144,000: Literal or symbolic?

[A Freeman]

John never says the 144,000 are literal. As I posted in my first post, "As an apocalyptic prophecy, Revelation 7 is full of symbols. We do not see four angels holding back the literal winds of strife, do we? (7:1). Nor do we see an angel placing a literal mark on the foreheads of God’s children (7:2-3). Just imagine what people would think if they saw us following an actual lamb or not getting married as a sign of our loyalty to God (14:4). The figures of speech in Revelation 7 are symbolic. So why would we interpret the 144,000 differently? We must be consistent in our interpretation."

There is of course symbolism in the Bible, but not everything in the Bible is symbolic. To believe that we must "consistently interpret" everything in the Bible as symbolic would render the entire Bible to be a fantasy (lie) rather than the Truth, which of course it is, and has been, since the Beginning (John 1:1).

What we NEED to do to correctly interpret any Scriptural reference is to compare it to other references made in Scripture. That's exactly what was done for you, citing multiple references to there being very few who are actually saved according to Christ (the Truth - John 14:6).

With regard to the rest of chapter 7 of Revelation in specific, you cannot "see" an angel (spirit-Being) can you? Can you see your two guardian angels?

Just because you cannot physically "see" those angels with human eyes does NOT mean that they aren't real nor does it mean they aren't doing their job. The angels always do as they've been COMMANDED to do.

There would be no logical reason to mention any number if the number itself was only "figurative". And 144,000 is given three times (plus twice more in the 8-chapter section of Revelation that was wrongly removed), along with a detailed description of how many will come from each of the 12 tribes, which likewise is notable because it omits the tribe of Dan, and doesn't specifically mention Ephraim (only Joseph, which itself is another clue).

The references in Scripture to "the Lamb of God" are symbolic, but that term is very well-defined, and thus leaves no doubt that it is Christ we are to follow, and not some physical lamb. The other reference you mention from Rev. 14:4 is actually an important lesson in reading the text literally, i.e. exactly as it is written, rather than how it has been misinterpreted by the churches, to perpetuate their lucrative business that is based upon the myth that their paying customers are "buying the stairway to heaven".

The original Greek text for Revelation 14:4 reads as follows:
(source: https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/14-4.htm)

"These are they who with not women have not been defiled pure for they are, these following the Lamb wherever He shall go. These have been redeemed out from men [as] firstfruits to God and to the Lamb."

The literal description “with not women have not been defiled” has been interpreted as “virgins” in some versions of the Bible, which is NOT what it literally says.

The fall of Adam began with listening to Eve. Eve chose to listen to Satan rather than God, and then defiled Adam by repeating the lies that Satan had told her. So Adam was corrupted by the woman when he believed her lies instead of believing God, NOT because Adam married Eve, the woman God made for him to be his help-mate.

We're told that Christ is to be the second, or last Adam, to reverse the fall of the first Adam. It therefore should be self-evident that to reverse the fall, we must learn to listen to and believe God instead of the woman, who is the “weaker vessel” and thus more easily influenced by Satan, just as Eve was.

This is exactly why it's important to look at the literal meaning of the Bible FIRST, instead of being conned into thinking it is a work of fiction (meaningless symbols). 144,000 is a very specific number, and thus could not logically be looked at as “symbolic” because it isn't.

Further, the reason for sharing this is NOT to argue with you; it is only to emphasize the importance of the warning we've been given, which is life-and-death serious.

The other two references from the missing chapters of Revelation, which have been restored in the King of kings' Bible, if you're interested:

Revelation 23:12 And the priests of the Earth will come forth and call The Book evil and make pain of the 144,000 who are of the Light. But The Priest (Heb. 6:20) will read of The Book and the Word will turn the stomach sour, but in the mouth it will be as sweet as honey (Rev. 10:7-10).

Revelation 26:9-10
26:9 "They are of the 144,000 children, the first born and are of every tongue and of every nation. For the risen Christ is in their heart, that the Word (Matt. 8:10-12) may be fulfilled".
26:10 "And they carry the sign of the Second Coming of the Lamb, which is the prophecy of the resurrection. And all will be gathered unto the Sacred City (Rev. 21:2), being of One consciousness and of One [spiritual] family".

 

[Lisa]

Totally wrong...if it’s just gentiles...do we have anything to do with the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel? You are so blind @phipps

Revelation‬ ‭7:4-8‬ ‭​

And I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: from the tribe of Judah, twelve thousand were sealed, from the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand, from the tribe of Gad twelve thousand, from the tribe of Asher twelve thousand, from the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand, from the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand, from the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand, from the tribe of Levi twelve thousand, from the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand, from the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand, from the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand, from the tribe of Benjamin, twelve thousand were sealed.

These next verses are the gentile believers...

Revelation‬ ‭7:9-15‬ ‭​

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “ Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.” And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “ A men, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.” Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them.
‭‭
‭‭

 

[phipps]

There is of course symbolism in the Bible, but not everything in the Bible is symbolic. To believe that we must "consistently interpret" everything in the Bible as symbolic would render the entire Bible to be a fantasy (lie) rather than the Truth, which of course it is, and has been, since the Beginning (John 1:1).

What we NEED to do to correctly interpret any Scriptural reference is to compare it to other references made in Scripture. That's exactly what was done for you, citing multiple references to there being very few who are actually saved according to Christ (the Truth - John 14:6).

With regard to the rest of chapter 7 of Revelation in specific, you cannot "see" an angel (spirit-Being) can you? Can you see your two guardian angels?

Just because you cannot physically "see" those angels with human eyes does NOT mean that they aren't real nor does it mean they aren't doing their job. The angels always do as they've been COMMANDED to do.

There would be no logical reason to mention any number if the number itself was only "figurative". And 144,000 is given three times (plus twice more in the 8-chapter section of Revelation that was wrongly removed), along with a detailed description of how many will come from each of the 12 tribes, which likewise is notable because it omits the tribe of Dan, and doesn't specifically mention Ephraim (only Joseph, which itself is another clue).

The references in Scripture to "the Lamb of God" are symbolic, but that term is very well-defined, and thus leaves no doubt that it is Christ we are to follow, and not some physical lamb. The other reference you mention from Rev. 14:4 is actually an important lesson in reading the text literally, i.e. exactly as it is written, rather than how it has been misinterpreted by the churches, to perpetuate their lucrative business that is based upon the myth that their paying customers are "buying the stairway to heaven".

The original Greek text for Revelation 14:4 reads as follows:
(source: https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/14-4.htm)

"These are they who with not women have not been defiled pure for they are, these following the Lamb wherever He shall go. These have been redeemed out from men [as] firstfruits to God and to the Lamb."

The literal description “with not women have not been defiled” has been interpreted as “virgins” in some versions of the Bible, which is NOT what it literally says.

The fall of Adam began with listening to Eve. Eve chose to listen to Satan rather than God, and then defiled Adam by repeating the lies that Satan had told her. So Adam was corrupted by the woman when he believed her lies instead of believing God, NOT because Adam married Eve, the woman God made for him to be his help-mate.

We're told that Christ is to be the second, or last Adam, to reverse the fall of the first Adam. It therefore should be self-evident that to reverse the fall, we must learn to listen to and believe God instead of the woman, who is the “weaker vessel” and thus more easily influenced by Satan, just as Eve was.

This is exactly why it's important to look at the literal meaning of the Bible FIRST, instead of being conned into thinking it is a work of fiction (meaningless symbols). 144,000 is a very specific number, and thus could not logically be looked at as “symbolic” because it isn't.

Further, the reason for sharing this is NOT to argue with you; it is only to emphasize the importance of the warning we've been given, which is life-and-death serious.

The other two references from the missing chapters of Revelation, which have been restored in the King of kings' Bible, if you're interested:

Revelation 23:12 And the priests of the Earth will come forth and call The Book evil and make pain of the 144,000 who are of the Light. But The Priest (Heb. 6:20) will read of The Book and the Word will turn the stomach sour, but in the mouth it will be as sweet as honey (Rev. 10:7-10).

Revelation 26:9-10
26:9 "They are of the 144,000 children, the first born and are of every tongue and of every nation. For the risen Christ is in their heart, that the Word (Matt. 8:10-12) may be fulfilled".
26:10 "And they carry the sign of the Second Coming of the Lamb, which is the prophecy of the resurrection. And all will be gathered unto the Sacred City (Rev. 21:2), being of One consciousness and of One [spiritual] family".

I didn't say everything in the Bible is symbolic. In fact most of the Bible is not symbolic. Its literal. Nor would I say everything in Revelation is symbolic either (most of it is though), but the chapters that talk about the 144,000 are symbolic so how can you pick out what is symbolic and what isn't?

For the most part, the language used to describe Revelation’s prophecies must not be interpreted literally. When we read the Bible, it is mostly literal (unless the text points to intended symbolism). But when we read Revelation, unless the text points to a literal meaning—we need to interpret it symbolically. While the scenes and events predicted are real, they usually were expressed in symbolic language.

The symbolic language of Revelation safeguards us against distorting the prophetic message. In trying to determine the meaning of the symbols used in the book, we must be careful not to impose on the text a meaning that comes out of human imagination or the current meanings of those symbols in our culture. Instead, we must go to the Bible and to the symbols found in its pages in order to understand the symbols in the book of Revelation.

In trying to unlock the meaning of the symbols in Revelation, we must remember that most of them were drawn from the Old Testament. By portraying the future in the language of the past, God wanted to impress upon our minds that His acts of salvation in the future will be very much like His acts of salvation in the past. What He did for His people in the past, He will do for them again in the future. In endeavouring to decode the symbols and images of Revelation, we must start by paying attention to the Old Testament.

In figures and symbols, subjects of vast importance were presented to John, which he was to record, that the people of God living in his age and in future ages might have an intelligent understanding of the perils and conflicts before them.

 

[phipps]

Revelation 14:12, "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus."

Generally in our endeavour to keep the commandments of God, our obedience is imperfect. However God accepts our best effort. While we are growing in grace, His righteousness cover our lack. But with the last generation who are awaiting translation, they will indeed come to the state where they fully "keep the commandments of God". This is very significant. We believe that in a special way the 144,000 will be used by heaven to vindicate the character of God.

From the beginning one of Satan's leading accusation has been that it is impossible for people to keep the law. However God exposed the falsity of Satan's accusation by showing that Jesus while on earth, in the same nature as man, perfectly kept the commandments of God. In a final demonstration, in the last generation of earth, the weakest generation of all time, God displays to the universe that these also can keep the commandments of God. This demonstration will be made when there is no mediator between God and men when the High Priestly intercession of Christ has ceased, when the Holy Spirit has completed His work on earth. This final generation, which has inherited all the weaknesses and degeneration of the ages, out of it God will take a people and make them without fault. "There is no guile in their mouth". What a demonstration of the grace of God that is going to be!

This could explain why the dragon is so enraged against the remnant and endeavours to blot them out of existence. This explains the great tribulation through which the 144,000 pass. God permits Satan to to try them to the uttermost. Satan exerts super efforts to cause them to sin bu he fails. the 144,000 justify God. They prove before the universe that God's law can be kept.

 

[Phithx]

I don't even think there are 12000 literal Jews in the world today let alone 144,000.

The Scots and Northern Irish are the descendants of Judah Zarah - true blood Judah, and British monarchy are from both Judah Zarah and Judah Pharez, and there are very few Judah Pharez in Palestine: maybe 2% of the Israeli population, which is 95%+ Japhethite Ashkenazi.

Ulster Flag with the Star of David.
The red hand (Zarah means red) inside the star (David was of Judah Pharez):
In Ireland, where the breach between the two sub-Tribes was healed with the marriage of the Judah-Pharez queen Teia Tephi/Britannia to Eochaid of Judah Zarah the high king of Ireland in 583BC.

The Jews who live in the state of Israel are mainly of European descent.

Agreed.

Thank God anyone who is faithful from around the world can be part of the 144,000.

Agreed. Rev. 7:9 Matt. 8:11-12

 

[phipps]

The Scots and Northern Irish are the descendants of Judah Zarah - true blood Judah, and British monarchy are from both Judah Zarah and Judah Pharez, and there are very few Judah Pharez in Palestine: maybe 2% of the Israeli population, which is 95%+ Japhethite Ashkenazi.

Ulster Flag with the Star of David.
The red hand (Zarah means red) inside the star (David was of Judah Pharez):
In Ireland, where the breach between the two sub-Tribes was healed with the marriage of the Judah-Pharez queen Teia Tephi/Britannia to Eochaid of Judah Zarah the high king of Ireland in 583BC.
View attachment 29906




Agreed.



Agreed. Rev. 7:9

The Scots and Northern Irish are the descendants of Judah Zarah - true blood Judah, and British monarchy are from both Judah Zarah and Judah Pharez, and there are very few Judah Pharez in Palestine: maybe 2% of the Israeli population, which is 95%+ Japhethite Ashkenazi.

Ulster Flag with the Star of David.
The red hand (Zarah means red) inside the star (David was of Judah Pharez):
In Ireland, where the breach between the two sub-Tribes was healed with the marriage of the Judah-Pharez queen Teia Tephi/Britannia to Eochaid of Judah Zarah the high king of Ireland in 583BC.

I don't know if this is true. They may very well be descendants of Judah because as I have repeatedly posted here using scripture, the Israelites and Jews have been scattered around the world for thousands of years. They intermarried with the nations they were scattered in and even took on the customs of those nations. If any Jews remained in Israel they would be very few. They wouldn't make up most of the nation of Israel today.

 

[Phithx]

I don't know if this is true. They may very well be descendants of Judah because as I have repeatedly posted here using scripture, the Israelites and Jews have been scattered around the world for thousands of years. They intermarried with the nations they were scattered in and even took on the customs of those nations. If any Jews remained in Israel they would be very few. They wouldn't make up most of the nation of Israel today.

There's lots of evidence presented at the 12 Tribes of Israel research thread https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/twelve-tribes-of-israel-info-research-thread.5480/

See you there if you like.

 

[phipps]

There's lots of evidence presented at the 12 Tribes of Israel research thread https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/twelve-tribes-of-israel-info-research-thread.5480/

See you there if you like.

The important issue for me is not who the real Israelites and their descendants are here on earth. What is important to me is who God thinks of as real Israelites. According to His Word its all those who have faith in Jesus Christ and follow and submit to His precepts. Its about "circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God." Romans 2:29.

 

[Phithx]

The important issue for me is not who the real Israelites and their descendants are here on earth. What is important to me is who God thinks of as real Israelites. According to His Word its all those who have faith in Jesus Christ and follow and submit to His precepts. Its about "circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God." Romans 2:29.

Yes agreed: the real Israelites in The End times: now, are those who are Champions of God (meaning of 'Israelite'), regardless of race (Rev. 7:9, etc.), but, to my mind, it makes it easier to aim right if the basic facts are well comprehended (Hosea 4:6 etc.).

 

[phipps]

The 144,000 stand with the Lamb.

Revelation 14:1, 4, "...a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand,...These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes."

This means that not only have they been delivered, but a glorious privilege and reward will be theirs. Will there be special rewards that God will give to His people? While we are saved by grace alone, while eternal life is a gift, while we cannot reach the Kingdom by our own works, yet for the works that we do accomplish by His grace, God will accordingly reward us in the Kingdom.

Revelation 7:15, 17, "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them...for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

This reveals the tremendous privilege that will be given to this group. They will probably be at the headquarters of God's Kingdom, "they are before the throne" and they are in "the temple". They have a position of high responsibility. They escort Christ, they are "with Him".

But what of the view that the 144,000 is a number representing "the great multitude that stand before the throne" and who have come out of great tribulation (Revelation 7:9, 14).

At first glance one may be led to draw such a conclusion but on analysing the whole chapter, the above conclusion must be completely rejected.

After introducing the 144,000 in verses 4-8, John then beholds "a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations" (verse 9). This means that this group is innumerable, they cannot be numbered. What good news that so many of the human race are going to be in the Kingdom. Today, even with our population explosion it is still possible to number the world's population. Now if the saints at the end time are so abundant that no man can number them, then saints would comprise the great majority of the world's population.

If this conclusion is correct this means that the biblical doctrine of the remnant is untenable. Do the exponents of the above view believe that God's people in the end time will be a remnant or do they believe that they will comprise of the majority of the population?

The only conclusion is that the great multitude of Revelation 7:9 comprises the saved of all ages. God's people have always been a minority, a remnant. “Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom" (Luke 12:32).

For the same reason the conjecture that 144,000 proclaim the "Loud cry" and win "the great multitude" must be rejected. If the number won in the Loud cry amounts to the innumerable group of people, who would be left to support the leaders of Babylon and persecute the great multitude?

But what of Revelation 7:13-17, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” The only ones described as having white robes are "the great multitude" (verse 9). If this were correct then the 144,000 cannot be clothed in white. This is unthinkable because the white robes represent "the righteousness of saints" (Revelation 19:8) and all the redeemed will be so clothed.

It is quite obvious as to who comprises the great multitude and from whence they have come for verse 9 says, that they are from "all nations and kindreds and people and tongues". The elder of verse 13 must be referring to a group in white robes which is distinctive. The distinction is that they "came out of great tribulation" verse 14. The Greek reads, "the great tribulation". Those who endure the final time of tribulation are "the remnant" of Revelation 12 not a "great multitude which no man can number".

 

[phipps]

Yes agreed: the real Israelites in The End times: now, are those who are Champions of God (meaning of 'Israelite'), regardless of race (Rev. 7:9, etc.), but, to my mind, it makes it easier to aim right if the basic facts are well comprehended (Hosea 4:6 etc.).

Knowledge is important. We need to have more knowledge about God and His Word because it is that that leads us to salvation. Knowing about literal Israelites and their descendants here on earth is not important in my opinion. That is not the focus of the New Covenant either.

 

[Phithx]

Knowledge is important. We need to have more knowledge about God and His Word because it is that that leads us to salvation. Knowing about literal Israelites and their descendants here on earth is not important in my opinion. That is not the focus of the New Covenant either.

More knowledge of God: agreed with that.

 

[A Freeman]

The 144,000 stand with the Lamb.

Revelation 14:1, 4, "...a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand,...These are the ones who follow the Lamb wherever He goes."

This means that not only have they been delivered, but a glorious privilege and reward will be theirs. Will there be special rewards that God will give to His people? While we are saved by grace alone, while eternal life is a gift, while we cannot reach the Kingdom by our own works, yet for the works that we do accomplish by His grace, God will accordingly reward us in the Kingdom.

Revelation 7:15, 17, "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple. And He who sits on the throne will dwell among them...for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will shepherd them and lead them to living fountains of waters. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”

This reveals the tremendous privilege that will be given to this group. They will probably be at the headquarters of God's Kingdom, "they are before the throne" and they are in "the temple". They have a position of high responsibility. They escort Christ, they are "with Him".

But what of the view that the 144,000 is a number representing "the great multitude that stand before the throne" and who have come out of great tribulation (Revelation 7:9, 14).

At first glance one may be led to draw such a conclusion but on analysing the whole chapter, the above conclusion must be completely rejected.

After introducing the 144,000 in verses 4-8, John then beholds "a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations" (verse 9). This means that this group is innumerable, they cannot be numbered. What good news that so many of the human race are going to be in the Kingdom. Today, even with our population explosion it is still possible to number the world's population. Now if the saints at the end time are so abundant that no man can number them, then saints would comprise the great majority of the world's population.

If this conclusion is correct this means that the biblical doctrine of the remnant is untenable. Do the exponents of the above view believe that God's people in the end time will be a remnant or do they believe that they will comprise of the majority of the population?

The only conclusion is that the great multitude of Revelation 7:9 comprises the saved of all ages. God's people have always been a minority, a remnant. “Do not fear, little flock, for it is your Father’s good pleasure to give you the kingdom" (Luke 12:32).

For the same reason the conjecture that 144,000 proclaim the "Loud cry" and win "the great multitude" must be rejected. If the number won in the Loud cry amounts to the innumerable group of people, who would be left to support the leaders of Babylon and persecute the great multitude?

But what of Revelation 7:13-17, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?” The only ones described as having white robes are "the great multitude" (verse 9). If this were correct then the 144,000 cannot be clothed in white. This is unthinkable because the white robes represent "the righteousness of saints" (Revelation 19:8) and all the redeemed will be so clothed.

It is quite obvious as to who comprises the great multitude and from whence they have come for verse 9 says, that they are from "all nations and kindreds and people and tongues". The elder of verse 13 must be referring to a group in white robes which is distinctive. The distinction is that they "came out of great tribulation" verse 14. The Greek reads, "the great tribulation". Those who endure the final time of tribulation are "the remnant" of Revelation 12 not a "great multitude which no man can number".

This is the delusional viewpoint that unfortunately will only be done away with on Judgment Day, when over 99.99% of the planetary population are cast into The Fire for their continued refusal to return to keeping God's Law (all but the 144,000 who are redeemed from the Earth).

It would be a FAR better use of what precious little time there is left to study, digest and begin applying The Law as if our very lives depended upon getting it right (which of course they do) rather than let one's imagination run riot (Gen. 6:5) mistakenly thinking that God won't punish us for being habitual criminals (or "sinners" if you prefer that word).

 

[A Freeman]

Knowledge is important. We need to have more knowledge about God and His Word because it is that that leads us to salvation. Knowing about literal Israelites and their descendants here on earth is not important in my opinion. That is not the focus of the New Covenant either.

Matthew 15:24 But he (Christ) answered and said, I am not sent but unto the "lost sheep" of the "House of Israel" (the Ten "Lost" Tribes of Israel).

Matthew 10:5-7
10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the "House of Israel".
10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Hosea 4:6 My people are DESTROYED for lack of My Knowledge: because thou hast rejected My Knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to Me: seeing thou hast forgotten The Law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

 

[phipps]

This is the delusional viewpoint that unfortunately will only be done away with on Judgment Day, when over 99.99% of the planetary population are cast into The Fire for their continued refusal to return to keeping God's Law (all but the 144,000 who are redeemed from the Earth).

It would be a FAR better use of what precious little time there is left to study, digest and begin applying The Law as if our very lives depended upon getting it right (which of course they do) rather than let one's imagination run riot (Gen. 6:5) mistakenly thinking that God won't punish us for being habitual criminals (or "sinners" if you prefer that word).

This is the delusional viewpoint that unfortunately will only be done away with on Judgment Day, when over 99.99% of the planetary population are cast into The Fire for their continued refusal to return to keeping God's Law (all but the 144,000 who are redeemed from the Earth).

The Bible does not say that only the 144,000 will be redeemed from this earth at the end time. They are a special group of people who God will use to spread the Word to every part of the world.

Revelation 7:9, "After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands," So in addition to the 144,000, we see here the great multitude of the redeemed, “which no one could number,” gathered from every nation. In their hands they have palm branches, a symbol of victory over the world and sin, and they are clothed with “white robes” which represent Christ’s righteousness.

It would be a FAR better use of what precious little time there is left to study, digest and begin applying The Law as if our very lives depended upon getting it right (which of course they do) rather than let one's imagination run riot (Gen. 6:5) mistakenly thinking that God won't punish us for being habitual criminals (or "sinners" if you prefer that word).

I will use my precious little time to study all of God's Word and that includes the law. I will also try to apply what I study into my life and develop the character through having a personal relationship with God through sanctification. I pray that I get in line with Christ's teaching in my daily life.

And where have I said God won't punish the wicked? I don't believe I've posted anything about that subject in this thread. This thread is specifically about the 144,000. I have posted on the subject of hell and where it will be located. Hell is where God is going to punish the wicked, the Bible is clear about that. Also if we are habitual sinners and do not repent, we will be punished in hell and then die eternally. I am a Bible Christian and believe the entire Bible. Don't assume you know everything I believe when you haven't even read most of what I've posted here! And if there is one thing I don't do is let my imagination run riot when it comes to the Word of God. I prefer to study it and know exactly what it says and means.

 

[phipps]

Matthew 15:24 But he (Christ) answered and said, I am not sent but unto the "lost sheep" of the "House of Israel" (the Ten "Lost" Tribes of Israel).

Matthew 10:5-7
10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the "House of Israel".
10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The Kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Hosea 4:6 My people are DESTROYED for lack of My Knowledge: because thou hast rejected My Knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to Me: seeing thou hast forgotten The Law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Matthew 10:5-7 and 15:24 are not talking about the ten lost tribes of Israel. Jesus was talking about the lost of Israel at the time when He was here on earth.

In Matthew 10 Jesus told the apostles not to preach to the Gentiles or Samaritans but to preach "to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." The ten lost tribes didn't exist then or now. Rather Jesus wanted the apostles to preach to the Jews then because He knew as a nation of chosen people, they had a very short time left. Not long after that, they stopped being a chosen people as Jesus told them Himself.

Matthew 21:43-44, “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

The knowledge that is being spoken of is the knowledge of God and His Word. To know God is to know and follow His law. We are to seek knowledge that leads to to light and life eternal. Knowing who the Israelites are and their descendants and where they live on earth is not light that leads to eternal life is it?

Jesus said this: "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent." (John 17:3).

2 Peter 1:2-7, "Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love."

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I wonder if anyone has considered it might be both literal and symbolic? I guess time will tell!!

 

[phipps]

I wonder if anyone has considered it might be both literal and symbolic? I guess time will tell!!

Well some Christian scholars think the actual number of the 144,000 is literal while the rest of the chapters they are written in are symbolic.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Well some Christian scholars think the actual number of the 144,000 is literal while the rest of the chapters they are written in are symbolic.

I have discussed with Christian scholars of all types... I think this one may end up making more sense in the rear-view morror!

 

[TokiEl]

I will use my precious little time to study all of God's Word and that includes the law.

What is the law according to Jesus ?


Luke 10 25One day an expert in the law stood up to test Him. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26“What is written in the Law?” Jesus replied. “How do you read it?”

27He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’ and ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”

28“You have answered correctly,” Jesus said. “Do this and you will live.”



Matthew 22 34And when the Pharisees heard that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, they themselves gathered together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested Him with a question: 36“Teacher, which commandment is the greatest in the Law?”

37Jesus declared, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”



Common folk sense is the law according to Jesus.