Once Saved Always Saved?
- Thread starter phipps
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Red Sky at Morning
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I wonder what you might make of the way J D Farag puts things? I really like the simplicity of the way he explains the Gospel.
Well it is the ABC of Christianity.
But there are more letters in the Alphabet.
But it's a great start.
Beg Him for His Spirit.
Say you can't breathe without Him.
Refuse to go on without His Spirit.
Play dead. Whatever.
L0L.
Douglas Summers
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[QUOTE="TokiEl, post: 166959, member: 1601"]No i'm honestly not so smug that i believe Heaven is assured.
You can call it a sense of humility.[/QUOTE] Being smug is for disbelievers, Humility is for born again believers.
You can call it a sense of humility.[/QUOTE] Being smug is for disbelievers, Humility is for born again believers.
Douglas Summers
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Red Sky at Morning
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Growing pains! Been there, no worries bro.
Claire Rousseau
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Women are commanded not to preach in church. I wouldn’t dare to disobey that.
This is an open, public forum.
It does NOT say women cannot share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with others, and in fact, it commands us to.
Look, Toki, I’m not trying to put you on the chopping block or disrespect you. I am not trying to lead you into promoting sin. I think you are absolutely correct in hating sin and it is good that you are taking a stand against all manner of sin.
My only concern is that you do not seem to really understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I think that your intentions & heart are in the right place and that you seem to want salvation, which is why I want to help you in any way I can so you may fully understand the Gospel and receive salvation that God wants to give you.
You need to first understand that you are unworthy of it. You do not deserve it, and you never will. No matter how much you think you do, you don’t, and God has every right to just toss you into Hell and let you burn because you are wicked.
You get that, right?
Claire Rousseau
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Apology accepted, it happens to all of us.
Daciple
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Look brother, I appreciate your contribution when you take the stance of preaching Christs Life Death and Resurrection for Salvation. I am not trying to be mean or harsh here but most of the things you think you are an expert on, you are not, and many of them I wholly disagree with.
When it comes to Conspiracies (realities that are top secret) I am definitely not unaware of any of them, I have spent copious amounts of time researching these things. I have been on this site since the day it was created about 9 years ago. I have come to the conclusion that while I agree with many they are essentially a waste of time in the end. All that really matters is the Gospel period.
Also when it comes to you interpreting Bible prophecies, I think on much of that, you are wrong, hence why in those threads I have spent time explaining trying to explain and show you why I believe you are wrong.
Absolutely not, I am mostly concerned with preaching the Gospel, giving my Testimony and explaining why I agree or disagree with other Non Salvation Topics such as Eschatology, Calvinism, Eternal Salvation ect.
You are completely incorrect that I am in any way excusing Sin, not once have I ever done so. I have however continually called out your absolutely incorrect Theology that people who are Saved DONT Sin or DONT break the 10 Commandments. I have and will continue each time that you make these false statements show you and everyone else the hypocrisy of your statements because when you say that you are actually LYING.
That is NOT the Truth, you and I and everyone here who IS saved, all break the 10 Commandments, and if we are HONEST with ourselves and each other we break them continually and probably daily. HONESTLY we all definitely Sin DAILY without a doubt. So not only are you breaking the 10 Commandments by saying that YOU dont lie or dont break the 10 Commandments, which I dont care to much about because that is between you and God, but when you TEACH that others who do (like you do) break the 10 Commandments ARE NOT CHRISTS, well thats where I draw the line.
That is where you see me expose your False Doctrine and eventually show that to the Forum that YOU INDEED break the 10 Commands, like you have done when you cuss at me and slander me. The FACTS and TRUTH is, even tho we do Sin we are STILL CHRISTS, we can literally go thru each and every person in the Bible and show how they broke the 10 Commandments, yet are still Christs!!!
That is literally the POINT of Jesus, its called Grace and Mercy, and I hope you become more familiar with these aspects of Christ. As I have said before those who are aware of their Sins, that they indeed CAN NOT keep themselves from breaking the 10 Commandments or whatever other aspect one wants to acknowledge Sin, they become MORE dependent on Christ if they are Saved!! I would never condone Sin, or tell people go Sin, no sir I say strive for perfection but when we fall short RUN TO CHRIST FOR FORGIVENESS.
It is not ME who can keep anything, but the Holy Spirit, my duty and your duty is to die to Self and allow the Holy Spirit to conform us to Christ. As I tried to point out, this is called SANCTIFICATION.
You however are teaching that people are JUSTIFIED ONLY if they dont break the 10 Commandments or Sin and that sir is a LIE, it is FALSE and NOT THE TRUTH. We are Justified ONLY because of the Blood of Christ and THAT IS IT, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with our Performance, or Sin or anything else. You however want to tell Born Again believers, if they struggle with Sin then they are NOT Saved, they are not Born Again.
That is why I have and will always contend against you when you try and teach this FALSE ideology!!!
Look brother, I could easily lob that against you, I mean you literally have just about every single professing Christian on here telling you, you are INCORRECT about this, yet YOU refuse to change your mind regardless of the evidence we present to you. However I wouldnt use that term to describe you in the least. I believe a bigot is one who spews hatred, and I definitely do not spew hatred towards you whatsoever.
Nor do I believe that you do this, you just have an opinion and I know that it is wrong and call you out on it...
As I stated never once have I nor any other Christian on here excused Sin, we are simply being HONEST about the REALITY of living as a Christian, and YOU are utterly and totally wrong to try and push your seeds of doubt into Christians minds that they are not saved because they are struggling with Sin or are not perfect. YOU need to be HONEST with yourself and realize that YOU are not perfect and YOU struggle with Sin.
Pride is to say you dont Sin and guess what Pride is? A Sin, I have read many many many of your posts and many times they drip with Pride, I mean you even say you know EVERYTHING. Sorry brother you dont, not only do you not know EVERYTHING, you know hardly A THING. All of us here know NOTHING when it comes down to it. The only thing we DO KNOW that really matters is Christ Crucified, His Grace and Mercy.
As Claire and Red have tried to show you, on this point you are completely incorrect and we all hope you come to understand this and stop lying to others about it. ...
So i must watch my tounge and not put people down.
I felt the pain in my heart.
Of course i do not want to hurt others... i guess i felt unappreciated but still no excuse.
I'm a work in progress.
When it comes to salvation i know well that it is because of the Blood of Jesus Christ spilt for remission of sins.
And i do not apologize for being strict concerning sins but for hurting hearts.
I felt the pain in my heart.
Of course i do not want to hurt others... i guess i felt unappreciated but still no excuse.
I'm a work in progress.
When it comes to salvation i know well that it is because of the Blood of Jesus Christ spilt for remission of sins.
And i do not apologize for being strict concerning sins but for hurting hearts.
Daciple
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We are all a work in progress, thats Sanctification. And I have no problem with being strict concerning Sins, it simply to declare that if one does Sin they cant be Christs, that would be to exclude all humans on Earth, including Paul and the rest of the Apostles...
And you dont hurt my heart brother, I feel no ill will towards you, God Bless!!!
I wanted to shut you down but felt terrible about that.
I know you love the Lord so sorry my bad.
No i understand perhaps not perfect but who does ?
The Lord and i go back a long time... before i knew Him actually.
I'm not here to fool you. I have spoken a lot of truths.
And you know as well that the Lord could be somewhat harsh.
But i am not supposed to be that.
AspiringSoul
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My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all;
The trinitarian doctrine states that The Father Son and Holy spirit are coequals.
One statement is from Jesus.
The other is from the Catholic church who you all believe is fallen anyway.
As I've said many times over, king Henry the 8th is the reason why you people still flow the trinitarian doctrine. He would have completely banned the trinitarian doctrine if momentum allowed, but the Protestant German wife he was offered, was ugly, so he got so mad he decided to just go somewhere in between the two....and kept some of the Catholic beliefs. He was conflicted because going against Catholicism divided the nation and deep down he believed in the church but he hated the pope siding with France and Spain.
The trinitarian doctrine states that The Father Son and Holy spirit are coequals.
One statement is from Jesus.
The other is from the Catholic church who you all believe is fallen anyway.
As I've said many times over, king Henry the 8th is the reason why you people still flow the trinitarian doctrine. He would have completely banned the trinitarian doctrine if momentum allowed, but the Protestant German wife he was offered, was ugly, so he got so mad he decided to just go somewhere in between the two....and kept some of the Catholic beliefs. He was conflicted because going against Catholicism divided the nation and deep down he believed in the church but he hated the pope siding with France and Spain.
phipps
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I disagree with the man in the video. What he is saying is that for example if someone makes a public commitment to Christ but later on becomes an atheist or a Satanist that person wasn't really saved in the first place. The Bible tells us of many people who were indeed saved but chose a different path to God's and were lost. The main example I gave in this forum was king Saul. He was chosen by God. Samuel had said to him, "...the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man... And it was so, that when he had turned his back to go from Samuel, God gave him another heart: and all those signs came to pass that day." 1 Samuel 10:6-9. Saul was "turned into another man" (spiritually speaking), and God "gave him another heart". Saul was a converted man. He was saved. But sadly later in his life he grieved away the Holy Spirit and had a miserable end. Saul is a good example of someone who was once saved but died not saved. Is the Bible lying? So once saved always saved cannot be biblical.
Being saved is not a one time event. It is a choice and an ongoing process of being transformed into Christ's likeness. The process can be stopped and even reversed, we need to daily re-confirm our choice to surrender our will, heart, mind and body to be conformed & transformed & re-created to have character like Him.
Jesus said to those who were professing to believe in Him, "If you continue in My word, you are truly DISCIPLES OF MINE." (John 8:31-32) Jesus is saying you can identify His disciples by the fact that they continue in His word, and are therefore sanctified in the process.
"If you continue in my Word" is a conditional clause denoted by the word "If." Only those believers who continue in the word are disciples. Those who choose not to are not disciples. Salvation is a process that requires obedience and perseverance and not just a one-time moment of belief. That is why we are instructed to work out our salvation with fear and trembling and are encouraged to fight the good fight and to finish the race.
In the parable of the sower in Luke 8:5-15 Jesus told His disciples that it was indeed possible to believe but then turn away from salvation. Notice that, among those who heard the Word of God, Jesus described four classes of people:
- Hear the Word but reject it (verse 12);
- Believe for a while, but fall away when temptation comes (verse 13);
- Believe but bear no fruit because by their lifestyle they show that they value riches and the pleasures of this world more than eternal life (verse 14);
- Hear the Word, keep it, and bear abundant fruit.
Jesus makes it clear that only those who bear fruit will be saved. Understand, Jesus was not teaching salvation by bearing fruit. He was simply restating the truth He declared in John 15: that just as the life of a branch is in the vine, a Christian’s only assurance for eternal life was to retain a living connection with Him, the natural result being the production of fruit.
Douglas Summers
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You and I have different Lords. OT Israel has nothing to do with the promises to the Church. You are missing out on the Joy of salvation, free from works of the Law, but by the indwelling Holy Spirit as a premiant possession, Something the OT Saints did not have. If you could lose YOUR salvation, you must be carrying it on your key chain or in your pocket instead of a supernatural change in the renewing of your mind and heart, and stop making things up about the Bible that is not even close to what you make up in your own mind. And yes, It make me angry that you peddle such apostasy to the weak in Christ.
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Salvation is not a one time shot of Jesus but a walk with the Lord until the end. There are those who think they can live in sin and still be saved because of His righteousness and grace but He will have to tell them to go away.
We repent as in stop sinning when we believe in Him. Sure there might be slip ups but we get up and press on to perfection.
We are the salt of the earth preserving what is good and right.
phipps
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Once Saved, Always Saved?
ONE OF the greatest deceptions of these closing days is the widespread teaching that once a man has passed from a standing, of “condemnation” to a standing of “justification,” he can never again come under condemnation before God to the extent of being lost. It is claimed that no matter how completely he may afterward abandon himself to drunkenness, thievery, adultery, profanity, or any other sin even if he should die while practicing one or all of these sins-there is not the remotest possibility that he will be lost. He may lose his fellowship, but he cannot lose his salvation.
According to this teaching, being born again does not necessarily lead to discontinuance of sin. The instant a man believes in Christ and by faith accepts Him as Saviour, he receives eternal life. This being the case, no amount of subsequent sinning can deprive him of this life. If a man dies in his sins, he is not damned; instead he is believed to go to be with Jesus!
A leading champion of this theory has written: “God wants a clean people. And they can be if they will humble themselves and confess their sins. To refuse to do so is to invite the judgment of God in weakness and sickness, and persistent unrepentance may result in the Lord taking them home, and then they will face the judgment seat of Christ.” But on this very point Jesus said, “You ... shall die in your sins: whither I go, you cannot come.” John 8:21.
The writer goes on: “Can the believer continue in sin and go unjudged?” He does not ask, “Can the believer continue in sin without being lost?” Indeed he teaches that a man can continue in sin until his last breath and still be saved. The Lord will visit weakness and sickness upon a man to make him “clean,” but if he persists in wickedness, then the Lord will take him “home.” There he will face the ‘Judgment seat of Christ,” not, however, for the purpose of receiving condemnation. There and then the final cleansing takes place before he is assigned a place in the kingdom. This is supposed to be the significance of facing the “judgment seat of Christ.”
The difference between this belief and the Catholic doctrine of purgatory is not great. In purgatory sinners are retained for a time to be cleansed from their sins before they are admitted to heaven. In this belief they are cleansed at the judgment seat of Christ before being assigned a place in the kingdom. According to Catholic theology, the sinner must have all defilement removed before he can come into Christ’s presence. Thus purgatory gives hope to those who die in their sins. In this belief the sinner comes before Christ with his defilement. The Apostle John, writing of the New Jerusalem, wherein Christ sits at the judgment seat, said, “There shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defiles.” Revelation 21:27. Just what explanation is made of this verse and other similar verses is not known.
1 once heard a preacher deliver a radio sermon on the prodigal son in which he emphasized that the prodigal “never ceased to be his father’s son.” Meeting him after the broadcast and knowing him to be a believer in the once-saved, always-saved doctrine, I said, “This son wasted his life living with harlots. Suppose he had died while living that way?” His unhesitating reply was, “He would have gone straight to heaven.” Holding the doctrine he did, he could not consistently answer otherwise.
The problem is, How can this view be made consistent with Scripture? John said, “There shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defiles.” And Jesus said, “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” And what of the claim that the prodigal son “never ceased to be his father’s son,” even while wasting his living “with harlots”-as the elder brother charged? Jesus gives the answer in the parable of the prodigal son, when He quotes the father as saying, “This my son ... was lost, and is found.” He was his father’s son; but he was a lost son. The same can be said of all who have turned back from Christ into the practice of sin. They are lost sons. If they die in that state, they certainly will not be taken home for cleansing; the only cleansing for sin that has ever been provided is the blood of Jesus Christ. Had the prodigal son continued in his sinning, he would have continued to be lost. Says the Scripture, ‘Whore mongers . . . shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” And Paul said plainly that adulterers shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10.) This would have ruled the prodigal son out, had he died in his sins.
The once-saved, always-saved believers class such as “carnal Christians.” If there were such (but there are not) the lake of fire would still be their lot, for Paul declares, “To the carnally minded is death.” Romans 8:6. "If you live after the flesh, you shall die.” Verse 13. What a man does in this life has a great deal to do with his destiny. According to the Scriptures, a grace which gives license to sin is not grace; it is presumption. Jude speaks of some who “pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness.” Jude 4, Revised Standard Version. Moffatt’s Translation speaks of those who “pervert the grace of our God into immorality.”
Despite these warnings, a believer in “pure grace” boldly says: “When a child of God deliberately sins against the light he has received, he can be sure [Of being lost? Far from it!] that there is coming a time of real judgment, not unto condemnation, but either a chastening (as we shall see later) or a shameful appearing before the judgment Seat of Christ at his coming.” Why should a drunkard or an adulterer care to repent if he is made to believe that at the judgment seat of Christ he can be absolutely sure of eternal salvation despite his continued sinning? The author is not talking of a sin that is committed because of a sudden temptation or because of unwatchfulness. He is claiming that if a man who deliberately practices sin is not stopped by chastisement, he still need have no fear of condemnation. If that is not encouraging the “carnally minded” to live securely in their carnal ways, what is it doing? It was on this point that Paul most earnestly warned, “Be not deceived.”
ONE OF the greatest deceptions of these closing days is the widespread teaching that once a man has passed from a standing, of “condemnation” to a standing of “justification,” he can never again come under condemnation before God to the extent of being lost. It is claimed that no matter how completely he may afterward abandon himself to drunkenness, thievery, adultery, profanity, or any other sin even if he should die while practicing one or all of these sins-there is not the remotest possibility that he will be lost. He may lose his fellowship, but he cannot lose his salvation.
According to this teaching, being born again does not necessarily lead to discontinuance of sin. The instant a man believes in Christ and by faith accepts Him as Saviour, he receives eternal life. This being the case, no amount of subsequent sinning can deprive him of this life. If a man dies in his sins, he is not damned; instead he is believed to go to be with Jesus!
A leading champion of this theory has written: “God wants a clean people. And they can be if they will humble themselves and confess their sins. To refuse to do so is to invite the judgment of God in weakness and sickness, and persistent unrepentance may result in the Lord taking them home, and then they will face the judgment seat of Christ.” But on this very point Jesus said, “You ... shall die in your sins: whither I go, you cannot come.” John 8:21.
The writer goes on: “Can the believer continue in sin and go unjudged?” He does not ask, “Can the believer continue in sin without being lost?” Indeed he teaches that a man can continue in sin until his last breath and still be saved. The Lord will visit weakness and sickness upon a man to make him “clean,” but if he persists in wickedness, then the Lord will take him “home.” There he will face the ‘Judgment seat of Christ,” not, however, for the purpose of receiving condemnation. There and then the final cleansing takes place before he is assigned a place in the kingdom. This is supposed to be the significance of facing the “judgment seat of Christ.”
The difference between this belief and the Catholic doctrine of purgatory is not great. In purgatory sinners are retained for a time to be cleansed from their sins before they are admitted to heaven. In this belief they are cleansed at the judgment seat of Christ before being assigned a place in the kingdom. According to Catholic theology, the sinner must have all defilement removed before he can come into Christ’s presence. Thus purgatory gives hope to those who die in their sins. In this belief the sinner comes before Christ with his defilement. The Apostle John, writing of the New Jerusalem, wherein Christ sits at the judgment seat, said, “There shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defiles.” Revelation 21:27. Just what explanation is made of this verse and other similar verses is not known.
1 once heard a preacher deliver a radio sermon on the prodigal son in which he emphasized that the prodigal “never ceased to be his father’s son.” Meeting him after the broadcast and knowing him to be a believer in the once-saved, always-saved doctrine, I said, “This son wasted his life living with harlots. Suppose he had died while living that way?” His unhesitating reply was, “He would have gone straight to heaven.” Holding the doctrine he did, he could not consistently answer otherwise.
The problem is, How can this view be made consistent with Scripture? John said, “There shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defiles.” And Jesus said, “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.” And what of the claim that the prodigal son “never ceased to be his father’s son,” even while wasting his living “with harlots”-as the elder brother charged? Jesus gives the answer in the parable of the prodigal son, when He quotes the father as saying, “This my son ... was lost, and is found.” He was his father’s son; but he was a lost son. The same can be said of all who have turned back from Christ into the practice of sin. They are lost sons. If they die in that state, they certainly will not be taken home for cleansing; the only cleansing for sin that has ever been provided is the blood of Jesus Christ. Had the prodigal son continued in his sinning, he would have continued to be lost. Says the Scripture, ‘Whore mongers . . . shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” And Paul said plainly that adulterers shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10.) This would have ruled the prodigal son out, had he died in his sins.
The once-saved, always-saved believers class such as “carnal Christians.” If there were such (but there are not) the lake of fire would still be their lot, for Paul declares, “To the carnally minded is death.” Romans 8:6. "If you live after the flesh, you shall die.” Verse 13. What a man does in this life has a great deal to do with his destiny. According to the Scriptures, a grace which gives license to sin is not grace; it is presumption. Jude speaks of some who “pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness.” Jude 4, Revised Standard Version. Moffatt’s Translation speaks of those who “pervert the grace of our God into immorality.”
Despite these warnings, a believer in “pure grace” boldly says: “When a child of God deliberately sins against the light he has received, he can be sure [Of being lost? Far from it!] that there is coming a time of real judgment, not unto condemnation, but either a chastening (as we shall see later) or a shameful appearing before the judgment Seat of Christ at his coming.” Why should a drunkard or an adulterer care to repent if he is made to believe that at the judgment seat of Christ he can be absolutely sure of eternal salvation despite his continued sinning? The author is not talking of a sin that is committed because of a sudden temptation or because of unwatchfulness. He is claiming that if a man who deliberately practices sin is not stopped by chastisement, he still need have no fear of condemnation. If that is not encouraging the “carnally minded” to live securely in their carnal ways, what is it doing? It was on this point that Paul most earnestly warned, “Be not deceived.”
Douglas Summers
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A saved man can not be lost and a saved man does not practice sin. You would know that if you were born again. You speak of carnal reasoning to Spiritual rebirth, You ask questions of why when you should know by rebirth. You are the enemy to the cross of Christ and teach self effort for salvation. The man who claims such things that he can continue in sin at will after claiming salvation has never meet Christ. You should seek Him.
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