Coronavirus

rainerann

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Mar 18, 2017
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I still don’t think herd immunity is possible. Apparently, it is not likely in the case of rna viruses even without tampering.

The data summarized and discussed above illustrate that innate immune evasion is a major function of respiratory and other RNA viruses (Fig. (Fig.1),1), which probably takes a significant volume of the genetic capacity of these viruses. This also implies that, given the restricted genetic space available to these viruses, the evasive functions must be pivotal for viruses to survive, otherwise they would likely not have evolved. Since each virus employs multiple different activities to suppress immune responses, and often evolved multifunctional proteins to do so, it remains difficult to acquire a complete picture of the immune evasive arsenal of a virus and how this is balanced with symptoms and disease outcome in different cell types or situations...

An important question is how exactly the viral innate immune evasive functions of respiratory viruses influence disease outcome and ultimate immune responses. It is noticeable that many of the viruses discussed here do not elicit a long-lasting immune protection after infection, and indeed rhino, corona, and RSV can re-infect individuals sometime after earlier infection, again causing symptoms (reviewed in [178, 179]), which is in sharp contrast to several other childhood-associated viral infections, where lifelong protection is achieved after generally experiencing only one episode of disease. It may well be that, besides their strong genetic variation, the innate immune evasive activities of the mentioned respiratory viruses play a role in this lack of eliciting protective immunity [180], and to possibly improve our options for effective antiviral strategies, it seems pivotal to further investigate this.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
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I still don’t think herd immunity is possible. Apparently, it is not likely in the case of rna viruses even without tampering.




Very interesting - yeah these damn viruses are super sneaky. Per this article it seems at least in SARS-COV antibodies last ~3 years...
 

UnderAlienControl

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Russia’s Health Ministry approves using Chinese drug against coronavirus
 
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rainerann

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CDC’s Worst-Case Coronavirus Model: 214 Million Infected, 1.7 Million Dead
"A recent CDC projection estimated that the U.S. coronavirus epidemic could infect between 160 million and 214 million people over a period of more than a year — and kill anywhere from 200,000 to 1.7 million people in the country. A top CDC disease modeler presented the estimates to CDC officials and epidemic experts during a conference call last month, the New York Times revealed on Friday. The scenario did not factor in the efforts now underway to address the epidemic, but rather what could happen if no action was taken to slow the spread of the disease."

Outside of issues that I have with healthcare centering mainly around the lack of investigation towards cheaper and more organic materials, there is nothing wrong with this projected range. It is a lot more reasonable to assume a range between these two numbers, than to assume a position on either extreme which would be doomsday or denial of something that could be serious.

I think it is a reasonable assumption that without isolation measures, we would easily be getting close to 200,000. The trauma from reality like this within our community and healthcare system would result in the potential for increasing error. If we consider the experience of post traumatic stress and try to visualize a world where we are about to reach 200,000 deaths across the country initiating changes to our lifestyle as a way of preventing reaching 500,000, the psychological experience has also been minimized with a shelter in place even when you consider the experience of loneliness or financial loss.

Loneliness is nothing when people are still not facing a reality that gives them a reason to believe that it is possible that things will get worse or that many more people will continue to die. As it is, we are so far from reaching the point where the number of deaths could produce a traumatizing community response that people are going out and complaining about having to stay home in groups.

Also, when you are pointing out that the CDC said that the worst case scenario is 1.7 million even if you are admitting that this their worst case scenario and not their prediction, you are still creating a misleading message that is no different than the approach of mainstream media that everyone complains about. That is exactly what they do. Instead of presenting both sides, they present the information available to tilt the perspective towards the one they want you to have rather than showing you all the information available.


Still, as I have said before, while this helps in terms of capacity. This has the potential to bankrupt hospitals in the long run that have shut down many services they provide that actually make money. After doing some thinking about this, I don't know that I think it would be a bad thing for our healthcare system to get smaller. I don't know that it would be terrible for our system to adjust to making less money. What if that could result in cheaper healthcare? That is outside of the fact that it is fantastic to see them working on certain treatments because of the pressure this situation is created? There are really so many good things that could come out of this, I struggle to find the reason why people around a place like this would be complaining so much.

Outside of this, there is still the very real issue with supply shortages even with reduced numbers like this. I have seen articles listing hospitals that are saying they will take handmade isolation gowns. I don't know if you can understand what a statement like this means in the United States where everything that can be used has to be up to a certain code or standard. People are sewing isolation gowns in their own homes and giving them to hospitals. It is an absolutely absurd thing for me to think of saying, but that is what they are doing.

So there are clearly many things that need to be fixed within our system considering the fact that we are unable to accommodate the low side of these estimates to the same standard that we have been using for every other isolation status for a long as I have been working in healthcare.
 

Helioform

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Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
3,195
Oh shi.....what I miss? o_O

Lol
Not much, just the same MSM crap being repeated over and over by people who do not have a clue what is really going on.

I mean there was Microsoft who recently literally patented a mark of the beast system with the number 666 in the patent number and nobody seem to give a shit about it except hardcore christians who seem to know more than others about this. It's in people faces now and even on this forum there is a bunch of people asleep.
 

Maes17

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Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
6,521
Not much, just the same MSM crap being repeated over and over by people who do not have a clue what is really going on.

I mean there was Microsoft who recently literally patented a mark of the beast system with the number 666 in the patent number and nobody seem to give a shit about it except hardcore christians who seem to know more than others about this. It's in people faces now and even on this forum there is a bunch of people asleep.
I saw that microsoft article. Bill Gates is the devil.
Woke people will always be labeled as conspiracy theorist. Hard to reach out in that matter.

There’s been so many stories since quarantine I don’t even keep up or believe them anymore. Just stay safe and healthy out there
 

DavidSon

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Jan 10, 2019
Messages
2,159
"A recent CDC projection estimated that the U.S. coronavirus epidemic could infect between 160 million and 214 million people over a period of more than a year — and kill anywhere from 200,000 to 1.7 million people in the country. A top CDC disease modeler presented the estimates to CDC officials and epidemic experts during a conference call last month, the New York Times revealed on Friday. The scenario did not factor in the efforts now underway to address the epidemic, but rather what could happen if no action was taken to slow the spread of the disease."

Outside of issues that I have with healthcare centering mainly around the lack of investigation towards cheaper and more organic materials, there is nothing wrong with this projected range. It is a lot more reasonable to assume a range between these two numbers, than to assume a position on either extreme which would be doomsday or denial of something that could be serious.

I think it is a reasonable assumption that without isolation measures, we would easily be getting close to 200,000. The trauma from reality like this within our community and healthcare system would result in the potential for increasing error. If we consider the experience of post traumatic stress and try to visualize a world where we are about to reach 200,000 deaths across the country initiating changes to our lifestyle as a way of preventing reaching 500,000, the psychological experience has also been minimized with a shelter in place even when you consider the experience of loneliness or financial loss.

Loneliness is nothing when people are still not facing a reality that gives them a reason to believe that it is possible that things will get worse or that many more people will continue to die. As it is, we are so far from reaching the point where the number of deaths could produce a traumatizing community response that people are going out and complaining about having to stay home in groups.

Also, when you are pointing out that the CDC said that the worst case scenario is 1.7 million even if you are admitting that this their worst case scenario and not their prediction, you are still creating a misleading message that is no different than the approach of mainstream media that everyone complains about. That is exactly what they do. Instead of presenting both sides, they present the information available to tilt the perspective towards the one they want you to have rather than showing you all the information available.


Still, as I have said before, while this helps in terms of capacity. This has the potential to bankrupt hospitals in the long run that have shut down many services they provide that actually make money. After doing some thinking about this, I don't know that I think it would be a bad thing for our healthcare system to get smaller. I don't know that it would be terrible for our system to adjust to making less money. What if that could result in cheaper healthcare? That is outside of the fact that it is fantastic to see them working on certain treatments because of the pressure this situation is created? There are really so many good things that could come out of this, I struggle to find the reason why people around a place like this would be complaining so much.

Outside of this, there is still the very real issue with supply shortages even with reduced numbers like this. I have seen articles listing hospitals that are saying they will take handmade isolation gowns. I don't know if you can understand what a statement like this means in the United States where everything that can be used has to be up to a certain code or standard. People are sewing isolation gowns in their own homes and giving them to hospitals. It is an absolutely absurd thing for me to think of saying, but that is what they are doing.

So there are clearly many things that need to be fixed within our system considering the fact that we are unable to accommodate the low side of these estimates to the same standard that we have been using for every other isolation status for a long as I have been working in healthcare.
I thought of replying sentence for sentence that dozens of esteemed, renowned, internationally recognized epidemiologists and statisticians refute what you "think", but at this point there's no reason to. You're one of the most creative posters at this site and I respect your being, but in this case we have to agree to disagree. We're looking at this "pandemic" through totally different lenses. We're not reading the same sources or following the same authors, which is fine.

This is my opinion but we can't control others or make people "see" what we see. That's why it's a gift when we do find those who share our conclusions. We've all made our way to this curious forum, full of varying world-views, and I am content with our differences.

I think you said you weren't into videos as much as reading, but even later if you get the chance I feel Corbett summarizes well what some of us are sensing about the recent tide of events:

 

Wigi

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Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
891
Not much, just the same MSM crap being repeated over and over by people who do not have a clue what is really going on.

I mean there was Microsoft who recently literally patented a mark of the beast system with the number 666 in the patent number and nobody seem to give a shit about it except hardcore christians who seem to know more than others about this. It's in people faces now and even on this forum there is a bunch of people asleep.
You talk about this I presume.


I can't get my hand on MS article or maybe I missed something but my question is why Microsoft embrace christian eschatology..
 
Joined
Mar 15, 2019
Messages
1,851
"A recent CDC projection estimated that the U.S. coronavirus epidemic could infect between 160 million and 214 million people over a period of more than a year — and kill anywhere from 200,000 to 1.7 million people in the country. A top CDC disease modeler presented the estimates to CDC officials and epidemic experts during a conference call last month, the New York Times revealed on Friday. The scenario did not factor in the efforts now underway to address the epidemic, but rather what could happen if no action was taken to slow the spread of the disease."

Outside of issues that I have with healthcare centering mainly around the lack of investigation towards cheaper and more organic materials, there is nothing wrong with this projected range. It is a lot more reasonable to assume a range between these two numbers, than to assume a position on either extreme which would be doomsday or denial of something that could be serious.

I think it is a reasonable assumption that without isolation measures, we would easily be getting close to 200,000. The trauma from reality like this within our community and healthcare system would result in the potential for increasing error. If we consider the experience of post traumatic stress and try to visualize a world where we are about to reach 200,000 deaths across the country initiating changes to our lifestyle as a way of preventing reaching 500,000, the psychological experience has also been minimized with a shelter in place even when you consider the experience of loneliness or financial loss.

Loneliness is nothing when people are still not facing a reality that gives them a reason to believe that it is possible that things will get worse or that many more people will continue to die. As it is, we are so far from reaching the point where the number of deaths could produce a traumatizing community response that people are going out and complaining about having to stay home in groups.

Also, when you are pointing out that the CDC said that the worst case scenario is 1.7 million even if you are admitting that this their worst case scenario and not their prediction, you are still creating a misleading message that is no different than the approach of mainstream media that everyone complains about. That is exactly what they do. Instead of presenting both sides, they present the information available to tilt the perspective towards the one they want you to have rather than showing you all the information available.


Still, as I have said before, while this helps in terms of capacity. This has the potential to bankrupt hospitals in the long run that have shut down many services they provide that actually make money. After doing some thinking about this, I don't know that I think it would be a bad thing for our healthcare system to get smaller. I don't know that it would be terrible for our system to adjust to making less money. What if that could result in cheaper healthcare? That is outside of the fact that it is fantastic to see them working on certain treatments because of the pressure this situation is created? There are really so many good things that could come out of this, I struggle to find the reason why people around a place like this would be complaining so much.

Outside of this, there is still the very real issue with supply shortages even with reduced numbers like this. I have seen articles listing hospitals that are saying they will take handmade isolation gowns. I don't know if you can understand what a statement like this means in the United States where everything that can be used has to be up to a certain code or standard. People are sewing isolation gowns in their own homes and giving them to hospitals. It is an absolutely absurd thing for me to think of saying, but that is what they are doing.

So there are clearly many things that need to be fixed within our system considering the fact that we are unable to accommodate the low side of these estimates to the same standard that we have been using for every other isolation status for a long as I have been working in healthcare.
The difference between "with virus" and "of virus" deaths.

EV6YQi_XkAEFnKw.jpg

You will have a test for anyone who died at any time. You will say "died of herpes" for anyone with herpes virus.

The median age of the deceased in most countries (including Italy) is over 80 years and only about 1% of the deceased had no serious previous illnesses. The age and risk profile of deaths thus essentially corresponds to normal mortality.
Many media reports of young and healthy people dying from Covid19 have proven to be false upon closer inspection. Many of these people either did not die from Covid19 or they in fact had serious preconditions (such as undiagnosed leukaemia).
An important distinction concerns the question of whether people die with or indeed from coronaviruses. Autopsies show that in many cases the previous illnesses were an important or decisive factor, but the official figures usually do not reflect this.
Thus in order to assess the danger of the disease, the key indicator is not the often mentioned number of test-positive persons and deceased, but the number of persons who actually and unexpectedly develop or die of pneumonia.
The virus test kits used internationally are prone to errors. Several studies have shown that even normal corona viruses can give a false positive result. Moreover, the virus test currently in use has not been clinically validated due to time pressure.
 
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Karlysymon

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Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
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The article you posted from RT about face masks becoming the norm is a bit disconcerting. I got a new one that's better than a flimsy dust mask that would break just because of having a thick head of hair. However, new one makes me look like a thug or like a surfer or skier? :p It's very comfortable, but it's also ridiculous looking.
Another WHO official saying more disconcerting stuff. I don't like the guy already. A Freeman originally posted this video (pg 243)

Trump officially halted US funding the WHO.
No worries. Bill Gates is at the ready, with more cash.
 
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Karlysymon

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Mar 18, 2017
Messages
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For those who may be worried about mandatory vaccination containing the mark of the beast. You may want to consider this. I originally posted this 2yrs ago in my End of Humanity thread.

"....DARPA Advanced Tools for Mammalian Genome Engineering Project seeks to create a biological platform inside the human body, using it to deliver new genetic information, and thus altering humans at the DNA level. DARPA wants to insert an additional 47th artificial chromosome into human cells.
This chromosome will deliver new genes that will be used for engineering the human body."
WMD America: Inside the Pentagon’s Global Bioweapons Industry
 

illuminatimess

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Joined
Sep 3, 2017
Messages
667
For those who may be worried about mandatory vaccination containing the mark of the beast. You may want to consider this. I originally posted this 2yrs ago in my End of Humanity thread.

"....DARPA Advanced Tools for Mammalian Genome Engineering Project seeks to create a biological platform inside the human body, using it to deliver new genetic information, and thus altering humans at the DNA level. DARPA wants to insert an additional 47th artificial chromosome into human cells.
This chromosome will deliver new genes that will be used for engineering the human body."

WMD America: Inside the Pentagon’s Global Bioweapons Industry
German legal scholars are discussing this issue as well. Vaccines are qualified as infringements of the so called general personality rights. Legislators have to balance between two constitutional rights - public welfare and physical integrity. In general, the right of physical integrity weighs more than public welfare. But in the worst case, vaccines can be mandatory.

And what is the "mark of the Beast"? Is it the chip Gates talked about?
 

Karlysymon

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Mar 18, 2017
Messages
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Still, the best way to have a defense against the federal government encroaching on the states is to have people live, because if a lot of people die, that is going to be a way to justify greater federal intervention. If people don't die, then there is a chance that this whole shelter in place thing will piss off enough people to cause a constitutional convention that might allow us to secede and dissolve the federal government.

There are too many people to start swinging the FEMA executive orders around as though they are going to mean something to over 300 million people. So you know, it is to our advantage that people live right now.
I stumbled upon this interesting 200 pg document that deals with all the legal aspects of a flu pandemic, whether that be mandatory vaccination (personal rights over public health) or litigation over quarantine as stifling personal freedoms. I failed to take screen shots, so i'll just copy and paste.
Law, Federalism, the Constitution,
and Control of Pandemic Flu
Ernest B. Abbott*

I. INTRODUCTION...............................................................................186
A. Government Legal Authority to Protect the Public Health in
Emergencies ...........................................................................188
1. Crisis Phase .....................................................................188
2. Pre-Disaster Phase ...........................................................189
3. Post-Disaster Phase..........................................................190
B. Constitutional Underpinning of Emergency Response.............191
C. Emergency Management Simplified ........................................191
1. Who is In Charge? – Federalism and Coordination of
Multiple Responding Organizations .................................192
2. Public Health Emergency Powers ....................................195
3. Quarantine and Isolation: Definitions...............................195
4. Purpose of Quarantine: Increasing “Social Distance” .......196

D. Balancing Collective and Individual Rights: Jacobson v.
Massachusetts.........................................................................197
1. Procedural Due Process ...................................................198
2. A Digression: Procedural Due Process and the
Challenge of Mass Incidents ............................................199
3. Substantive Due Process ..................................................200
4. A Second Digression: Substantive Due Process, Fear
and Prejudice ...................................................................200
5. Substantive Due Process and Social Distancing
Measures .........................................................................201
E. Lessons from Canada: SARS Quarantine Enforcement ...........203
II. SPECIAL CHALLENGE OF PANDEMIC ................................................204
A. Accessing Emergency Personnel: Mutual Aid .........................204
B. Interstate Mutual Aid: EMAC.................................................205
C. Accessing Emergency Personnel: Volunteers ..........................206
D. Planning for Volunteers..........................................................206
E. Liability concerns and immunity: World Trade Center
* Ernest B. Abbott is Principal of Federal Emergency Management Agency
("FEMA") Law Associates, PLLC, specializing in legal and regulatory issues raised by
major disasters and emergencies. Mr. Abbott is co-editor of E. Abbott and O. Hetzel, A
LEGAL GUIDE TO HOMELAND SECURITY AND EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT FOR STATE AND
LOCAL GOVERNMENT (ABA Press 2005). More detailed biographical information is
available at www.fema-law.com. Some of the research supporting this paper was funded
by the Centers for Disease Control’s Public Health Law Program under contracts to
develop its Public Health Emergency Law training course.

On "federal gov't encroaching on the states", i thought this was interesting:

One of President George W. Bush’s initiatives after the 9/11
terrorist attacks sought to achieve this goal. Homeland Security
Presidential Directives (“HSPD”) Numbers 5 and 8 required the
Department of Homeland Security (“DHS”) to create a National Incident
Management System, or “NIMS,” that would apply to all types of events.
16 It then required federal agencies to comply with NIMS, and urged state
and local governments to follow or run the risk of losing federal funds. At
the outset, NIMS was created by executive fiat and, frankly, did not work
very well during Hurricane Katrina.17 Implementation was still in its
infancy and many federal, state and local decision makers did not even
know what it was. Surprisingly, NIMS' failure during Hurricane Katrina
did not lead to its downfall, but rather to renewed calls for NIMS training
and to legislation codifying key elements of NIMS into the Homeland
Security Act.18 For example, the Act now requires that the FEMA
Administrator enter into a Memorandum of Understanding with State,
local and tribal governments and “organizations that represent emergency
first responders, [which now includes the private sector to] [c]ollaborate
on developing standards for deployment capabilities, including
credentialing of personnel and typing of resources likely needed to
respond to natural disasters, acts of terrorism, and other man-made
disasters.”19 Thus, given the complex emergency operating environment,
the President issued executive orders to create an effective management
system for emergencies. In order to make that management system work,
Congress and the President enacted laws and required negotiation and
execution of agreements.
 
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