Once Saved Always Saved?

[TokiEl]

Jesus died to pay for our sins, and since you claim you do not sin, (a lie, which is a sin, btw) what do you even need Jesus to save you from??

How can you even ask such a question ?

Did you think i was without sins as a young man growing up with no knowledge of God ?

You keep dodging my question.....are you saved?

Why would i not be saved ?

I know Jesus and He knows me.

And i do as He says... do you ?

 

[Daciple]

It just seemed to me that being lax on sin would be something osas would do. But I did forget that osas figures those people not really saved anyway.

Again I dont understand why you or anyone else thinks that because one believes they are saved forever would cause one to be lax on sin. Unless you tell me the real reason you dont Sin is because you are scared to lose your Salvation, then there is no difference between us as to why we dont Sin..

I would add some of the verses I found but you would only ignore what they said..so I feel like I really can’t really add to the conversation here. And what I mean about ignore is that you bring in your mountain of words and add other verses that you think prove that what the verse I found is wrong and that becomes very frustrating to me as I am limited to what you say.

I mean this would go both ways Lisa, you do understand that correct? You "ignore" everything I post and then bring verses you think prove what I have said is incorrect.

I dont get frustrated by it, because I understand that is how a debate works. I dont expect you to change your mind, however I do want to influence or give counterpoints to what you say to those who havent made up their minds concerning this, or havent entered into the debate. Thats how a forum works, IDK why it frustrates you so much...

Grieving the Holy Spirit is essentially continuing to sin isn’t it?

But you dont grieve the Holy Spirit if you are Lost, only Saved people with the Holy Spirit in them grieve Him, so I dont understand how this pertains to Losing your Salvation.

If someone could Lose their Salvation, then that means the Holy Spirit would leave them all together, and therefore they wouldnt feel conviction or condemnation when they Sin, it would be just like before when Sin not only didnt really matter it was actually pleasurable.

I think people do hate their sins but don’t make the correlation. The alcoholic hates his sin but can’t control it so he drinks some more. I don’t know that everyone is happy in their sins.

I can understand what you mean, but I believe that there is a distinction between how Sin affects a Lost person vs a Saved person, I can testify to this from experience. I believe all those who are Saved now and didnt get Saved as a Child can testify to the difference in being Lost and how Sin affected them vs after Conversion.

I don’t remember an experience but that doesn’t mean I don’t have any experiences with God but all you care about is that I don’t remember an experience. To me that’s kind of silly and limiting.

I am not saying you dont have any experiences with God, I am saying that in this specific incidence you can not testify to the difference between being Lost and how Sin effected you and being Saved and how Sin effected you, if there is a difference or not.

I don’t know, when we first came back to this site, you had your own thread where you practically boasted that you went back to your old life. Is that what you are talking about how someone handles sin after conversion?

Practically boasted? Is that really how you see it? Your perspective is skewed, it was not boasting but telling what I went thru and if you read the testimony then you would have read how incredibly miserable I was and how I was being convicted continually, until that day that I feel to my knees begging God to help me Repent!!

And guess what He did, He moved all sorts of miracles in my life. According to you, I would have Lost my Salvation, and according to what the Bible explicitly says once someone Loses their Salvation they can NOT get it back.

So what happened then? I definitely was living in Sin and totally was against God at the time. My mother died and I was completely heartbroken and angry, she was literally the only Saved person in my life. My Dad, my Wife, my Daughter were all Lost. If I was in that position where I was in Sin and directly going against God, well according to you I MUST have Lost my Salvation.

But then I cried out for God to forgive me and help me Repent, and literally 3-4 days later I run into a guy I hadnt seen in 6 years, at a Restaurant I never set foot in before in my life, who just so happened to have been Born Again and became a Preacher. Who invited me to his Church and there have seen my Wife and Child saved by the Grace of God!!

Did I lose my Salvation and get it back? Well it cant be that, and we know that God doesnt hear the prayer of Sinners (John 9:31) so what is it that had to have happened here?

I can tell you what it was, but since it doesnt agree with your preconceived ideology, you will reject it. I was Saved and had a season in my life, where due to hurt and anger I turned from God, but because I am Eternally Saved, I still had the Holy Spirit dwelling in me, convicting me and I could feel Him being Grieved until the day I cried out for Help. Then God answered my Prayers and thru that terrible valley, turned it into my Good in that both my Wife and my Child were Born Again. That time in my life sucked, but the end of it, the fact that I know my family is Saved made it all worth it.

So you explain that, was I Lost? Was I still Saved even tho I did literally what you and Toki say will cause me to Lose my Salvation? Or is my Testimony the Truth, I didnt Lose my Salvation and God never left me as He promised and He pulled me out of that situation and turned it into THE greatest ending I could have ever hoped for?

 

[TokiEl]

So you dont think you ought to study Scriptures now? You think you know all there is to know concerning Scripture?

No of course not but i know the difference between the living Spirit and words in a book.

You also are not interpreting that Scripture correctly, He literally is telling them GO BACK AND STUDY because the Scripture do tell of Him. It would be prudent for you to take into CONTEXT everything Jesus tells the Pharisees so you can understand each independent interaction.

Pharisees didn't receive the Spirit but were bible thumpers in love with their own voice and words.

As Claire and basic every Christian on the board has explained to you, no one has a problem with rebuking of Sin, at ALL. The problem is your constant conflation with WORKS and JUSTIFICATION before the Lord.

You will do what the Lord said or you will be sorry.

 

[TokiEl]

And God created all the rest of us to be doomed?

Lovely fellow, that God.

If you sin you will be doomed.

If you stop sinning you will be saved.

 

[TokiEl]

No, dont pay attention to most of what he says, he doesnt have a good grasp on Biblical Doctrine whatsoever.

God didnt create anyone to be doomed, in fact just the opposite:

I didn't say anything about God creating anyone to be doomed... but like a pharisee you act as i did.

But that said it's a matter of fact that some will be doomed.

 

[TokiEl]

There is a distinct difference in how one feels about and handles Sin before and after Conversion...

So you are still sinning... but what kind of sins are we talking about ?

 

[Daciple]

No of course not but i know the difference between the living Spirit and words in a book.

Then why act as you do when I told you that you need to study more because you seem to have a very shallow understanding of almost every Doctrine in the Word of God?

How do we get Faith?

Pharisees didn't receive the Spirit but were bible thumpers in love with their own voice and words.

The Pharisees loved to tell everyone about how great and sinless they were. The Pharisees prided themselves on their Works and all the things they did for God.

They believed that because they were doing all these "Great Works" that they were Justified before God. Then they kept telling everyone around them to stop Sinning and be like them with their "Great Works".

Who does that sound like?

You will do what the Lord said or you will be sorry.

What is the Context? Salvation or our daily walk and life?

I didn't say anything about God creating anyone to be doomed... but like a pharisee you act as i did.

Serious reading comprehensions problems there bud. I never said you said anything about God creating anyone to be doomed, Deva did and I told them the Truth and gave them the Gospel.

So you are still sinning... but what kind of sins are we talking about ?

Does it matter? I am not here to pride myself on how Sinless I am, I leave that to you.

I am here to tell everyone just how badly I need Christ, if I believed myself to be Sinless then I wouldnt really need Jesus...

You dont really need Jesus anymore, you are Perfect and Sinless according to your Words on this Forum..

 

[Daciple]

If you sin you will be doomed.

If you stop sinning you will be saved.

Dont listen to this Deva, its a lie. If you believe in Jesus in your heart and have Faith in Him that He died on the Cross to take up your Sins and the Wrath you deserve and believe that He Resurrected, then you will be Saved, just as Scriptures say.

Toki has no clue about Salvation, your Salvation isnt dependent on your ability to not Sin, Salvation is only dependent on Christs Work and your Faith in Him.

 

[TokiEl]

Then why act as you do when I told you that you need to study more because you seem to have a very shallow understanding of almost every Doctrine in the Word of God?

Jesus Christ is the Word of God.

The Word of God is not the same as the words of God.

The former is the living God and the latter is His words.

Pharisees didn't receive the Word of God.

Does it matter? I am not here to pride myself on how Sinless I am, I leave that to you.

I am here to tell everyone just how badly I need Christ, if I believed myself to be Sinless then I wouldnt really need Jesus...

You dont really need Jesus anymore, you are Perfect and Sinless according to your Words on this Forum..

You are self confessed sinner even after coming to Christ... so confess what sins you indulge in.

 

[TokiEl]

Dont listen to this Deva, its a lie. If you believe in Jesus in your heart and have Faith in Him that He died on the Cross to take up your Sins and the Wrath you deserve and believe that He Resurrected, then you will be Saved, just as Scriptures say.

Toki has no clue about Salvation, your Salvation isnt dependent on your ability to not Sin, Salvation is only dependent on Christs Work and your Faith in Him.

You will stop sinning if you are His.

 

[Allegra]

Ok I don’t know this TokiEl’s belief but as an newcomer & outsider of this forum, I think he is from a Christian Cult. His belief is very off and false.

He barely addresses and answers the questions here, he’s just throwing accusations and repeating the same sentences... this is something that people from a cult act and do.

I think he’s either an ignorant cultish boi or troll in disguise.

Just my observation.

 

[TokiEl]

Ok I don’t know this TokiEl’s belief but as an newcomer & outsider of this forum, I think he is from a Christian Cult. His belief is very off and false.

He barely addresses and answers the questions here, he’s just throwing accusations and repeating the same sentences... this is something that people from a cult act and do.

I think he’s either an ignorant cultish boi or troll in disguise.

Just my observation.

I think you're a troll.

 

[Allegra]

I think you're a troll.

Pretty much me, yes.

 

[TokiEl]

Is there not only one mediator between man and God? I'm sure you are not him. It is none of your business.

He professes to be a christian so why can't he confess what sins he indulges in ?

Is it murder or adultery or perjury or pornography or what ?

 

[TokiEl]

Dont listen to this Deva, its a lie. If you believe in Jesus in your heart and have Faith in Him that He died on the Cross to take up your Sins and the Wrath you deserve and believe that He Resurrected, then you will be Saved, just as Scriptures say.

Toki has no clue about Salvation, your Salvation isnt dependent on your ability to not Sin, Salvation is only dependent on Christs Work and your Faith in Him.

Just believe in Jesus church.

The world's greatest underachievers.

 

[TokiEl]

You're missing the point of what he's been saying.

What point ?

He says he is a christian sinner... so confess what sins we are talking about !

 

[elsbet]

He professes to be a christian so why can't he confess what sins he indulges in ?

Is it murder or adultery or perjury or pornography or what ?

Not all sins are the besetting variety-- the kind to which people are in bondage. For instance, leveling a false accusation against your neighbor is a sin... you may do it only on occasion, but is a sin, nonetheless.

 

[Allegra]

Lol I like your sense of humour.

thank

 

[TokiEl]

Not all sins are the besetting variety-- the kind to which people are in bondage. For instance, leveling a false accusation against your neighbor is a sin... you may do it only on occasion, but is a sin, nonetheless.

This forum is made up of self confessed christian sinners.

First that is a bloody oxymoron ! And second why can't self confessed christian sinners confess their sins ?

 

[TokiEl]

No . . .from what I gather all he is saying is that it is still possible for Christians to sin, given that we're still human. Jesus is the only man to ever have walked the earth and be completely perfect in following every law and edict of God. Yet he was also able to experience temptation. The difference is that once you are saved it becomes a heart and mind change -you want to please God in all things, and sin no longer holds the same guiltless pleasure it did before. We slowly become shaped and refined so we can be citizens in God's kingdom but as we are right now we are still capable of making mistakes. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak, remember?

You are talking as if you have no idea about the converting power of the Holy spirit.