with people who know something about what they hide.

Come off of it polytheist. You have never liked Muslims and I'm willing to bet a good 500 of those 6000 posts of yours mention Islam in some negative way. If not more. Shall we quote some?

Why don't you ponder on this one? Pay attention to what i have highlighted.

1689985907341.png
 
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