I have told you what I am but I believe Adventist doctrine. If you don't believe that, that is up to you but don't tell me what I am thank you very much! There is nothing wrong and shame in being Adventist though as you're trying to make others believe in here. For me the truth trumps religions. I find that Adventist doctrine is close to the Bible than any other Christian religion on earth.
Good for you, in the original post they specifically asked if you were SDA or JW because both share the same False Doctrine concerning Michael and Jesus. I clarified which one you leaned towards. Am I wrong?
And I hold the position that SDA are a Cult, you dont have to like my position but that is where I stand on SDA, and I believe many other Christians view them as a Cult as well. Just like they view Mormonism or JW as Cults.
You can find SDA the closest to the Bible if you would like, I however disagree and will point out why whenever you make Threads I disagree with.
So according to that definition of cult Adventism is NOT a cult.
Actually it does, I guess you didnt recognize it:
A relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or as imposing excessive control over members.
SDA holds beliefs that the Majority of Christians regard as strange and incorrect some of which I have pointed out and one being the idea that Ellen G White is a Prophet. You can disagree all you want and make arguments that SDA isnt a Cult but according to the definition you provided they qualify.
As I asked before what is it that you believe makes one a Cult? Is Mormonism a Cult?
How about JW? If so why? Explain the things they hold to that makes them a Cult that isnt found in a similar aspect of SDA.
Unless they are telling the truth
Which they are not.
Knowing their doctrine and having studied the Bible for years they are right.
And I take the opposing viewpoint, having studied the Bible for years and knowing their Doctrine, I know they are wrong. In fact the mass majority of Christians disagree with you and agree with me, while I know that doesnt matter to you, the fact is billions of people believe SDA is wrong and why they consider them a Cult...
I have never read any Adventist writings that says one has belong to their Church or they will go to hell or anything close to that.
The or at least an essential ideology behind SDA is that they are the One True Remnant Church, therefore they are the ONE True Church that actually delivers the Gospel. It is inherent that to consider yourself the ONE True Church, with the ONE True Doctrine and Gospel that all those OUTSIDE of it are False. The declaration of their Church shows that they believe that in the "End Times" everyone is going to have to join or be apart of their Church or they will be Lost and cast into Hell.
Like the Papacy which they state is the Antichrist and the first beast of Revelation 13. Its the truth and Christians should preach the truth no matter how difficult it is or how well accepted it will be. Most people don't accept the truth. That is why only a minority will make it to heaven.
So if one doesnt accept the SDA Doctrine concerning the Papacy, and thus not accepting the "Truth" are they not going to Heaven?
I can see your point but SDA's are right about their doctrine. Now where I disagree with them is you don't have to be a part of their Church to know the truth. I study their doctrine because its the truth but one doesn't have to be Adventist to accept it. The problem is where to get baptised? Well there are small Churches that believe in Adventist doctrine but are not SDA's.
So you admit that they preach the Doctrine that you have to be apart of their Church to know the Truth (which we know concerns Salvation) but deny that their Doctrine leads to the inevitable conclusion that if you dont belong to their Church, you dont know the Truth and therefore are going to Hell?
I understand you disagree with them on this aspect, but the fact that you disagree ought to go to my point, which is that they believe and their doctrine leads to the fact that if you dont join their Church you are going to go to Hell.
Also why do you bring up Baptism? Do you think Baptism in a specific Church or Denomination affects Salvation?
The much I know about Ellen G White (which is more than you), she is a true prophet of God.
So I know enough about her (regardless of you belief you know more than me) to know that she is clearly a False Prophet. What is the test of a Prophet according to Scripture?
Deut 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken?
22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
There is more to it than that, but for the sake of our discussion the only thing we need to know is that if a person declares themselves a Prophet and EVER their Prophecy doesnt come to pass then that person (also notice it say HIM) is to be declared a False Prophet.
So with that base line understanding all we have to do is look at Ellen G White and the Prophecies she made and see if any of them didnt come True. If ONE didnt, well then we know without a doubt that she is a False Prophet. Did she ever make and False Prophecies?
So Ellen G White stated she received a Prophecy from an Angel concerning the Civil War, and according to them:
January 4, 1862, I was shown some things in regard to our nation.
Said the angel: “Hear, O heavens, the cry of the oppressed, and reward the oppressors double according to their deeds.” This nation will yet be humbled into the dust ...When England does declare war, all nations will have an interest of their own to serve, and there will be general war, general confusion
So according to her and her Angel, as recorded in her writings in Testimonies Vol 1 pages 253& 259,
America was to be humbled into the dust and that England was to declare war on us. No matter what you try and say, this a prediction she made and of course it did not come True. Therefore JUST on this one thing we can know with zero doubts that shes a False Prophet and nothing she says matters. However there is many other things she said and wrote that are wholly incorrect. Some of them were so blatantly obviously incorrect that massive False Doctrines had to be devised in order to cover them up.
You mention them later, so I will wait till then to explain further, however EGW also made False Prophecies about Chrsts Return. In her Book Testimonies, Volume 1, p.131 one of her greatest False Prophecies has been recorded, in which she stated:
I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus
According to her prediction some of the people who were at this Conference would be alive and TRANSLATED at the coming of Jesus. So in this statement she made a verifible prophecy. One that Jesus WOULD come back during their lifetime and two that some would be TRANSLATED. Of course Christ never came and all of those people died so therefore we have another clear cut case of her making a False Prophecy and thus everyone needs to reject EVERYTHING she ever said, period...
You earlier stated that it is not SDA Doctrine to declare that one has to be in the SDA Church to be saved, however this is what EGW wrote concerning other Churches when she was alive:
I saw the state of the different churches since the second angel proclaimed their fall. They have been growing more and more corrupt..
Satan has taken full possession of the churches as a body....
Their profession, their prayers and their exhortations, are an abomination in the sight of God. Spiritual Gifts. Volume 1 : Page 189
According to her position, all the rest of the Churches have been fully taken possession of by Satan and that an Angel proclaimed their fall in 1844,( a massive date for SDA because as I stated they still cling to it as when Christ as SUPPOSED to come back) and that every other Church member save those in SDA, prayers are abominations in the sight of God. That is not Biblical and again lends great credence to what I have been saying, that unless you are part of the SDA then according to EGW and their Doctrine you are going to Hell.
Many of her False Prophecies revolve around 1844, because that is the date she orginially believed Christ was to come back, if you dont accept that then you need to study the Millerite Movement. So when it was obvious that Christ didnt come back instead of Repenting and declaring it all False, like Miller himself did, she clung to this date and changed what it meant.
One False Doctrine created around that date was the Shut Door Doctrine, in which she declared that Jesus didnt physically come back to earth instead He shut the door for all those outside of SDA/Millerite in 1844 so that no one else would be saved. In accordance with this was the prediction and idea that within so many years from that time Christ would actually come back, however when it was apparent that other people were being saved she reneged from this position and then created other False Doctrines to explain why she was wrong on that and Jesus hadnt come back.
For those not aware here is a summary of EGW Shut Door Doctrine, used to cover up the False Prophecy of Christs Return by William Miller:
When Christ failed to return in 1844 there was great confusion among the followers of William Miller. It was among the group that later became the Seventh-day Adventist Church that the "shut door" teaching developed.
They taught that on October 22, 1844, Christ got up and moved from the Holy Place into the Most Holy Place. In so doing, Christ shut the door of salvation to all except those Advent believers who had joined Miller's 1844 movement. They believed that Jesus was "shut in" with His special people, preparing them to receive His kingdom. They believed that since October 22, 1844, Christ was ministering only to Israel (the Advent believers). They taught that Christ was testing His children on certain points of truth, such as the seventh day Sabbath, and that their work for the salvation of others was finished.
Joseph Bates, a prominent leader in this movement, held the view that there would be a 7-year period where Christ would test His children and that Christ would return to earth in 1851. In 1848 there was a war in Europe, and later a pestilence occurred, and the Advent believers took these events as signs that the time of trouble had commenced.
The Adventist prophetess Ellen White had visions supporting this "shut door" doctrine, and her husband James White's paper--Present Truth--trumpeted the shut door teaching up until late 1850. The doctrine was rejected by William Miller and most of the leaders in the Millerite movement. It was accepted by only a small number of followers of Joseph Bates and the Whites.
In early 1850 the "shut door" began to slip open. Those who were Christians in 1844, but had not had opportunity to hear Miller's time-setting message were allowed to enter the church. Near the end of 1850 the "shut door" opened a little further. The Adventists were shocked when a man who was a non-believer in 1844 accepted the Adventist message in August, 1850, and started attending their meetings. It was their first conversion of an unconverted man since 1844!
In 1851, when it became evident that Christ was not going to return according to Bates' time-table, the Whites modified their teaching on the "shut door". They distanced themselves from Bates, and moved westward. James White abandoned the Present Truth magazine and started a new magazine, the Advent Review and Sabbath Herald. He reprinted his wife's visions in 1851, but was careful to remove those parts referencing the erroneous "shut door" doctrine. The doctrine disappeared from the writings of the leaders and most new converts into the church never heard of it nor had any idea that their prophet had seen a "shut door" of salvation in her visions.
https://www.nonsda.org/egw/egw1.shtml
All of that clearly is False, and of course this leads into the other massive False Doctrine built upon both the False Prophecy of Christs Return by Miller and the False Shut Door Doctrine, and I will speak on that later, but I am sure you know what it is since you have studied all of this so intently...
I can go further and further concerning her, but I believe this enough for any discerning believer in Christ to reject her as a Prophet. I of course do not expect you to ever reject her as it is extremely hard to get those who have brainwashed into a Cult to reject the things that are Central to their beliefs. If you rejected her well then you would have to reject literally everything you believe as it all stems from her, and that would cause massive Cognitive Dissonance..
Also the fact is Scriptures outright declare that Prophets are no longer going to be a thing or are needed, that is straight up from the mouth of Christ, so if you want to believe this woman or any other person is a Prophet well then you are rejecting Jesus own words:
Luke 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
The Law and Prophets were UNTIL JOHN, but since then the Gospel has come, the Kingdom of God is preached and there is NO NEED for a Prophet. And Paul confirms this as well:
Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Christ came and fully revealed everything we need to know from God, there is literally zero need for a Prophet ever again. The second someone declares they are a Prophet, or they have some new revelation you can immediately know without a doubt they are False and nothing they say is from God...
Have you read a full book of Ellen G White?
So are you qualified to declare Joseph Smith a False Prophet? Have you read the Book of Mormon?
Are you qualified to declare Muhammad a False Prophet? Have you read the Quran or the Hadiths?
How about Charles T Russel, are you qualified to call him a False Prophet? Have you read his writings?
What about William Branham are you qualified to call him a False Prophet? Have you read his writings?
Heres the facts, one doesnt have to read entire works of someone to be able to declare them False, all that is needed is good evidence that shows that they either dont line up with the Bible or made False Prophecies. There is overwhelming evidence that she made False Prophecies and of course many of her teachings and SDA dont line up with Biblical Doctrine.
Not only that, as other have pointed out and gave OVERWHELMING evidence with multiple people and sources to confirm it, EGW with ZERO DOUBTS plagiarized massive portions of her writings. And of course regardless of all the people and sources and facts presented to you concerning just that fact, you are not willing to accept it. That is the exact mentality of a Cult Member.
Just as it is impossible for you or anyone else to move Bible Student off of the fact that he following a False Prophet and is part of a Cult, it will be just as impossible for you to be moved off of SDA and EGW.
She never said Jesus returned in 1844. He clearly didn't. Get your facts straight will you?
I have got my facts straight, why dont you get your facts straight. She BELIEVES in the False Prophecy of William Miller. She NEVER Repented of it, EVER. And went to create other False Doctrines to explain why Christ didnt Return, it is called the Shut Door Prophecy. I will admit I did mix her lying reasoning up with Charles T Russell, he is the one that stated Christ did Return but invisibly. Both of them invented reasons why the original 1844 date is correct, EGW created the Shut Door Doctrine followed up by the Heretical Investigative Judgement Doctrine, CTR created the Invisible Return Doctrine to justify the 1844 prediction...
Forgive me for mixing up the details of these two False Prophets who both came from the same False Religion of the Millerites and went on to create their own False Religions, Jehovah Witnesses and SDA...
. Some of them believed that at first, found out they were wrong and went back to study their Bibles
SMH so you admit that SDA believed it but try and call me out as tho they didnt? They definitely believed He was coming and EGW was so desperate to uphold that date that she created a bunch of False Doctrines. She also made multiple predictions based on that date as to when Christ would actually Return but of course they were all wrong. In fact when one of her predictions failed she blamed the SDA Congregation instead of admitting she was incorrect.
And the FACTS are when we are dealing with supposed Prophets and the creation of a sect of Christianity being established it is vitally important to point out and analyze what they believed and stated during its creation. I would NEVER want to be associated with any sect of any Religion that was created from a False Prophets Failed Prophecy and that is exactly where SDA comes from...
I know about the investigative judgement and its completely biblical. You cannot explain it to me because you don't know about it apart from what you read about it today from a site that disagrees with Adventism and Ellen G White.
Please, I have known about EGW and Adventism for years, I was on this site almost a decade ago writing massive posts exposing her and their doctrines. The only thing I was incorrect on was as I just admitted I mixed up her unbiblical explanation of the Great Disappointment with CTR unbiblical explanation. And the Investigative Judgement is highly unbiblical as well.
For those who are not aware what this Unbiblical and Heretical Doctrine states here is a quick overview of it:
Seventh-day Adventists teach the following regarding the Investigative Judgment:
1. Christ moved from the Holy Place to the Most Holy Place in the heavenly sanctuary on October 22, 1844, and began a new phase of ministry. This ministry was foreshadowed by the Levitical Day of Atonement (Lev. 16:16-33).
2. The first phase of the "Day of Atonement" is called the "cleansing of the Sanctuary." It involves a pre-Advent investigation and judging of God's people to determine whose sins will be removed from the Sanctuary. Christ started this judgment in 1844, beginning with Adam and Eve and progressing chronologically down through the ages, judging all of the dead believers. At some point, near the end of time, Christ will begin judging living believers. During this Investigative Judgment God either blots out the sins of the believer, or he removes the name of the believer from the Book of Life.
As during the typical Day of Atonement the cleansing of the earthly sanctuary removed the sins accumulated there, so the heavenly sanctuary is cleansed by the final removal of the record of sins in the heavenly books. But before the records are finally cleared, they will be examined to determine who through repentance and faith in Christ is entitled to enter His eternal kingdom. The cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary, therefore involves a work of investigation or judgment that reflects the nature of the Day of Atonement as a day of judgment. This judgment, which ratifies the decision as to who will be saved and who will be lost...1
3. Whenever one of God's followers commits a sin and asks foregiveness from God, that sin is transferred into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly Sanctuary. It remains there, in the Sanctuary, until the Investigative Judgment is completed. At the end of time, all the sins of the righteous are transferred from the Sanctuary onto the Scapegoat, who is Satan. Satan then suffers the final punishment for his sins and all the sins of the righteous.
Absolutely no where does the Bible state that Jesus is going to move from the Holy Place into the Most Holy Place (especially in the year 1844) and start this blasphemous idea of going back and looking over all the Christians performances to dictate whether or not they will be saved. THAT is the basic idea behind this Doctrine and it absolutely and totally flies in the face of Scripture and the purpose of Christs Death and the method of Salvation.
You seriously believe that Christ needs to go back and check and see which ones are His? Is that alone Biblical?
John 10:14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
2 Tim 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
The very basis of the Investigative Judgement (IJ) is completely against the Bible, Jesus already knows who is His and there is no reason whatsoever for Him to go back and examine all the Christians to see who is or who isnt going to make it to Heaven. He KNEW back when the Scriptures were written or else these Scriptures are False.
Not only that, God is omniscience, which means He knows everything including who would or would not accept Him and would or would not get into Heaven or any other aspect of this ideology you would want to bring up.
Acts 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
The IJ flies in the face of the all knowingness of God, as tho He didnt know from the beginning who would and would not make it into Heaven, or accept or reject Him. Jesus doesnt need to go thru some list of all these people and mark them on one side or another. Jesus isnt Santa Clause making a list and then checking it twice, Jesus is God and knew before the Creation of the World who would and wouldnt accept Him.
IJ also makes another Doctrinal Error in stating at that time from 1844 on, that is when Christ would have started blotting out the Sins of those whose WORKS were sufficient, that of course also in not Biblical. When does Scripture state our Sins are blotted out?
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
When we Repented and were BORN AGAIN it is at THAT time that our Sins, ALL OF THEM are blotted out. This is why Paul can state with confidence that NOW we are Justified by His Blood. If IJ was true there is absolutely no way ever could Paul state we are NOW Justified by His Blood, because no one EVER could know they were going to make it into Heaven and were EVER Justified. There are many more verses that show us that we have 100% been Forgiven of ALL SIN past present and future in accordance to SALVATION the second we Repent Confess and Believe on Christ.
To deny this is to reject Salvation by Faith thru Grace, period. And as such that means that this Doctrine affects Salvation and is utterly heretical plain and simple. There are Doctrines that dont affect Salvation that we can argue the merits of or not and it really doesnt matter, however this is one that 100% affects Salvation and thus is deterimental to the Biblical Truth concerning Salvation which is that we Repent in our Hearts, believe in our Hearts and Confess with our mouths and we are then Saved, FOREVER.
The facts are the Atonement, ALL OF IT, ever single aspect of it was 100% completed at the Cross. What did Jesus say?
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
It was finished on Calvary Jesus made Atonement for all Sin, everything that was needed to be done was totally completed.
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
We have been Justified and Perfected by the Blood of Christ, and Jesus has ALREADY sat at the Right Hand of God, there is absolutely NOTHING in the New Testament that supports this heretical doctrine. It was completely and totally made up by that False Prophet to cover up a Failed Prophecy, and it has nothing to do with Scripture whatsoever. Moreover what else does the Bible state concerning when our condemnation is taken away, which according to IJ is sometime AFTER 1844 and completely and totally unknown to everyone alive and dead when, but according to the Bible:
Rom 8:There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Paul against states that NOW there is no condemnation, which was written 2000 years ago. It would be IMPOSSIBLE for him to make such a statement if IJ was correct, which of course it isnt...
According to Scripture when do we receive Eternal Life? According to IJ no one can ever say they are saved because they have zero idea if they have gone thru the IJ, if Jesus has made it to their name on a list, however Scripture states:
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
We KNOW we have passed from death to life, when we believe it is THEN that we have passed from death to life and will NOT come into condemnation. IJ rejects all of these Scriptures instead teaching the Heretical Doctrine that we dont KNOW we have been saved and are going to Heaven, because it is literally impossible to know when Christ has gotten around to us for this Judgement. Even the idea that we are to be Judge for Salvation AFTER we are dead is completely and totally Heretical.
I was Judged by the Gospel when I heard it, and I was found guilty of my Sin, then I believed the Good News that was offered me thru Christ, by Faith and His Grace, that if I believe then I would be forgiven and I would have Eternal Life. According to Scripture, therefore there is now NO Condemnation for me concerning Judgement for Salvation, Christ has done everything needed and assured it to me ETERNALLY.
Also this idea makes other Scriptures absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to be True or correctly written. According to IJ all the DEAD believers had to WAIT until 1844 when Christ moved into the Most Holy Place and then proceeded from Adam and Eve on down to Judge if they would get to Heaven. This means NO ONE ever could be said to have made it into Heaven or Paradise or other synonymy for Heaven, however what does Scripture teach?
Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.
Jesus told the thief that that day he WOULD be with Christ in paradise, this would be an impossible statement for Christ to make according to the Heretical Doctrine of IJ. The thief would of had to wait until AT LEAST 1844 for Jesus to start the IJ before Jesus could possibly know that the thief truly repented of ALL of his sins and at that point have his sins blotted out. Again IJ goes directly against this very clear Scripture that states the thief would be in Heaven with Jesus THAT day. It also goes directly against another False Doctrine SDA (and JW) hold which is Soul Sleep, but we can discuss that later I suppose...
Did Jesus ever declare that anyone else would be in Heaven before this IJ would have started?
Matt 8:1 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
Jesus states clearly that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob WILL be in the Kingdom of Heaven and this was at least 1800+ years before the IJ supposedly started.
Also Scripture tells us exactly when Christ went into the Holiest of Holies:
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Paul is clearly referencing the Most Holy Place in this Scripture as he is speaking of how the High Priest in the Old Testament would enter into the Holiest of Holies on Yom Kippor and place the blood for the Remission of Sins. Christ entered into the Holiest of Holies ONCE when He was Resurrected and placed His Blood there, so that we can KNOW we have obtained Eternal Redemption for us. The IJ rejects the ability of Paul to make such as statement, as it would NOT have happened when he wrote this. Paul is speaking in the PAST and not of a Future Event. Christ has already placed the Blood, and obtained Salvation for us, all that is needed for us is to believe and that is IT.
Your False Doctrine teaches that Jesus didnt do anything concerning blotting out Sins until 1844 and it as we have discussed in the past makes Jesus sit there what amounts to a chalk board tallying Sins up and waiting until we "repent" of each individual one, and then erasing them. If for some reason there is still a tally mark then Jesus sends us to Hell. ABSURD AND HERETICAL PERIOD.
Jesus applied His Blood to our hearts the second we Repented, aka CHANGED OUR MIND as to what Sin is, where it places us in accordance to our standing with God and where it will send us, which means when we CHANGE OUR MIND that Sin is what has Separated us from God, that Sin is something that causes us to be condemned before God, that we are GUILTY before God for it and we deserve Hell because of it. THAT is Biblical Repentance, we CHANGE OUR MIND (the literal definition of the Word in Greek) about Sin, Death and Hell and who Christ is and what He has done for us, which is that He is God in Flesh that came and lived perfectly Righteously which no man was able to do, thus fulfilling the Law and then He chose to lay down His Life and shed His Blood so that ANYONE WHO BELIEVES ON HIM will have HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS given to them and thus will be Born Again and receive Eternal Life!
That is Repentance to Salvation, after that comes Repentance from Sin, something IMPOSSIBLE unless on Repents to Salvation, and that process is defined as SANCTIFICATION. The process in which we Repent of our Sins and by the Power of the Holy Spirit living in us, we are transformed more and more into Christ and resemble Him more and more.
Sanctification has ZERO to do with Salvation, in the eyes of God we are 100% Sanctified by Faith thru Grace and that is called JUSTIFICATION and it is all because of Christs Work on the Cross. We enter into the Process of Santification of our lives to reflect Christ and show the Glory of God, it has NOTHING to do with your standing in front of God for Salvation.
To teach ANYTHING other than this, is to teach a WORKS BASED SALVATION plain and simple and that of course is a FALSE DOCTRINE as well, which is what IJ is once again...
I can go on and on discussion IJ, but I have refuted it with Scripture and I am sure that once any Born Again Christian reads what IJ is they will 100% reject it as unbiblical and heretical, it is so incredibly obviously false it is outstanding that you or anyone else would believe such nonsense.
What I can tell you without a doubt is that absolutely no human being in existence read the Bible ALONE and came up with that EVER. It was made up after 1844 by a False Prophet as an excuse for a failed Prophecy. Even today absolutely no human being would EVER come up with this ideology by reading the Bible ALONE, because it is NOT taught in the Bible.
ONLY those who are deceived by and brainwashed to try and interpret Scriptures in a specific way would ever see this in there, however NO ONE EVER thought of this being in the Bible, or was even slightly thought of being in the Bible in the 1844 years before EGW in Church History. Its garbage, false and heretical, I would suggest Repenting of it and STOP trying to teach it before you cause people to believe in a Works Based Salvation and send them to Hell...
SDA is not a cult and you haven't proved that because what you posted is lies and your point of view is not balanced is it? Lies don't count.
It is and I have given a detailed reasoning as to why I believe it is...
The Bible proves Michael is Jesus not Adventists.
No just those Cults that came out of the Millierite movement believe such things. Christians dont, and the Bible definitely doesnt teach such a thing...
God has certain attributes that created beings don't.
Correct and Michael doesnt have those attributes, you insert your ideology into verses when in context and alone they do not reference Michael at all, but we have already been over them...
. And the Sabbath was changed by the Catholic Church which they have no authority to do. They claim it themselves. God has never changed the day of worship or any other commandment as I've explained to you over. you've chosen Catholicism over the Word of God on the Sabbath. So I will follow the Sabbath of the Bible and not of tradition or Catholicism which most Christians follow. Most of Christendom is wrong about the Sabbath and you are wrong about Michael. In fact its a small minority of Christians who have Bible truths and SDA'a are one of those people.
I reject the Sabbath being on Sunday, I dont care what the RCC did or claims, they mean nothing. I believe the Bible which teaches that CHRIST is the Sabbath and we are NOT to Judge others on which day they choose to Worship on. In fact we OUGHT to Worship Christ EVERYDAY not just one or even two, but all day every day THAT is Biblical teaching.
The Tradition of meeting on Sunday to Worship God was clearly evident in Scripture as Paul did and the Churches of his did as well. If you want to debate the Sabbath I am happy to show the Truth concerning it but this post is already massive, specifically to address the False Prophet EGW and the Heretical IJ.
The Papacy is the Anti Christ and has said Sunday is its Mark.
Well no its not but again that is a different debate...
Its the truth and it harmonises with the Bible. You saying it isn't won't change that fact. So that's that! I didn't ask you to come on this forum so if you disagree go to the forums that agree with you and ignore and skip my forums from now on. Okay? Easy peasy!
Umm how about no. I will continue to confront False Doctrines and Teachings when I see it and you profess quite a bit of them because you are on here teaching SDA Doctrines which many of them are False and if not False outright Heretical...
I find you extremely rude even when there is no reason to be.
I feel that anyone who calls out your False Doctrine you would consider rude. I am blunt and to the point, if that offends you I am sorry...
I believe they know most of the truth of the Bible because they are theologians. All Adventist Pastors have to have Masters degrees in theology which involves studying the Bible in Greek and Hebrew. But more than that, they let the the Bible interpret itself and show us how and why.
Yeah I have definitely noticed that the whole idea of having a piece of paper to determine your calling to preach has ruined Christianity. I can tell you that I have heard people with degrees "preach" and there was nothing there and then I have heard country bumpkins that have no education past high school preach the Gospel in such power and spirit that it brought people to Salvation and Repentance.
A piece of paper doesnt do much, especially when these people are going to indoctrination camps that already have preconceived ideologies and teach them how to get to their ideologies. I mean your boy Walter Veith has zero education in any field concerning the Bible, he was a Zoology professor, however you take everything he says as straight up Gospel, literally.
Looking at his education he also ended up studying at Loma Linda, aka Adventist HQ. I am sure most of these Adventists have been educated in their own little colleges and courses. I tried to look up Doug Batchelors education but it seems he doesnt have a normal wiki or any non biased sources I could check.
The point being I am willing to go out on a limb here and state that most SDA Pastors have degrees from some Adventist backed/funded University. Of course I will admit I could be wrong, but I know how many Cults work. Just like JW will say the same thing, they are all "educated" and have "degrees" but its by JW "colleges" ect...
And so what if I copy paste? Like I said to another user don't try and make out that they way you post is better than mine. My aim is to point people to Christ and I find that Pastors who are well versed in explaining things to people are better than me. If you don't like it tough! I like it.
I make it a point because whether you realize it or not, people tune you out when all you do is copypaste over and over. You also come off as unable to think and speak for yourself, I mean I am sure you can see this when other people like Bible Student spams his False Prophets site and stuff every 5 seconds.
I mean by all means go ahead and ignore my advice, but I can confidently say that people are not reading all of your copypaste specifically because they know its just that. People want to know YOU, speak to YOU not Walter Veith and Amazing Facts...
But you did not give detailed reason as to what you believe did you?
It was one short post, I believe in these follow up post I have been very detailed...
You attacked me personally and said I am a closet SDA and called the Adventists a cult. You said very little about the actual topic of this forum in your initial post that was clearly directed to me indirectly. Thankfully the person you replied to stayed out of it. Do you not see your rudeness coupled with your arrogance to put me down? You should change your attitude and grow up! I don't want to debate with someone who wants to win. This is about the Word of God not you!
Why is it an attack to call you a SDA? Everyone who is familiar with their teachings and even those who are not but end up following the links to everything you post can see its all SDA. I find it is weird that you are so offended in me making the pretty obvious statement that you are SDA when someone asks if you are either SDA or JW.
And I gave my personal view of SDA, did you expect me to in a response to a person asking if you were SDA or JW to delve into a massive post explaining all the incorrect doctrines of SDA and why I consider it a Cult? Come on now, it was the FIRST post. As you can see as we have continued the dialogue I have indeed given detailed reasons and objections to their Doctrine and explained thoroughly why I believe they are a Cult.
The reason I didnt go into detail is because I was answering a question and giving my perspective quickly. I dont know why you think that is unusual...
So I'm not goig to deal with your ramblings which are n't biblical at at all. in most of my discussions with you, you've been mostly wrong.
Of course you believe it is wrong, only SDA know the Truth and I wholly and fully reject many of their Doctrines. Good thing your and their beliefs dont affect me, I stand by the Bible not mens perspective which indeed is what SDA is founded in, or should I say womans...
I follow the Bible not a religion or its leaders thank you but if you want to believe the opposite go ahead.
Well based off of everything you have ever written it is painfully obvious that you follow SDA, you can say you dont, but you do...
Its why I haven't called you a blasphemer even when I vehemently disagree with you most times.
I call out blasphemy when people present ideologies that go directly against the Personhood of Christ, or the methodology of Salvation. This idea that Jesus is Michael is an incorrect statement about the Personhood of Christ and therefore to call Him Michael is Blasphemy. The idea of IJ goes directly against the finished work of Christ on the Cross and wholly and totally impacts Salvation, therefore that idea is blasphemous.
Your idea about the Pope or the Vatican being the Anti Christ, while something I disagree with, doesnt impact the Personhood of Christ or Salvation, therefore I wouldnt call it Blasphemy, I would (if we were debating it) point out why I believe you are wrong and give the reason why I believe differently.
Things you teach are blasphemy and I will call you out on it, period...
You clearly didn't even understand what I posted if you even bothered to read it. Jesus is not only known as Michael, He is also known as the angel of the Lord. And the angel of the Lord accepts worship.
I replied to this, you didnt read it...
Michael the Archangel or just the Archangel raises the dead with His voice. He is none other than Christ Himself because only God can raise the dead.
No the voice doesnt raise the dead, you again INSERT YOUR IDEOLOGY on top of Scripture that doesnt state what you are implying. It simply says Christ comes with a VOICE OF an Archangel, and as I explained that makes sense in light of the fact that Christ comes with ALL OF HIS ANGELS.
And that same verse literally say THE LORD in it, Jesus raises the dead, Michael isnt mentioned, however you refuse to read the text for what it says and insert your own ideology into it...
So what are you doing on this forum apart from trying to put down my beliefs?
I am not putting down your beliefs I am countering them with Biblical Truth, so those who have not taken a side can read both sides and decide for themselves which they believe to be the Truth. Also to inform others who are not aware about SDA and their Doctrine, so they can see what SDA really states..
The doctrine of SDA's is not held by every cult because its not a cult.
So in context of what I was saying is that the idea that Michael is Jesus is held by MANY CULTS, the most prominent one apart from SDA is the other off shoot of Millerities, Jehovah Witness. THAT is what I am and was saying. Look at who else believes it, Bible Student and his Cult...
And its only aminority who have the truth
Right, all the SDA and not those apart from them, unless they align with SDA Doctrine, which is pretty much the definition of a Cult...
I know more about Ellen G White than you do clearly. And you are wrong as I said previously about them believing Jesus returned in 1844. That is a lie! I would explain with proof but I don't want to, not to you anyway. Just know that you're very wrong.
I admitted that I mixed EGW and Charles T Russel up, easy to do when they both come from the same False Religion to begin with and both try and make up some False Doctrines to uphold the Failed Prophecy of their once leader, William Miller.
The SDA's are right about the investigative judgement but I'm sure you got your information from people who disagree with them.
Yeah I got it from the writers of the Bible, the IJ is heresy and blasphemy, I hope one day you wake up and recognize this fact and repent from teaching it and lying about Jesus Christ to others..
If you think that's why you're a coward you clearly missed the point. You knew I would read what you wrote. In all the exchanges I have had with you it has been about the Bible and yes we have had differences but this attempt at denigrating me is so sad.
Seriously, you have your panties in a bunch because I said you are Closet SDA, you are CLEARLY SDA IDK why this is such a big deal to you and you consider it denigrating to point it out. If you called me a Christian I wouldnt get mad clearly everything I write shows me to be one, if I was out here linking copypasta from LDS sites I wouldnt get mad or consider it degrading to be called a Mormon.
Are you ashamed of Seven Day Adventists or something? It sure seems like it considering your reaction to me answering someone saying that is what you are..
All in all you didn't know much about Adventism at all and clearly just read about it from people who are against Adventism and then relayed it here. You couldn't even get their history right. I am not going to go round in circles with you. You're not worth it and I don't want to. So God bless but in the future I think its best you avoid me. I pray God opens your eyes and ears to the truth about this subject too.
One last thing, stop calling me a cult member. I am not one.
I know plenty about Adventism, the only thing I got wrong was the mix up between EGW cover up of why Jesus didnt come back in 1844 and Charles T Russel cover up.
It has been a long time since I was studying that, but I know enough to know EGW is a False Prophet and that SDA has plenty of False Doctrines, in fact they were basically considered a Cult in the same vein as JW until the 50's.
And regardless of your opinion or desire, as long as you continue to teach their unbiblical doctrines on this site, I will continue to expose them and show why they are incorrect and call it what I believe it to be. I hope others dont go down that path of accepting SDA teachings.
Also dont take it personal, I would be and do, do this to anyone I believe is teaching something that is False, whether it be Art and his Gnosticism, Bible Student and his False Prophet and False Religion, AS and his amalgamation of Islam, Christianity and Occultism in his made up Religion, or if there would be Mormon on here or Jehovah Witness teaching their lies.
And I have a feeling you would have no problem (prior to me calling your False Teachings and False Prophet out) of me doing that towards them and their False Teachings...
