Faith w/ Out Works: Do Works Save?

[Alanantic]

If you don't need works, can someone explain to me Matthew 25:31-45? It seems to me that works are also a requirement.

Gotta link?

 

[Lyfe]

If you don't need works, can someone explain to me Matthew 25:31-45? It seems to me that works are also a requirement.

Who here has said that?

I really don't think too many people actually reject Jesus himself...They simply reject what they perceive as the hypocritical formal institutions that claim to represent him. Kabalist Jews are likely the only people who outright reject/hate the actual person Jesus. Muslims certainly don't reject Jesus. Buddists don't. Even Hindu's don't outright reject Jesus. The average un-religious American doesn't reject Jesus...thy just don't want to deal with the religious institutions that claim to represent him.

I don't know too many people who reject "Love the lord your God with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind and Love your neighbor as yourself". They just don't happen to agree that your institution and religion represents the true God.

...actually the world does reject Jesus.

Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were [our] faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he [was] wounded for our transgressions, [he was] bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace [was] upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.
John 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.
John 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
John 15:25 But [this cometh to pass], that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

The world is perfectly fine with the idea behind Jesus or the Jesus promoted by popular culture, but tell them of the Biblical Jesus that calls sinners to repentance and they want nothing to do with him and hate the idea that they cant have both their sin and God.

 

[Alanantic]

The world is perfectly fine with the idea behind Jesus or the Jesus promoted by popular culture, but tell them of the Biblical Jesus that calls sinners to repentance and they want nothing to do with him and hate the idea that they cant have both their sin and God.

Maybe it's because they feel they don't need someone to tell them that.

 

[Lyfe]

Maybe it's because they feel they don't need someone to tell them that.

They will give an account to God someday and be found guilty for violating his laws regardless of whether they believe or not. Its not a matter of personal belief as personal belief and opinion doesnt alter reality. God has appointed a time in which he will judge the world.

 

[Alanantic]

They will give an account to God someday and be found guilty for violating his laws regardless of whether they believe or not. Its not a matter of personal belief as personal belief and opinion doesnt alter reality. God has appointed a time in which he will judge the world.

Oh, now you're just being silly.

 

[Lyfe]

Oh, now you're just being silly.

Inwardly you know there is a moral God that believes in right and wrong. Proof of that is your conscience. It didnt come from an act of evolution where everything evolved from a blob or a chaotic act of spontaneous combustion which somehow in its chaos managed to create the stars and the sun or a human hand with five fingers and a brain to think and interface with the known world. You know the world was designed intelligently. You know this intelligent designer didnt given you a conscience by accident. He gave you one, because you are created in his image and meant to have one. You know God believes in right and wrong....

 

[Alanantic]

Inwardly you know there is a moral God that believes in right and wrong. Proof of that is your conscience. It didnt come from an act of evolution where everything evolved from a blob or a chaotic act of spontaneous combustion which somehow in its chaos managed to create the stars and the sun or a human hand with five fingers and a brain to think and interface with the known world. You know the world was designed intelligently. You know this intelligent designer didnt given you a conscience by accident. He gave you one, because you are created in his image and meant to have one. You know God believes in right and wrong....

Hey, I really don't know. It could be Jiminy Cricket.

 

[Lyfe]

Hey, I really don't know. It could be Jiminy Cricket.

You have the internet at your disposal and the knowledge is there. More than enough for the skeptic...

 

[Resistor]

Faith w/ Out Works: Do Works Save?

This is a subject always brought up so I wanted to take what I posted in another thread and leave it here...

Works are an evidence of true faith, or should I say that works always accompany redeeming(saving) faith that has led to salvation. If someone has truly believed and been saved by grace through faith then it means they have been sealed and indwelt by the holy spirit. It is God through the spirit that now works in them to produce these fruits that Jesus speaks of. In fact Jesus said that "the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works."

As I've already said, you are a nihilist that believes in belief as the purpose of life. You in your belief, believe that you are born on this world to hold uncertain beliefs, and that having these beliefs will grant you supposedly heaven.
You have no meaning of life in your belief system, only the self-infatuated self-gratification of the belief itself which is an emotional, ideological and psychological currency, effective like a drug actually.

 

[Resistor]

...actually the world does reject Jesus.

The world doesn't reject Jesus, nor do Christians even technically 'believe' in him. You have texts which you believe convey the life of a man long dead. Your belief, which you term "faith", is in the psychological and emotional ideas you have associated with the contexts of such texts. You do not know Jesus in any way, you can't because he is dead. You cannot objectively know what the Jesus that the NT writers are trying to convey either because you interpret it through a Protestant lens which furthermore has it's own subjective interpretations that are expressed through your own personality.
The world doesn't reject Jesus, they reject the ideas of Jesus that Christians and Christianity have in their belief systems. Jesus is not a reality but an idea of thoughts, and of words on a page, emotions in peoples minds.

 

[Lyfe]

Looks like you got it all figured out mate.

 

[Todd]

If you don't need works, can someone explain to me Matthew 25:31-45? It seems to me that works are also a requirement.

I have asked that question at least 20 times on this forum and have never got a coherent answer!

 

[Alanantic]

I have asked that question at least 20 times on this forum and have never got a coherent answer!

Personally, I'm too lazy to look that up. I'm not a "Bible" person.

 

[A Freeman]

I have asked that question at least 20 times on this forum and have never got a coherent answer!

You're asking that question of so-called Christians who have been indoctrinated in Orwellian "doublespeak".

According to them, they believe "in" Jesus, while at the same time rejecting Christ's Teachings, in favor of their own misinterpretations of the letters of Paul. Just look at the number of self-contradictory claims being made about sinning, repentance, and being judged according to The Law that they then (falsely) claim they are free from, and don't have to keep.

Sin = doing evil/breaking The Law (God's Commandments) = DOING EVIL ACTIONS/WORKS
Repentance = stop sinning/breaking The Law = STOP DOING EVIL ACTION/WORKS
Obeying The Law = DOING GOOD/GODLY WORKS

Anyone who actually studies The Law should recognize that every offense under The Law is a form of theft. Adultery is stealing another's wife. Murder is unlawfully taking another's life. It should be self-evident that all of the financial schemes to defraud others are theft, even though theft has been "institutionalized" under the current (beast) system.

Hopefully this simple explanation will alleviate any confusion on the subject. it should also explain why Christ very clearly stated that everyone will be judged according to their works. There would otherwise be no reason for Christ to tell us He WILL separate the sheep from the goats on Judgment Day.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.

Revelation 20:12-13
20:12 And I saw the "Dead", small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another Book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life: and the "Dead" were judged out of those things which were written in the Books, according to their works.
20:13 And the "sea" gave up the "Dead" which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their WORKS.

No wonder James (Jesus' half-brother) very plainly and truthfully stated there is no such thing as faith (trust in God) without good (Godly) works (James 2:17-26). If someone is disobeying God (sinning), they are obviously working for Satan, and showing their lack of faith by their evil works.

 

[seekinheart]

U know whats for certain when u come on this forum is there is a consensus against Bible believing christians, its always astonishing.

 

[Tidal]

If you don't need works, can someone explain to me Matthew 25:31-45? It seems to me that works are also a requirement.

Which bit of that passage do you mean exactly?
Fact is, mankind has built great cities and things but the world is still a mess, so all that work hasn't done him any good because he's neglected his spiritual development.
That's why the only work that should count above all else is-
"Work out your own salvation.." (Philip 2:12 KJV)

 

[Todd]

Which bit of that passage do you mean exactly?
Fact is, mankind has built great cities and things but the world is still a mess, so all that work hasn't done him any good because he's neglected his spiritual development.
That's why the only work that should count above all else is-
"Work out your own salvation.." (Philip 2:12 KJV)

Just worry about me and take care of myself? Yeah that's a Christ like attitude! LOL!

 

[Todd]

U know whats for certain when u come on this forum is there is a consensus against indoctrinated christians who believe in the traditions and interpretations of instituitionalized religion.

Fixed it for you!

 

[Todd]

Personally, I'm too lazy to look that up. I'm not a "Bible" person.

31 `And whenever the Son of Man may come in his glory, and all the holy messengers with him, then he shall sit upon a throne of his glory;

32 and gathered together before him shall be all the nations, and he shall separate them from one another, as the shepherd doth separate the sheep from the goats,

33 and he shall set the sheep indeed on his right hand, and the goats on the left.

34 `Then shall the king say to those on his right hand, Come ye, the blessed of my Father, inherit the reign that hath been prepared for you from the foundation of the world;

35 for I did hunger, and ye gave me to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and ye received me;

36 naked, and ye put around me; I was infirm, and ye looked after me; in prison I was, and ye came unto me.

37 `Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, and we nourished? or thirsting, and we gave to drink?

38 and when did we see thee a stranger, and we received? or naked, and we put around?

39 and when did we see thee infirm, or in prison, and we came unto thee?

40 `And the king answering, shall say to them, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] to one of these my brethren -- the least -- to me ye did [it].

41 Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;

42 for I did hunger, and ye gave me not to eat; I did thirst, and ye gave me not to drink;

43 a stranger I was, and ye did not receive me; naked, and ye put not around me; infirm, and in prison, and ye did not look after me.

44 `Then shall they answer, they also, saying, Lord, when did we see thee hungering, or thirsting, or a stranger, or naked, or infirm, or in prison, and we did not minister to thee?

45 `Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say to you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of these, the least, ye did [it] not to me.

46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

 

[Tidal]

Just worry about me and take care of myself? Yeah that's a Christ like attitude! LOL!

Jesus washed his hands of losers-
"If any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them" (Mark 6:11)

and told us to do the same rather than waste any more time on them, they chose their own road..-