Once Saved Always Saved?

[phipps]

@Thunderian I believe you are sincere but you are sincerely wrong on this subject.

Being saved is conditional. There is an eternal "if" in every consideration of eternal security.

Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.” John 8:51.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6.

You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. John 15:14.

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13.

Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. Romans 11:22.

If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. 2 Timothy 2:12.

For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Hebrews 3:14.

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. Hebrews 10:26.

Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble. 2 Peter 1:10.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7.

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1 John 2:15.

Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 1 John 2:24.

These verses are too plain to be misunderstood.

Security is eternal only for those who continually hold onto Christ until He returns.

Jesus said, "But he who endures to the end shall be saved." Matthew 24:13.

Paul wrote, "Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord." 1 Corinthians 15:58.

And Revelation 3:5 says, "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." The implication is clear that those who are not overcomers - who do not endure to the end - will have their names blotted out.

 

[TokiEl]

The implication is that there is a tipping point. That there is a limit to the number of sins a Christian can commit before their salvation is declared void. It's just stupid, if you think about it. Self-will is pride, and pride is a sin. Luckily, pride is one of the sins Jesus died for, so we're covered.

Luke 6 46 Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say?

Thunderian: But that's just stupid. I don't have to do nothing becuase i believe in you and so i am saved. Period.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Once Saved, Always Saved?

ONE OF the greatest deceptions of these closing days is the widespread teaching that once a man has passed from a standing, of “condemnation” to a standing of “justification,” he can never again come under condemnation before God to the extent of being lost. It is claimed that no matter how completely he may afterward abandon himself to drunkenness, thievery, adultery, profanity, or any other sin even if he should die while practicing one or all of these sins-there is not the remotest possibility that he will be lost. He may lose his fellowship, but he cannot lose his salvation.

According to this teaching, being born again does not necessarily lead to discontinuance of sin. The instant a man believes in Christ and by faith accepts Him as Saviour, he receives eternal life. This being the case, no amount of subsequent sinning can deprive him of this life. If a man dies in his sins, he is not damned; instead he is believed to go to be with Jesus!

A leading champion of this theory has written: “God wants a clean people. And they can be if they will humble themselves and confess their sins. To refuse to do so is to invite the judgment of God in weakness and sickness, and persistent unrepentance may result in the Lord taking them home, and then they will face the judgment seat of Christ.” But on this very point Jesus said, “You ... shall die in your sins: whither I go, you cannot come.” John 8:21.

The writer goes on: “Can the believer continue in sin and go unjudged?” He does not ask, “Can the believer continue in sin without being lost?” Indeed he teaches that a man can continue in sin until his last breath and still be saved. The Lord will visit weakness and sickness upon a man to make him “clean,” but if he persists in wickedness, then the Lord will take him “home.” There he will face the ‘Judgment seat of Christ,” not, however, for the purpose of receiving condemnation. There and then the final cleansing takes place before he is assigned a place in the kingdom. This is supposed to be the significance of facing the “judgment seat of Christ.”

The difference between this belief and the Catholic doctrine of purgatory is not great. In purgatory sinners are retained for a time to be cleansed from their sins before they are admitted to heaven. In this belief they are cleansed at the judgment seat of Christ before being assigned a place in the kingdom. According to Catholic theology, the sinner must have all defilement removed before he can come into Christ’s presence. Thus purgatory gives hope to those who die in their sins. In this belief the sinner comes before Christ with his defilement. The Apostle John, writing of the New Jerusalem, wherein Christ sits at the judgment seat, said, “There shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defiles.” Revelation 21:27. Just what explanation is made of this verse and other similar verses is not known.

1 once heard a preacher deliver a radio sermon on the prodigal son in which he emphasized that the prodigal “never ceased to be his father’s son.” Meeting him after the broadcast and knowing him to be a believer in the once-saved, always-saved doctrine, I said, “This son wasted his life living with harlots. Suppose he had died while living that way?” His unhesitating reply was, “He would have gone straight to heaven.” Holding the doctrine he did, he could not consistently answer otherwise.

The problem is, How can this view be made consistent with Scripture? John said, “There shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defiles.” And Jesus said, “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” And what of the claim that the prodigal son “never ceased to be his father’s son,” even while wasting his living “with harlots”-as the elder brother charged? Jesus gives the answer in the parable of the prodigal son, when He quotes the father as saying, “This my son ... was lost, and is found.” He was his father’s son; but he was a lost son. The same can be said of all who have turned back from Christ into the practice of sin. They are lost sons. If they die in that state, they certainly will not be taken home for cleansing; the only cleansing for sin that has ever been provided is the blood of Jesus Christ. Had the prodigal son continued in his sinning, he would have continued to be lost. Says the Scripture, ‘Whore mongers . . . shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” And Paul said plainly that adulterers shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10.) This would have ruled the prodigal son out, had he died in his sins.

The once-saved, always-saved believers class such as “carnal Christians.” If there were such (but there are not) the lake of fire would still be their lot, for Paul declares, “To the carnally minded is death.” Romans 8:6. "If you live after the flesh, you shall die.” Verse 13. What a man does in this life has a great deal to do with his destiny. According to the Scriptures, a grace which gives license to sin is not grace; it is presumption. Jude speaks of some who “pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness.” Jude 4, Revised Standard Version. Moffatt’s Translation speaks of those who “pervert the grace of our God into immorality.”

Despite these warnings, a believer in “pure grace” boldly says: “When a child of God deliberately sins against the light he has received, he can be sure [Of being lost? Far from it!] that there is coming a time of real judgment, not unto condemnation, but either a chastening (as we shall see later) or a shameful appearing before the judgment Seat of Christ at his coming.” Why should a drunkard or an adulterer care to repent if he is made to believe that at the judgment seat of Christ he can be absolutely sure of eternal salvation despite his continued sinning? The author is not talking of a sin that is committed because of a sudden temptation or because of unwatchfulness. He is claiming that if a man who deliberately practices sin is not stopped by chastisement, he still need have no fear of condemnation. If that is not encouraging the “carnally minded” to live securely in their carnal ways, what is it doing? It was on this point that Paul most earnestly warned, “Be not deceived.”

The Judgment Seat of Christ is where the saved go to receive rewards in Heaven for the things they did on earth that brought glory to God.

Everything we did that did not glorify God is burned and what remains we will be rewarded for in Heaven.

The Judgment Seat of Christ is NOT for determining salvation, as that is determined before we die.

 

[Lisa]

@Thunderian I believe you are sincere but you are sincerely wrong on this subject.

Being saved is conditional. There is an eternal "if" in every consideration of eternal security.

Most assuredly, I say to you, if anyone keeps My word he shall never see death.” John 8:51.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6.

You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. John 15:14.

For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:13.

Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. Romans 11:22.

If we endure, We shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us. 2 Timothy 2:12.

For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Hebrews 3:14.

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins. Hebrews 10:26.

Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble. 2 Peter 1:10.

But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7.

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 1 John 2:15.

Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 1 John 2:24.

These verses are too plain to be misunderstood.

Security is eternal only for those who continually hold onto Christ until He returns.

Jesus said, "But he who endures to the end shall be saved." Matthew 24:13.

Paul wrote, "Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord." 1 Corinthians 15:58.

And Revelation 3:5 says, "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." The implication is clear that those who are not overcomers - who do not endure to the end - will have their names blotted out.

Thank you...that’s a lot of if’s, I was always struck by all the if’s myself. Between the if’s and the outright verses saying people can fall away from the faith...one must be blind to believe once saved always saved. Like...the spirit explicitly says that in the later days some will fall away from the faith paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.
That’s as plain as day and yet...here we are.
Must be the tickled ears, people read what they want to read, not what is true.

 

[Lisa]

At times, I hear the issue discussed in different, more nuanced, terms. It's not (exclusively) whether one can fall out of God's hand, so to speak, but if, once one has been properly and genuinely "born again," one can choose to be self-willed instead of submitting one's will to God; and if one repeatedly and consciously opts for self-will, and that will is in opposition to God's will, and one does not repent, one is still considered "saved." I sometimes wonder about that as well.

Welcome back @Lisa.

Hey Serv, thanks

 

[Lisa]

Christ abolished the priesthood and made the ceremonial aspect of The Law obsolete (by replacing it with following His Example of daily "self" sacrifice, which teaches unselfishness) but the Moral Law remains unchanged forever.

Wherever Paul talks about The Law being our tutor, he is always referring to the ceremonial part of The Law (animal sacrifice for the remission of sins and the priesthood) which was only a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ.

Paul said that he himself was living by The Law (Rom. 7:25), that The Law is Holy, Just and Good (Rom. 7:12), that he was establishing it wherever he went (Rom. 3:31) and that only doers of The Law will be justified (Rom. 2:13).

Ya the law is Holy, just and good, it is God’s law. But Jesus fulfilled it, He didn’t sin.
Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
‭‭GALATIANS‬ ‭2:16‬ ‭
We will never be justified by the law, the Israelites weren’t which is why they had the sacrifice but even the sacrifice was not enough. It took the once for all sacrifice of Jesus to be enough.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Thank you...that’s a lot of if’s, I was always struck by all the if’s myself. Between the if’s and the outright verses saying people can fall away from the faith...one must be blind to believe once saved always saved. Like...the spirit explicitly says that in the later days some will fall away from the faith paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons.
That’s as plain as day and yet...here we are.
Must be the tickled ears, people read what they want to read, not what is true.

Wrong.

If you we’re actually SAVED, you would KNOW that you cannot “lose” your salvation, because we who are saved have all committed sin after being saved yet are STILL SAVED.

 

[Lisa]

Wrong.

If you we’re actually SAVED, you would KNOW that you cannot “lose” your salvation, because we who are saved have all committed sin after being saved yet are STILL SAVED.

I am actually saved by grace through faith. And I have read the Bible and noticed the same things @phipps has noticed and read the words that actually say one can fall away from the faith and instead of saying that’s wrong or it means something else I have taken it as the truth that it is.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

I am actually saved by grace through faith. And I have read the Bible and noticed the same things @phipps has noticed and read the words that actually say one can fall away from the faith and instead of saying that’s wrong or it means something else I have taken it as the truth that it is.

So if you are saved, you know you have committed sin following your salvation, correct?

And you know that despite that sin, you are still saved? Correct?

 

[TokiEl]

Wrong.

If you we’re actually SAVED, you would KNOW that you cannot “lose” your salvation, because we who are saved have all committed sin after being saved yet are STILL SAVED.

SLIDE through that narrow door... for I say many will try to enter and not be able. But you SLIDE i say SLIDE through it... to the other side.

 

[Lisa]

So if you are saved, you know you have committed sin following your salvation, correct?

And you know that despite that sin, you are still saved? Correct?

I’m not sure of the sin you’re talking about following my salvation? Will you elaborate?

But anyway...what does that have to do with 1 Timothy 4:1 or all the if’s...that’s a lot of if’s...

 

[Claire Rousseau]

I’m not sure if the sun you’re talking about following my salvation? Will you elaborate?

But anyway...what does that have to do with 1 Timothy 4:1 or all the if’s...that’s a lot of if’s...

I’m talking about when you got saved.
Surely you remember when you got saved.

I got saved April 2004.

You ought to know about when you were saved.

The point I am trying to make is that if you ARE saved, you KNOW you ARE saved. You also know you have sinned AFTER you got saved, and salvation was not “taken” away from you.

Do you agree?

 

[Lisa]

I’m talking about when you got saved.
Surely you remember when you got saved.

I got saved April 2004.

You ought to know about when you were saved.

The point I am trying to make is that if you ARE saved, you KNOW you ARE saved. You also know you have sinned AFTER you got saved, and salvation was not “taken” away from you.

Do you agree?

Actually, I don’t remember when I got saved...I think I was a child who believed, got on the neighborhood Sunday school bus a couple of times and had a pink little pocket Bible to show for it.

Ya, sorry..I wasn’t sure what you meant...like there was some sin I was supposed to know I committed right after I got saved...anyway, yes, I have sinned and no, my salvation wasn’t taken away.

However, if I believed in lies, or was deceived, I would think that I would be walking away from God, since we worship in spirit and in truth. If I don’t have the truth in me anymore...can I really be walking with God? You know...a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough...that’s a slippery slope then.

Again...there’s just way too many if’s for me, too many verses talking about falling away, a few verses talking about once you fall away then you lose your salvation..well, that’s what it comes down to because you cannot be recovered from that. Maybe, that’s what it means to walk humbly with your God? Knowing that you need to walk closely to Him so you won’t fall away?

 

[bible_student]

Ya the law is Holy, just and good, it is God’s law. But Jesus fulfilled it, He didn’t sin.
Nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
‭‭GALATIANS‬ ‭2:16‬ ‭
We will never be justified by the law, the Israelites weren’t which is why they had the sacrifice but even the sacrifice was not enough. It took the once for all sacrifice of Jesus to be enough.

None of that means it's been done away with or that we no longer have to keep it. We still have to keep it because Jesus said so.
In order for a man to be justified by faith, his faith will have to be real and alive, like it was the case with Abraham.
Because faith without works is dead and will therefore (due to being dead) justify nothing (because, it's proof that it's not genuine and therefore, it's dead and not alive - bearing no fruit).

As we can read in The Gospel according to James the brother of Jesus -

James
2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding YE give them NOT those things which the body has need of; what good have ye done?
2:17 Even so FAITH, if it hath not WORKS, is DEAD, being alone.
2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will SHOW thee my faith BY my works.
2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils (liars) also believe, and tremble.
2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain (worthless) man, that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS is DEAD?
2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar (and God made him your example)?
2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and BY WORKS was faith (trust in God) MADE PERFECT?
2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed ONLY God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
2:24 Ye see then how that by WORKS a man is justified, and NOT by faith only.
2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by WORKS, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?
2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.

And it says in Ephesians, that this is our purpose and the reason why we were created - to do good works.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good WORKS, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them (do them - good works).
King of kings' bible

So it is not just words, but deeds that matter. Our deeds must serve to back up our words, otherwise, our words are empty and they mean nothing (are worthless).

 

[Lisa]

None of that means it's been done away with or that we no longer have to keep it. We still have to keep it because Jesus said so.
In order for a man to be justified by faith, his faith will have to be alive, like it was the case with Abraham.
Faith without works is dead and will therefore (due to being dead) justify nothing (because it is not genuine), as we can read in The Gospel according to James the brother of Jesus -

James
2:14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding YE give them NOT those things which the body has need of; what good have ye done?
2:17 Even so FAITH, if it hath not WORKS, is DEAD, being alone.
2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will SHOW thee my faith BY my works.
2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils (liars) also believe, and tremble.
2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain (worthless) man, that FAITH WITHOUT WORKS is DEAD?
2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar (and God made him your example)?
2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and BY WORKS was faith (trust in God) MADE PERFECT?
2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed ONLY God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
2:24 Ye see then how that by WORKS a man is justified, and NOT by faith only.
2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by WORKS, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?
2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD also.
King of kings' bible

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
‭‭EPHESIANS‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭

We can’t do the good works without God either...
I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-2, 4-5‬ ‭

That’s the works James is talking about. We can’t keep the law its never been done by man because of our sin. The only one who was able to keep the law and there was only one who could was Jesus, we are justified through Him. We don’t have to keep the law because of Him, its grace.

 

[bible_student]

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
‭‭EPHESIANS‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭

We can’t do the good works without God either...

Agreed.

I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.
Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-2, 4-5‬ ‭

That’s the works James is talking about. We can’t keep the law its never been done by man because of our sin.

With God, ALL things are possible (Matthew 19:26).

Luke
1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife [was] of the daughters of Aaron, and her name [was] Elisabeth.
1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the Commandments and Ordinances of the Lord blameless.

The only one who was able to keep the law and there was only one who could was Jesus, we are justified through Him. We don’t have to keep the law because of Him, its grace.

As above.

 

[bible_student]

Everyone who wants to live has to learn to keep it. The whole point is to learn to stop transgressing The Law, by following and applying Jesus' teachings and learning to keep and not break God's Law (i.e. stop sinning).

Sin is defined in the Bible, as transgression of The Law:

1 John
3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the (adopted) sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
3:2 Beloved, now are we the (adopted) sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also The Law: for sin is the transgression of The Law.
3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our (past) sins; and in him is no sin.

The whole point of all of this is for people to learn to stop sinning (stop transgressing God's Law).

3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in DEED and in Truth.
3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we KEEP His Commandments, and DO those things that are pleasing in His sight.

Galatians 3:19 Wherefore then [serveth] The Law? It was added BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSIONS, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Therefore, it is needed to study The Law as well as the teachings in the NT, to be able to really learn what sin is and then have God teach you personally, how to be good (how to keep His Laws and to stop being bad - stop sinning).

God is there all the time and He then helps you and gives you the strength to do it, but it is up to each person to choose to turn to Him and to make sure to stay in contact and to keep asking Him for His help.

 

[TokiEl]

That’s the works James is talking about. We can’t keep the law its never been done by man because of our sin. The only one who was able to keep the law and there was only one who could was Jesus, we are justified through Him. We don’t have to keep the law because of Him, its grace.

Look what the Saviour said.

John 14 15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

 

[Allegra]

I don’t see having or maintaining a relationship with Jesus as a mandatory or best interest or whether it’s needed or not.
I see that having a relationship with Jesus our saviour is something that what we could have in the first place if only Adam & Eve did not fall into sin. We long for that relationship. Unimaginable tbh because He is Holy. It’s also what differ us from other religions that our relationship with God is so intimate and we are called to be His children.

Now, to answer your question do I have doubt that I can slip away from God’s hand, if my faith is built upon a rock, not sand? The answer is no, nothing can separate me from God’s love. When we have that unshakeable faith, nothing will be in the way because God will take care of it. The problem is not God but me.. as long as I live in this earth I will always sinning but God’s grace enables me to strengthen my faith so I can walk with Him. That’s how God’s grace works. By humbling ourselves in front of Him and be persistent, whatever we ask, He will give. The relationship is always two-way.

The thing about OSAS, it’s not wrong but it’s an incomplete doctrine. It’s half baked. It’s easily misunderstood from both side.
1. Those who disagree think it’s like giving a license to sin
2. It could give false assurance for those who don’t understand that there are more in the bible and yet believe in the doctrine as a whole truth.

We need to exercise our faith because faith without work is empty, yes that verse still applies until today and forevermore. However, remember our work is filthy rag in front of God so work itself won’t get u anywhere but it’s a compliment to our faith that makes us whole.

“...work our salvation in fear and trembling.”
Key word: work.

However Paul didn’t mean it’s only work because we already get salvation. Where that salvation from we should already know.

They have to come together so God’s salvation will be honoured.

The way OSAS is being represent can mislead a lot of people if not understood correctly. The excuse: if you can backtrack and commit apostasy mean you are not saved in first place. This can not be applied to every one of them who do such action. This excuse is also overused to get away from many things.
No, they were saved, God offered and granted it, but they threw it and chose the broad way. I can understand about Hebrew 6. This is the free will.

I might not explain my views correctly here, there are more but I still need to find a way to worded it and learn more about it.

 

[TokiEl]

God is gracious in that He sent His Son to pay the punishment for our sins. And He paid it in full.

That is why sinners no matter what they've done can be forgiven their crimes.

God is generous in that everyone who turns from evil towards good get a second chance because of His Son.

The angels were not that lucky. They would probably give a lot for a second chance.