What Happens when we die according to the Bible?

phipps

Established
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
366
Likes
484
#1
Everyone asks that question at some time in life. Some believe we come back reincarnated in another form. Others say we go to heaven or hell, depending on the sort of life we have lived. Others says we go to purgatory where we spend countless ages of torment being purged of our sins before we can go to heaven. Still others believe that death is the end of everything, that when we die, there is nothing else.

What does the word of God tell us?

In Genesis 3:16-17, we learn that death was the punishment for disobeying God. Without sin, there would have been no death. Man would have lived forever. Revelation 21:4 tells us of a time when there will be no more death, when God has finally dealt with the sin problem.

What is it like to be dead?

Jesus described death like being asleep. John 11:11-14. The early Christians also looked on death as a sleep. (I Thessalonians 4:13-18; 2 Peter 3:4; Acts 7:60)

What is it like to be asleep?

Are we aware of what is going on around us? No, until we rouse, we don't know anything. We just rest peacefully until morning. Jesus says death is like that.

Do the dead know anything?

No. Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten... Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."

Will the dead wake up again?

Yes, Jesus said the time will come when all who are asleep in death will hear His voice and awake. (John 5:28). For those who have done good, this will be the resurrection to eternal life. For those who have done evil, it will be a resurrection to condemnation. Revelation 20:12-14 tells us that this judgement will be followed by the second death which is eternal.

The Bible does not talk about Christians going to heaven when you die. But more than forty times it tells us about the Resurrection. This is why a Christian funeral contains the words of Jesus: "I am the resurrection and the Life. He that believeth on Me, though he were dead, yet shall he live."

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope...For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words." 1 Thessalonians 4:13, 16-18.

How can we be sure there will be a resurrection?

There has been one already, the resurrection of Jesus.

1 Corinthians 15:12-22
"Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive".
 





Last edited:

phipps

Established
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
366
Likes
484
#2
Death: Understanding the Terminology

One of the most deceptive doctrines of Babylon is the doctrine of the immortality of the soul. This teaching suggests that humans don't actually die, but instead our souls are merely transferred to a new dimension of living, whether it be purgatory or an immediate afterlife.

This doctrine has permeated the religious world with its false promises and claims. The truth of the matter is that when we die, our souls enter the sleep of death, and will not be resurrected until Christ returns.

Soul immortality is a dangerous doctrine. If we believe in soul immortality, it becomes easy to accept other false ideas such as spiritism, reincarnation, and necromancy.

Soul immortality also offers a false hope, because it allows for multiple chances to qualify for salvation—whether through purgatory, praying to dead saints, or purchasing indulgences for those who have already died. We should not tolerate any of these doctrines or practices because they are all rooted in a false perception of death.

Learn more about the Biblical perspective on death, and some of the false doctrines that have distracted people from the truth.

Breath, Life, and Spirit

The origins of life and death are a mystery that even the scientific world cannot solve. The Scriptures, however, provide clear-cut answers on the origin of life and the origin and state of death. According to the Creation account, humanity received the gift of life from God:

"And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul" (Genesis 2:7).

The Hebrew word for "breath" in Genesis 2:7 is neshamah: the life-giving principle. The breath is equivalent to life itself (Isaiah 2:22). Another Hebrew word which is translated 28 times as "breath" in the King James Version is ruach, which can also mean "wind," "disposition," or "spirit." It is translated 237 times as "spirit" in the KJV. In Genesis 2:7, God's breath makes the inanimate material come to life, and transforms it into a living soul.

Job correlates the usage of breath and the spirit, saying, "All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils" (Job 27:3).

Moses reported that the breath of life was in Adam's nostrils, whereas Job referred to both terms, saying that the spirit of the Lord was in his nostrils. Hence, the Hebrew terms neshamah and ruach are used here in a similar context—namely life itself. According to the Scriptures, all living creatures received life in the same way from God, and are subject to the same fate (Genesis 2:19; 7:15).

Both human and beast "have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast" (Ecclesiastes 3:19). And since humans and beasts have one breath, they also die the same way. "For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts...as the one dieth, so dieth the other " (Ecclesiastes 3:19). Both humans and animals were created from dust. When they die they return again to dust; the reverse of Creation (Genesis 3:19).

The Hebrew for "soul" is nephesh, and both the terms ruach and nephesh have frequently been misapplied to suit unBiblical positions about death.
 





Joined
Jun 1, 2018
Messages
260
Likes
283
#4
What is it like to be asleep?

Are we aware of what is going on around us? No, until we rouse, we don't know anything. We just rest peacefully until morning. Jesus says death is like that.
Christ says otherwise (The Rich man and Lazarus) This is not a parable! Christ is specific about the name, but even if it were a parable, it tells what happens after the death of the body. Then shall the Dust (body) return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) This pertains to the righteous from the preacher. 12:1-14.
 





Todd

Veteran
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
974
Likes
1,579
#5
Revelation 20:12-14 tells us that this judgement will be followed by the second death which is eternal.
How can death be eternal if Jesus is going to destroy death? Isaiah 25:8 and Revelation 21:4
 





Joined
Jul 11, 2018
Messages
57
Likes
69
#6
Not everyone remembers or maybe not everyone goes there, but there is somewhere that some go. My husband who is a fellow follower of Yeshua, was in a place before his birth. He remembers it well and in detail. It was like just his soul there. Then was told before being born to spread God's holy word. So, I can see where for alot of people they see afterlife experiences as secular but I know for a fact that's not absolute because of my husband's experience.
 





Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
366
Likes
484
#7
Christ says otherwise (The Rich man and Lazarus) This is not a parable! Christ is specific about the name, but even if it were a parable, it tells what happens after the death of the body. Then shall the Dust (body) return to the earth as it was; and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) This pertains to the righteous from the preacher. 12:1-14.

In Luke 16:19-31, Jesus tells a parable that has led to a lot of controversy. Some people believe that the teaching—a story about a rich man and a beggar who die and go to hell and heaven—is to be taken literally, and gives proof that God’s people go to heaven immediately after they die.
However, others show us that the language and setting of the story are figurative. Most scenes in the parable contradict the teachings of Scriptures, indicating that Jesus was telling the story to convey a larger truth.


The Context

Throughout history, God had named the Israelite people His own. The nation had been highly favoured by God as His children, and as the recipients of His truth.

The Jews were called to use the truth God gave them to lead other nations to God. For this reason, God placed them at the crossroads between the great nations and trade routes of that time.

However, instead of fulfilling their mission, the Jews had become self-centred, claiming salvation only for themselves. While priding themselves in their exclusivity, they had nevertheless embraced heathen teachings, including lies regarding the afterlife, but always with the provision that their heritage would get them into heaven.

In His story about Lazarus the beggar, Jesus speaks against the hypocrisy of these views.


The Lessons

Jesus told this story as a sharp rebuke to the Jewish religious leaders. In the parable, the rich man represents the Jewish nation, and the poor man represents the Gentiles.

The rich man had the knowledge of the King of kings (purple is the colour of royalty), and the means to attaining righteousness (white linen). But as the parable unfolds, Jesus turns the viewpoint of the Jewish leaders on its head by placing the rich man in "hell" and the poor man in "Abraham's bosom."

Jesus was saying that personal status does not guarantee salvation. He was telling the Jews that they could only find salvation in God’s grace, not their own works or lineage. The Jews claimed Abraham as their father (John 8:39), but in the parable "Father Abraham" was unable to help the rich man.

The New Testament states that those who are in Christ are Abraham's seed (Galatians 3:29), and that Christ came to restore the wounded and broken hearted. Only those who realize their own spiritual poverty and need for Christ can attain His blessings.

Through this story, Jesus was also revealing to the disciples their new task: to break tradition and preach the Gospel with power to the Jews and the Gentiles alike.

As each scene unfolds in the parable, it conveys a spiritual truth contrary to the mindset of the Jewish leaders. The modern trend of taking this parable literally in order to support the doctrine of hell does great injustice to the intent of the story, and causes us to miss the deeper message it holds.


Conclusion

According to the Bible, death is a state of unconscious sleep. This does not mean that there is no record in heaven of the sleeping saints. God knows our being, our very nature, and when He calls forth the sleeping saints, they rise with imperishable bodies and the characters that they have formed under His guidance.

The Biblical record of death, far from being disturbing, is comforting. Our ancestors are not watching our every mistake and feeling the pain of our wrong choices. They are blissfully unaware of unfolding events as they sleep until the day of the resurrection. If we are strengthened by these Biblical truths, the deceptive power of false teachings and miracles can have no hold over us. We will be better prepared to stand in the last days.



According to the parable, thank God it is a parable and is not literal, people in heaven and hell would be communicating for eternity. Can you imagine being in heaven while communicating and watching your loved ones being tormented in hell through eternity? It doesn't bear thinking about. Is that really heaven? Doesn't the Bible say God will wipe away all suffering when the righteous get to heaven? Is God that cruel? The parable also contradicts what the Bible says about heaven and hell. Another thing is it talks about one drop of water cooling the tongue of a person who's in torment. Well that's obviously an exaggeration. And then finally, it says that the beggar who dies and is saved goes to Abraham's bosom. There's no other Scripture anywhere that says that all the saved go to the bosom of Abraham. If that's true, then he has one very large bosom because there have been a lot of saints who have died through the ages. So there's so much symbolic language in this that if we take all of the pictures literally, we're going to come up with a very distorted picture. The lesson in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is always missed because people use it to try and prove the state of the dead and hell.

Jesus does not contradict Himself or His word (the Bible) ever.
 





Last edited:
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
366
Likes
484
#8
How can death be eternal if Jesus is going to destroy death? Isaiah 25:8 and Revelation 21:4
Jesus is God and has power over life and death. After Jesus returns and all the judgements and the wicked are destroyed forever, it will the end of sin in the universe forever. There will be no more death ever again. Jesus will have destroyed death eternally.

He also destroyed death eternally for those who accepted His gift of salvation because they will live forever with Him after He returns a second time. They should have died for the wages of sin is death. Jesus died not only the physical death, which is temporary until resurrection, but He also "tasted death" for everyone (Hebrews 2:9). Jesus paid the "penalty death," which is total separation from God.
 





Last edited:
Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
366
Likes
484
#9
Not everyone remembers or maybe not everyone goes there, but there is somewhere that some go. My husband who is a fellow follower of Yeshua, was in a place before his birth. He remembers it well and in detail. It was like just his soul there. Then was told before being born to spread God's holy word. So, I can see where for alot of people they see afterlife experiences as secular but I know for a fact that's not absolute because of my husband's experience.

If people have after life experiences it means they were not dead. The Word of God tells us that when a person is dead, they do not see lights or hear voices. There is no conscious thought, no sense of passing through a tunnel, or no movement toward a brilliant light. That is why they can tell us of those experiences in the first place. Dead people are asleep and do not know anything.

Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, "For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten... Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest."

“For in death there is no remembrance of You; in the grave who will give You thanks” (Psalm 6:5). Over 50 times the Bible speaks of death as an unconscious state, like sleep (see John 11:11–14).

The Bible says, “Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish” (Psalm 146:3-4). In other words we should trust the word of God above anything man says. If it contradicts God's word, we should believe God above what anyone says. We should never build our theology on people's near-death experiences because they're all different and they contradict each other too. Let us not turn our minds away from the truth found in God’s Word.

The Bible does talk about an afterlife but that is after Jesus returns and there is a resurrection of the dead.
 





Last edited:
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
974
Likes
1,579
#10
Jesus is God and has power over life and death. After Jesus returns and all the judgements and the wicked are destroyed forever, it will the end of sin in the universe forever. There will be no more death ever again. Jesus will have destroyed death eternally.

He also destroyed death eternally for those who accepted His gift of salvation because they will live forever with Him after He returns a second time. They should have died for the wages of sin is death. Jesus died not only the physical death, which is temporary until resurrection, but He also "tasted death" for everyone (Hebrews 2:9). Jesus paid the "penalty death," which is total separation from God.
Yeah, that really answer my question. Death cannot be eternal. (eternity has no begining or end). The wages of sin is death, but even you claimed that physical death is temporary. You are contradicting yourself quite a bit here.
 





Joined
Jun 1, 2018
Messages
260
Likes
283
#11
In Luke 16:19-31, Jesus tells a parable that has led to a lot of controversy. Some people believe that the teaching—a story about a rich man and a beggar who die and go to hell and heaven—is to be taken literally, and gives proof that God’s people go to heaven immediately after they die.
However, others show us that the language and setting of the story are figurative. Most scenes in the parable contradict the teachings of Scriptures, indicating that Jesus was telling the story to convey a larger truth.


The Context

Throughout history, God had named the Israelite people His own. The nation had been highly favoured by God as His children, and as the recipients of His truth.

The Jews were called to use the truth God gave them to lead other nations to God. For this reason, God placed them at the crossroads between the great nations and trade routes of that time.

However, instead of fulfilling their mission, the Jews had become self-centred, claiming salvation only for themselves. While priding themselves in their exclusivity, they had nevertheless embraced heathen teachings, including lies regarding the afterlife, but always with the provision that their heritage would get them into heaven.

In His story about Lazarus the beggar, Jesus speaks against the hypocrisy of these views.


The Lessons

Jesus told this story as a sharp rebuke to the Jewish religious leaders. In the parable, the rich man represents the Jewish nation, and the poor man represents the Gentiles.

The rich man had the knowledge of the King of kings (purple is the colour of royalty), and the means to attaining righteousness (white linen). But as the parable unfolds, Jesus turns the viewpoint of the Jewish leaders on its head by placing the rich man in "hell" and the poor man in "Abraham's bosom."

Jesus was saying that personal status does not guarantee salvation. He was telling the Jews that they could only find salvation in God’s grace, not their own works or lineage. The Jews claimed Abraham as their father (John 8:39), but in the parable "Father Abraham" was unable to help the rich man.

The New Testament states that those who are in Christ are Abraham's seed (Galatians 3:29), and that Christ came to restore the wounded and broken hearted. Only those who realize their own spiritual poverty and need for Christ can attain His blessings.

Through this story, Jesus was also revealing to the disciples their new task: to break tradition and preach the Gospel with power to the Jews and the Gentiles alike.

As each scene unfolds in the parable, it conveys a spiritual truth contrary to the mindset of the Jewish leaders. The modern trend of taking this parable literally in order to support the doctrine of hell does great injustice to the intent of the story, and causes us to miss the deeper message it holds.


Conclusion

According to the Bible, death is a state of unconscious sleep. This does not mean that there is no record in heaven of the sleeping saints. God knows our being, our very nature, and when He calls forth the sleeping saints, they rise with imperishable bodies and the characters that they have formed under His guidance.

The Biblical record of death, far from being disturbing, is comforting. Our ancestors are not watching our every mistake and feeling the pain of our wrong choices. They are blissfully unaware of unfolding events as they sleep until the day of the resurrection. If we are strengthened by these Biblical truths, the deceptive power of false teachings and miracles can have no hold over us. We will be better prepared to stand in the last days.



According to the parable, thank God it is a parable and is not literal, people in heaven and hell would be communicating for eternity. Can you imagine being in heaven while communicating and watching your loved ones being tormented in hell through eternity? It doesn't bear thinking about. Is that really heaven? Doesn't the Bible say God will wipe away all suffering when the righteous get to heaven? Is God that cruel? The parable also contradicts what the Bible says about heaven and hell. Another thing is it talks about one drop of water cooling the tongue of a person who's in torment. Well that's obviously an exaggeration. And then finally, it says that the beggar who dies and is saved goes to Abraham's bosom. There's no other Scripture anywhere that says that all the saved go to the bosom of Abraham. If that's true, then he has one very large bosom because there have been a lot of saints who have died through the ages. So there's so much symbolic language in this that if we take all of the pictures literally, we're going to come up with a very distorted picture. The lesson in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus is always missed because people use it to try and prove the state of the dead and hell.

Jesus does not contradict Himself or His word (the Bible) ever.
You can not explain it away to a born again believer in whom is called and elected. God never minced words and talked with a lot of wind, He just spoke Truth. Parables are not to explain a doctrine to people, Parables are to hide the truth to the self righteous and to enlighten the called of Christ (Matt. 13:10-18). Your teaching is a denominational doctrine....not The doctrine of the body of Christ The Rich Man and Lazarus is not a parable.
 





Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
974
Likes
1,579
#12
You can not explain it away to a born again believer in whom is called and elected. God never minced words and talked with a lot of wind, He just spoke Truth. Parables are not to explain a doctrine to people, Parables are to hide the truth to the self righteous and to enlighten the called of Christ (Matt. 13:10-18). Your teaching is a denominational doctrine....not The doctrine of the body of Christ The Rich Man and Lazarus is not a parable.
Though it may not be clear from the text itself whether this is a parable or not, the fact that if taken literally, it contradicts many others scriptures, I would have to agree with phipps that the rich man and Lazarus is a parable.

That's the problem with Christianity today. So many doctrines created based on just one passage of scripture without looking at the whole of scripture and seeing the patterns and themes to determine which interpretations are consistent and correct.
 





Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
366
Likes
484
#13
You can not explain it away to a born again believer in whom is called and elected. God never minced words and talked with a lot of wind, He just spoke Truth. Parables are not to explain a doctrine to people, Parables are to hide the truth to the self righteous and to enlighten the called of Christ (Matt. 13:10-18). Your teaching is a denominational doctrine....not The doctrine of the body of Christ The Rich Man and Lazarus is not a parable.
I didn't explain anything away. I just told the truth of the Bible. To attempt to stretch the parable of the rich man and Lazarus to cover the doctrine of hellfire is to miss the point Jesus intended to convey. The Bible speaks with unmistakable clarity on the subject of hell in many other places. Nowhere do the Scriptures teach that the wicked will continue to suffer in the fires of hell through the ceaseless ages of eternity. Rather, they will be utterly destroyed. Jesus never would have compromised the integrity of the Holy Scriptures by teaching a doctrine contrary to its own overwhelming testimony on the subject.

The truth about hell may be ascertained by examining even a few of the many Bible texts that speak directly on the subject. Before examining these, however, we must remember that “the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life.” Romans 6:23. There are only two alternatives for every soul. Those who accept Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice will live forever; those who do not accept Jesus will die. If the wicked suffered without end, eternal life—however painful—would be theirs. But we know that eternal life is available only to those who accept Jesus.

Consider these clear texts of Scripture that speak of the reward of the wicked: “But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.” Psalm 37:20.

“For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: andthe day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.” Malachi 4:1.

“And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.” Malachi 4:3.

“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew 10:28.

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” 2 Peter 3:10.

“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8.

Many other texts could be cited, but these clearly illustrate that the ultimate fate of the wicked is death. Notice that the Scriptures choose the strongest possible words to describe the complete annihilation of the wicked. In no way should these clear words be misunderstood by one who honestly desires to know truth. There is a fire reserved for the wicked, but a fire so hot it will utterly destroy all who are engulfed by it. When the fire has done its work, it will go out. Eternally burning fire is not taught anywhere in the Bible—not even in the story of the rich man and Lazarus. (Some people have wondered what the expression “for ever” means in the usage of Revelation 20:10. Other similar passages demonstrate this merely to mean as long as a person lives. See Exodus 21:6; 1 Samuel 1:22; Jonah 2:6, etc. Also, the expression “eternal fire” may be understood in terms of consequences rather than duration, as in the example of Sodom and Gomorrha in Jude 7).

It would be tragic to miss the actual point of the parable by removing it from the setting in which Jesus gave it. Let’s accept the lesson He was trying to teach and apply it to our own lives. Are we doing all we can to spread the message of salvation to others? Do we have a genuine love for those around us, and have we invited them to share our spiritual inheritance? If we hoard our riches, like the Jews of old, we will become self-righteous and corrupt. In contrast, by active, loving service, our relationship with Christ as well as with others will become stronger and more meaningful.

Let us not make scary stories the basis of our Christian experience. Instead, let us understand that “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16.

I repeat and this is very important, Jesus does not go against His own Word. The Bible is clear on the issue of the state of the dead and what will happen after He returns to the saved and the wicked. So that parable was not about the state of the dead. You are implying Jesus is a liar and contradicts Himself. This is truth of the Bible and has nothing to do with denominations. So its up to you to believe your doctrine over what the Bible clearly states. God bless.
 





Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
366
Likes
484
#14
Yeah, that really answer my question. Death cannot be eternal. (eternity has no begining or end). The wages of sin is death, but even you claimed that physical death is temporary. You are contradicting yourself quite a bit here.
Are you intent on not understanding anything? There are two deaths in the Bible. There is the physical death that people die in this world that the Bible calls sleep as I posted above. All the dead will be resurrected from that sleep after Jesus returns but at different times though depending on if they are saved or wicked. John 5:28-20, "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation." 1000 years will separate the resurrection of the saved and the wicked. Revelation 20:4-6, "And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshipped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years." The destruction of the wicked will be total and eternal; 'everlasting destruction', Paul called it in the 2 Thessalonians 1:9. This is the eternal/second and final death. Neither root not branch will be left, Satan the root, his followers the branches. The fires will totally destroy all traces of evil forever. The wicked will not be given eternal life and be preserved alive forever to be punished. They won't live forever in hell. The Bible says eternal life is only for those who believe in Jesus. The rest will perish John 3:16. The second death, not eternal life in hell, is the punishment for sin. The opposite of eternal life is eternal death. That is not hard to understand.
 





Last edited:
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
974
Likes
1,579
#15
Are you intent on not understanding anything? There arre two deaths in the Bible. There is the Phsyical death that people die in this world that the Bible calls sleep as I posted above. Then there is the eternal death that Satan and all the wicked will die after Jesus returns. The eternal death will last forever and ever. The opposite of eternal life is eternal death. The wicked will destroyed forever and never exist again forever. Is that so hard to understand?!
I understand what you are trying to say, I just don't agree with it. I don't think you understand the meaning of eternity. Eternity is not the infinite continuation of time. Eternity exists outside of time (more accurately time exists within eternity). Time is part of the temporal creation we are currently living in. Time will cease to exist. The eternal life that we are promised in scripture is not just the infinite continuation of the life we possess now. Eternal life is the life of God himself that we can possess now in the temporal realm when we walk in the power of the Spirit of God. Eternal life is not something we are granted on judgement day. We can experience it now.

There is no such thing as eternal death, as death is not an attribute of the eternal God. Eternity has no beginning. Death did not exist until Adam and Eve rebelled agaisnt God. Death has a beginning so it can't be eternal. The Bible clearly says Jesus will destroy death and hell, so how can either one of them be eternal?
 





Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
366
Likes
484
#16
I understand what you are trying to say, I just don't agree with it. I don't think you understand the meaning of eternity. Eternity is not the infinite continuation of time. Eternity exists outside of time (more accurately time exists within eternity). Time is part of the temporal creation we are currently living in. Time will cease to exist. The eternal life that we are promised in scripture is not just the infinite continuation of the life we possess now. Eternal life is the life of God himself that we can possess now in the temporal realm when we walk in the power of the Spirit of God. Eternal life is not something we are granted on judgement day. We can experience it now.

There is no such thing as eternal death, as death is not an attribute of the eternal God. Eternity has no beginning. Death did not exist until Adam and Eve rebelled agaisnt God. Death has a beginning so it can't be eternal. The Bible clearly says Jesus will destroy death and hell, so how can either one of them be eternal?
I have edited my post so I've added more information to it. Please read it fully first. What I'm telling you is biblical, if you disagree with me you disagree with the word of God. We will get eternal life only after Jesus returns and not before. The Bible tells us we shall be saved if we believe, have faith and lead a life of continued obedience to Him. Its not an experience either, its something we'll get after the return of Jesus. No one has eternal life while still in this sinful world. That is not the teaching of the Bible.
 





Joined
Jun 1, 2018
Messages
260
Likes
283
#17
Though it may not be clear from the text itself whether this is a parable or not, the fact that if taken literally, it contradicts many others scriptures, I would have to agree with phipps that the rich man and Lazarus is a parable.

That's the problem with Christianity today. So many doctrines created based on just one passage of scripture without looking at the whole of scripture and seeing the patterns and themes to determine which interpretations are consistent and correct.
That is true, but not in this case. It is a clear teaching!
 





Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
974
Likes
1,579
#18
I have edited my post so I've added more information to it. Please read it fully first. What I'm telling you is biblical, if you disagree with me you disagree with the word of God. We will get eternal life only after Jesus returns and not before. The Bible tells us we shall be saved if we believe, have faith and lead a life of continued obedience to Him. Its not an experience either, its something we'll get after the return of Jesus. No one has eternal life while still in this sinful world. That is not the teaching of the Bible.
Well this is how the Bible defines eternal life....And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent" (John 17:3).

So if you are saying that you do not yet possess eternal life then you are saying that you do not know God and Jesus Christ whom he sent. If that is the case, I'm surely not going to follow anything you believe.
 





Joined
Jun 1, 2018
Messages
260
Likes
283
#19
I didn't explain anything away. I just told the truth of the Bible. To attempt to stretch the parable of the rich man and Lazarus to cover the doctrine of hellfire is to miss the point Jesus intended to convey. The Bible speaks with unmistakable clarity on the subject of hell in many other places. Nowhere do the Scriptures teach that the wicked will continue to suffer in the fires of hell through the ceaseless ages of eternity. Rather, they will be utterly destroyed. Jesus never would have compromised the integrity of the Holy Scriptures by teaching a doctrine contrary to its own overwhelming testimony on the subject.

The truth about hell may be ascertained by examining even a few of the many Bible texts that speak directly on the subject. Before examining these, however, we must remember that “the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life.” Romans 6:23. There are only two alternatives for every soul. Those who accept Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice will live forever; those who do not accept Jesus will die. If the wicked suffered without end, eternal life—however painful—would be theirs. But we know that eternal life is available only to those who accept Jesus.

Consider these clear texts of Scripture that speak of the reward of the wicked: “But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.” Psalm 37:20.

“For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: andthe day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.” Malachi 4:1.

“And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.” Malachi 4:3.

“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew 10:28.

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.” 2 Peter 3:10.

“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8.

Many other texts could be cited, but these clearly illustrate that the ultimate fate of the wicked is death. Notice that the Scriptures choose the strongest possible words to describe the complete annihilation of the wicked. In no way should these clear words be misunderstood by one who honestly desires to know truth. There is a fire reserved for the wicked, but a fire so hot it will utterly destroy all who are engulfed by it. When the fire has done its work, it will go out. Eternally burning fire is not taught anywhere in the Bible—not even in the story of the rich man and Lazarus. (Some people have wondered what the expression “for ever” means in the usage of Revelation 20:10. Other similar passages demonstrate this merely to mean as long as a person lives. See Exodus 21:6; 1 Samuel 1:22; Jonah 2:6, etc. Also, the expression “eternal fire” may be understood in terms of consequences rather than duration, as in the example of Sodom and Gomorrha in Jude 7).

It would be tragic to miss the actual point of the parable by removing it from the setting in which Jesus gave it. Let’s accept the lesson He was trying to teach and apply it to our own lives. Are we doing all we can to spread the message of salvation to others? Do we have a genuine love for those around us, and have we invited them to share our spiritual inheritance? If we hoard our riches, like the Jews of old, we will become self-righteous and corrupt. In contrast, by active, loving service, our relationship with Christ as well as with others will become stronger and more meaningful.

Let us not make scary stories the basis of our Christian experience. Instead, let us understand that “God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16.

I repeat and this is very important, Jesus does not go against His own Word. The Bible is clear on the issue of the state of the dead and what will happen after He returns to the saved and the wicked. So that parable was not about the state of the dead. You are implying Jesus is a liar and contradicts Himself. This is truth of the Bible and has nothing to do with denominations. So its up to you to believe your doctrine over what the Bible clearly states. God bless.
Little was known in the OT about what happened after the grave. There was a reason for that. Because it was left up to Christ to bring life and immortality to light. (2 Tim. 1:9-11). Notice, He brought to light what He had already created.
 





Joined
Dec 27, 2017
Messages
366
Likes
484
#20
Well this is how the Bible defines eternal life....And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent" (John 17:3).

So if you are saying that you do not yet possess eternal life then you are saying that you do not know God and Jesus Christ whom he sent. If that is the case, I'm surely not going to follow anything you believe.
The verses you've posted do not say we have eternal life right now. They say it is eternal life to know Jesus Christ and I agree. I know if I live my life as Christ did on this earth then when He returns I will live eternally with Him. I am not living eternally now. I could backslide, I could change my mind and then I will be lost eternally.