Misunderstanding Israel

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You were always wrong about isaiah 14, you didnt tell me anything and its good of you to corrupt scripture to suit made up arguments whilst throwing large portions of it behind your back.

it was 1922 i looked it up. Historical palestine inc west transjordan. 75% of the Palestinians lived there and it was splintered off in 1921(by design) followed by a consensus of the 25% remaining in new palestine.
The depths youll go to lol to make a point, only to prove my point even further.
 

TokiEl

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You were always wrong about isaiah 14, you didnt tell me anything and its good of you to corrupt scripture to suit made up arguments whilst throwing large portions of it behind your back.
You're not the arbiter of right or wrong.



Isaiah 14 is not so hard to understand.

A fallen heavenly being called Crescent who wills five pillars and sit like the Most high in Jerusalem... but will end up in the Pit of Souls.
 
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You're not the arbiter of right or wrong.



Isaiah 14 is not so hard to understand.

A fallen heavenly being called Crescent who wills five pillars and sit like the Most high in Jerusalem... but will end up in the Pit of Souls.

1) the mountain mentioned in isaiah 14 is not connected with jerusalem
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon


2) this chapter was about the king of babylon
Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
17 the man who made the world a wilderness,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home



it is unreal that im having to explain this to you.

the problem is even the term lucifer used here in the original context was a reference to Venus as a symbol of wisdom, it was used in jest here.


so basically you have nothing left to cling into and every single one of your anti islam arguments fall flat on their ass.
you xtians are a joke.
 

TokiEl

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1) the mountain mentioned in isaiah 14 is not connected with jerusalem
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon


I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;



The mount of congregation is the mount where the israelites congregated for a thousand years since the Most high had His temple there.

On the farthest sides of the north is where the temple mount is which king Herod made to accommodate a roman legion in Jerusalem.

YHWH's temple where the stars or priests of the Cloud or God ministered was situated above the Gihon spring about 600 feet south and so below the temple mount which was the roman fort in Jerusalem.



2) this chapter was about the king of babylon
Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
17 the man who made the world a wilderness,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home
Isaiah 14:12-15 is injected into a prophecy about the king of Babylon and is specifically about the fallen heavenly being called Crescent who wills five pillars and sit like the Most high in Jerusalem... but will end up in the Pit of Souls.



the problem is even the term lucifer used here in the original context was a reference to Venus as a symbol of wisdom, it was used in jest here.
The original word is Helel which in arabic is hilal and means crescent.
 
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I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;



The mount of congregation is the mount where the israelites congregated for a thousand years since the Most high had His temple there.

On the farthest sides of the north is where the temple mount is which king Herod made to accommodate a roman legion in Jerusalem.

YHWH's temple where the stars or priests of the Cloud or God ministered was situated above the Gihon spring about 600 feet south and so below the temple mount which was the roman fort in Jerusalem.





Isaiah 14:12-15 is injected into a prophecy about the king of Babylon and is specifically about the fallen heavenly being called Crescent who wills five pillars and sit like the Most high in Jerusalem... but will end up in the Pit of Souls.




The original word is Helel which in arabic is hilal and means crescent.


1)

I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon


in otherwords, from the pov of that king, he thought Mount Zaphon was the gateway to heaven and hence 'the mount of assembly'
the mount of assembly is a mythical place in the mind of man. just as a jew would believe the real mount of assembly is in jerusalem, a pagan king of babylon would reject that and seek it elsewhere eg mount zaphon.

how dumb are you? seriously it is right there, mount zaphon..and you're still claiming it's jerusalem.

2) no, lucifer is not satan, never was. it was only a reference to the morning star in connection with wisdom. it was used in jest here.
despite openly being about the king of babylon, you think it refers to satan.

plus, all of this is your attempt to save face whilst trying to change the topic. You claimed that the 'gentiles trampling' was designed as gentiles being evil occupiers. Whereas in Revelation 11, they're there on the temple mount for 1260 days (in this case fulfilled as 1260 lunar years of muslim rule)....that is longer than the jews ever did and a lot more than the christians. This is in line with what Jesus said that the vineyard would be given to another people who would produce the fruits.
This is in line Ishmael becoming a great nation and it makes sense post Christ, eg the law given to gentiles, just as Moses gave it to israelites...in a post-faith context.

and if all that wasn't enough, Rev 12 directly links to the 1260 days prophecy to the wilderness (again, islam) and tells us the true remnant were protected in the wilderness. That is, symbolic of them becoming muslim. they follow commandments (the law) AND believe in the testimony of Jesus.

finally, no, Jesus was only the saviour in an earlier context that doesnt apply anymore.
the cross for example is a dead symbol. how ironic. a dead symbol with zero power over sin and it symbolises roman imperialism...rome being the beast. hence the cross is now the symbol of the beast. so how can it have any power over sin now? it doesnt..which is why the christian world has brought the whole world into sin.
 

TokiEl

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1)

I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon


in otherwords, from the pov of that king, he thought Mount Zaphon was the gateway to heaven and hence 'the mount of assembly'
the mount of assembly is a mythical place in the mind of man. just as a jew would believe the real mount of assembly is in jerusalem, a pagan king of babylon would reject that and seek it elsewhere eg mount zaphon.
Listen you can interpret it as you like and i interpret it as i like.

We are not arbiters of right or wrong... but just put our two cents in.

And that's it and that's that.
 

Stucky

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So this guy visits Israel on a hasabara tour, probably set up by South African-Israel forum or South African Friends of Israel . Spends 9 hours on a flight where he drinks lots of water (apparently he didn't use the plane toilet) and the first question he asks upon leaving the plane is 'where is the blacks only restroom'

Do the people who write these articles think everyone is stupid?

Maybe if Mr.Mokgomole had visited a few months earlier he would have been witness to this spectacle,

 
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Red Sky at Morning

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@Stucky - from my reading of the Bible, I don’t get the sense that the Jews gathered back to Israel in the last days will be perfect, in fact Ezekiel is brought to the valley of Dry Bones and asks @can these bones live?”. On the other hand, if you read Zechariah 12, you definitely get the sense of an international consensus against Israel developing.

It would seem to me that over the last 75 years or so, the predominately Muslim nations have had a go to destroy Israel militarily on a number of occasions, the most recent serious attempt being in 1973. Since then the “Palestinian narrative” espoused by Yassir Arafat has been the preferred tool of delegitimisation. This angle is naturally popular with many Muslims, but also with Christians who adopt a Replacement theology.

I have no interest in arguing back and forth of familiar ground, but I will say this. If the vast majority of people stand against you, but you have peace in your heart before God, that is greatly to be preferred than to have the approval of those who oppose Him. Of course, in certain situations, it is more populist to stand with Israel than against, but as Kanye demonstrates, the tide is changing, and it’s heading the other way fast.
 

Yahda

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Israel is a people not a place.

Exodus 4: 22- So you will say to Pharaoh, Thus says the LORD: Israel is my SON, my FIRSTBORN. 23 I said to you: Let my son go, that he may serve me. Since you refused to let him go, I will kill your son, your firstborn
Jew is short for the tribe of Judah.

Will Israel be saved according to GOD?

Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Are they to keep the Law?
Ecc 12:13- 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
 
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Stucky

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@Stucky - from my reading of the Bible, I don’t get the sense that the Jews gathered back to Israel in the last days will be perfect, in fact Ezekiel is brought to the valley of Dry Bones and asks @can these bones live?”. On the other hand, if you read Zechariah 12, you definitely get the sense of an international consensus against Israel developing.

It would seem to me that over the last 75 years or so, the predominately Muslim nations have had a go to destroy Israel militarily on a number of occasions, the most recent serious attempt being in 1973. Since then the “Palestinian narrative” espoused by Yassir Arafat has been the preferred tool of delegitimisation. This angle is naturally popular with many Muslims, but also with Christians who adopt a Replacement theology.

I have no interest in arguing back and forth of familiar ground, but I will say this. If the vast majority of people stand against you, but you have peace in your heart before God, that is greatly to be preferred than to have the approval of those who oppose Him. Of course, in certain situations, it is more populist to stand with Israel than against, but as Kanye demonstrates, the tide is changing, and it’s heading the other way fast.

I'm struggling to understand what your comment has to do with the comment i made or the comment i responded to.

Anyway. I have absolutely....absolutely no interest in what Kanye says. I have absolutely no interest in theology. All theology imo is an enemy of the Gospel. I care even less (if that were possible) when that theology has the prefix 'replacement', which i know is just a polite 'christian' zionist way of calling someone an anti semite or Jew hater.

I have no idea what Yasser Arafat has got to do with anything here.

Back to the article i responded to. It really is desperation when zionists use an almost 8 year old article to try and deflect from the claims that Israel is an apartheid state. It's almost laughable, but becomes wholly laughable when you see the video of the guy making his 'where are the blacks only restrooms' claim. Maybe it would have been slightly less laughable and embarrassing if he could control his smirk. Watch it Here

On that theology issue. Did you know that guy Amir, the hasbarist, whose videos you are quite fond of posting, believes taught that Michael and Jesus are one and the same? It was very cringy watching him try to explain the 'mistake' he made
 
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TokiEl

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Did you know that guy Amir, the hasbarist, whose videos you are quite fond of posting, believes taught that Michael and Jesus are one and the same?
Jesus was somebody before birth on earth.


In the Old Testament titles like Adonai Messiah and Son of Man are specifically applied to Him.

He is also the second Person in the Tetragrammaton.

He is even the Angel of the LORD... who is also known as Michael the Archangel ?


As far as i am concerned and i am the shepherde... Jesus is all that.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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Israel is a people not a place.

Exodus 4: 22- So you will say to Pharaoh, Thus says the LORD: Israel is my SON, my FIRSTBORN. 23 I said to you: Let my son go, that he may serve me. Since you refused to let him go, I will kill your son, your firstborn
Jew is short for the tribe of Judah.

Will Israel be saved according to GOD?

Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Are they to keep the Law?
Ecc 12:13- 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Israel became the place that was promised to a people. The drama of their cycles of rebellion, displacement, repentance, restoration …and rebellion again have played out through the millennia. None of that will negate God’s ultimate purposes, but just what these things might play out is the subject of great speculation.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I have absolutely no interest in theology. All theology imo is an enemy of the Gospel. I care even less (if that were possible) when that theology has the prefix 'replacement', which i know is just a polite 'christian' zionist way of calling someone an anti semite or Jew hater.
Believe it or not, “theology” is the crux of it.

I am sure I am no more a “Jew lover” than you are a “Jew hater”.

Put simply, God either has a future purpose for Israel or He doesn’t. The implications of how the Lord deals with disobedience and rebellion (as with the Jews) tells us something of how God will treat us.

God has either sidelined and replaced the Jews in his plan or He has “grafted in” the Church still has a purpose for both physical and spiritual Israel (as per Romans 11).

We could argue about examples of moral failures and acts of altruism by individual or groups of Israelis and could doubtless find examples of both. I would suggest that the physical seed of Abraham will be no better or worse as unbelievers than any other unbelievers, but I don’t think the analysis of behaviour shines any light on God’s plans.
 
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Red Sky at Morning

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Zechariah 12 - King James Version

12 The burden of the word of the Lord for Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.

3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

4 In that day, saith the Lord, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.

5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the Lord of hosts their God.

6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

7 The Lord also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
 

Axl888

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I think the easiest way to address this is by taking each point on its own merit:

1) Jesus specifically was asked and spoke about the destruction of HIS Jerusalem ie the one he stood in.

In Matthew 24, the question Jesus addresses

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

2) that he referred to Daniel 9...and the 'abomination of desolation' which are TEMPLE CENTRIC.

The Abomination of Desolation (Mark 13:14-23; Luke 21:20-24)

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

Most commentators agree that the “holy place” echoes back to the prior desecration of the Second Temple by Antiochus Epiphenes. It is presumed that a future temple will be built and desecrated by an abomination (of some nature) at a point in the future.

You have a very specific view of this, you think some bearded muslim is going to stand in the temple as the abomination and then claim himself to be God.

This is where you misunderstand. ^^

Joel Richardson wrote “Mideast Beast” inferring by references to “The Assyrian” that the AC would be Muslim. I read Chris Whites “Islamic Antichrist Debunked” and agreed with his estimation. The likelihood of Jews being seduced by a Muslim are pretty slim and anyway, the Bible doesn’t suggest that.

A far more likely candidate for the philosophy of the AC is espoused by this secular Jew:


that is impossible with islam. we dont believe in mangods like you and likewise muslims are against a temple, so certainly won't be standing in one.

My hope is that Muslims do not worship the Antichrist but oppose him. I don’t think many Muslims buy into the “Homo Deus” / 2042.com transhumanist message any more than Christians do.

the reason why muslims are against the temple may be skewed a little but for me it's the fact that Jesus is the temple....remember that fella?

“Jesus is the Temple” - I know that elsewhere (In John 2) Jesus says:

19…“Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20Then the Jews said, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21But He was speaking of the temple of His body. 22Therefore, when He had risen from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this to them; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had said.

I think this is unrelated to the context of Matthew 24.

3) you've then also got to take into account ALL the ezekiel 38 prophecies and understand they are entirely seperate from the Daniel 9 prophecy..

Ezekiel 38/39 and Daniels 70th week are separate, but are both spoken of as occurring “in the latter days”. Additionally Jeremiah’s prophecy of Elam, the events of Isaiah 17 etc are also in this general timeframe. How they relate to one another, timescales.

and hence that stupid '3.5 years' theory of yours has absolutely no standing. you imagine a deal between muslims and israel, a 7 year peace treaty..where midway muslims invade jerusalem.

Hopefully you can see that is not my position. I’m not conflating the actions of the Antichrist with respect to Jerusalem with the actions of some (presently Muslim majority) countries led by “Gog” (possibly a Russian leader) in an unsuccessful assault against Israel. Worth noting that other (presently Muslim) countries decry that invasion but fail to act.
Bro, this guy or girl (you are arguing with) would be good press secretary for Biden administration lol...lies relentlessly, well we all know who is the father of lies.
 
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