On the Trinity:

[Lisa]

Dear Lisa, Thank-you for your reply.

How do I explain to you what is essentially much easier for men to grasp than for women.

Women comprehend other things, but that we are not our bodies seems definitely much easier for men to comprehend. This picture gives a big clue https://deuteronomy4verse2.wordpress.com/2014/08/09/adams-apples-in-his-neck/

That's why all the Prophets were men.

I'm not trying to insult you with the below quote; because men are not innocent in this Earth Prison transaction (Psalm 22:28), but I know that I'm not this body, and in my long years I haven't yet come across a woman that really gets that statement.

1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

When you can submit your opinion to a man's opinion - obviously you need to choose carefully - you should begin to have a wider comprehension.

You’re welcome.

Are you trying to say that women who give birth know that we are also our bodies and men who don’t can‘t grasp that? God made it clear that we are also our bodies...

Psalms‬ ‭139:13-17‬ ‭
For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God! How vast is the sum of them!​

‭‭

I’m not sure that’s why all prophets are men..but that God created man first and made women after as a helper.

‭‭I don‘t see anywhere where it says that the earth is a prison in this verse..

Psalms‬ ‭22:28‬ ‭
For the kingdom is the LORD’S And He rules over the nations.​

So, Adam not being deceived still ate the fruit he wasn’t supposed to eat...and you are trying to say that he is better than his wife? And that your thoughts are better than mine just because you are a man? Lol...ok.

 

[Lisa]

Thanks for clearing that up. The odd thing is, I almost, with the emphasis, in this case, on almost, understand this statement .

Lol...no doubt.

One must get it right after all. There is a God but He is three different parts to that one. You want me to explain the egg analogy again?

 

[Artful Revealer]

Psalm 82, to be precise. I'm familiar-- and it isn't an argument I've rejected.

​

PSALM 82:1,6-7​

God presides in the divine assembly;​

He renders judgment among the gods...​

I have said, Ye are gods;​

and all of you are children of the most High.​

​

But ye shall die like men...​

The 70 sons in Exodus-- you mean Jacob's descendants? I don't see the correlation, there. Overall... I don't see it as an either / or thing. I still believe, based on the text, Jehovah (or I AM) is triune in nature-- that has nothing to do with the divine assembly.

I never made a connection with Jacob and his 70 descendants, but it sure is interesting. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

With regards to Jehovah (whose name is in itself a 7th century AD Masoretic invention, and that's being generous) being triune in nature, I can only repeat myself: the triune nature of God is a Christian revelation given to the world in the Gospel. There is absolutely no reference to the Father - Holy Spirit - Son in old testament scripture.

It's just wishful thinking on behalf of the Judeo-Christians.

 

[Phithx]

You’re welcome.

Are you trying to say that women who give birth know that we are also our bodies and men who don’t can‘t grasp that? God made it clear that we are also our bodies...

Psalms‬ ‭139:13-17‬ ‭​

For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb. I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; Wonderful are Your works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden from You, When I was made in secret, And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; And in Your book were all written The days that were ordained for me, When as yet there was not one of them. How precious also are Your thoughts to me, O God! How vast is the sum of them!​

‭‭

I’m not sure that’s why all prophets are men..but that God created man first and made women after as a helper.

‭‭I don‘t see anywhere where it says that the earth is a prison in this verse..

Psalms‬ ‭22:28‬ ‭​

For the kingdom is the LORD’S And He rules over the nations.​

So, Adam not being deceived still ate the fruit he wasn’t supposed to eat...and you are trying to say that he is better than his wife? And that your thoughts are better than mine just because you are a man? Lol...ok.

King of kings' Bible http://JAHTruth.net/kofk-free/Bible Psalms 22:28 For the Kingdom [is] the "I AM"'s: and He [is] the Governor among the nations (of this prison planet).

 

[Artful Revealer]

Unless you kindly do it for me, and then gratis, I must patiently await an English translation of this, what sounds to me, based upon some reviews, fascinating book. At any rate, given that we like to SCUBA dive in the same coral reefs, even if I am linguistically handicapped in this case, I bring it to your attention. As I understand, the (Catholic ?) author traces a possible Ebionite link to Islam, something I have long surmised.

Haven't heard of this book and although I would have no problems learning its contents, the fact the book is for sale in the local FNAC resellers when most of the books I am interested in are categorically blacklisted by that same reseller, I have a feeling the information held within doesn't pose a big problem to the publishing committees who let it slip through censorship.

I don't exclude the possibility of an Ebionite link to Islam however and would gratefully accept any information you can provide.

 

[Serveto]

Haven't heard of this book and although I would have no problems learning its contents, the fact the book is for sale in the local FNAC resellers when most of the books I am interested in are categorically blacklisted by that same reseller, I have a feeling the information held within doesn't pose a big problem to the publishing committees who let it slip through censorship.

I don't exclude the possibility of an Ebionite link to Islam however and would gratefully accept any information you can provide.

Thanks for the background on the publisher. I appreciate your instincts and understand your precautions vis-a-vis censorship.

I have nothing historically concrete, only hunches, regarding possible linkage from the Ebionites to Islam and was thus hoping to maybe find something more definitive in the above-referenced, presumably peer-reviewed, book. The search for what might not exist continues.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

This Jewish guy ended up asking “what’s Jesus doing in my Bible?”

 

[TokiEl]

Thanks for so glibly clearing that up, or for at least somewhat humorously trying to do so. But, again, and depending upon which translation one prefers, if Jesus, as you say, is not, it sounds as though God may be in (pick a card) hell, Tartarus, Sheol, depths, the celestial basement, etc ...

"If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there." (KJV, Psalms 139:8)

Question: in this case, who is the "Thou," and is Thou comprised of three persons of one substance, or something like that"?

Anybody who don't want Jesus Christ as God... can go to hell.

This is a truth as He has been given all authority in heaven and on earth from the Father.

So it's only in hell one can escape the authority of Jesus Christ.

Of course the Father's presence is also in hell as fire.


I'm just saying as objectively as i can that there is no place in heaven and on earth where one can escape the Godship of Jesus Christ...so hell is the only other option.

 

[TokiEl]

View attachment 27295 that looks like a winged snake.

Maybe don't use this font in the future?
If this is how it was originally written though... I might need to reconsider my beliefs, LOL

The point is that God's name was originally written in a pictograph script as an arm and a person and a nail and a person.

 

[Stina]

The point is that God's name was originally written in a pictograph script as an arm and a person and a nail and a person.

I know, I've seen it written before and know what it's supposed to mean, I just haven't seen that pictograph in this particular style before, which I frankly find unnerving.
I really hope that this version of that pictograph is stylized and not how they actually wrote it from the beginning.

 

[TokiEl]

I know, I've seen it written before and know what it's supposed to mean, I just haven't seen that pictograph in this particular style before, which I frankly find unnerving.
I really hope that this version of that pictograph is stylized and not how they actually wrote it from the beginning.

It looks like they wrote it like that... and as the more palpable stickman.


https://earlysemitic.weebly.com/alphabet-evolution.html

 

[Stina]

https://earlysemitic.weebly.com/alphabet-evolution.html

I love you for showing me this site, thank you. You've made my day

 

[A Freeman]

Trinitarians admit that there is no way to understand the Trinity and it's impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain.

The disgusting Christians at Christianity.com says this...
All Christians believe the doctrine of the Trinity. If you do not believe this—that is, if you have come to a settled conclusion that the doctrine of the Trinity is not true—you are not a Christian at all. You are in fact a heretic. Those words may sound harsh, but they represent the judgment of ...

This is the doctrine in a nutshell...

Basic Definition: Christians worship one God who eternally exists in three persons, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, all of whom are fully God, all of whom are equal. Jesus is both God the Father and the holy spirit. The holy spirit is both God and Jesus. God is both the holy spirit and Jesus. Etc. The three are all knowing, all powerful, and everywhere. (Omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent)

Then, they illogically go on to say Jesus is not God, Jesus is not the holy spirit, the holy spirit is not Jesus, the holy spirit is not God, etc. I'm not kidding, as you will see in the author's page in the link below

It wasn't until 451, at the Council of Chalcedon that, with the approval of the Pope, the Nicene/Constantinople Creed was set as authoritative. Debate on the matter was no longer tolerated; to speak out against the Trinity was now considered blasphemy, and such earned stiff sentences that ranged from mutilation to death. Christians now turned on Christians, maiming and slaughtering thousands because of a difference of opinion....and that's the way the devil wanted it!​

Trinity is right up there with pre-trib with fabricated and contradictory teachings. Trinity is a Catholic doctrine devised in the 4th century. Yet Protestants who have accepted it have nothing good to say about Catholicism and even call Rome the whore of Babylon and a cult.

I've studied the doctrine enough and would put myself up to a debate with anyone on the subject of Trinity. The problem with blogs and forums is that my replies get removed and I get banned for being non-Trinitarian. Once they see they've been debunked, they send me on my way along with my replies. I have made my mind up on the Trinity doctrine.
I believe Jesus when he said the Father is greater. I believe him when he said he doesn't know the day or hour of his return. I believe him when he says he can do nothing on his own. I also believe him when he said blasphemy against him will be forgiven but blasphemy against the holy spirit will not. If they were the same person blasphemy against one would be blasphemy against the other. Other issues I have with Trinity is IF the holy spirit is a separate person "why doesn't the holy spirit have a name, and why isn't he found in or around the Throne of God?"

Here's a list of scriptures Trinitarians use to support the doctrine.
John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
That verse simply states that Jesus existed before Abraham and nothing else.

Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
It's absurd to claim a co-equal trinity is implied and several trinitarians do not believe this verse identifies Jesus is God.

The issue here is punctuation. Paul did not use modern types of punctuation. It was added by Trinitarian translators wherever they wanted to prop up their already preconceived belief of the Trinity. The verse can be read like this...

1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

That's another verse that's completely distorted by Trinitarians. The subject of the verse is, "him that is true." So let me clarify this for you.

The word 'even'..."EVEN in his Son Jesus Christ" is NOT in the original text. It was added by the KJV translators. The word IN..."even IN his Son Jesus Christ" is the word BY AND WITH. It's worded like this in the interlinear and the way it should be understood...

We know the Son of God is come and has given us an understanding, that we may know the true one, (God the Father) and we are in him that is the true one, (God the Father) BY his son Jesus Christ.

What is being said here is that for us to be in “him that is true” we have to go through the Son, “him that is true” is the father, and the only way to be in the Father is through the son.

Jesus says the same thing in John 17:3...
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, AND Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
This is biggest trinitarian cop-out there is..
That is because Jesus Christ is both fully God and fully man at the same time.

They answer questions by quoting a tenet of the Trinity doctrine. If Jesus is BOTH fully ‘God and fully man AT THE SAME TIME’, he would know the day and hour of his return. Either he knew, or he forgot, or he didn’t know!
Then they use Colossians 2:9 says: “For in him the whole fullness of deity DWELLS bodily.”

The word ‘dwells’ is in present tense, so Paul is referring to the resurrected Christ. The KJV uses the word ‘Godhead’ which is better translated ‘deity or divinity’ (or Godship) and it’s in the singular. That doesn’t support a triunity of beings. The present tense means Paul is speaking of the risen Christ. i.e. the spirit Christ received in the resurrection. This does NOT refer to deity of his earthly body. Neither does the word ‘deity’ infer a trinity or that Jesus is fully God the Father.
Colossians 2:9 means the abundance of divinity dwells in Christ resurrected heavenly body. God has given to Jesus all the plentitude and abundance of godship and mightiness so that he “is the head of all principality and power.” This in no way implies a Trinity.
(KJV)
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:”

Triitarians say Jesus is omniscient like God is in John 16:30.
John 16:30 “Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.”
The word ‘things’ is not in the original text, and the interlinear words it like this…
“We perceive that you perceive all.” The context is that his disciples finally saw and understood that Jesus came forth from the Father. They no longer doubted Jesus came from God and believed in his divine mission. By no means does this imply that Jesus is omniscient or that he’s God the Father. Jesus does NOT know everything God the Father knows.

We should also take into account Paul’s usage of the word ‘pas’ or ALL. ‘Pas’ is often used in a limited sense. It’s actually the word ‘individually.’ When it is used without the article, which is the case here, it means Jesus knows all types and a variety of things.” Note: “We are sure” and “knowest” are the same Greek word eidō.
It could be interpreted like this,
“Now we see (are convinced) that you perceive all types of things and no man needs to ask if we believe that you came from God.”
They quote Luke 2:52 in an attempt to prove Jesus is omniscient.
“And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.”
That verse disproves the Trinity doctrine! If Jesus is fully God, there’s no need for him “TO INCREASE” in wisdom and stature! Trinitarians refuse to see their illogical contradictions.
The word ‘favor’ is the word GRACE. God’s good pleasure was upon Christ. If Christ was “fully God” there would be no need for him to “fully develop.” The most illogical presumption of Trinitarians is that Jesus is “fully God and fully man”.
One Trinitarian link makes these contradictory, illogical, and incoherent statements…
“But the Father is not the Son or the Holy Spirit and the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit.”
…”that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God.”
“With respect to his divine nature he knows all things and with respect to his human nature he does not know all things. Both of these things are true at the same time with respect to his distinct natures.”
As well as this….
“Jesus can say that the Father is greater than him in John 14:28 because he is fully human as we are and deity is greater than humanity.”
Those statement don’t confront or answer the questions non-trinitarians asked. Too often the trinitarian cop-out response is, “both of these things are true at the same time with respect to his distinct natures.” If that were true, then Jesus would know the day or hour of his return!
Jesus said, “The Father is Greater.” Either He IS or He ISN’T! Jesus said the Father IS greater. I believe Jesus!
Trinitarian's say....
“With respect to his divine nature, he is equal with God (Heb 1:2-3)”
KJV…
“But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.”
That would be a fabrication of the Trinitarian KJV interpreters of the passage which has a host of mistakes. Look at the verse…
Hebrews 1:2-3 comes from Psalm 45:6 and is completely misrepresented in the KJV of Hebrews 1:8.
Psalm 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness;
The Jewish Publication Society reads it like this from the Septuagint…
“Thy throne given of God is for ever and ever; a sceptre of equity is the scepter of thy kingdom.”
(which may be a reference to Solomon)
NOTE: In Hebrews 1:8, the words, “He saith” is an addition of the Trinitarian KJV translators.
In the interlinear it worded like this…
Yet toward the Son the Throne of you God is forever a rod of rigteousness of your kingdom.
Or like this…
Hebrews 1:8….
“But with regard to the son, the Throne of God is forever and ever a scepter of his righteousness.
That verse does not say Jesus is God NOR does it imply a Trinity whatsoever.
Jesus is never called “God the Son, and he is never called Almighty God.” 1 Corinthians 8 shows a distinction between God the Father and Jesus Christ the Lord. They are NOT the same person or equal in any way….
For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”— yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. 1 Corinthians 8:5,6.
Trinitarians quote Philippians 2:6-7 and John 1:1-3, 14.
QUOTE VERSE

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Trinitarians can’t agree on the interpretation of that word or the passage. Most trinitarians admit the word "morphē" describes the EXTERNAL appearance or GLORY of Christ. NOT his internal attributes!

John 1:1-3, 14 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
V. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

There are 70 ways to interpret John 1:1-3. The word "WORD" is 'saying.' Vines says, "a word or saying," also means, "an account which one gives by word of mouth.
It's more logical to interpret the word "WORD" as the speech of God, NOT JESUS!
According to Thayer's the word WITH means, "to the advantage of," toward, or "pertaining to" or "nearness at."
...and the word was with God.

Better understood like it is in the interlinear, "and God was the spoken word."
In the beginning was God's spoken Word, and the spoken word was to God's advantage, and God was the spoken word. V. 14 And the spoken word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Trinitarian's also use Joel 2:32 and Romans 10:13: to say Paul applies the divine name YHWH.
Romans 10:13 doesn’t use the word Yahweh. The word ‘Lord’ in Roman’s 10:13 is the word “kyrios” and it is NOT the Greek equivalent to Yahweh! To say such a thing is a complete Trinitarian fabrication. The context in Romans 10:13 is not Jesus but God the Father anyway. The word Lord/ kyrios is used 748 times in the NT and it implies a variety of ‘masters’. Like here in Mathew 10:24-25,

“The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord/kyrios. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord/kyrios.”

Jesus is called “god” in the bible. The KJV errantly capitalizes it. But, so is Satan, angels, Moses, people, the spiritual leaders of Israel, and pagan deities.

The true Jesus is isn’t fully God. He said so himself! He also said,
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Jesus also said,
“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”

“Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.”

Trinitarians also use John 5:18-19 to say Jesus is equal to God, but a simple lok at the text shows different.
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

The Jews sought to kill Jesus because he said God was his Father. Their presumption was by saying that their presecption was that Jesus was equating himself with God. But look at Jesus' reply, he rebukes them for saying such a thing...

Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Verses that debunk the trinity that show the doctrine is a major contradiction...

John 20:17 “I ascend to my Father and your Father, and my God and your God."
John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

There is no trinity for many simple reasons. The 'Holy Spirit' as described by Trinitarians is not found in or around the throne of God in Revelation 1:4, 3:1, 4:5, and 5:6 .

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Revelation 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Revelation 4:5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Nice job on the OP exposing the pagan trinity, which is a Roman Catholic invention, by their own admission.

“Our opponents sometimes claim that no belief should be held dogmatically which
is not explicitly stated in scripture ... But the Protestant Churches have
themselves accepted such dogmas, AS THE TRINITY, for which there is no such
precise authority in the Gospels,” — (Assumption of Mary, Life magazine, Oct 30,
1950, p. 51)

Source: http://www.trinitytruth.org/the-trinity-doctrine-exposed.html#Part15

From the Athanasian Creed: "Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is
necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep
whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the
catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity...

...This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he
cannot be saved."

The doctrine of the Trinity is the central Catholic Dogma, that Catholics are
obliged to believe.

“He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.”
-the Athanasian Creed"

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed

 

[Artful Revealer]

@A Freeman

Is Jesus Christ God?

 

[A Freeman]

@A Freeman

Is Jesus Christ God?

No, and He never claimed to be.

 

[Artful Revealer]

No, and He never claimed to be.

Does He need to claim it in order for it to be true?

 

[A Freeman]

Does He need to claim it in order for it to be true?

Shouldn't numerous claims by Christ Himself that He is NOT God be considered sufficient proof to end any debate on the subject?

Similarly, does anyone actually think Father (God) would pretend to be someone else? Or in particular, something Father (Who is Christ's God as well) said He would NEVER be?

Numbers 23:19 God [is] NOT a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do [it]? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?

 

[Artful Revealer]

Shouldn't numerous claims by Christ Himself that He is NOT God be considered sufficient proof to end any debate on the subject?

Similarly, does anyone actually think Father (God) would pretend to be someone else? Or in particular, something Father (Who is Christ's God as well) said He would NEVER be?

Numbers 23:19 God [is] NOT a man, that He should lie; neither the son of man, that He should repent: hath He said, and shall He not do [it]? or hath He spoken, and shall He not make it good?

Numbers is irrelevant here because Christian revelation came with the Gospel.

Where did Christ say He is not God?

 

[A Freeman]

Numbers is irrelevant here because Christian revelation came with the Gospel.

How would calling God a liar somehow be considered irrelevant?

Where did Christ say He is not God?

Jesus referring to Himself over 80 times in the Gospels as the “Son of Man” (something God specifically said He could NEVER be, which is why Numbers 23:19 IS relevant and ties directly to the Gospels).

Matthew (30): 8:20, 9:6, 10:23, 11:19, 12:8, 12:32, 12:40, 13:37, 13:41, 16:13, 16:27, 16:28, 17:9, 17:12, 17:22, 18:11, 19:28, 20:18, 20:28, 24:27, 24:30, 24:37, 24:39, 24:44, 25:13, 25:31, 26:2, 26:24, 26:45, 26:64

Mark (14): 2:10, 2:28, 8:31, 8:38, 9:9, 9:12, 9:31, 10:33, 10:45, 13:26. 13:34, 14:21, 14:41, 14:62,

Luke (26): 5:24, 6:4, 6:22, 7:34, 9:22, 9:26, 9:44, 9:56, 9:58, 11:30, 12:8, 12:10, 12:40, 17:22, 17:24, 17:26, 17:30, 18:8, 18:31, 19:10, 21:27, 21:36, 22:22, 22:48, 22:69, 24:7

John (11): 1:51, 3:13, 3:14, 5:27, 6:27, 6:53, 6:62, 8:19, 12:23, 12:34, 13:31


References to Christ as the Son OF God (47 + more in the Old Covenant)

Matthew (8): 4:3, 4:6, 8:29, 14:33, 26:63, 27:40, 27:43, 27:54

Mark (3): 1:1, 3:11, 15:39

Luke (6): 1:35, 4:2, 4:9, 4:40, 8:28, 22:70

John (10): 1:34, 1:49, 3:18, 5:25, 9:35, 10:36, 11:4, 11:26, 19:7, 20:30

Acts (2): 8:37, 9:20

Books with single references (5): Galatians 2:20, 2 Corinthians 1:19, Romans 1:4, Ephesians 4:13, Revelation 2:18

Hebrews (4): 4:14, 6:6, 7:3, 10:29

1 John (7): 3:8, 4:15, 5:5, 5:10, 5:12, 5:13, 5:20

Also, there are two additional references to Christ-Jesus being the Son of THE Most High or THE Highest in the Gospels, and at least three more references made by Father to His Anointed (His Christ) as His Son.

Mark 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, [thou] Son OF the Most High God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son OF the Highest: and THE Lord God his Father shall give unto him the Throne of David:

And in Psalms, where Father (God, the Most High) refers His Anointed (His Christ) as His Son: Psalm 2:7, 2:12, Dan. 3:25.

Also of interest is the designation of the other angels, both in heaven and here on earth, as “the sons of God”, “children of the Most High” or “sons of the Living God”, etc.:

Genesis 6:2-7, Job 1:6, 2:1, 38:7, Psalm 82:6, Hosea 1:10, John 1:12, Romans 8:14-19, Philippians 2:15, 1 John 3:1-2

REFERENCES TO CHRIST AS “GOD THE SON”: ZERO (0)

The word “of”, by definition,indicates the origin or derivation of something, e.g. a Son OF God.

Common-sense: A Father ALWAYS comes BEFORE the Father's Son, just as a Son ALWAYS is descended FROM the Son's Father. A Son is the offspring of his Father.


There are also 52 references in the Gospels to Christ being sent by God [not to do his own (Christ's) will, but the will of Him (Father) Who sent him]:-

Matthew (3): 10:40, 15:24, 21:37

Mark (2): 9:37, 12:6

Luke (6):4:18, 4:26, 4:43, 9:48, 10:16, 20:13

John (41): 3:17, 3:34, 4:34, 5:23, 5:24, 5:30, 5:36, 5:37,5:38, 6:29, 6:38, 6:39, 6:40, 6:44, 6:57, 7:16, 7:28, 7:29, 7:33, 8:7, 8:9, 8:17, 8:20, 8:33, 9:4, 10:36, 11:42, 12:44, 12:45, 12:49, 13:16, 13:20, 14:24, 15:21, 16:5, 17:3, 17:18, 17:21, 17:23, 17:25, 20:21


There are also multiple times where Christ, either directly or through the mouth of Jesus, specifically called Father His God.

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?that is to say, MY God (1),MY God (2), why hast Thou forsaken me? (Eno. 89:20; Psalm 22; Isaiah 52:13-54:1; Sura 4:157-8.)

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] MY God (3), and your God.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the Temple of MY God (4), and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY God (5), and the name of the city of MY God (6), [which is] New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY God (7) and [I will write upon him] my NEW name.

It should be self-evident that God doesn't have a God, or He wouldn't be God, by definition.

It should be self-evident that God doesn't have a God, or He wouldn't be God, by definition.

 

[Artful Revealer]

Your insistance on using Numbers supports what I believe, that the Gospel logically doesn't follow the Torah.

Forget the Torah. And don't give me a day's worth of homework. Give me one verse, independent from the Torah, where Christ says He's not God.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] MY God (3), and your God.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the Temple of MY God (4), and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of MY God (5), and the name of the city of MY God (6), [which is] New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from MY God (7) and [I will write upon him] my NEW name.

It should be self-evident that God doesn't have a God, or He wouldn't be God, by definition.

Jesus is also man and the man Jesus has a God.