Paganism and Protestantism.

[Thunderian]

Do I need scripture to explain every exception to me? Can't I use the brains God created me with? Jesus commanded the apostles to baptise in the name of the Father Son and Holy Spirit. The Bible says we must get baptised and Jesus did it as our example too. On top of that the Bible shows many other baptisms in the Bible. Yet Jesus told the thief on the cross, "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise” (Luke 23:43). And he was never baptised because he couldn't. Those who can't be baptised be they can't for whatever reason, Jesus' baptism will be sufficient. Most people can be baptised and should as demonstrated by Jesus' baptism and other examples in the New Testament. Most of those baptisms took place after Jesus and the thief were crucified. So the thief is the exception that is obvious. It doesn't need spelling out honestly.

God does not spell everything to us, we have to look at prophecy especially end time prophecy to know that. Some things we have got to understand with help from the Holy Spirit, studying the Word and using our brains.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how cults are started.

 

[phipps]

Do you not understand the question? You say we become Jews when we are receive Christ, but you quote a verse that says there are no Jews in the body of Christ. Is that not a contradiction?

I explained Galatians 3:28 but you still don't get it? Lets read from verses 26-29 and see what Paul was saying.

"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Do I still need to explain to you what this means? We are all Israel and Abraham's seed if we are Christ's. Its not about genetics. Never will be ever again.

Paul uses almost the same language in 1 Corinthians 12:13, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit."

The body is the Church and we are all baptised into it regardless of who we are. There is no exception of anyone based on their genetics or standing in life.

 

[phipps]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how cults are started.

Do cults preach the truth and common sense to people? God gave us brains to use, and we should use them as He intended them to. The Bible does not spell everything out and you know that. Anybody who has read end time prophecy will know this. That is why its hard to decipher. You are just trying to find a way of not doing God's will by using the thief on the cross. You are even rejecting Jesus' baptism.

If anything you are the one starting a cult here by posting things that are against the Word of God.

Matthew 28:19-20, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them ... teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you.”

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Acts 2:38, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.”

Acts 3:19, “Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out.”

Acts 9:17-18, "And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized".

Acts 22:16, “Why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

1 Corinthians 12:13, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit."

Galatians 3:27, "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

 

[Thunderian]

You are even rejecting Jesus' baptism.

Don't be silly. What I am rejecting is badly interpreted Bible, and doctrine based on what you think, and not what's in the word of God.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Where in the Bible does it say the people who received the Holy Spirit did not get baptised? Acts 2 which is the chapter that talks about Pentecost day says the apostes receives the Holy Spirit. All those on the day of Pentecost received the Holy Spirit before baptism. It is really not an issue with me....You must be born again. Here is what is important Phipps, We should be preparing the way for the Lords return instead of arguing about words. Prepare the way for the Lord. in whom is the Son of God according to the Spirit and the son of David according to the flesh. Who has defeated Satan and become our righteousness before the Father, who is coming to judge this world of sin because they believe not in me (Him); Repent and be baptized, calling on the name of the Lord. All should be baptized, but baptism is not needed to be saved, but is a showing of the sincerity of the purchased possession and an in type the dying to self and rising to or as the new man in Christ. I may not have worded it the way you like....but nevertheless, prepare the way for the Lord.

 

[phipps]

@Douglas Summers

All those on the day of Pentecost received the Holy Spirit before baptism. It is really not an issue with me....You must be born again. Here is what is important Phipps, We should be preparing the way for the Lords return instead of arguing about words. Prepare the way for the Lord. in whom is the Son of God according to the Spirit and the son of David according to the flesh. Who has defeated Satan and become our righteousness before the Father, who is coming to judge this world of sin because they believe not in me (Him); Repent and be baptized, calling on the name of the Lord. All should be baptized, but baptism is not needed to be saved, but is a showing of the sincerity of the purchased possession and an in type the dying to self and rising to or as the new man in Christ. I may not have worded it the way you like....but nevertheless, prepare the way for the Lord.

As I posted in another response and on my baptism forum, some people received the Holy Spirit before baptism but they got baptised by water still.

And I am not arguing about words or for the sake of it. The Bible makes it plain that we must obey God's will and commandments. Instead here I encounter Christians who defend their doctrines that don't follow God's will and commandments. When I show them direct scripture they reject it.

If we are to prepare the way of the Lord part of that is telling the truth of God's Word isn't it? Can we prepare the way of the Lord with false doctrine? Remember Jesus is the Word and the Word is the truth. Part of preparing the way of the Lord is obeying Him completely and anyone who says otherwise hasn't understood the Bible.

The Bible is clear we have to be baptised to be saved unless we are in a situation where we can't like the thief on the cross. Just because you believe we don't have to be baptised to be saved does not make it the truth unless you don't believe in the clear Word of God. Here is scripture that says the opposite of what you're saying.

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

John 3:5, "Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Galatians 3:27, "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

Personally I don't understand how Christians can defend man made doctrines even when they've been shown actual evidence from the Word of God.

 

[Douglas Summers]

John 3:5, "Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Galatians 3:27, "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."

These have nothing to do with water baptism....There is only one baptism and that is by the Spirit of God. John the Baptist said, ",I, indeed baptize you with water, But He that cometh after me, is mightier than I, of shoes I am unworthy to bear, He shall BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE,"

 

[phipps]

These have nothing to do with water baptism....There is only one baptism and that is by the Spirit of God. John the Baptist said, ",I, indeed baptize you with water, But He that cometh after me, is mightier than I, of shoes I am unworthy to bear, He shall BAPTIZE YOU WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT AND FIRE,"

Douglas Summers you are wrong. Being baptised by water and the Holy Spirit is baptism. We have to be baptised by water and the Holy Spirit as Jesus was and that's that. You can go on rejecting the truth of the Bible but it will always be the truth and God will judge us by it not your false doctrine. I have posted so much scripture about baptism for anyone here not to understand the clear Word of God on it. I'll repost what I posted to the other poster here who like you keeps rejecting the Word of God on baptism.

Matthew 28:19-20, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them ... teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you.”

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Acts 2:38, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.”

Acts 3:19, “Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out.”

Acts 9:17-18, "And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized".

Acts 22:16, “Why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

1 Corinthians 12:13, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit."

 

[phipps]

Emotional worship.

Worship is primarily about glorifying God and expressing our love and appreciation for what He has done for us. God is at the centre or should be at the centre of worship. During worship:-

There must be reverence and adoration for God (Hebrews 12:28; Leviticus 19:30; Revelation 5:11-14).

There must be order and edification (1 Corinthians 14:26, 40; Psalm 107:31-32).

Members should participate in praise and loving worship (Psalm 150:1, 6; Psalm 26:8; 31:23; 40:16).

Prayer is an important part of worship (1 Corinthians 14:15), Praise-singing (1 Corinthians 14:15; Psalm 149:1, Matthew 26:30, Jesus and His disciples used hymns, scripture should be read and quoted in church (Acts 13:27, 33-37).

A healthy worship experience involves intellectual, emotional and spiritual worship. It engages both the mind and the heart, the intellect and the emotion, the thoughtful proclamation of the Word and the joyful celebration of divine love and grace. This balance is sometimes missing in the worship of some Christian congregations.

The problem is that too many Christians' worship is about what makes us feel. They expect to come to a worship service to “feel” the presence of God. They often judge the success of a worship service by how many people lifted their hands up, shouted “Amen”, "Hallelujah" etc. People become more interested in excitement and being entertained than studying God's Word. There is irreverence and loss of dignity.

The charismatic trend is to experience the power of the Spirit through rhythmic music, hallelujah shouting, and orchestrated preaching that stir up feelings, emotions. The proclamation of the truths of God’s Word plays a secondary role in the worship.

Emotion-based religion changes the focus from Christ to the believers. As experiences become more important than sound doctrine and practice, God-deprived followers seek greater and more exciting “manifestations of the Spirit” in attempts to satisfy their souls. They focus on self rather than God. It is the self-centred spirit of Satanism. "I will exalt my throne . . • ; I will be like the most High" (Isaiah 14:13-14); "exalteth himself above all that is called God" (2 Thessalonians 2:4).

God invites us to "reason together" (Isaiah 1:18). When we base our faith and worship on our senses, we are opening ourselves up to delusion. Satan can use these avenues to reach our souls with lies. Self-control is one of the fruits of the Spirit, and these manifestations and emotions are completely devoid of self-control. One can only conclude that the spirit behind these manifestations is not God's.

 

[phipps]

Music in worship

Music has always been an integral part of worship. Music is an act of worship. One of the purposes for the creation of mankind was to worship God (Revelation 14:7) and one of the ways of worshipping God is through music. God is the Creator of music. When He made all things “the morning stars sang together and the angels shouted for joy" (Job 38:7). The book of Revelation portrays heaven as a place of ceaseless praise, with songs of adoration to God and the Lamb resounding from all (Revelation 4:9-11; 5:9-13; 7:10-12; 12:10-12; 14:1-3; 15:2-4; 19:1-8). The Lord requests the worship of His creatures through music (Psalm 150). He enjoys being praised.

However we've got to be careful about the music we listen to personally and use in church worship. Not all music is good. Music is very powerful. There is no language more powerful than the language of music. It crosses all cultural and linguistic barriers. Music affects emotions. It can move us to be more happy, content, peaceful, joyful, and gentle or it can move us to be more angry, or sad. So depending on what kind of music we listen to can affect how we feel.

In church Christians should resist worship styles and music that have more to do with self-centred entertainment than a humble worship of God. We must recognise that we have many different cultures and styles of worship in our churches, but all should bring glory to God and not to the participants, including preachers, musicians, and everyone. We need to focus on worshipping God and not elevating self. Music should lift us to the throne room of heaven. If music sounds like it belongs to a hard rock concert or a night club, it should stay there. It has no place in church.

All music the Christian listens to in church or personally, performs or composes, whether sacred or secular, will glorify God: “Therefore, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God” (Corinthians 10:31). This is the over-riding biblical principle. Anything that cannot meet this high standard will weaken our experience with the Lord.

All music the Christian listens to, performs or composes, whether sacred or secular, should be the noblest and the best: “Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things” (Philippians 4:8). As followers of Jesus Christ who hope and expect to join the heavenly choirs, we view life on this earth as a preparation for, and foretaste of, the life to come.

 

[elsbet]

Douglas Summers you are wrong. Being baptised by water and the Holy Spirit is baptism. We have to be baptised by water and the Holy Spirit as Jesus was and that's that. You can go on rejecting the truth of the Bible but it will always be the truth and God will judge us by it not your false doctrine. I have posted so much scripture about baptism for anyone here not to understand the clear Word of God on it. I'll repost what I posted to the other poster here who like you keeps rejecting the Word of God on baptism.

Matthew 28:19-20, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them ... teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you.”

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Acts 2:38, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.”

Acts 3:19, “Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out.”

Acts 9:17-18, "And Ananias went his way and entered the house; and laying his hands on him he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you came, has sent me that you may receive your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” Immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he received his sight at once; and he arose and was baptized".

Acts 22:16, “Why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

1 Corinthians 12:13, "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit."

You posted this;

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Who shall be damned?

The one who doesn't believe... not the one who isn't baptized. Baptism is good-- but it is not a condition of salvation.

 

[phipps]

You posted this;

Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."

Who shall be damned?

The one who doesn't believe... not the one who isn't baptized. Baptism is good-- but it is not a condition of salvation.

Are you basing what I posted about baptism on only this scripture? What about the rest? In order to understand a subject in the Bible we don't base it on only one scripture do we? That is why I have a whole forum on baptism because the Bible has a lot more to say about it. After we read all the scripture including what Jesus said, its clear its a condition to salvation. And the above text says we have to believe and be baptised. Just because it doesn't repeat the baptism part when it says, "he that believeth not shall be damned" doesn't mean baptism can be done away with. Jesus got baptised for a purpose and He is our example. We should all get baptised and follow His example.

Paul said in Romans 6:4-6, “Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.” When we get baptised, we are uniting with Christ in His death, burial, and resurrection. So when we get baptised, we are surrendering our lives to Christ.

I don't know what some preachers are doing teaching that baptism in unnecessary for salvation when biblically that is not true. How can an experience of sharing in Christ's death, burial and resurrection be unnecessary? How can something Jesus commanded (Matthew 28:19-20) be unnecessary? How can something He Himself did be unnecessary for salvation? Nothing Jesus did here on earth was unnecessary.

John 3:5, "Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Please stop finding reasons in the Bible to support the false doctrine of baptism is not a condition for salvation. The Bible is clear about this subject and I don't think its hard to understand.

 

[phipps]

The Prosperity Gospel

A popular television preacher has a simple message: God wants to bless you, and the proof of His blessing is the abundance of material possessions that you own. In other words, if you are faithful, God will make you wealthy.

This idea, or variants of it, has been called the prosperity gospel: follow God, and He will make you wealthy in worldly goods. This idea is nothing but a false theological justification for materialism, because what it’s really saying is, do you want to be materialistic and to feel good about it? Well, we have got the “gospel” for you.

Yet, connecting the gospel with guaranteed wealth is a misdirected sideshow. This belief creates dissonance with Scripture and reflects a self-centred theology that is nothing more than half-truth clothed in biblical language. At the core of this lie is the issue at the core of all sin, and that is self and the desire to please self above everything else. The theology of the prosperity gospel teaches that, in giving to God, we gain in return a guarantee of material wealth. But this makes God a vending machine and turns our relationship with Him into nothing but a deal: I do this and You promise to do that in return. We give, not because it is the right thing to do but because of what we get in return. That’s the prosperity gospel.

2 Corinthians 8:1–7, is about people who although were in “extreme poverty” were nevertheless very generous, giving even more than they could afford. Verses such as these, and many others, help refute the false theology of the prosperity gospel, which teaches that if you are living right with God you will have many material possessions to show for it.

And there are many examples throughout the Bible of people who were faithful to God but are not rich in worldly possessions, and those who are not faithful to God but who are rich in worldly possessions. This should this tell us about using wealth as an indicator of God’s blessings.

Whose ideology is it to reward people with material gains in exchange for worship? Which Biblical character deals in earthly wealth if worshipped?

Which character asked Jesus Christ to kneel down and worship him in return for earthly wealth? Let the Scriptures answer; "Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory" (Matthew 4:8).

What the devil has done today is simply to invert this ideology. The same old satanic ideology has simply been inverted to suit today’s Christian in the current era. It has been inverted to make the believer think that God uses the same modus operandi.

The devil’s ideology of rewarding people for worshipping is a theme which runs throughout his dealings in the Bible. He offered Christ massive earthly wealth requesting to be worshipped.

Satan is the god of this world and its systems and it is ridiculous for true Christians to want to cling on to worldly comfort. The Luciferian ideology is the same psychology which Satan used to lure a third of the Heavenly angels and Adam and is using it with huge success on the modern day Christian.

 

[phipps]

State of the dead.

Some Protestant churches preach that when the righteous die they go directly to heaven. They teach that the human soul is immortal, and only the physical body actually dies. They see death as the transition from one state of consciousness to another. According to this doctrine, the soul is a separate entity that only resides in the body of the living. This is not biblical at all.

I have a forum on the state of the dead here, but I have to explain a little of what the Bible says on the state of the dead.

Genesis 2:7 clearly states that God breathed into the formed man the "breath of life" and the man became a living soul. He did not receive a living soul; he became one. The NKJV Bible states, "man became a living being." A soul is a living being. A soul is always a combination of two things: body plus breath. A soul cannot exist unless body and breath are combined. God’s Word teaches that we are souls—not that we have souls.

The Bible also tells us that the “The body without the spirit is dead” (James 2:26) and “The spirit of God is in my nostrils” (Job 27:3 KJV). So the spirit according to the Bible is the breath of life and the body without the breath of life is dead obviously. That breath of life returns to God when we die. Nowhere in all of God’s book does the “spirit” have any life, wisdom, or feeling after a person dies. It is the “breath of life” and nothing more.

The Bible tells us in Ecclesiastes 12:7, “Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it.” The body turns to dust again, and the spirit goes back to God, who gave it. The spirit of every person who dies—whether saved or unsaved—returns to God at death.

Do good people go to heaven when they die?

“All who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth” (John 5:28-29).

“David … is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. … For David did not ascend into the heavens” (Acts 2:29, 34).

“If I wait, the grave is mine house” (Job 17:13 KJV).

No. People do not go to heaven or to hell at death. They don’t go anywhere—but they wait in their graves for the resurrection.

How much does one know or comprehend after death?

“The living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; nevermore will they have a share in anything done under the sun. … There is no work or device or knowledge or wisdom in the grave where you are going” (Ecclesiastes 9:5-6, 10).

“The dead do not praise the Lord” (Psalm 115:17).

God says that the dead know absolutely nothing!

What happens to the righteous dead at the second coming of Christ?

“Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work” (Revelation 22:12).

“The Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout. … And the dead in Christ will rise. … And thus we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).

“We shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye … and the dead will be raised incorruptible. … For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:51-53).

They will be rewarded. They will be raised, given immortal bodies, and caught up to meet the Lord in the air. There would be no purpose in a resurrection if people were taken to heaven at death.

So where do the falsities of the state of the dead come from?

From the devil. It was his first lie in the garden of Eden. He told Eve that she would not die. “The serpent said to the woman, ‘You will not surely die’ ” (Genesis 3:4). The idea that our soul is immortal is a lie that originated in Eden to convince us that we are immortal like God.

We are not immortal, but it's true that we were never meant to die. Death entered the world as a consequence of sin (Romans 6:23). Only when Adam and Eve chose to ignore God's good plan and choose death did it become a reality.

Another place that the false doctrine of the state of the dead has come from is paganism which is satanic too. Beliefs in reincarnation, communication with the dead and worship of ancestors is common in many cultures. The New Age movement claims communion with spirit beings. In Biblical times, King Saul consulted the witch of Endor and supposedly communicated with Samuel who had been dead for some time.

Saul's communication with the dead Samuel in 1 Samuel 28:3-25 is often quoted in support of communication with the dead, where King Saul consults the medium at Endor who supposedly calls up Samuel to advise him. Saul had been troubled by evil spirits throughout his life, and through his actions had severed his connection with God. Saul, however, remembered that Samuel's predictions regarding his life had all been fulfilled. In his panic, he asked for the spirit of dead Samuel to advise him.

In verse 14 Saul asks the medium, "What form is he of?" indicating that he did not see Samuel himself. Moreover, the apparition taunted Saul by telling him that his crown would go to his rival. This message did not require visionary powers. David had already been anointed, and Israel had not humbled itself before the Lord, making it more than likely that they would be defeated by the Philistines.

As the dead are in a state of unconsciousness, it is evident that the spirit of Samuel did not communicate with Saul. Rather, it was an evil spirit. According to the Scriptures, Satan can communicate with people and present himself as an angel of light (Matthew 4:1-11; 2 Corinthians 11:14).

The Bible teaches that in the last days, people will be studying the doctrines of devils, and we should have no dealings with demonic forces:

1 Timothy 4:1, "Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons."

1 Corinthians 10:20-21, "Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord’s table and of the table of demons."

 

[phipps]

Faith healing and miracles.

In many protestant churches especially some charismatic ones, there are wonders and miracles in their meetings, and since the Bible repeatedly tells us that both Satan and God can do miracles through their human agents, it should be in our best interest to find out whether these miracles are from God or from Satan. The Bible tells us in 1 John 4:1, "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." How do we test the spirits?

Well, do these teachers/preachers/pastors/prophets live according to God's Word? The Bible tells us in 1 Timothy 3:1-7, "This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous; one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?); not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil. Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil." Do the pastors who perform miracles in church meet these qualifications?

What kind of message do these teachers/pastors/prophets preach? Do they speak and write in harmony with the Bible? "To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them" (Isaiah 8:20). If they teach and behave contrary to Scripture, they are false prophets and “there is no light in them".

Miracles in themselves do not reveal their source. Miracles are not proof that someone who performs is a person of God. They prove only one thing, supernatural power. But supernatural power may come either from God or from Satan. That is why we are told to test the spirits. In Paul's second letter to the Corinthians, chapter 11 and verses 13-15 we read: "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works."

Jesus also warned what will happen at the end time, "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect" (Matthew 24:24). God warns us of false christs and false prophets who will be so extremely convincing that they will deceive all except the very elect of God. Billions will be deceived and lost.

Today many are claiming that their message and miracles/wonders are from God. But please do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see if they are from God. Jesus tells us that we are to know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:16). Do their lives reveal the Biblical pattern of life?

When someone comes preaching another gospel and denying Christ's words it doesn't matter what miracles they claim, they are not of Christ and the spirit that they claim cannot be Christ's. If its not Christ's, its Satan's.

There will be true teachers/pastors/prophets of God in the last days and we are not to reject them. We should carefully test them by the Bible and what they say and do. If their words and behaviour are in harmony with the Bible, we should heed them. Ultimately they must lead people to worship God according to the Bible. That should be the focus of their preaching.

 

[phipps]

Experiential Religion.

Summary: The Vatican has recommended that churches undertake celebratory, emotional church services. Spiritual experiences are being evoked as grounds for unity, and doctrine is falling to the wayside.

The Vatican II Council issued recommendations on liturgy—the singing, prayers, congregational responses, and Scripture readings that make up a church service. These directives discussed ways to incorporate the whole church community in the service, making them more involved in worship procedures.

Churches were encouraged to shift away from traditional sermons that exhort and equip and instead concentrate on the cursory reading of extracts from the Psalms and Gospels. They were instructed to replace traditional hymns with popular music, modern musical instruments, and physical movement of the congregation. Churches were also encouraged to adapt their styles of worship to suit their cultures. The liturgical section of the Vatican II document, Volume 1, can be summarized as follows:

1. Get the churches accustomed to celebration terminology and the celebration concept. Every function of the church becomes a celebration.

2. Get the churches accustomed to a revitalized style of celebration service, encouraging a reduction of inhibition which includes physical gestures, bodily attitudes and movement.

3. Set forth song and musical celebration services as the most effective celebrations.

4. Utilizing popular religious songs and relating music to the various cultures and the temperaments of the people.

The "Instructions on Music in the Liturgy" section of the Vatican II document says this:

"...the unity of hearts is more profoundly achieved by the union of voices, minds are more easily raised to heavenly things by the beauty of sacred rites...In order that the faithful may actively participate more willingly and with greater benefit, it is fitting that the format of the celebration and the degree of participation in it should be varied as much as possible, according to the solemnity of the day and the nature of the congregation present...The participation (a) Should be above all internal (b) Must be, on the other hand, external also, that is, such as to show the internal participation by gestures and bodily attitudes, by acclamations, responses and singing." Austin Flannery (ed.), "Instructions on Music in the Liturgy," Vatican II Council: The Conciliar and Post-Conciliar Documents (New York: Costello Publishing, 1979): 81, 83-84.

Emotions or Faith?

Emotions are a vital ingredient of this type of worship. There is nothing inherently wrong with emotions, but when they take the place of truth and rational thinking they cannot be trusted. The Catechism of the Catholic Church adds to the above statements of Vatican II:

"Song and music fulfill their function as signs in a manner all the more significant when they are "more closely connected…with the liturgical action," according to three principal criteria: beauty expressive of prayer, the unanimous participation of the assembly at the designated moments, and the solemn character of the celebration. In this way they participate in the purpose of the liturgical words and actions: the glory of God and the sanctification of the faithful: How I wept, deeply moved by your hymns, songs, and the voices that echoed through your Church! What emotion I experienced in them! Those sounds flowed into my ears distilling the truth in my heart. A feeling of devotion surged within me, and tears streamed down my face—tears that did me good." "Singing and Music: 1157," Catechism of the Catholic Church.

The word “celebration” is repeated over and over again in these documents, showing that emotionalism has a high priority. The danger is that liturgy can replace the Word. Singing, responsive readings, music, and praise activities can take the place of Word-based religion, thus offering a form of “godliness” devoid of God’s Word.

Vatican II issued directives on what is important in church services—liturgy, music, and activities—so that church became a place people went to in order to have an experience. Their suspicions of Rome diminishing, and forgetting the Reformation, Protestants churches listened. Under the new ecumenical spirit, they allowed Rome to issue recommendations based not on the straight preaching of the Word but on feelings and experience. This experiential religion became known as The Charismatic Movement.

Link.

 

[phipps]

Amazingly, some of the most prominent doctrines of Protestantism today are not found in the Bible at all. They have been brought into the Protestant churches by the Mother Church of Rome, who received them from paganism. A few of these false teachings are that:

A. The law of God has been amended or repealed. God’s law can never be changed or repealed (Luke 16:17).

B. The soul is immortal. The Bible mentions "soul" and "spirit" nearly 1,000 times. Not once is either referred to as immortal. People are mortal (Job 4:17), and none receives immortality until Jesus’ second advent (1 Corinthians 15:51-54).

C. Sinners burn eternally in hell. The Bible teaches that sinners will be consumed (put out of existence), both soul and body, in the fire (Matthew 10:28). An eternal hell of torment is not taught in the Bible.

D. Baptism by immersion is not necessary. Baptism by immersion is the only baptism recognized by Scripture.

E. Sunday is God’s holy day. The Bible teaches, without question, that God’s holy day is the seventh-day Sabbath—Saturday.

Note: These false teachings, once believed, tend to bring “confusion” (which is what the term “Babylon” literally means) and make understanding Scripture much more difficult.

A Sobering Thought: It’s sobering to think that some might unknowingly be drinking Babylon’s wine. Perhaps this is all new to you. If so, ask God to guide you (Matthew 7:7, Then search the Scriptures (Acts 17:11). If we promise to follow where Jesus leads, and He will not permit us to end up in error (John 7:17)."

"We Must Test the Spirits- The Bible warns that we must test the spirits (1 John 4:1). If they do not agree with the Bible, they are counterfeits (Isaiah 8:19-20). Further, the true gifts of the Holy Spirit are never given to one who deliberately and knowingly disobeys God (Acts 5:32). "

"When called out of Babylon, where should a Christian go? Find the people who keep God’s commandments, have the faith of Jesus, and are preaching the three angels’ messages worldwide, and join them (Revelation 14:6-12)."

 

[phipps]

THE GREAT DECEPTION OF TONGUE SPEAKING !!
There are many sincere and honest Christians who have spoken in the ecstatic utterances of today. Many of these dear people do not know that this is not the true gift, as spoken of in the Bible. They truly love God and have thought that this is what He desired. The Almighty condemns no man for his honest ignorance. Man is judged by the light that he has received and by the use he has made of that light. Our God, in His love, allows correction and instruction to come, because He loves His dear people, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent" (Revelation 3:19).

The modern ecstatic utterances are actually very far from harmless. It is very dangerous to submit ourselves to the working of a spirit that is not from God. No one speaks in tongues like that when they were filled with the Holy Spirit.

The heart of the tongue-speaking movement’s message is in Acts 2. In the second chapter of Acts is found the first instance when the Christian church was given the gift of tongues. Because it is the first time that anything like this is recorded in the Bible, great detail is given. There is great elaboration, to make sure that we understand exactly what this gift is and why it was given as I have in this post in this thread.

Biblically, speaking in tongues means being able to speak in another language without having learned it first or having lived in the country. Its a gift given by the Holy Spirit for the purpose of preaching the gospel.

 

[phipps]

The Ecumenical movement is pagan.

We have been warned of a coming apostasy or “falling away” just before the Second Coming of Christ (2 Thessalonians 2:1-11). The Bible provides us with many admonitions, but what exactly will this “falling away” look like when it finally appears?

Protestantism has unfortunately joined hands with Rome and has done so for decades. Not only has Protestantism joined hands with Rome, they've joined hands with un-chrisitan religions such as Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, Bahá’í, Zoroastrianism, Scientology, Falon gong, Aztecs and Wicca (witches). Yes, Wicca. Wicca is that old pagan religion that is based on witchcraft, magic and casting spells through the power of the occult.

On September 3 to 21, 2019 different faith groups and Wiccans, came together to unite in the “name of peace.” The event was sponsored by the Church of Scientology in Los Angeles and consisted of 4 different interfaith sessions culminating in an ecumenical march for “unity and solidarity.”

This entire ecumenical extravaganza began with a traditional, pagan Aztec ceremony designed to “bless those attending.” Aztec dancers performed while the “Shaman” (a person having access to the spirit world) made his offerings to the Aztecan gods. They danced, prayed and offered incense while calling on their many gods for blessings of peace during the interfaith event. This is divination and communication with evil spirits.

The program concluded on Sunday, September 22, 2019 with an interfaith solidarity march through the streets of Los Angeles. This was a celebration to all the gods, goddesses, the universe (god) and to Lucifer himself! Have we completely lost our minds, and have we forgotten what God says about this?

Psalm 96:5, “For all the gods of the peoples are idols, But the Lord made the heavens."

Deuteronomy 32:17, “They sacrificed to demons, not to God, To gods they did not know, To new gods, new arrivals That your fathers did not fear."

1 Corinthians 10:14, “Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.”

2 Corinthians 6:16, “And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will dwell in them and walk among them. I will be their God, and they shall be My people.”

1 Corinthians 10:21, “You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons; you cannot partake of the Lord’s table and of the table of demons.”

Idolatry is abhorred by God (Exodus 20:1-6), and in these new, pluralistic, interfaith events we see the endorsement of the gods of Falon Gong, Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism, Hinduism, Bahá’í, Zoroastrianism, Scientology, Aztecs and Wicca.

They think that somehow they can unite these false gods with the true God of heaven through interfaith cooperation! What does the Creator of the universe have to do with animists and pantheists who bow down to animals, plants and to gods of stone?

During this interfaith forum Jesus is made equal to Lucifer. Truth and error, light and darkness and Christ and Beelzebub become one of the same – all in the name of peace and unity! They are crying, “Peace, peace; when there is no peace” (Jeremiah 6:14). Far from obtaining peace, they are “treasuring up wrath unto the day of wrath” (Romans 2:5).

How Would Jesus Respond?

There is absolutely no biblical justification for any of this. There are no words that anyone can give to say that this is OK. This is not what Jesus did. Not only is Jesus the Author of all the Bible texts we’ve read so far, He also sat down with people whose belief systems were wrong and He worked to correct them, not celebrate them. When Jesus sat down in dialogue with the Samaritan woman, what did He say to her? Notice how Christ didn’t focus on the common points of interest:

“You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. … God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth” (John 4:22, 24).

What did Jesus do? He peacefully engaged with people in conversation and showed them which was the best way to praise and worship God. Jesus always spoke truth with love, and He never sat down during a pagan celebration with divination and incantations to demons. The only words that Jesus had for the devil (Luke 4:9-13) were “It is written.” There was no cooperation or dialogue.

 

[phipps]

1 Timothy 4:1, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils."