Once Saved Always Saved?

[Allegra]

Yes the quenching of the Spirit is it?

It’s the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

[phipps]

Yes the quenching of the Spirit is it?

Quenching the Holy spirit is gradual as you pointed out but Jesus spoke about the unforgivable sin in Matthew 12:31-32. " “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

Its blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

 

[Lisa]

Quenching the Holy spirit is gradual as you pointed out but Jesus spoke about the unforgivable sin in Matthew 12:31-32. " “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

Its blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

Ok. Are you trying to say that you think that is part of osas? I’m not sure why you brought this up?

 

[phipps]

Ok. Are you trying to say that you think that is part of osas? I’m not sure why you brought this up?

I think its part osas. Its along the same line as quenching or grieving away the Holy Spirit to the point a person loses the capacity to repent. The Holy Spirit can be grieved away permanently. I think that is what Saul did when God cut Himself away from him. A man who was chosen by God to be king of Israel and even prophesied in God's name.

 

[Lisa]

I think its part osas. Its along the same line as quenching or grieving away the Holy Spirit to the point a person loses the capacity to repent. The Holy Spirit can be grieved away permanently. I think that is what Saul did and God cut Himself away from Saul.

I don’t know that Saul blasphemed the Spirit but he surely quenched the Spirit giving way to pride, it wasn’t one decision that did him in. Sounds like it only takes once to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and once you do, you’re done!
The falling away is due to deception, believing lies as truth and I don’t believe blaspheming the Spirit to be part of that. But I can see where it would fit in to say you can’t be once saved always saved.

 

[phipps]

I don’t know that Saul blasphemed the Spirit but he surely quenched the Spirit giving way to pride, it wasn’t one decision that did him in. Sounds like it only takes once to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and once you do, you’re done!
The falling away is due to deception, believing lies as truth and I don’t believe blaspheming the Spirit to be part of that. But I can see where it would fit in to say you can’t be once saved always saved.

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is also gradual. We are told that the Holy spirit does three things, He teaches us the things we need to know for our salvation, guides us into all truth and convicts us of sin. Saul disobeyed God for a while and completely rejected Him eventually that he could not even repent. Once we can't repent, we can't be saved. The same with Judas. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is a constant resisting of the drawing love of the Holy Spirit, so much so that you lose the capacity to hear His voice. I think that is frightening.

 

[Lisa]

Blaspheming the Holy Spirit is also gradual. We are told that the Holy spirit does three things, He teaches us the things we need to know for our salvation, guides us into all truth and convicts us of sin. Saul disobeyed God for a while and completely rejected Him eventually that he could not even repent. Once we can't repent, we can't be saved. The same with Judas. Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is a constant resisting of the drawing love of the Holy Spirit, so much so that you lose the capacity to hear His voice. I think that is frightening.

Thanks for explaining! And yes it is frightening and a lot to think about, thanks for bringing it up.

 

[Lisa]

Thanks for explaining! And yes it is frightening and a lot to think about, thanks for bringing it up.

Actually, sorry rereading what your saying and thinking about what you said...aren’t you just talking about grieving the Holy Spirit and that’s gradual.

but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
Isn’t that something different? You’re actually talking against the Spirit?

 

[Allegra]

“The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a willful, determined opposition to the present power of the Holy Spirit.”

So basically, if Holy Spirit asks us to repent, we should go on our knees and repent. It happens when I get convicted, I will ask God for forgiveness, sometimes on spot in my heart sometimes during my night prayer.
Also if Holy Spirit asks us to do something, it’s better to do His will.

If you keep failing to do so by resisting the conviction because for you "everything is already been paid and we're gucci", you're resistance will built up and you cant repent anymore because of the false assurance. That's what I think why phipps brought this up.

But I don't know. I personally always repent and it's always making me much better and closer to God. But that's probably just me because I believe everyone has different relationship with God, and each is unique to their own.

 

[Lisa]

“The blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a willful, determined opposition to the present power of the Holy Spirit.”

So basically, if Holy Spirit asks us to repent, we should go on our knees and repent. It happens when I get convicted, I will ask God for forgiveness, sometimes on spot in my heart sometimes during my night prayer.
Also if Holy Spirit asks us to do something, it’s better to do His will.

If you keep failing to do so by resisting the conviction because for you "everything is already been paid and we're gucci", you're resistance will built up and you cant repent anymore because of the false assurance. That's what I think why phipps brought this up.

But I don't know. I personally always repent and it's always making me much better and closer to God. But that's probably just me because I believe everyone has different relationship with God, and each is unique to their own.

Hello @Allegra!
Thanks for wading in

That sounds to me like quenching the Spirit to me.

What is sticking with me is the verse says that someone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit speaks against Him. So in my mind that means it’s a deliberates act...you’re trying to hurt and debase the Holy Spirit of God, it’s not inwardly like I think quenching sounds but it comes out of your mouth.

 

[Allegra]

Hello @Allegra!
Thanks for wading in

That sounds to me like quenching the Spirit to me.

What is sticking with me is the verse says that someone who blasphemes the Holy Spirit speaks against Him. So in my mind that means it’s a deliberates act...you’re trying to hurt and debase the Holy Spirit of God, it’s not inwardly like I think quenching sounds but it comes out of your mouth.

That's right it is quenching. There are many interpretation of this unpardonable sin.
Blasphemy is the action or offence of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk.

I'm still thinking that it's by saying super bad word to the Holy Spirit and His works (that's what I've always been taught) but then when I read a lot of Christians articles, they say it's like that. So I don't know tbh about this.

 

[Lisa]

That's right it is quenching. There are many interpretation of this unpardonable sin.
Blasphemy is the action or offence of speaking sacrilegiously about God or sacred things; profane talk.

I'm still thinking that it's by saying super bad word to the Holy Spirit and His works (that's what I've always been taught) but then when I read a lot of Christians articles, they say it's like that. So I don't know tbh about this.

Makes sense, Antichrist will be doing a lot of that, maybe it goes hand in hand with the antichrist spirit? I think you got it right honestly.

 

[Thunderian]

@Lisa and @phipps, how do you guys think salvation works? How does a person get saved, and what happens when they do?

What I meant is, do you understand the mechanics of salvation, and what the spiritual process is when a person gets saved? What takes place when a person accepts Jesus Christ?

I feel like if you understood this, you'd realise it's something that can't be reversed, and certainly not by anything we can do.

 

[Allegra]

Good words from Paul Washer. He's one of a few preachers that I listen to.

"Repentance is giving up to stop fighting against God, to stop attempting to gain own salvation through our own works. To literally give up and fall upon Christ. So that we say nothing in my hands I bring, simply to the cross I cling. When that seed grows in you, to the point you know that youre standing before God is 100% based and founded upon the perfect work and merit of Jesus Christ then you stand before Him with confidence. Knowing that all your sins have been atoned for and you are righteous in Christ."

"Knowing of Truth, apprehended by Faith that's leading to Joy that leads to Obedience."

 

[phipps]

What I meant is, do you understand the mechanics of salvation, and what the spiritual process is when a person gets saved? What takes place when a person accepts Jesus Christ?

I feel like if you understood this, you'd realise it's something that can't be reversed, and certainly not by anything we can do.

I do understand the mechanics of salvation and people can reverse it as the Bible clearly says. When people are saved they still have free will and can choose to reject God and do whatever they want instead of following His will. God never lets go of us, but we can let go of Him. He never lets go easily but in the end He has to respect our choices because love does not force.

There are examples in the Bible of people who had a saving relationship with God and filled with the Spirit, but then turned away such as king Saul, Balaam and Judas. These examples are in the Bible as examples for us so we don't go down that route. In order to keep being saved we have to have a continual relationship with God and never let go. Its not an easy road leading to heaven that is why few will go. Its up to you if you want to believe the clear word of God that I've posted here or continue to fight it.

 

[Thunderian]

I do understand the mechanics of salvation and people can reverse it as the Bible clearly says. When people are saved they still have free will and can choose to reject God and do whatever they want instead of following His will. God never lets go of us, but we can let go of Him. He never lets go easily but in the end He has to respect our choices because love does not force.

The moment of personal salvation is monumental spiritual event. That's why it's odd that someone wouldn't remember when it happened, or think it could unhappen.

When I was saved, I was baptized into the Body of Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:13 - For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.​

I was guaranteed eternal life and security in God's hand.

John 10:28 - And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.​

I was sealed by the Holy Spirit. Who is able to break the seal of God? Not me.

Ephesians 1:13 - In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,​

I was indwelt with the Holy Spirit of God. God is the guarantor of my salvation -- not me. Praise Almighty God my salvation has never been up to me. Hallelujah!

1 Corinthians 6:19 - What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?​

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Ephesians 1:14 - Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.​

All my sins were forgiven. ALL my sins -- past, present and future -- were covered forever by the shed blood of Jesus Christ.

Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;​

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1 Peter 1:18-19 - Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:​

My body and my soul were separated from each other by spiritual circumcision.

Colossians 2:11 - In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:​

I became righteous in the eyes of God. Since this is God's righteousness, and not mine, it's unlikely that I could lose this, even if I wanted to.

2 Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.​

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Romans 3:26 - To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.​

I became a new creature.

2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.​

I became seated in heaven with Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:5-6 - Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:​

There are examples in the Bible of people who had a saving relationship with God and filled with the Spirit, but then turned away such as king Saul, Balaam and Judas. These examples are in the Bible as examples for us so we don't go down that route.

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When did any of those people accept a risen Jesus Christ as their saviour? The salvation program for them was was not the same as it is for us right now. We have unprecedented grace. Paul mentioned it once or twice, but I guess you missed it.

In order to keep being saved we have to have a continual relationship with God and never let go.

That is not what the Bible says. The Bible says we are saved by believing in the shed blood of Jesus Christ as payment for all our sins. The "continuous works as evidence of salvation" scam does well for the Catholic church, but it's the opposite of what the Bible teaches, and the idea that we are saved, but not really, sounds more like something Satan would be telling me, than anyone who actually believes in Jesus Christ.

You claim that faith without works is dead. The only work I am going to claim is my faith in the completed work of Jesus Christ on the cross. I would be very careful about telling anyone they need more than that.

 

[TokiEl]

A relationship with Jesus is not a recipe.

If your faith falter because of people... your relationship with Him is not close enough.

You need to up your righteousness and prayer life.

 

[Thunderian]

@KingOfTheRock, I hope you're not worried about your salvation. Read my above post, and if you've accepted Jesus Christ, you're covered. God doesn't make believers afraid, and I really have to wonder at anyone who feels it's their job to make someone doubt their salvation.

 

[Thunderian]

You need to up your righteousness

Where does your righteousness come from?

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Hebrews 6:4-6 is talking about a saved person who falls. Saved people do fall and the Bible is clear on that. “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame” (NKJV). A saved person has tasted the heavenly gift, they have become partakes of the Holy Spirit and have tasted the good word of God. They are not on the cusp of being saved. There is really nothing that can be misunderstood in those verses. Its very clear actually. They are saved and then they fall away because saved people can fall away the Bible even has examples given in the above article. Kings Saul, David and Solomon and Balaam. Some of them repented and came back to God and some did not. Stop trying to project your doctrine on the Word of God which is clear.

What about these verses? “For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries” (Hebrews 10:26, 27). Are they not talking about saved people?

Wrong.
WHERE does it say they were saved??

A saved person hasn’t merely “tasted” the Heavenly gift—-we have received it completely.....THINK about it....if you taste a new food, you are only trying a sample of it, not eating the entire dish. You are merely trying a bit to see if you want it/like it.

If you have never been saved, you won’t understand this verse because you haven’t experienced it. Anyone who has been saved has EXPERIENCED this—-the difference is we did not fall away from salvation (the Heavenly gift), but received it.