"The muslim trinity"

[Resistor]

The law has shutup the whole world in sin and determined that all are abhorrent and deceitful in light of Gods holiness. There is not one who is not guilty before God of some form of wickedness. When God looks into the human heart many vile offences are laid out before him.... Pride, deceit, envy, foolishness, malice, hatred, lust, and etc... We usually reserve such words and judgments for those who's evils stick out like sore thumbs, yet the same condemnation resides upon everyone who's sins haven't been blotted out by the blood of Jesus.

These are only human problems.

Your theology anyway defies Sin to the the point of it being so far above God, that God couldn't forgive sin.

 

[Resistor]

The worst things you could possibly imagine, the most extreme worst, are not even a microscopic speck compared to God.

Why is it that Christians think that Sin is so powerful that God can't even deal with it?

They have a small god I tell you, small god (so small it doesn't deserve to be capitalized).

 

[Resistor]

Christians paint an image that Sin is so powerful that it is equal enough to God to be a challenge that God itself has to face in order to overcome it.

Utter absurdity.

 

[Lyfe]

Sin is what separates us from God. Not just morally, but metaphysically as well. We are unclean, defiled, corrupted and, because of this we do not have direct access to him...

There is forgiveness in God, but only through Christ. We have all violated Gods laws and just like when we break the law on earth we are punished accordingly. If you go before a judge he isnt going to let you off the hook, because you are sorry. He is going to sentence you no matter how much remorse you have, because you are guilty. If he is a just and fair judge then he must uphold the law and to do otherwise is a perversion of justice. If you have violated Gods laws then you are guilty and will be sentenced. If an earthly judge must judge without partiality and sentence the guilty think of how much more a perfectly holy and just God will.... This is why Christ is the only hope. Sin cannot go unpunished. God cannot just look the other way and let all this transgression go unanswered for. The demands for justice have to be satisfied.

 

[Resistor]

Sin is what separates us from God. Not just morally, but metaphysically as well.

And you expect people to take you seriously when you think Sin is so powerful that it separates you from the creator and source of existence?

What you amount to saying is that if you Sin hard enough, you will actually become greater than God.

 

[Lyfe]

And you expect people to take you seriously when you think Sin is so powerful that it separates you from the creator and source of existence?

What you amount to saying is that if you Sin hard enough, you will actually become greater than God.

The wages of sin is death and as scripture says your iniquities have separated you from God. Through Adam sin entered into the world and through sin death. Its not me you don't take seriously. Its the Bible.... Sin separates you from God.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Muslims missing the point just because they say one thing doesnt mean - that what they are doing doesnt fall under the same definition.

An uncreated book, that takes on personhood at judgement day, and gives testament of u. Is exactly the same concept of a Godlike being that exists other than Allah, as a seperate part of Allah while not being Allah but has that attributes sounds like another form of God, just because u dont claim it doesnt mean its any different to the concept, the point being made is it is similar albeit not the same to the concept of trinity.

Its like saying muslims dont worship the kaaba, they clearly do. Cognitive dissonance.

takes on personhood at judgement day, and gives testament of u. Is exactly the same concept of a Godlike being that exists other than Allah, as a seperate part of Allah while not being Allah but has that attributes sounds like another form of God,

1) if you were to meditate on and attain gnosis of a tree, it would appear to you in an animated form on the etheric level. You would think it is a spirit. This experience is personal and is really the brain interpreting information from another dimension into a form that's relatable/understandable. That's why we perceive God or angels and so forth in animated from, it doesnt mean that is their true reality.
The religious experience offers us an anthropomorphised/animated experience of realities/concepts we're not truely otherwise capable of understanding. It's kind of a shortcut/hack of the system. Some concepts are explained through parables/similitude eg the descriptions of paradise, hell..like the gardens/trees/fruits/flowing rivers. they are symbolic of aspects of our own consciousness.

The Quran taking on an animated form and speaking as a witness against humans...
that's like in Jeremiah 2&3 the jews were told STONES/TREES will speak as witnesses against them (comparing them to an adulteress). What sort of lunatic would one need to be to magically start claiming stones/trees are aspects of God?

2) God being Immanent through other things, does not make those things God. God is Immanent in ALL things, it's a matter of perception...the mystical experience.
However you have to have balance and know how to differentiate between the logical truth and the mystical truth.
for example, if you had a personal experience of God, where you saw God in a tree (as Moses heard God from a burning bush), if you started bowing to God...a witness might take that literally and either condemn you as a blasphemer/disbeliever or resort to worshipping trees..and miss the entire point.

3) no we dont worship the kaaba. Nor do Jews worship the wall/temple mount.
You're trying to deflect here..you worship a man-god literally, your theology states you do openly.
nowhere in islamic theology does it say the kaaba is God, worthy of worship, divine etc.
if the kaba was destroyed, muslims would still be performing pilgrimage and praying.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

The wages of sin is death and as scripture says your iniquities have separated you from God. Through Adam sin entered into the world and through sin death. Its not me you don't take seriously. Its the Bible.... Sin separates you from God.

People don’t realise the gravity of sin till they encounter God’s holiness...

Isaiah 6

Isaiah Called to Be a Prophet

6 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple. 2 Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one cried to another and said:

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts;
The whole earth is full of His glory!”
4 And the posts of the door were shaken by the voice of him who cried out, and the house was filled with smoke.

5 So I said:

“Woe is me, for I am undone!
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King,
The Lord of hosts.”
6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a live coal which he had taken with the tongs from the altar. 7 And he touched my mouth with it, and said:

“Behold, this has touched your lips;
Your iniquity is taken away,
And your sin purged.”
8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying:

“Whom shall I send,
And who will go for Us?”
Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”

 

[Resistor]

The wages of sin is death and as scripture says your iniquities have separated you from God. Through Adam sin entered into the world and through sin death. Its not me you don't take seriously. Its the Bible.... Sin separates you from God.

That doesn't say much. If you mean physical death, then that is just the de facto of living organisms. All things that are born are made to die, everything has a lifespan.

Go to Romans 6:22, the verse before, Paul is obviously lying. Christians aren't sinless, they still sin as Christians.
Also note how Paul uses the term "slaves of God". Yet when such a phrase is used in Islam you think of it so negatively Just not a whole load of honesty between you and Islam.


Anyway, as Revelation 21:8 says
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

So so much for "God is love". In the context of the supposed sacrifice, your god is a deity of conditional love and nonsense.

All you have done is move the goalposts from "believe in God and go to heaven" to "believe that God is Jesus and then go to heaven" which far from an improvement. Your narrative is just terrible.

 

[Resistor]

Basically Christian soteriology can be summed up in the following words:

"Jesus died so that those who believe that he died for your sins will not perish but have eternal life, but those who don't believe that he died for your sins will go to hell anyway"

As I've said, pathetic. The most crude of all popular belief systems.

 

[Lyfe]

Its not so much lack of belief that condemns someone to hell moreso than it is their sin and breaking the law. God has revealed to you his arm to save and you have rejected it. Christ gave himself as a ransom. He took upon himself the punishment for sin so that your case could be legally dismissed and you could be in right standing with God and not have your trespasses counted against you. You have rejected his desire to save you though so you will be left to deal with the consequences of breaking his laws which calls for divine justice without partiality. God desires mercy and love, but he is also moral and will judge sin as all sin is punished. You will appear before him one day and he will remind you of this exchange and other times when he sent Christians to inform you of the gospel. You will lament when you remember the times he tried to reach out to you...

 

[DevaWolf]

You will lament when you remember the times he tried to reach out to you...

Ahh let's use the threat of hellfire again when we're out of arguments. Such a convenient thing, instilling fear in people. Well, I won't bow to a God who uses fear to make me worship him.
I either worship out of love or I worship nobody, honestly the God of the Bible sounds like one of the worst dictactors I ever heard of.
He 'loves' his creation but burns and tortures them forever just for not believing in him. Yeah, true love right there.
I can't even begin to say how much this concept angers me.

 

[Resistor]

Its not so much lack of belief that condemns someone to hell moreso than it is their sin and breaking the law.

Uh uh, no. We're not talking about overall Abrahamic views, we're talking about the supposed benefits you claim with your narrative of the incarnation and his "sacrifice".
As I've said, your soteriology has only shifted the goalposts to being about believing Jesus died for your sins. The change between just believing in God to believing in Jesus is a pathetic one. From Monotheism to Idolatry.

As I've already said, you exactly the same basic soteriological outline, you just include one extra element that turns it from a decent view to being an absurdity.
Jesus' "sacrifice" did not abolish Hell, so it amounts to being Judeo-Islam with an extra step (a meaningless extra step that is).

If Jesus' "sacrifice" abolished Hell altogether and said that everyone was saved, then we would be having a different discussion.

As I've already said enough, your theology and soteriology is all pathetic.

 

[Lyfe]

Ahh let's use the threat of hellfire again when we're out of arguments. Such a convenient thing, instilling fear in people. Well, I won't bow to a God who uses fear to make me worship him.
I either worship out of love or I worship nobody, honestly the God of the Bible sounds like one of the worst dictactors I ever heard of.
He 'loves' his creation but burns and tortures them forever just for not believing in him. Yeah, true love right there.
I can't even begin to say how much this concept angers me.

Like many others your not actually interested in processing and weighing(w/ out grudge) information that substantiates God or the Bible so I am not going to spend time trying to legitimize something to you that you had already predetermined to rule out. You don't want or truly seek after balanced answers toward God and the things of God. You don't even want or are looking for a well put together argument as if you even thought to consider anything that was said before the hellfire out of arguments conclusion . You have the internet and if you wanted any of that and truly thirsted after real knowledge and understanding rather than scorn you wouldn't seek me to give it to you. You don't want moral and balanced understanding of his ways. You want to remain justified in your rebellion and contempt toward God. You don't want him and he has allowed you to live as you choose despite Christians reaching out to you, but you will not be exempt from the consequences of sin and your premeditated choice to rebel against him in this life. Its like I said we have no choice in what color the sky is. We have no choice that we are born into this world. We have no choice over the seasons. If anything all life does is testify just how choiceless we are in our state of existence before we enter into the world and how choiceless we will be after we leave the world... There are fixed laws of nature. We will appear some place after we die.... You malign God when he uses his love to draw you and then you malign him when the consequences are brought to remembrance. Either way the reality isn't changed...

 

[Artful Revealer]

And hence the reason why they invented the Trinity.

In truth your "paradox" is so easily resolved. Jesus wasn't literally the "son" anymore than Jews are "literally" the sons of God (Exodus 4:22).

Your comprehension levels are beyond lamentable. No one says the Son is to be taken literally. Father-Son signifies an eternal relationship, not procreation lol.

What a goofball.

 

[DevaWolf]

Like many others your not actually interested in processing and weighing(w/ out grudge) information that substantiates God or the Bible so I am not going to spend time trying to legitimize something to you that you had already predetermined to rule out. You don't want or truly seek after balanced answers toward God and the things of God.

That's correct, I became this way after reading the Bible and being raised Christian by the way. I have never experienced anything Godly in Christian doctrine.

you wouldn't seek me to give it to you.

I'm sorry, I didn't know you considered a reply on a forum a private conversation of me seeking you

The rest of your baseless accusations I won't even answer. If you wonder why Christians get hated, it's because they play God in condeming people.

 

[seekinheart]

That's correct, I became this way after reading the Bible and being raised Christian by the way. I have never experienced anything Godly in Christian doctrine.


I'm sorry, I didn't know you considered a reply on a forum a private conversation of me seeking you

The rest of your baseless accusations I won't even answer. If you wonder why Christians get hated, it's because they play God in condeming people.

Unfortunately to follow God you have to come humble, 99 percent of people not believing is there heart. They blame God for something, thing is with the Bible is if u look abit deeper and question there are answers. But sounds to me u just stop like most people at the answer they wanted.

You condemn yourself, sometimes it takes people there entire lives on there deathbed to feel any sort of way about God. Interestingly enough the fear of God, is not a negative thing, it is a reverence that benefits us. The 2 theifs are a prime example one before his death humbled himself and believed Jesus, wether he wanted to or not, its a reflection of the heart a repentance, the guy next to him laughed and thought it was all about preserving your own life on this earth. The good theif was quoted as saying do ye have no fear of God?

39 Now one of the criminals hanging there reviled Jesus, saying, "Are you not the Messiah? Save yourself and us."
40 The other, however, rebuking him, said in reply, "Have you no fear of God, for you are subject to the same condemnation? 41 And indeed, we have been condemned justly, for the sentence we received corresponds to our crimes, but this man has done nothing criminal." 42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
43 He replied to him, "Amen I say to you today you will be with me in Paradise." 23:39–43

which theif are you?

Btw theres a big rumour that Anton LaVey on his deathbed was quoted as saying "oh my god, what have I done"

 

[Kung Fu]

The Father, the Holy Spirit and the Son exist prior to creation. That means they are imperatively coeternal, for if the Son wasn't always the Son, there would be a time when the Father wouldn't be a father, which is a paradox because they exist outside of time.

Jesus is God addressing His creation. It's the Son's or the Word's incarnation so God's Word becomes perceivable to us, so we can get to know Him. (as per premise 2)

This is faulty logic. You're projecting your beliefs of the Trinity towards Islam. Just because in your worldview the Father can't exist without the Son doesn't mean Allah can't exist without the Quran. Allah ordained the Quran at a specific point in time to be revealed to the people. All Allah needs to do is say "Be" and it is.

This is made even simpler. I can write an essay and have it done by tonight and so I willed it to be in existence at a specific point and time and now is that essay, pieces of paper, a part of me? Obviously no.

 

[Kung Fu]

These are only human problems.

Your theology anyway defies Sin to the the point of it being so far above God, that God couldn't forgive sin.

Sin has gotten to the point where a lowly form in Satan can basically hold God hostage, which is why a sacrifice needed to be made. Just the words Christians play with could be considered blasphemy.

 

[Kung Fu]

19 pages in and still no verses or verse from the Quran outlining an Islamic "Trinity".