Once Saved Always Saved?

[TokiEl]

Man it breaks my heart how many people here have been lead astray with their Works Based Salvation False Doctrines. They think they need to add something to Christs already Perfect Work.

You must have blotted out from your bible this saying of the Saviour...

Luke 13 23 Then one said to Him, “Lord, are there few who are saved?” And He said to them, 24 “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.


Also this saying from James you must have blotted our from your bible.

James 2 14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.


There are several more sayings from Jesus and the Apostles which demand specific attitude and action from the believers. The Saviour has also warned that many christians will be told to go away since they did not do what He said. Those christians must have thought that their attitude and action did not matter because of a grace by faith alone gospel.

 

[TokiEl]

The grace by faith only gospel is a crafty christian trap.

This gospel is very sneaky since it rightly exalts Jesus Christ but at the same time make every effort of the believers to no avail.

This gospel informs christians that their effort is an offense to God.


What amazes me is that so few Christians see through this bullshite !

 

[bible_student]

Irrespective of what you may or may not believe about this it is logical to strive and to WORK on yourself because:

9:77 You are responsible for your actions and thoughts and words, and ONLY God can forgive
you, if you are GENUINELY sorry. Just because He may forgive you, it doesn’t mean that He won’t
punish you too. So you had better really live a good life.

- The Way home or face The Fire

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, THAT shall he also reap.

 

[Lisa]

This is not a verse that deals with salvation and what one must do to be saved. In this chapter Paul is exhorting Timothy, a young preacher to be a good preacher and Paul is warning Timothy about false religion. What do you think about John 3:16 that says that whosoever believeth in him. It doesn't say believe it and is a good person. What do you think about acts 16:30 and 31 where the response is Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. What do you think about Romans chapter 4? What about Galatians 2:16 which says three times that a man is not justified by The Works of the law? Or what do you think about the last verse in Galatians that says I do not frustrate the grace of Christ for if righteousness come by the law then Christ is dead in vain. If I could save myself and you could save yourself then why did Jesus need to die? We're all Sinners we all fall short that's why we need a savior. He paid it all. Faith alone. Plus nothing minus nothing.

Before we move on from...
1 Timothy 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.

It’s more than warning about a false religion.
The Spirit...means the Holy Spirit-correct?

1explicit
adjectiveex·plic·it\ik-ˈspli-sət\
1 a : fully revealed or expressed without vagueness, implication, or ambiguity : leaving no question as to meaning or intent

So, so far we have the Holy Spirit, leaves no question as to the meaning or intent. Says that in the later times
Later times...i.e now

some will fall away from the faith.
1fall
verb\ˈfȯl\
fell\ˈfel\; fall·en\ˈfȯ-lən\; fall·ing
intransitive verb
to enter as if unawares : stumble, stray fell into error We fell into a trap.

So they stumble and fall unawares away from the faith....
What faith do you think Paul is writing about here? Judaism? Islam? Catholicism? I would say that it’s the Christian Faith since he is writing to new pastor Timothy and he is the apostle of the gentiles, the answer is the Christian Faith.

So now we have the Holy Spirit leaves no question to His meaning or intent that in later times i.e. now some Christians will stumble fall unawares away from the Christian faith.

The last bit tells how...because they paid attention
1attention
nounat·ten·tion\ə-ˈten(t)-shən; sense 4 often (ə-)ˌten(ch)-ˈhət\
1 a : the act or state of applying the mind to something

to deceitful spirits and doctrines.

Put it all together and we see that the Holy Spirit is the one who leaves no question as to His meaning or intent that in the later times i.e. now, some Christians will stumble and fall unawares from the Christian faith because they will apply their mind to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.

If you get really nit picky, this in truth is what the verse is saying and I have been saying that people who challenge the Holy Spirit by saying no that’s not what that means is calling the Holy Spirit a liar don’t ya think?

 

[bible_student]

Matthew
10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a "Sword" (Rev. 1:16).

Deeds are what shows if someone is confessing Him before men or if they are denying Christ (by not DOing what He said).

It's who a person is and what they DO which is what matters and not what they say.

7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven; ONLY he that doeth the Will of my Father which is in heaven.

That's why Paul wrote that only DOERS of The Law will be justified (Rom 2:13).

 

[Lisa]

I have thought about it some more. As theology often does, it raises a few more issues, to my mind. If all sins, past, present and future, are covered, what about those "Christians" who, in the end times, take the mark of the Beast? Will they be forgiven? If it is said that no true, genuine Christian would or could take the mark, and if that is also said of a Christian who "falls away" from the faith (of Christianity), that he or she was never a properly born again Christian, how is that argument, or response, any different, in essence, than when Muslims, for instance, say the same thing of so called "ex-Muslims" who convert to Christianity and other religions -they weren't really Muslims in the first place? That final question is just an afterthought, more of an aside, but I am most curious about my first (and, of course, anybody may answer).

You do bring up a good point about the mark of the beast. But I’m sure Thunderian will just tell you about another false doctrine, pre trib rapture. Where all us Christians now who aren’t just osas will also get a pass on having to suffer through the tribulation. The Christians who suffer through the tribulation in the pre trib view are new Christians that somehow believe in God once us Christians have been taken out before the tribulation.

So not only are they always saved God will also take them away from the worst time on the earth. Very fortuitous if you ask me, but unfortunately that is not what the Bible actually teaches. We Christians will be here to give our testimonies in the great tribulation and will certainly be tested in our faith in that we need to cling to God and not only not fall away from it but also not take the mark and trust in God, whatever may happen to us in that time. When the Bible says Christians will pay attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons...that’s it.

 

[ChristianTruther007]

Before we move on from...
1 Timothy 4:1
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.

It’s more than warning about a false religion.
The Spirit...means the Holy Spirit-correct?

1explicit
adjectiveex·plic·it\ik-ˈspli-sət\
1 a : fully revealed or expressed without vagueness, implication, or ambiguity : leaving no question as to meaning or intent

So, so far we have the Holy Spirit, leaves no question as to the meaning or intent. Says that in the later times
Later times...i.e now

some will fall away from the faith.
1fall
verb\ˈfȯl\
fell\ˈfel\; fall·en\ˈfȯ-lən\; fall·ing
intransitive verb
to enter as if unawares : stumble, stray fell into error We fell into a trap.

So they stumble and fall unawares away from the faith....
What faith do you think Paul is writing about here? Judaism? Islam? Catholicism? I would say that it’s the Christian Faith since he is writhing to new pastor Timothy and he is the apostle of the gentiles, the answer is the Christian Faith.

So now we have the Holy Spirit leaves no question to His meaning or intent that in later times some Christians will stumble fall unawares away from the Christian faith.

The last bit tells how...because they paid attention
1attention
nounat·ten·tion\ə-ˈten(t)-shən; sense 4 often (ə-)ˌten(ch)-ˈhət\
1 a : the act or state of applying the mind to something

to deceitful spirits and doctrines.

Put it all together and we see that the Holy Spirit is the one who leaves no question as to His meaning or intent that in the later times i.e. now, some Christians will stumble and fall unawares from the Christian faith because they will apply their mind to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.

If you get really nit picky, this in truth is what the verse is saying and I have been saying that people who challenge the Holy Spirit by saying no that’s. It what that means is calling the Holy Spirit a liar don’t ya think?

My response wasn't a detailed explanation of the verse. My response was simply that this particular verse was not about what you must do to be saved. Because by posing the question, the original poster insinuated that one could lose one's salvation. If the poster thinks you can lose your salvation, then he or she isn't even saved. And I don't waste time debating Bible with the heathen because the natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God-knowledge of the Bible is discerned spiritually. If the original poster can't even understand salvation, and he's definitely not going to understand the meat of the word. My other comments were very general comments about the chapter, definitely not all inclusive by any means.

 

[Lisa]

Thank you. For what my opinion on the subject is worth, and though I have always understood what you were saying from the start, I think you just presented, or re-presented, your position very clearly and well in this, your above post.

Thank you for saying that.

 

[Lisa]

My response wasn't a detailed explanation of the verse. My response was simply that this particular verse was not about what you must do to be saved. Because by posing the question, the original poster insinuated that one could lose one's salvation. If the poster thinks you can lose your salvation, then he or she isn't even saved. And I don't waste time debating Bible with the heathen because the natural man receiveth not the things of the spirit of God-knowledge of the Bible is discerned spiritually. If the original poster can't even understand salvation, and he's definitely not going to understand the meat of the word. My other comments were very general comments about the chapter, definitely not all inclusive by any means.

But did you actually read my reply and what do you think about that particular verse broken down like that?

 

[Dalit]

Once saved always saved. If you believe you could lose your salvation then you're trusting in your Works to keep you saved. You're not putting all of your faith on Jesus Christ. I suggest watching the video on YouTube by Pastor Steven Anderson called once saved always saved.

I'll be honest here. I like most of what you've posted, but I would recommend someone other than Steven Anderson. He's mean and ungracious. Maybe John MacArthur would be a better choice?

 

[Lisa]

I'll be honest here. I like most of what you've posted, but I would recommend someone other than Steven Anderson. He's mean and ungracious. Maybe John MacArthur would be a better choice?

John MacArthur who says that if you take the mark of the beast it’s ok, you’re still saved? And I agree about Steven Anderson.

 

[Dalit]

John MacArthur who says that if you take the mark of the beast it’s ok, you’re still saved? And I agree about Steven Anderson.

I didn't know he said that. Well, forget him then. :-/

 

[TokiEl]

I didn't know he said that. Well, forget him then. :-/

Joel Osteen maybe ? He has a nice smile...

 

[Dalit]

Joel Osteen maybe ? He has a nice smile...

Heck, no! Trying to think of a conservative Biblically based pastor who doesn't compromise the Word, which is becoming increasing harder these days to find. Maybe some of the good apologists like Lee Strobel, Ravi Zacharias, C.S. Lewis; maybe them? David Wilkerson seems all right.

Anyone living the high life (Osteen and his ilk, Word of Faith, NAR) are in it for the money to fund their lavish lifestyles.

 

[TokiEl]

Heck, no! Trying to think of a conservative Biblically based pastor who doesn't compromise the Word, which is becoming increasing harder these days to find. Maybe some of the good apologists like Lee Strobel, Ravi Zacharias, C.S. Lewis; maybe them? David Wilkerson seems all right.

Anyone living the high life (Osteen and his ilk, Word of Faith, NAR) are in it for the money to fund their lavish lifestyles.

There is a youtuber warningthepeople who was called out of the church by God to warn the people for free. Him and i agree.

 

[bible_student]

Hebrews
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the Knowledge of the Truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of Judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' Law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of The Covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
10:30 For we know Him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto Me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge His people.
10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the Living God.


There IS a punishment that is worse than death.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Luke 6 46Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say?

47I will show you what he is like who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them: 48He is like a man o ko houses have se, who dug down deep and laid his foundation on the rock. When the flood came, the torrent crashed against that house but could not shake it, because it was well built.

49But the one who hears My words and does not act on them is like a man who built his house on ground without a foundation. The torrent crashed against that house, and immediately it fell—and great was its destruction.”


As you see many will not do what the Lord said and so not be saved.

You keep repeating those same parallel passages from Luke & Matthew in an attempt to defend your works-based false Gospel but you do not even understand them.

Have you ever stopped to consider that if those passages you parrot seem to conflict with the hundreds of verses that clearly state that salvation is by grace through FAITH ALONE in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, that maybe—just MAYBE—YOU might be the one misinterpreting it??

 

[TokiEl]

You keep repeating those same parallel passages from Luke & Matthew in an attempt to defend your works-based false Gospel but you do not even understand them.

Jesus demands good fruits !

Have you ever stopped to consider that if those passages you parrot seem to conflict with the hundreds of verses that clearly state that salvation is by grace through FAITH ALONE in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, that maybe—just MAYBE—YOU might be the one misinterpreting it??

When passages conflict you can't just cherry pick what suits you... but must include those pesky passages to get the full picture.

 

[Thunderian]

I have thought about it some more. As theology often does, it raises a few more issues, to my mind. If all sins, past, present and future, are covered, what about those "Christians" who, in the end times, take the mark of the Beast? Will they be forgiven? If it is said that no true, genuine Christian would or could take the mark, and if that is also said of a Christian who "falls away" from the faith (of Christianity), that he or she was never a properly born again Christian, how is that argument, or response, any different, in essence, than when Muslims, for instance, say the same thing of so called "ex-Muslims" who convert to Christianity and other religions -they weren't really Muslims in the first place? That final question is just an afterthought, more of an aside, but I am most curious about my first (and, of course, anybody may answer and respond).

During this age, we are saved by faith alone. This age ends at the Rapture, and a new dispensation of faith plus works will begin, and then, yes, people can lose their salvation.

 

[TokiEl]

During this age, we are saved by faith alone. This age ends at the Rapture, and a new dispensation of faith plus works will begin, and then, yes, people can lose their salvation.

Didn't you post once that those who believe in Jesus Christ could be forgiven premeditated murder ?