Coronavirus

Karlysymon

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So now, with the NHS on its knees, we are struggling with covid 19. Tories privatised the Royal Mail Service, the trains, pretty much everything. They closed down mines and factories in the north so many of those people rely on benefits to top up their income. It is no secret that Boris and his friends want to, especially after Brexit, sell off the NHS and make deals with The US and The Arabs.

The new Nightingale clinic hospital in East London was funded by The UAE, this is only the beginning.

So I don't think it would be crazy to assume that privatisation is the real reason behind them dragging their feet. They benefit so much and given the financial crisis that is coming, foreign fingers and pockets is what this blonde shit face needs to look even remotely competent to the twats that voted him in.
I posted this pages back, i don't know if you saw it.

Remember the leaked document, last year, about US bigpharma/health looking to get their hands on the NHS?

US health firms believe the NHS will be easier to crack after Brexit, according to a leaked document which reveals pressure by the Trump administration to open up Britain's free healthcare system

[/QUOTE]
It’s interesting how the same crises can produce different positions depending on where you are in the world. Because in the US it’s causing the opposite. Cost of private health insurance is expected to soar atleast 40% higher next year because insurance companies have taken such a “financial hit”

And the massive amounts of layoffs are exposing bare how absurd it is to have health insurance tied to a persons job.
True. So its safe to assume that this is going to skyrocket "medical tourism/migration", either north or south. Serveto was talking about it here, weeks ago. Aswell as push people in alternative medicine that for some, may not have been a first option in "perfect" conditions.
I'm thinking that you are trying to lead me somewhere along the lines of saying that this is not a real crisis if it can be said that a government is trying to use some aspect of this to their benefit.
Nope. You misread me.
 
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on March 14.
Published: March 14, 2020; Updated: April 18, 2020

“Over the last week we’ve seen an interesting phenomenon where people who’ve been initially diagnosed a week ago, they’re coming back to the hospital sicker and often requiring a ventilator or the ICU,” Santiago told WBZ. “That just demonstrates how insidious the virus can be.”
how many people in all cases? more news would be if it was a common phenomenon.

Wuhan locked down on 24 January.

April 2

New evidence has emerged from China indicating that the large majority of coronavirus infections do not result in symptoms.

A total of 130 of 166 new infections (78%) identified in the 24 hours to the afternoon of Wednesday 1 April were asymptomatic, said China’s National Health Commission. And most of the 36 cases in which patients showed symptoms involved arrivals from overseas, down from 48 the previous day, the commission said.

“The sample is small, and more data will become available. Also, it’s not clear exactly how these cases were identified. But let’s just say they are generalisable. And even if they are 10% out, then this suggests the virus is everywhere. If—and I stress, if—the results are representative, then we have to ask, ‘What the hell are we locking down for?’”


---

Bribed to call it COVID

We have record of physicians and hospitals being paid to mis-code their diagnostic and billing numbers to indicate “COVID-19” instead of plain pneumonia because hospitals are reimbursed $39,000 instead of just $13,000 for COVID-19! There is a financial incentive to list COVID-19 on death certificates. Normally Medicare or the AMA would issue billing code information. This directive comes from the CDC. The federal government, namely the CDC, is bribing doctors and hospitals to mis-code Medicare billing and then using that fake data to lockdown the citizenry.

War of the Worlds 2020

Were Americans completely hoodwinked by the frightful but inaccurate mortality figures for COVID-19 in the US and drawn by fear to cooperate with a lockdown of the economy?

Let’s conduct an autopsy on the data used to lockdown Americans in their homes to see if it is any more reliable than what Orson Welles broadcast in 1938.

Italy has a mortality rate among those hospitalized for respiratory failure ~9%, whereas Germany’s fatality rate is just 0.3%. The US fatality rate is ~3.5%. What gives? Why such a disparity in the numbers?

Italy, a hotspot for COVID-19 coronavirus deaths, later re-evaluated the cause of death of patients who died of respiratory failure. In the re-evaluation only 12% of death certificates showed a direct causality from coronavirus while 88% of patient deaths were attributed to co-morbidity (accompanying disease, such as diabetes, heart disease). (According to the CDC 83.3% of of Americans with laboratory confirmed COVID-19 coronavirus infections have underlying medical conditions.).

Many patients who succumbed to respiratory failure had two or three co-morbidities says a report in The Telegraph. So, 8 in 10 of the reported deaths are NOT coronavirus-caused. Hope you got that. (Orson Welles III)

Case fatality rate or individual mortality risk?

There are a lot of scary numbers being distributed, infections, deaths, etc. What we actually need the number infected out of the total population (326 million), the infection rate and death rate. Otherwise, you might as well say the Martians caused the deaths.

As of Easter Sunday April 12, 2020, 20,601 American souls are reported to have died of Covid-19 coronavirus in the U.S. this flu season and 533,378 were confirmed by blood test to have been infected, or out of 326 million Americans the risk for infection is 0.0016 or almost 2 in 1000 and the risk for death is 0.00006% or 6 in 100,000. Remember, I’m using mortality numbers that are 80% fluff. If 80% of COVID-19 deaths are bogus, then only ~4000 have died, and maybe not from COVID-19.

However, out of 20,601 reported deaths, 8,627 are from New York State where immigrants comprise a great deal of cases and were more likely to have tuberculosis than coronavirus and where Orson Welles II resides.

Of course, these numbers are specious because the US has used a flawed test to detect coronavirus-related disease and the 533,378 figure is actually much higher and the death rate much, much lower. When does government ever issue real numbers about anything? The American Lung Association reveals the CDC’s 36,000 Americans die of the flu each year is a misrepresentation. In some years flu-related deaths have only amounted to a few hundred people.

Great Britain used an antibody test and estimated 68% of its citizenry may have been infected. That is a very high infection rate. A phlebotomist working at Roseland Community Hospital, a suburb of Chicago, reveals 30-50% of patients tested had coronavirus antibodies and only 10-20% had active virus. This type of data is not welcome at the CDC that is planning on universal vaccination. But the vast majority of Americans may have already developed immunity.

A report dated March 31 in The Atlantic estimates over 1 million Americans tested for COVID-19. So, if a half-million COVID-19 cases have been laboratory confirmed (533,378), then we have an infection rate of around 50%. So COVID-19 coronavirus is very infectious but not very lethal. When the vaccine is available, a lot of Americans won’t need it. Authorities are not telling you that.

At the present time, a trio of dishonest and deceitful virologists who advise the President have taken over the world. Wear a (useless) mask. Stay six-feet away. Stay indoors, at home. Be a good American. But what if it’s all a misdirection, Orson Wells redux?
 

illuminatimess

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So basically people with only public insurance in Germany do not get top quality healthcare but the rich do?
That’s correct.

I see many similarities to the US system in that statement. Medical options are severely limited for people who get Medicaid (our only public option and only for the poorest) in many parts of the country (there are some exceptions).
I wouldn’t agree with that statement. Here the companies pay for your surgeries etc. The only issue is that the private customers get extras, like multiple dental cleaning, whereas public insurance pays only for one.

I heard about that. I have a friend from Atlanta and he told me he was weighing up whether to go to the doctor‘s or not. Then I told him he should go and he was like, it would be very expensive to visit a doctor. That was quite shocking.


Screwed up all the way around. I will say atleast all your citizens are guaranteed some level of medical care which is an improvement over our system where tons of people make too much to get Medicaid but not enough to afford private insurance.
Sadly, that’s reality in USA. I’m sorry for all the people who can’t afford it without being in astronomic debt.
 

rainerann

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Mar 18, 2017
Messages
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Published: March 14, 2020; Updated: April 18, 2020



how many people in all cases? more news would be if it was a common phenomenon.

Wuhan locked down on 24 January.

April 2





---

Bribed to call it COVID

We have record of physicians and hospitals being paid to mis-code their diagnostic and billing numbers to indicate “COVID-19” instead of plain pneumonia because hospitals are reimbursed $39,000 instead of just $13,000 for COVID-19! There is a financial incentive to list COVID-19 on death certificates. Normally Medicare or the AMA would issue billing code information. This directive comes from the CDC. The federal government, namely the CDC, is bribing doctors and hospitals to mis-code Medicare billing and then using that fake data to lockdown the citizenry.

War of the Worlds 2020

Were Americans completely hoodwinked by the frightful but inaccurate mortality figures for COVID-19 in the US and drawn by fear to cooperate with a lockdown of the economy?

Let’s conduct an autopsy on the data used to lockdown Americans in their homes to see if it is any more reliable than what Orson Welles broadcast in 1938.

Italy has a mortality rate among those hospitalized for respiratory failure ~9%, whereas Germany’s fatality rate is just 0.3%. The US fatality rate is ~3.5%. What gives? Why such a disparity in the numbers?

Italy, a hotspot for COVID-19 coronavirus deaths, later re-evaluated the cause of death of patients who died of respiratory failure. In the re-evaluation only 12% of death certificates showed a direct causality from coronavirus while 88% of patient deaths were attributed to co-morbidity (accompanying disease, such as diabetes, heart disease). (According to the CDC 83.3% of of Americans with laboratory confirmed COVID-19 coronavirus infections have underlying medical conditions.).

Many patients who succumbed to respiratory failure had two or three co-morbidities says a report in The Telegraph. So, 8 in 10 of the reported deaths are NOT coronavirus-caused. Hope you got that. (Orson Welles III)

Case fatality rate or individual mortality risk?

There are a lot of scary numbers being distributed, infections, deaths, etc. What we actually need the number infected out of the total population (326 million), the infection rate and death rate. Otherwise, you might as well say the Martians caused the deaths.

As of Easter Sunday April 12, 2020, 20,601 American souls are reported to have died of Covid-19 coronavirus in the U.S. this flu season and 533,378 were confirmed by blood test to have been infected, or out of 326 million Americans the risk for infection is 0.0016 or almost 2 in 1000 and the risk for death is 0.00006% or 6 in 100,000. Remember, I’m using mortality numbers that are 80% fluff. If 80% of COVID-19 deaths are bogus, then only ~4000 have died, and maybe not from COVID-19.

However, out of 20,601 reported deaths, 8,627 are from New York State where immigrants comprise a great deal of cases and were more likely to have tuberculosis than coronavirus and where Orson Welles II resides.

Of course, these numbers are specious because the US has used a flawed test to detect coronavirus-related disease and the 533,378 figure is actually much higher and the death rate much, much lower. When does government ever issue real numbers about anything? The American Lung Association reveals the CDC’s 36,000 Americans die of the flu each year is a misrepresentation. In some years flu-related deaths have only amounted to a few hundred people.

Great Britain used an antibody test and estimated 68% of its citizenry may have been infected. That is a very high infection rate. A phlebotomist working at Roseland Community Hospital, a suburb of Chicago, reveals 30-50% of patients tested had coronavirus antibodies and only 10-20% had active virus. This type of data is not welcome at the CDC that is planning on universal vaccination. But the vast majority of Americans may have already developed immunity.

A report dated March 31 in The Atlantic estimates over 1 million Americans tested for COVID-19. So, if a half-million COVID-19 cases have been laboratory confirmed (533,378), then we have an infection rate of around 50%. So COVID-19 coronavirus is very infectious but not very lethal. When the vaccine is available, a lot of Americans won’t need it. Authorities are not telling you that.

At the present time, a trio of dishonest and deceitful virologists who advise the President have taken over the world. Wear a (useless) mask. Stay six-feet away. Stay indoors, at home. Be a good American. But what if it’s all a misdirection, Orson Wells redux?
So I’m not shocked to learn that the report about Medicare reimbursement seems to be repeated from Fox News as the original source.



So much for the argument that you shouldn’t turn to msm for coronavirus information made by so many in this thread.

again, 13,000 for a standard hospital visit is pennies when you consider that the er visit alone is over 2000 dollars on average.

the doctor in the hospital will make a fraction of this and this will in no way make up for the massive amount of money that is being lost right now because not every department in the hospital is considered essential.

outpatient surgery centers are not always essential and when a hospital is left with the bill for continuing to pay and provide benefits for hundreds of employees who are on an indefinite leave of absence, 39,000 dollars in not even an incentive to continue on with the pandemic for the sake of gaining this amount as reimbursement anymore.

there are thousands of nonessential part time and full time employees in the hospital system that are also on a leave of absence and costing money everyday. Hospitals want this to end just as much as small business owners do.

“When the vaccine is available, a lot of Americans won’t need it. Authorities are not telling you that.”

techinally, the WHO organization is saying that antibodies are not a guarantee of immunity. Articles where this is mentioned are already discussing the reality that a vaccine might not be the end of this because we don’t know how long immunity lasts or whether the presence of antibodies indicates immunity.

There was an article I was reading and I can’t remember which one, but it was saying that when the sars outbreak was contained. They predicted that people had immunity for up to three years, but there was no way to know for sure because it would be unethical to expose people to sars to check if they were still immune.

therefore, claims that the presence of antibodies indicate that this virus does not pose a threat can’t be proven still. That is the main problem. in reality anyone trying to say that there is reason to form conclusions right now is presumptuous.

In addition to this, Fox News has also blasted about the mutation that was found in India and how it could disrupt the efforts to find a vaccine.

so a vaccine is not a matter of want or need at the moment. It is a matter of is it even possible and will it even be able to bring about immunity and “authorities” are saying all these things.

For me, the most interesting part of this report on the mutation is how it has the potential to fulfill what luc Montagnier said

“In any case, this thesis, defended by Professor Luc Montagnier, has a positive turn. According to him, the altered elements of this virus are eliminated as it spreads: “Nature does not accept any molecular tinkering, it will eliminate these unnatural changes and even if nothing is done, things will get better, but unfortunately after many deaths.”

Because the news report seems to be suggesting that this mutation changes the virus in a way that it is not able to infect humans. Possibly eliminating molecular tinkering.

“The scientists claim that the change had occurred in part of the spike protein that allows the novel coronavirus to bind with certain human cells.”

This is a superficial understanding of course. But the point is that isolating information the way your article did to paint a picture that only supports persuading the reader in regard to social distancing, is creating a misleading picture. I can’t support embracing isolated information in this way when there is the opportunity for more creative conclusions especially within discussion regarded as conspiracy where it would seem like you should have more freedom to explore.

the focus and criticism for not focusing and remaining isolated in one direction towards this situation is counterproductive.

in general, I think this also shows that every side of this issue is being discussed by msm and it is not valid to use listening to msm as an argument in disagreement on different positions regarding coronavirus.


 

Karlysymon

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1587324833200.png
If your country is gripped by a child porn epidemic, then all i can say is...hold onto your kids. Because many desperate people will end up doing the unthinkable.
Okay, so the virus collapses the immune system. I wonder, is a vaccine ever efficient against this kind of thing(immuno deficiency) and if it keeps mutating, how many shots are we supposed to get?
 
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Apparently, the concept has been around for centuries but the term has lay buried in agency documents for years, such as this one from WHO until now. Ofcourse its dubbed "the latest buzz word" but its entered the public's lexicon for a reason. As the next document will show. If you tell someone that they'll be in quarantine for 2-3yrs, they'd find that so outrageous and insane but when you replace that with "social distancing" for 2-3yrs, it doesn't sound so outrageous anymore.
Without cure, social distancing may be here to stay till 2022

A Harvard Study Says Social Distancing May Last Until 2022. It’s Not as Grim as It Sounds.



I stumbled upon this interesting 200 pg document that deals with all the legal aspects of a flu pandemic, whether that be mandatory vaccination (personal rights over public health) or litigation over quarantine as stifling personal freedoms. I failed to take screen shots, so i'll just copy and paste.
Law, Federalism, the Constitution,
and Control of Pandemic Flu
Ernest B. Abbott*

I. INTRODUCTION...............................................................................186
A. Government Legal Authority to Protect the Public Health in
Emergencies ...........................................................................188
1. Crisis Phase .....................................................................188
2. Pre-Disaster Phase ...........................................................189
3. Post-Disaster Phase..........................................................190
B. Constitutional Underpinning of Emergency Response.............191
C. Emergency Management Simplified ........................................191
1. Who is In Charge? – Federalism and Coordination of
Multiple Responding Organizations .................................192
2. Public Health Emergency Powers ....................................195
3. Quarantine and Isolation: Definitions...............................195
4. Purpose of Quarantine: Increasing “Social Distance” .......196

D. Balancing Collective and Individual Rights: Jacobson v.
Massachusetts.........................................................................197
1. Procedural Due Process ...................................................198
2. A Digression: Procedural Due Process and the
Challenge of Mass Incidents ............................................199
3. Substantive Due Process ..................................................200
4. A Second Digression: Substantive Due Process, Fear
and Prejudice ...................................................................200
5. Substantive Due Process and Social Distancing
Measures .........................................................................201
E. Lessons from Canada: SARS Quarantine Enforcement ...........203
II. SPECIAL CHALLENGE OF PANDEMIC ................................................204
A. Accessing Emergency Personnel: Mutual Aid .........................204
B. Interstate Mutual Aid: EMAC.................................................205
C. Accessing Emergency Personnel: Volunteers ..........................206
D. Planning for Volunteers..........................................................206
E. Liability concerns and immunity: World Trade Center
* Ernest B. Abbott is Principal of Federal Emergency Management Agency
("FEMA") Law Associates, PLLC, specializing in legal and regulatory issues raised by
major disasters and emergencies. Mr. Abbott is co-editor of E. Abbott and O. Hetzel, A
LEGAL GUIDE TO HOMELAND SECURITY AND EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT FOR STATE AND
LOCAL GOVERNMENT (ABA Press 2005). More detailed biographical information is
available at www.fema-law.com. Some of the research supporting this paper was funded
by the Centers for Disease Control’s Public Health Law Program under contracts to
develop its Public Health Emergency Law training course.

On "federal gov't encroaching on the states", i thought this was interesting:

One of President George W. Bush’s initiatives after the 9/11
terrorist attacks sought to achieve this goal. Homeland Security
Presidential Directives (“HSPD”) Numbers 5 and 8 required the
Department of Homeland Security (“DHS”) to create a National Incident
Management System, or “NIMS,” that would apply to all types of events.
16 It then required federal agencies to comply with NIMS, and urged state
and local governments to follow or run the risk of losing federal funds. At
the outset, NIMS was created by executive fiat and, frankly, did not work
very well during Hurricane Katrina.17 Implementation was still in its
infancy and many federal, state and local decision makers did not even
know what it was. Surprisingly, NIMS' failure during Hurricane Katrina
did not lead to its downfall, but rather to renewed calls for NIMS training
and to legislation codifying key elements of NIMS into the Homeland
Security Act.18 For example, the Act now requires that the FEMA
Administrator enter into a Memorandum of Understanding with State,
local and tribal governments and “organizations that represent emergency
first responders, [which now includes the private sector to] [c]ollaborate
on developing standards for deployment capabilities, including
credentialing of personnel and typing of resources likely needed to
respond to natural disasters, acts of terrorism, and other man-made
disasters.”19 Thus, given the complex emergency operating environment,
the President issued executive orders to create an effective management
system for emergencies. In order to make that management system work,
Congress and the President enacted laws and required negotiation and
execution of agreements.
Great research! Thank you for all of this information - gonna take a while to really comb through this! :)
 
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Do you guys feel like the "flooding" technique is being employed around this thing or what? I mean there is SO MUCH information coming at us everyday, from all sorts of sites, and contradicting each other ALL the time - it's like it's literally impossible to parse out the truth!!??
Flooding if you don't know (which I'm sure almost all of us do!) is when they "flood" media and internet with so much garbage and "data" etc., you can't tell fact from fiction.
 

Cintra

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Do you guys feel like the "flooding" technique is being employed around this thing or what? I mean there is SO MUCH information coming at us everyday, from all sorts of sites, and contradicting each other ALL the time - it's like it's literally impossible to parse out the truth!!??
Flooding if you don't know (which I'm sure almost all of us do!) is when they "flood" media and internet with so much garbage and "data" etc., you can't tell fact from fiction.
Yes! and it is all there is!
It's like nothing else is happening at all.
 
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So I’m not shocked to learn that the report about Medicare reimbursement seems to be repeated from Fox News as the original source.
fox news is not my ultimate source. just a matter of money (13-39).

techinally, the WHO organization is saying that antibodies are not a guarantee of immunity. Articles where this is mentioned are already discussing the reality that a vaccine might not be the end of this because we don’t know how long immunity lasts or whether the presence of antibodies indicates immunity.
WHO is also not a reliable source. like all scientific authorities. they contradicted many times. pandemic, mortality etc.
Bill Gates, who is the financer of the organization, is responsible for many murders in third world countries. India, polio vaccine.

Suppose it is true. So, the "slow down spread" strategy is useless. Why are we locked down if no one is going to be healed and "safe citizen"?
 
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I'm really seeing a few people who are looking at this whole thing with nuance, but rather people jumping towards either extreme.

Its either believe the MSM, and that this is "the end of the world" or "its all a fabrication, and a big scam'

YOu know what it is possible that there is an element of truth to both ends of the dialectic. That is how I personally see it, but either side wants you to take up an extreme.

I wonder if governments of the entire world are united in pushing this "Corona fraud" ? Yes it is a possibility, but frankly I dont see it.

I dont see governments like Iran, with all of their economic sanctions and hardships, and the external zionist threats they face, just shutting down their economies, increasing the likelihood of a collapse because of "the flu" Sorry but I dont see it and I dont buy it.

So China and Iran were the first 2 countries to push this scam that in reality, as some are saying, Is a whole bunch of hysteria over nothing.

I dont believe that. I believe there is something going around infecting and killing people, that IS deadlier and much more infectious than the flu.

At the same time, this doesn't mean that CERTAIN countries aren't manipulating numbers for various reasons, and aren't overreacting in certain areas.

Both ideas can be true at the same time.

The countries around the world are using different means to tally up statistics.

I'm not even certain that different countries/regions are not experiencing different viruses or strains of the virus.

I'm pretty sure something is going on, I'm pretty sure we aren't being told the truth of what is going on. There are lies and manipulations, and agendas, but please lets not just dismiss that there is something killing people at a higher rate than usual, when we have people on this forum who know people who have died.

How often do we know this many people who have died of the flu every year.

I do think there are agendas to destroy the economies, and bring in a totalitarian control grid, as well as mandatory vaccines, yet that doesn't mean that there isn't a real virus out there that can pose a serious risk to the population, and that measures should not necessarily be taken.
 

rainerann

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fox news is not my ultimate source. just a matter of money (13-39).



WHO is also not a reliable source. like all scientific authorities. they contradicted many times. pandemic, mortality etc.
Bill Gates, who is the financer of the organization, is responsible for many murders in third world countries. India, polio vaccine.

Suppose it is true. So, the "slow down spread" strategy is useless. Why are we locked down if no one is going to be healed and "safe citizen"?
you simply said the authorities weren’t saying anything about a vaccine not being necessary. I was pointing out they did say something to this effect. Now you say the authorities aren’t reliable no matter what they say. Basically, you have moved the goalposts.

Fox News is the source for the statement about Medicare compensation, so they may not be your ultimate source, but you are using them when it is convenient to make an argument that is intended to persuade an audience about the subject of social distancing rather than anything else.

the slow down to slow the spread message isn’t useless if you look at the numbers, and it is beneficial to studying this situation from a medical perspective. If you were to assume that the antibodies produce immunity and you end up being wrong, what are the potential repercussions of this?

If you can’t really say anything with any certainty about the long term effects of this virus other than that you don’t like the idea of social distancing for whatever reason, then there is nothing wrong with trying to slow the spread with social distancing. You have just not presented a strong enough argument from a medical perspective that it is not a useful or necessary measure.
 

justjess

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My main concern at this point is that we have been locked down well past the incubation period and while numbers are slowing they are still continuing to go up and are not limited to just “essential workers” (and their immediate families) by now.

Also - as someone said above, my belief that there is a real virus that is really killing a lot of people does not mean I don’t see how governments are manipulating this to achieve their own goals or that I don’t think there is any foul play at foot.
 
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Aero

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Messages
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The COVID-19 numbers are still going up because we went with the ass-backward approach. Basically, by issuing stay at home orders before having a proper testing apparatus in place, we have no way of knowing if said stay at home orders are working.

It's like the blind leading the blind right now. So I think we should try to control our own destiny and stop listening to clueless leaders. Any way you slice it, the ball was dropped here.
 

UnderAlienControl

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Last edited:
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Ugh see - so much information coming from everywhere.

On the one hand you can see a leveling off or drop in cases - look at Worldometer and the logarithmic scale - definitely leveling off happening in Western countries now - death rate naturally follows by a week.

If you could get 80% exposed you'd have "herd immunity" which that German epidemiologist says takes 4 weeks. So from his perspective, we're dragging this out and making it worst. He said essentially elderly and infirm should have self-quarantined for 4 weeks, we should have spread it more openly, and we'd be over this by now. Seems logical *if* this is "just another corona virus" like he postulates.

If it was - then, why the freak-out in China and Iran? Perhaps because they knew it was "novel" and feared another SARS-COV situation - where the first SARS was novel at the time, more lethal, and China got in a lot of hot water for not acting appropriately - so perhaps China was trying to prevent another SARS 2.0 situation and they went - potentially- overboard.

German epi. says results in China are not from Quarantine but rather, herd-immunity was mostly attained as they acted way past Lunar New Year and it had already spread like crazy - in my mind that's a likely scenario.

On the other hand - we have rumors this thing is some chimeric virus, with elements of SARS, MERS, and HIV. I don't know if this is true or BS or what. You'd think that any scientist who's legit could tell if this has elements of other viruses - you would be able to see that under an electron microscope - but who's analyzing the actual virus? I don't know.

Where I live (site of the first biggest outbreak in the US) you have it spreading like crazy - despite the quarantine. But I just went out for a drive - literally first time in 6 weeks - and saw folks in equal numbers out and about with and without masks. I saw tons of people at parks, cycling, etc.
 

rainerann

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They plan to vaccinate 7 billion people. For a useless vaccine? (to them)
Compulsory. He said before.
"It won't work" but they will do it to everyone.

there is no contradiction.

if we're never going to heal, we're gonna get infected again and again (conjecture), why should we stay locked for years and destroy the economy? Let the old and sick people all die now, not later. :D Will they not be infected again?
But if we are immune, the vaccine is unnecessary.


Mortality.

+Sweden and Belarus
Practically every country in the world is working towards the development of a vaccine. There are hundreds of potential candidates and numerous companies are already claiming that they will be ready to start trying them out on people soon. The argument that Bill Gates is the automatic leader is false. Unfortunately, he does have some control over who is getting a vaccine in places where they don't have access to these things and there is no competition for him. That is not the case in the US or the UK or a number of other countries.

Maybe you missed the part where I quoted this article in an earlier post and made a connection with the article about the mutation.


I think there is reason to believe that this virus shares certain traits with HIV and it is a pretty good reason to want to be able to slow the spread down so that there will be a good understanding of how this is affecting the body now and in the long term or to stay "locked up" as you put it.

What a very callous thing to say about the sick and dying too. I can only imagine that you are not being serious, but I don't really know how else to approach that statement other than at face value.

If the "authorities" are saying there is no way to know whether there is long term immunity, there is really no reason to assume that a vaccine will be given if we have developed immunity considering that they are currently scaling an antibody test project throughout the country that will be used to get more information about what the presence of antibodies means in terms of immunity.

You're linking your post where you cite the Medicare reimbursement amount from Fox news and the claim that the authorities are not telling people that the vaccine might not be necessary if we develop immunity. To which I responded that they are saying this. To which you responded by saying that it didn't matter what the authorities said even though you already said they were at fault for not telling people that a vaccine might not be needed as though this were something important for them to say.

You are circling.

"COVID-19 has now killed more people than influenza did during the 2018-2019 flu season in the United States.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimates that 34,200 people died last year during flu season. According to numbers tabulated by Worldometer, 39,651 people have died of the coronavirus at this article's time of writing.

The rate of death for people with COVID-19 compared to the flu is also stark. According to the CDC, 35.5 million people likely got the flu last year. That is a death rate of only .1%.

Coronavirus has infected, at least, 742,459 people in the United States. That means it has a death rate of over 5%, which is more than 50 times the flu if its current death rate holds."

Now, before you go posting the Stanford study saying that everyone basically has this, I am already aware of these studies. What I am pointing out with this article is that we have now reached about 40,000 deaths in the US. The thing to notice about this is that we have only been collecting this number for about a month. You could say this should be added in with the influenza deaths or split between pneumonia and influenza and this would still make the influenza deaths about to pass the high for the last 10 years which was about 60,000 according to the article.

You would also have to consider that flu season is usually over already around this time of year, so any deaths accumulating from here on would also mean that we are experiencing an unusually long flu season. All of which could be fine and dandy, unless we start looking at around 100,000 deaths by June even if you were to count these as primarily influenza-related deaths in order to support your theory that social distancing isn't necessary.

This would put us well over 60,000 deaths due to influenza for the year when you consider that they have been tracking flu since around November of last year. It would be a record-breaking year for flu even if we tried to distribute this with a couple of conditions, and you could almost say that it would justify the same response for the flu season alone if we were to entirely pretend that the coronavirus doesn't even exist as a real threat if that is what you would prefer to do. So there are a few reasons that social distancing starts to make sense before you even start looking at the fact that the virus has only been under a microscope for a couple of months and there isn't one doctor or scientist that has an entirely clear picture of how it affects the body in the short and long term.

It makes sense to try to create an opportunity for people besides Bill Gates to have the opportunity to wrap their minds around what this virus is capable of. Unless you would prefer all of the worlds doctors to be consumed with a larger population of positive cases so that Bill Gates ends up being the only one with free time on his hands to dream up how he wants to create the perfect vaccine that will turn us all into robots? Is that what you really want? For all of our doctors to be reaching out to Bill Gates for help because they are too busy?

Every single one of your arguments supports the basic premise that this virus is very contagious otherwise there wouldn't be so many people running around with antibodies present. It is in everyone's best interest, that regular doctor working first hand with patients who are positive with this virus, are given the opportunity to observe and contribute to our developing understanding of this condition. They can't do that if half the population in their city is positive and needing help managing symptoms.

As a result, I will repeat what I already said, which is that you are not making a good case for your position towards social distancing from a medical perspective. If you feel it necessary to respond with a link to what you have already said, I think it will be safe to say we can conclude our conversation at this point.

 

Maes17

Superstar
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
6,521
Lol, insurance companies here fund sports etc and claim they didn’t have money to provide basic drugs. Additionally, several years ago, they introduced a new model of insurance, called „Privatversicherung“ which means people who are wealthy are able to afford better and quicker medical aid in all forms
Here in the US a lot of celebs and athletes were getting tested right away as well. I’m sure being an athlete or celeb they have better medical coverage
 

morita

Veteran
Joined
Aug 19, 2018
Messages
815
The COVID-19 numbers are still going up because we went with the ass-backward approach. Basically, by issuing stay at home orders before having a proper testing apparatus in place, we have no way of knowing if said stay at home orders are working.

It's like the blind leading the blind right now. So I think we should try to control our own destiny and stop listening to clueless leaders. Any way you slice it, the ball was dropped here.
People were literally asking for the lockdown.
 
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