Comparison of JAHtruth's "The way home or face the Fire" to the bible (part 2)

The Sojourner

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That is what JAHtruth says, and you now believe.
The bible is correct and the quran is correct - only if AJH says so and if his pseudo-translation KoK says so.
Not only if AJH says so.
It is so, regardless of what anyone says, or likes to think, simply because it has to be.
He does say it, though.

The Holy Spirit would never contradict the bible or teach false doctrines.
Agreed, the Holy Spirit would never do that.
It is Satan that confuses - deceives the whole world.
The solution therefore, (as it says in TWH) is to stop listening to Satan and to learn to listen to and to follow only God, instead.
 
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3:31 The human body is nothing more than a very sophisticated (by human-standards), organic living computer, that self-reproduces and self-repairs (if it is not TOO badly damaged). It is a combination of smaller computers, e.g. brain; kidneys; liver; etc., collectively making up the whole, preprogrammed to have selfish animal-instincts, that your soul has to learn to overcome. The physical human brain operates the body and its emotions, but your mind and its feelings belong to your soul. That is why Jesus said that the flesh is worthless, and that it is only the spirit (soul - the REAL you) that has value (John 3:6 & 6:63).
As always the major thorn in the side of AJHs false doctrine is the resurrection of Christ. Why would Christ ressurect bodily if the body is just an animal standing in complete dualism with the soul. And of course we covered, why would Christ reincarnate in another body if he still has the one from 2023 years ago.
 

The Sojourner

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IMO discussion of all health issues - from both sides - mentioned in TWHOFTF is extremely important now.

e.g. If a person follows AJH literally, they would not intervene if they/ another person gets sick.

Some Christian denominations are so pro-life they are anti-euthanasia/anti-abortion no matter what.
That is not true, as people who know JAH will be able to attest to.
For instance, some time ago I got mildly sick and mentioned to JAH about having caught a bug somewhere.
His response to me was: Kiwi fruit and Vitamin C.
So I followed the advice and was soon well again.
It helped.
 
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JoChris

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Enoch
But when they shall write correctly all My words in their own languages,
104:9 They (My words) shall neither change nor diminish (Mark 13:31; Matt. 5:17-19); but when all shall be written correctly; ALL, which from the first I have uttered concerning them shall concur (John 10:35; Sura 15:9).
Neither the Book of Enoch or Sura [Quran] is in the bible.

That is not true, as people who know JAH will be able to attest to.
For instance, some time ago I got mildly sick and mentioned to JAH about having caught a bug somewhere.
His response to me was: Kiwi fruit and Vitamin C.
So I followed the advice and was soon well again.
It helped.
I remember learning when I was a lot younger, perhaps even a child that a kiwifruit had a higher vitamin C level than an orange.
The knowledge of kiwifruit being good for health is common knowledge among people who are interested in health.

If a person gives good general information or personal advice to people who need it (whether due to their head knowledge or life experiences), then good on them. It doesn't mean they are therefore is to be trusted immediately on everything.

Some people are exceptionally good people readers too.

A good example of psychological research: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect

The Barnum effect, also called the Forer effect or, less commonly, the Barnum–Forer effect, is a common psychological phenomenon whereby individuals give high accuracy ratings to descriptions of their personality that supposedly are tailored specifically to them, yet which are in fact vague and general enough to apply to a wide range of people.

Read the early research section. I remember reading that topic when I did my second year psychology subject and I immediately became skeptical of what I had been told in the past. It was overgeneralised info too.
 

The Sojourner

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Neither the Book of Enoch or Sura [Quran] is in the bible.
Don't read it because the Church says so.
Christ and the disciples quoted from it in the NT so they must have had access to it and read it though.
The Church then decided that the book of Enoch is not to be included in their canon.
I guess you can choose to trust them and their judgment, over and above Christ and the disciples - but why would a thinking person wish to do that, after they have decided that they want to follow Christ, when Christ Himself made reference to the information found in Enoch?
Maybe, it's because people have never stopped to think about it that way and they are falling into the same trap, that you wrote about in the other post (regarding the Barnum Effect).
The Church does provide some general information, and then it puts forward an "easy" path to salvation as the answer to the questions of life (rather than accurately teaching what Christ actually said is important) and so it's not really hard to see, why it is found to be appealing to just accept what they say, by so many (billions) of people.
 
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The Sojourner

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I remember learning when I was a lot younger, perhaps even a child that a kiwifruit had a higher vitamin C level than an orange.
The knowledge of kiwifruit being good for health is common knowledge among people who are interested in health.

If a person gives good general information or personal advice to people who need it (whether due to their head knowledge or life experiences), then good on them. It doesn't mean they are therefore is to be trusted immediately on everything.

Some people are exceptionally good people readers too.

A good example of psychological research: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnum_effect

The Barnum effect, also called the Forer effect or, less commonly, the Barnum–Forer effect, is a common psychological phenomenon whereby individuals give high accuracy ratings to descriptions of their personality that supposedly are tailored specifically to them, yet which are in fact vague and general enough to apply to a wide range of people.

Read the early research section. I remember reading that topic when I did my second year psychology subject and I immediately became skeptical of what I had been told in the past. It was overgeneralised info too.
Agreed, kiwifruit are good for health containing lots of vitamin C and are natural. So God obviously made kiwifruit (and many other natural foods) this way, so that it can help people to be healthy. Kiwifruit also taste good, and if you are able to find some nice ones that happen to be just at the right stage of ripeness, they taste the best.

That is all interesting information. It's good to be skeptical of what one is told and not to just accept everything blindly. The way you find out what is true and what is not is by testing the information (as Jesus told people to do).

As far as the interpretation of it meaning not to help people who are sick, I proved that not to be the case.
 
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I mentioned it, because that is (or used to be) usually what many people would ask about.
I remembered hearing it discussed briefly during a radio interview, as mentioned, but yes surely there are many others that may have greater benefit, and without the headiness.

...

As to Soros and the so-called elites pushing the use, no doubt their motives are not to help people heal, but to have as many people as possible being high all the time, so they don't care what happens to them or their loved ones and what is being done to society by the so-called elites.
Yes, that (the part i've bolded) may be, but have you ever considered that there is a deeper spiritual implication as well?

You seem to be well versed in the teachings of jah truth. Tell us, what does jah believe the "groves" mentioned throughout the old testament refer to?

I went ahead and checked a good number (though not all) of the verses mentioning "groves" in the king of kings version, and sure enough, the word "groves" appears. But even if they had been referred to as "asherah", as the new versions do, it still would be referrring to the same thing. What are these "groves" that are often mentioned in connection with idolatry or apostasy?


The word “grove” appears 41 times in the Authorized Version. Before we look at these verses, we must note one exception. Genesis 21:33 contains the first occurrence: “And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God.” This “grove” is in a positive light, as Abraham is a Bible believer. The Hebrew word is “’eshel” (Strong’s #H815), a tamarisk or myrica tree [Tamarix orientalis]. It was rendered “tree” in 1 Samuel 22:6 and 1 Samuel 31:13. This fact will prove useful to us later.

As for the remaining “grove” verses (40 in all), they are negative. We present them now, reminding you the reader to sense the associated evils:

  • Exodus 34:13: “But ye shall destroy their altars, break their images, and cut down their groves:….”
  • Deuteronomy 7:5: “But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.”
  • Deuteronomy 12:3: “And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their groves with fire; and ye shall hew down the graven images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place.”
  • Deuteronomy 16:21: “Thou shalt not plant thee a grove of any trees near unto the altar of the LORD thy God, which thou shalt make thee.”
  • Judges 3:7: “And the children of Israel did evil in the sight of the LORD, and forgat the LORD their God, and served Baalim and the groves.”
  • Judges 6:25: “And it came to pass the same night, that the LORD said unto him, Take thy father’s young bullock, even the second bullock of seven years old, and throw down the altar of Baal that thy father hath, and cut down the grove that is by it:….”
  • Judges 6:26: “And build an altar unto the LORD thy God upon the top of this rock, in the ordered place, and take the second bullock, and offer a burnt sacrifice with the wood of the grove which thou shalt cut down.”
  • Judges 6:28: “And when the men of the city arose early in the morning, behold, the altar of Baal was cast down, and the grove was cut down that was by it, and the second bullock was offered upon the altar that was built.”
  • Judges 6:30: “Then the men of the city said unto Joash, Bring out thy son, that he may die: because he hath cast down the altar of Baal, and because he hath cut down the grove that was by it.”
  • 1 Kings 14:15: “For the LORD shall smite Israel, as a reed is shaken in the water, and he shall root up Israel out of this good land, which he gave to their fathers, and shall scatter them beyond the river, because they have made their groves, provoking the LORD to anger.”
  • 1 Kings 14:23: “For they also built them high places, and images, and groves, on every high hill, and under every green tree.”
  • 1 Kings 15:13: “And also Maachah his mother, even her he removed from being queen, because she had made an idol in a grove; and Asa destroyed her idol, and burnt it by the brook Kidron.”
  • 1 Kings 16:33: “And Ahab made a grove; and Ahab did more to provoke the LORD God of Israel to anger than all the kings of Israel that were before him.”
  • 1 Kings 18:19: “Now therefore send, and gather to me all Israel unto mount Carmel, and the prophets of Baal four hundred and fifty, and the prophets of the groves four hundred, which eat at Jezebel’s table.”
  • 2 Kings 13:6: “Nevertheless they departed not from the sins of the house of Jeroboam, who made Israel sin, but walked therein: and there remained the grove also in Samaria.)”
  • 2 Kings 17:10: “And they set them up images and groves in every high hill, and under every green tree:….”
  • 2 Kings 17:16: “And they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal.”
  • 2 Kings 18:4: “He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.”
  • 2 Kings 21:3: “For he built up again the high places which Hezekiah his father had destroyed; and he reared up altars for Baal, and made a grove, as did Ahab king of Israel; and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.”
  • 2 Kings 21:7: “And he set a graven image of the grove that he had made in the house, of which the LORD said to David, and to Solomon his son, In this house, and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all tribes of Israel, will I put my name for ever:….”
  • 2 Kings 23:4: “And the king commanded Hilkiah the high priest, and the priests of the second order, and the keepers of the door, to bring forth out of the temple of the LORD all the vessels that were made for Baal, and for the grove, and for all the host of heaven: and he burned them without Jerusalem in the fields of Kidron, and carried the ashes of them unto Bethel.”
  • 2 Kings 23:6: “And he brought out the grove from the house of the LORD, without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and stamped it small to powder, and cast the powder thereof upon the graves of the children of the people.”
  • 2 Kings 23:7: “And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.”
  • 2 Kings 23:14: “And he brake in pieces the images, and cut down the groves, and filled their places with the bones of men.”
  • 2 Kings 23:15: “Moreover the altar that was at Bethel, and the high place which Jeroboam the son of Nebat, who made Israel to sin, had made, both that altar and the high place he brake down, and burned the high place, and stamped it small to powder, and burned the grove.”
  • 2 Chronicles 14:3: “For he took away the altars of the strange gods, and the high places, and brake down the images, and cut down the groves:….”
  • 2 Chronicles 15:16: “And also concerning Maachah the mother of Asa the king, he removed her from being queen, because she had made an idol in a grove: and Asa cut down her idol, and stamped it, and burnt it at the brook Kidron.”
  • 2 Chronicles 17:6: “And his heart was lifted up in the ways of the LORD: moreover he took away the high places and groves out of Judah.”
  • 2 Chronicles 19:3: “Nevertheless there are good things found in thee, in that thou hast taken away the groves out of the land, and hast prepared thine heart to seek God.”
  • 2 Chronicles 24:18: “And they left the house of the LORD God of their fathers, and served groves and idols: and wrath came upon Judah and Jerusalem for this their trespass.”
  • 2 Chronicles 31:1: “Now when all this was finished, all Israel that were present went out to the cities of Judah, and brake the images in pieces, and cut down the groves, and threw down the high places and the altars out of all Judah and Benjamin, in Ephraim also and Manasseh, until they had utterly destroyed them all. Then all the children of Israel returned, every man to his possession, into their own cities.”
  • 2 Chronicles 33:3: “For he built again the high places which Hezekiah his father had broken down, and he reared up altars for Baalim, and made groves, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them.”
  • 2 Chronicles 33:19: “His prayer also, and how God was intreated of him, and all his sins, and his trespass, and the places wherein he built high places, and set up groves and graven images, before he was humbled: behold, they are written among the sayings of the seers.”
  • 2 Chronicles 34:3: “For in the eighth year of his reign, while he was yet young, he began to seek after the God of David his father: and in the twelfth year he began to purge Judah and Jerusalem from the high places, and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images.”
  • 2 Chronicles 34:4: “And they brake down the altars of Baalim in his presence; and the images, that were on high above them, he cut down; and the groves, and the carved images, and the molten images, he brake in pieces, and made dust of them, and strowed it upon the graves of them that had sacrificed unto them.”
  • 2 Chronicles 34:7: “And when he had broken down the altars and the groves, and had beaten the graven images into powder, and cut down all the idols throughout all the land of Israel, he returned to Jerusalem.”
  • Isaiah 17:8: “And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made, either the groves, or the images.”
  • Isaiah 27:9: “By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this is all the fruit to take away his sin; when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in sunder, the groves and images shall not stand up.”
  • Jeremiah 17:2: “Whilst their children remember their altars and their groves by the green trees upon the high hills.”
  • Micah 5:14: “And I will pluck up thy groves out of the midst of thee: so will I destroy thy cities.”
Regarding the last 40 instances, it was the Hebrew word “Asherah” (Strong’s #H842). The term is defined as: “from H833 [happy]; happy; Asherah (or Astarte) a Phoenician goddess; also an image of the same:—grove. Compare H6253 [Ashtoreth, the Phoenician goddess of love (and increase)].”
These groves are associated with the worship of a phoenician goddess. Good kings of israel cut down the groves. What does this tell us about how God feels about these groves?


Marijuana is also associated with idol worship in india (this time to shiva the destroyer, who as i understand the elites pay devotion to)


However, the most popular order at Pathak’s stall, known as ‘special thandai’, is made with a dash of freshly ground bhang, an intoxicant made from the leaves of the female cannabis plant.

Bhang has long been of cultural significance in India. In Hinduism, bhang takes on special meaning as the plant preferred by Shiva, the god of destruction, who was believed to have used bhang to focus inward and to harness his divine powers for the good of the world.

In the Atharva Veda, one of the four sacred texts of Hinduism, cannabis is named one of the five most sacred plants on Earth. The text also refers to it as a ‘source of happiness’ and a ‘liberator’.

Shiva is one chill deity.

He's one of the three major gods in the Hindu religion. And he has a penchant for pot.

"Shiva loves marijuana. So we come to share Shiva's prasad [offerings] with everyone else," explains a 60-year-old holy man who gives his name as Radhe Baba.

It's the eve of the festival of Shiva Ratri, or "The Night of Shiva" — March 7 this year. The celebration marks the day Shiva saved the universe from darkness and married the goddess Parvati.

...

And they also smoke hashish. Marijuana smoke mingles with the bonfires. Both are symbols of religious devotion. Shiva, it's believed, used marijuana both to relax and to focus better for meditation.

That [smoking marijuana] makes us forget everything and we communicate with Shiva," 50-year-old Madhan Lal Baba says, sitting next to Radhe.
These people acknowledge that they are using it to communicate with something , and it's not the God of the Bible...

How much more evidence would be needed to show that consuming this plant is just as much sorcery - or idolatry, if you will - as taking pharmaceuticals?

Even common kitchen spices, like for instance turmeric have health benefits.
I read somewhere, that turmeric is more effective than ibuprofen at pain relief and it's also anti-inflamatory, while ibuprofen has many side effects that are damaging. Yet, you won't see pharma companies promoting Turmeric spice, because they want to sell and promote their products instead.
...
I do agree with you, and what you said about most people's ability to lie and be in denial. People are very irresponsible in today's society, which the so-called elites have been working to corrupt for so long. I just wanted to point out, that instead of pharmacy, there are other options and not just that, but that people changing to natural options would be better, and that is not something to be against.
I agree. I'm not opposed to natural treatments at all. While it may seem otherwise due to my defenses of the necessity of modern medicine, especially in acute emergencies, if you knew me you would know that i am quite opposed to much of modern industrialized medicine. I definitely don't believe the doctors have all the answers, nowhere close to it. I try to treat most things myself at home. But i also know that they have helped out on a couple of occasions when it was necessary. Things are more nuanced than just black and white.


The problem is that you cannot trust modern medicine to even be what it claims to be at all any more.
Who knows what they put into people's medications, as additives.
There are videos of people extracting a black magnetic substance, from things like (I believe it was) headache pills (or it may have been some other type of pharmaceutical pill or capsule).
That is most likely graphene oxide, which some researchers have also said is in the vax.
They (the so called elites) are out to depopulate and kill us, for their new world order.
So now more than ever, it is becoming foolish for people to trust that what they get is even what it says anymore.
That's just my thoughts, others may choose to believe different, but I would suggest them going online and doing some research into these claims.
You can't trust people who are out to kill you, to be truthful - it simply does not follow.
I hear you, and completely agree that people should do their research.

But also, if they're injecting the food supply with mrna there aren't going to be too many ways for the majority of people to avoid these things. In the other thread a freeman mentioned that jah does not permit "synthetic vitamins" and i asked him if that means people in countries where grain products are vitamin fortified by the govt should just not eat if they can't afford organic, lest they be commiting "sorcery". He didn't have an answer...

I also don't think dissenting views should be censored, by either side. There is much disinformation and fear p0rn being pumped out by BOTH sides.

Also, not to go on a tangent too much, but in my personal opinion, there are fates worse than death. Rather than being killed, being turned into a remote controlled antenna by the graphene oxide sounds worse. I'll just pray that the Lord will return before the elite's plans are consummated...
 

JoChris

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Don't read it because the Church says so.
Christ and the disciples quoted from it in the NT so they must have had access to it and read it though.
The Church then decided that the book of Enoch is not to be included in their canon.
I guess you can choose to trust them and their judgment, over and above Christ and the disciples - but why would a thinking person wish to do that, after they have decided that they want to follow Christ, when Christ Himself made reference to the information found in Enoch?
Maybe, it's because people have never stopped to think about it that way and they are falling into the same trap, that you wrote about in the other post (regarding the Barnum Effect).
The Church does provide some general information, and then it puts forward an "easy" path to salvation as the answer to the questions of life (rather than accurately teaching what Christ actually said is important) and so it's not really hard to see, why it is found to be appealing to just accept what they say, by so many (billions) of people.
Read experts' links on why the Book of Enoch is not included in the official bible.
Not all bible academics are Christians.
An important hint: to limit searches to ACADEMIC INSTITUTIONS ONLY, type site:.edu
Don't take the words of a man who has shown no sign of any post-high school academic training whatsoever.
Researchers don't equal "the church".
(Google search) book of enoch history bible site:.edu
 

A Freeman

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Satan: listen to worldly wise humans, who are the spiritually blind "experts" and "scholars" leading the blind, all of whom who are under my control (see: Isa. 3:12; Jer. 23:1-6; Ezek. 34:1-10; Matt. 15:1-14; John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11).

God (through His Word/Christ, His Prophets, Christ's Disciples and Apostles): listen to and obey God ONLY to gain the spiritual wisdom that can ONLY come from God (Deut. 30:15-20; Ps. 1; Matt. 5:17-20; John 7:15-20; Acts 5:29-32), Who knows EVERYTHING (Ps. 139; Matt. 24:36).


God chose Enoch to be His First Prophet (Gen. 5:21-24) because Enoch walked WITH God, i.e. his testimony pleased God, which is why Enoch is the only one God ever translated (Heb. 11:5; Sura 19:56-57).

Jude 1:14-15
1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, PROPHESIED OF THESE, SAYING, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of His holy warriors,
1:15 To execute Judgment upon all, and to convince all that are unGodly among them of all their unGodly deeds which they have unGodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which unGodly sinners have spoken AGAINST Him.

Where did Enoch prophesy these things? IN THE BOOK OF ENOCH.

Important hint:
learn to LISTEN TO GOD and walk WITH God, as Enoch did, instead of listening to Satan (the Opposer) and his worldly "experts", all of whom do not know God and work AGAINST God.

Christ doesn't need any academic "letters" nor any stamp of approval from spiritually blind men.

God -- THE Source of ALL Wisdom and Truth -- has taught Christ everything Christ knows (John 5:19-20). That is why those who strive to walk WITH God, learning humility and obedience, so that they may recognize Christ during His Second Coming WITH God's Help (Matt. 11:27; John 10:1-18; Sura 43:57-61).
 
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A Freeman

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It's truly amazing that 2000 years have gone by since the leaders of the church plotted with the state* against God's Anointed One and MURDERED Jesus, and people STILL choose to place their trust in the institutions of men (CHURCH AND STATE) instead of in God. No wonder Christ referred to them as "the blind leading the blind" (Matt. 15:13-14).

*Note well:
the church = organized religion = Talmudic Judaism at the time of Jesus, led by the Sanhedrin (the ruling body of Talmudic Judaism)
the state = the Roman government (led by the local governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate)

Enoch 58:1 Prince Michael the Archangel (Dan. 10:21; ch. 20:5) condemned and then decreed that The Judgement shall fall on CHURCH and STATE (Eze. 13:1-9; Matt. 23; Rev. 17:14; 19:2; Sura 3:64).

No wonder church and state don't want believers to read the Book of Enoch, God's First Prophet. The Book of Enoch also prophesied and exposed how to spot where the church tampered with Scriptures, and how to correct it (Enoch 104:8-11), which is another reason the church doesn't want people to read the Book of Enoch, that God has made sure is available for His "Elect" to read and digest (Rev. 19).
 
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It's truly amazing that 2000 years have gone by since the leaders of the church plotted with the state* against God's Anointed One and MURDERED Jesus, and people STILL choose to place their trust in the institutions of men (CHURCH AND STATE) instead of in God. No wonder Christ referred to them as "the blind leading the blind" (Matt. 15:13-14).

*Note well:
the church = organized religion = Talmudic Judaism at the time of Jesus, led by the Sanhedrin (the ruling body of Talmudic Judaism)
the state = the Roman government (led by the local governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate)

Enoch 58:1 Prince Michael the Archangel (Dan. 10:21; ch. 20:5) condemned and then decreed that The Judgement shall fall on CHURCH and STATE (Eze. 13:1-9; Matt. 23; Rev. 17:14; 19:2; Sura 3:64).

No wonder church and state don't want believers to read the Book of Enoch, God's First Prophet. The Book of Enoch also prophesied and exposed how to spot where the church tampered with Scriptures, and how to correct it (Enoch 104:8-11), which is another reason the church doesn't want people to read the Book of Enoch, that God has made sure is available for His "Elect" to read and digest (Rev. 19).
I love how you just quote random, unrelated verses. It's still amusing.
 
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It's truly amazing that 2000 years have gone by since the leaders of the church plotted with the state* against God's Anointed One and MURDERED Jesus, and people STILL choose to place their trust in the institutions of men (CHURCH AND STATE) instead of in God. No wonder Christ referred to them as "the blind leading the blind" (Matt. 15:13-14).

*Note well:
the church = organized religion = Talmudic Judaism at the time of Jesus, led by the Sanhedrin (the ruling body of Talmudic Judaism)
the state = the Roman government (led by the local governor of Judea, Pontius Pilate)

Enoch 58:1 Prince Michael the Archangel (Dan. 10:21; ch. 20:5) condemned and then decreed that The Judgement shall fall on CHURCH and STATE (Eze. 13:1-9; Matt. 23; Rev. 17:14; 19:2; Sura 3:64).

No wonder church and state don't want believers to read the Book of Enoch, God's First Prophet. The Book of Enoch also prophesied and exposed how to spot where the church tampered with Scriptures, and how to correct it (Enoch 104:8-11), which is another reason the church doesn't want people to read the Book of Enoch, that God has made sure is available for His "Elect" to read and digest (Rev. 19).
Also this anachronistic projecting of the 17th century concept of a "Nation State" (and in particular, the notion of Sovereign secular States most commonly associated with the US declaration of Independence written in the 18th century) back onto the Bible, Apocrypha and the Qur'an - is just pathetic.

You not only do not know scriptures (that said, you have mutilated versions altered by AJH) but you also don't know anything about the history of the very recent ideas that you promote as if they were common across all of history.
 

A Freeman

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I love how you just quote random, unrelated verses. It's still amusing.
Also this anachronistic projecting of the 17th century concept of a "Nation State" (and in particular, the notion of Sovereign secular States most commonly associated with the US declaration of Independence written in the 18th century) back onto the Bible, Apocrypha and the Qur'an - is just pathetic.

You not only do not know scriptures (that said, you have mutilated versions altered by AJH) but you also don't know anything about the history of the very recent ideas that you promote as if they were common across all of history.
There's nothing random about the verses cited, nor anachronistic about the proper calling out of CHURCH (organized religion) and STATE (governments). After the flood they have been in existence since ancient Babylon, which gave birth to these BUSINESSES, later proliferated through their direct descendants, the Romans (Rev. 17:5; Sura 17:5-7), who took them all over the world.


What is troubling you is that you have been conned by one of the franchises (sects - Sura 6:159) of the BUSINESS that deceitfully refers to itself as "Islam". Your ego/"self" (Luke 9:23; Gal. 2:20; Sura 6:162) has convinced you it likes the way the product that they sell (the illusion of being a pious believer) makes you feel, and therefore your "self" doesn't appreciate the wake-up call that its leaders are leading you to your destruction, exactly as we've been warned for thousands of years (Isa. 3:12; Matt. 15:1-14; Sura 9:107-111).

It seems you are similarly under the delusion that governments at every level are somehow not also corporate fictional BUSINESSES that very obviously do NOT serve the people, but instead are tools used to oppress us. If you don't see nor understand the relationship between church and state, and the goal of both of them -- to sell the illusion that they can provide things which God ALONE can provide, e.g. freedom, justice, peace, prosperity, safety and security -- then how will you ever learn to properly differentiate between good and evil?
 

The Sojourner

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Read experts' links on why the Book of Enoch is not included in the official bible.
Not all bible academics are Christians.
An important hint: to limit searches to ACADEMIC INSTITUTIONS ONLY, type site:.edu
Don't take the words of a man who has shown no sign of any post-high school academic training whatsoever.
Researchers don't equal "the church".
(Google search) book of enoch history bible site:.edu
Jesus is expert enough for me.
He quoted from it.
So, why would I choose to trust other so-called academic "experts" opinions, over the opinion of Christ and His disciples?
They all quoted from it, so its worth reading Enoch.

If there's one thing I've learned about the so-called academic "experts"... it's that they are experts on... nothing of any real value.

Unless I'm mistaken, @JoChris
You left Catholicism and became Baptist? And if so, did you do that because of experts, or, was it because you knew (because you were shown and Guided from within) to make that change. I'm not trying to speak for you and obviously don't know what your experience was (and could be mistaken) but you must have had your own reasons (if it was you that I'm thinking of).

Experts can help to an extent by providing information, but its up to each individual to do their own analysis of any provided info, and then to come to a conclusion if they are right or wrong. And also, compare their conclusions with what we can learn from other sources. We are not to trust the experts blindly, because they are also imperfect human beings like us, and can be even more lost than the people who are looking to them for answers and may also have hidden agendas. The real truth, comes to us from within us, when it is confirmed.
 
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nor anachronistic about the proper calling out of CHURCH (organized religion) and STATE (governments).
Yes it is, the Nation-State concept was created in the 17th century and started being shipped globally in the 18th century through the impact of the Declaration of Independence of the USA.

States functioned completely different throughout history prior to this. You are speaking through a modern and proto-modern (by 2 centuries) lens and projecting it back onto past history and making your claims from that.
 

JoChris

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I separated the entry into two topics:

Jesus is expert enough for me.
He quoted from it.
So, why would I choose to trust other so-called academic "experts" opinions, over the opinion of Christ and His disciples?
They all quoted from it, so its worth reading Enoch.
The Book (Letter) of Jude is where the passage of Book of Enoch is mentioned.
It is not a Gospel. Jesus does not speak there.
Jesus occasionally refers to passages in the Book of Genesis.

If there's one thing I've learned about the so-called academic "experts"... it's that they are experts on... nothing of any real value....

Experts can help to an extent by providing information, but its up to each individual to do their own analysis of any provided info, and then to come to a conclusion if they are right or wrong. And also, compare their conclusions with what we can learn from other sources. We are not to trust the experts blindly, because they are also imperfect human beings like us, and can be even more lost than the people who are looking to them for answers and may also have hidden agendas.
If there's one thing I have learned it is very unwise to overgeneralise and put everything in a box straight away.

Where it comes to research/ gaining information in general, you do not rely on the works of ONE scholar, one source etc.
People do not know everything. People - including scholars - can have an agenda. etc. etc.

That is why textbooks especially have a massive amount of information sources in the reference lists and bibliography - to prove that the author/s have read widely, have collected data from a huge amount of different sources to support how they reached their sometimes controversial conclusions etc. etc.

I would never buy a product just because a famous actor says it is wonderful.
I would never change who I vote for because someone on the other side of the world says "the Prime Minister/ Opposition Minister is a great guy [so vote for him]."
I had my surgeries done after researching what experts said, not from a few patients' testimonies who said it "yes it changed my life"/ "no... things are worse now".
 
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I have no stake in the 1 Enoch game but it's worth noting that it was a very popular book in the 2nd Temple period.
But it is worth pointing out that even though it was still in the cultural consciousness of the New Testament writers, it was not only rejected in the Jewish canon for the Tanakh ("Old Testament") but it was also rejected by the Church in including it in the Christian Old Testament (which differed from the Tanakh by including more books regarded by Protestants as "Apocrypha"). Keep in mind that the Church were not unaccustomed to viewing Jews at the time as fierce enemies, so their removal had nothing to do with siding with Jews on the matter.
So if matters such as proving the divinity of Jesus were of concern to the validity of a text's canonical status then the Church would've included 1 Enoch in their canon, but they didn't.
This contrasts with the inclusion of books like "The Wisdom of Solomon" which was canonized and used in early Church discourse in 'proving' the divinity of Jesus.

So it's rejection from Biblical canon has more to do with not only Christians but Jews also holding the conclusion that it was not written by Enoch, even if it had prior been quite influential.
 

JoChris

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You left Catholicism and became Baptist? And if so, did you do that because of experts, or, was it because you knew (because you were shown and Guided from within) to make that change. I'm not trying to speak for you and obviously don't know what your experience was (and could be mistaken) but you must have had your own reasons (if it was you that I'm thinking of).
You will probably be surprised. My faith walk has been very convoluted, rather like C.S.Lewis' "The Pilgrim's Regress".

A minor factor was because I went to a range of different churches over the years because my husband's job made us move cities [joys of a military family]. Different denominations have their own strengths and weaknesses.

I had a severe faith crisis that lasted for years after all of what I had believed RE personal experiences and hearing from God vanished completely. I backslid to where I might have well been an atheist.

When I heard a man preaching what I recognised as the Gospel in a Melbourne suburb, it brought back memories and I decided to investigate Christian apologetics FROM EXPERTS for the first time. Thanks to the Internet I could find everything I wanted to know at the drop of a hat.

And no, I still don't feel or hear anything from God. I have had some answered prayers, I can look back on my life and see how God has intervened.
I can see how the churches I have been attending have been exactly what I needed at the time.
I can recognise why I am at this particular tiny town church that many big city folk would find very hard to stay at long-term.
These people LIVE their beliefs, they don't pretend.
The size of the church means a mask of righteousness comes off pretty quickly.

The real truth, comes to us from within us, when it is confirmed.
From "The way home or face the fire"'s foreward:

Whilst reading this Book, as when reading any of the Guardian Of Divinity’s Books, you must ask Him to interpret it correctly for you, as you are reading it, and listen for His telepathic enlightenment. If not, you will have Satan confusing you into misinterpreting it. Ask the Lord to interpret it for you, in preference to ANY human+being, except me.

If you suddenly lost all spiritual feelings, all goosebumps, all "hearing from God in your mind" when you do what you do now to receive this telepathic enlightenment, if what Anthony John Hill said or JAHtruth's websites left you cold and bored..

if you lost spiritual feelings/ hearings 100%

do you still think you would be a JAHtruther in a year or two? You don't have to answer here if you don't want to.
 

The Sojourner

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Thank you for sharing @JoChris. I will respond separately to the topics raised as well.

The Book (Letter) of Jude is where the passage of Book of Enoch is mentioned.
It is not a Gospel. Jesus does not speak there.
Jesus occasionally refers to passages in the Book of Genesis.
In Mark 12 when Jesus was in a dialogue with the Sadducees, a question came up about marriage in heaven. Jesus answered them and said that they err in their question because they do not know the Scriptures. He then proceeded to explain that angels do not marry.

Mark
12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the Scriptures, neither the power of God?
12:25 For when they shall rise from the "Dead", they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

You would agree with me, that this is the first and only place talking about angels marrying and that Jesus here equated knowing the Scripture to “knowing that angels do not marry”.

The Scripture is found in (1st) Enoch 15 - where the Lord of Spirits declares that because the angels are everlasting, they have not been appointed wives.


It is not found anywhere else, in any book of the Bible, except when Jesus spoke of it. Jesus declared, that since the Sadducees did not know this, they did not know the Scriptures and therefore were erring in their questioning (Jesus is calling Enoch Scripture).

Below are some of Jesus’ quotes from the New Testament, with their corresponding linkages to the book of Enoch:

  1. (John 14:2): In my Father’s house are many mansions.
    (
    Enoch 45:3): In that day shall the Elect One sit upon a throne of glory, and shall choose their conditions and countless habitations.
  2. (John 12:36): That ye may be called the children of light.
    (
    Enoch 108:11 {105: 25}): The righteous from the generation of light.
  3. (John 4:14): The water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
    (
    Enoch 48:1 {48:1}): All the thirsty drank, and were filled with wisdom, having their habitation with the righteous, the elect, and the holy.
  4. (Matt. 5:5): Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
    (
    Enoch 5:7 {6:9}): The elect shall possess light, joy, and peace, and they shall inherit the earth.
  5. (John 5:22): The Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the son.
    (
    Enoch 69:27 {68:39}): The principal part of the judgment was assigned to him, the Son of man.
  6. (Matt. 19:29): Those shall inherit everlasting life.
    (
    Enoch 40:9 {40:9}): Who will inherit eternal life.
  7. (Luke 6:24): “Wo unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
    (
    Enoch 94:8 {93:7}): Woe to you who are rich, for in your riches have you trusted; but from your riches, you shall be removed.
  8. (Matt. 19:28): Ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
    (
    Enoch 108:12 {105:26}): I will place each of them on a throne of glory.
  9. (Matt. 26:24): Woe unto that man through whom the Son of man is betrayed! It had been good for that man if he had not been born.
    (
    Enoch 38:2 {38:2}): Where will the habitation of sinners be . . . who has rejected the Lord of spirits? It would have been better for them, had they never been born.
  10. (Luke 16:26): Between us and you, there is a great gulf fixed.
    (
    Enoch 22: 9,11{22:10,12}): By a chasm . . . [are] their souls are separated.

Why did they remove the Book of Enoch?

The Book of Enoch was viewed as scriptural in the Epistle of Barnabas (16:4), as well as by many early Church Leaders, including Athenagoras, Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus, and Tertullian, who wrote around 200 that the Jews had dismissed the Book of Enoch since it includes prophecies about Christ.
 
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