Once Saved Always Saved?

[Claire Rousseau]

Jesus Christ who ratified the Ten Commandments with His blood will see to it that those who are His do not break them.

So you are claiming that you have not sinned after salvation?

 

[Claire Rousseau]

But that is exactly what John is teaching.

Since the Spirit of Jesus Christ has taken up residence within our body... it is impossible to sin.

Sure there might be struggle but we overcome every time.

Not because of ourselves but because of Him who is in us.





If we claim to be without sin before the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin we lie. If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. In other words we were all sinners before we came to Jesus Christ and His spirit took up residence within us.

Now we sin no more. We might struggle and sweat but we do not give in to sin. We simply do not break the Ten Commandments. We are the totally trustworthy and untouchables.

So are you saying that if a person commits sin, that indicates that they are not saved?

 

[TokiEl]

So you are claiming that you have not sinned after salvation?

Of course i do not break the Ten Commandments.

I love Jesus Christ and do not lie cheat steal or kill.

So are you saying that if a person commits sin, that indicates that they are not saved?

Of course if one breaks the Ten Commandments one neither love Jesus nor obey Him.

 

[Claire Rousseau]

Of course i do not break the Ten Commandments.

I love Jesus Christ and do not lie cheat steal or kill.




Of course if one breaks the Ten Commandments one neither love Jesus nor obey Him.

Did you know that the Ten Commandments are not the whole of the law?

Matthew 5:
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Have you ever lusted after a woman? If you or her are married, that makes you guilty of adultery. If you are not married, that’s still fornication.

“For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.”.....Ecclesiastes 7:20

“Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”....1 Corinthians 10:12

 

[priemier]

Well, the short answer is: no.

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Hebrews 6:4-6)

Aka, if you fall away after walking with God(not just backsliding, but complete negligence and rejection), it is impossible to be brought back to be saved.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Well, the short answer is: no.

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Hebrews 6:4-6)

Aka, if you fall away after walking with God(not just backsliding, but complete negligence and rejection), it is impossible to be brought back to be saved.

Only when you get chance, but I wonder what you might make if this alternative explanation?

 

[TokiEl]

Did you know that the Ten Commandments are not the whole of the law?

Matthew 5:
27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Have you ever lusted after a woman? If you or her are married, that makes you guilty of adultery. If you are not married, that’s still fornication.

“For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.”.....Ecclesiastes 7:20

“Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.”....1 Corinthians 10:12

The Ten Commandments written by the finger of God and ratified by the Blood of Jesus Christ is what we must strive to obey.

Jesus Christ who is Holy upped the ante and said do not even fantasize about sex. Great advice. Since we are spiritual beings our thoughts have power and persuasions. So it's best to throw those thoughts out as soon as they arise else one might pursue them.

Imagine if everybody loved Jesus Christ and did not lie steal cheat or kill. Earth would be great !

 

[Daciple]

Of course if one breaks the Ten Commandments one neither love Jesus nor obey Him.

Of course i do not break the Ten Commandments.

I love Jesus Christ and do not lie cheat steal or kill.

First off you just lied, because you lie all the time even tho you are not willing to admit it. What else does Jesus say about the 10 Commandments?

Matt 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

You want to tell me you have never looked upon a woman in lust? If you say no, well you are lying...

We have been over this with him @Claire Rousseau he wont admit the Truth, he dodges and deflects, he refuses to admit that he Sins after he says he has been saved.

You and I know that we still Sin, we dont want to but we are Flesh, and we know that we have an Advocate when we do fall short. I say lets Praise Christ for Him still loving us even tho we still fail Him. We know Toki isnt preaching correctly to say that if you Sin you dont love Christ, he sins but he still loves Christ and Christ loves him!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Daciple

Just to complete that point, from your experience, do you feel some things are sin now that didn't bother you when you first believed?

 

[TokiEl]

First off you just lied, because you lie all the time even tho you are not willing to admit it. What else does Jesus say about the 10 Commandments?

Matt 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

You want to tell me you have never looked upon a woman in lust? If you say no, well you are lying...

We have been over this with him @Claire Rousseau he wont admit the Truth, he dodges and deflects, he refuses to admit that he Sins after he says he has been saved.

You and I know that we still Sin, we dont want to but we are Flesh, and we know that we have an Advocate when we do fall short. I say lets Praise Christ for Him still loving us even tho we still fail Him. We know Toki isnt preaching correctly to say that if you Sin you dont love Christ, he sins but he still loves Christ and Christ loves him!

The Ten Commandments which we broke before we knew Jesus Christ we now uphold with the help of Jesus Christ.

Love God and love our neighbours is the condensed version of the Ten Commandments.

It is actually Commanded by God himself to Love Him and one another.

And that we do by obeying the Ten Commandments and help and care and never lie steal cheat or kill our neigbour.

This we cannot break ! if we are His.

 

[Daciple]

@Daciple

Just to complete that point, from your experience, do you feel some things are sin now that didn't bother you when you first believed?

Of course! This verse becomes more and more applicable than when I was first saved.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

The fact is, the longer you are Saved, the closer you draw to Christ the more you see that you are Sinful, the more you realize that you need to depend on Him.

Some people want to believe they are not Sinning, but they are, all the time. Those who recognize this are imo going realize just how much they need Christ and look more to Him.

And that we do by obeying the Ten Commandments and help and care and never lie steal cheat or kill our neigbour.

This we cannot break ! if we are His.

Guess you are not His because I am sure if we were to follow you around and be able to look into your head and heart, we would all see just how much you are sinning, day in and day out. You can lie to yourself and us, but you cant lie to God, we all know you Sin, but thats okay because all you have to do is cling to Christ to help you with it!!!

I know I struggle all day every day, some Sins I overcome for years and then find myself back in the struggle again, its non stop constant battle. If I get to a point where I think I am not Sinning or not struggling, then I would probably start to worry. As long as I am struggling then I know that the Holy Spirit is dwelling in me, conforming me to Christ, perfecting me in Sanctification day by day...

Again I dont think Toki really understands the difference between Justification and Sanctification....

 

[TokiEl]

Guess you are not His because I am sure if we were to follow you around and be able to look into your head and heart, we would all see just how much you are sinning, day in and day out. You can lie to yourself and us, but you cant lie to God, we all know you Sin, but thats okay because all you have to do is cling to Christ to help you with it!!!

Are you a dawg ?

I know I struggle all day every day, some Sins I overcome for years and then find myself back in the struggle again, its non stop constant battle. If I get to a point where I think I am not Sinning or not struggling, then I would probably start to worry. As long as I am struggling then I know that the Holy Spirit is dwelling in me, conforming me to Christ, perfecting me in Sanctification day by day...

How about take your head out of your a$$ and start to think about how you can help others.

 

[Daciple]

How about take your head out of your a$$ and strart to think about how you can help others.

From the guy who says he isnt sinning lol comes to the surface when scrutinized...

Edit: I can only imagine how much you cuss and use the Lords Name in Vain when you dont even seem to have the ability from doing so on the internet, you know where you are literally looking over and deliberately seeing before hand everything you say before hitting return.

Again no skin off my back that you do it, but by the Standard you Judge other is how you will be Judged, dont forget that applies to everyone around you, not just how God Judges you...

Jesus still loves you tho!!

 

[TokiEl]

From the guy who says he isnt sinning lol comes to the surface when scrutinized...

Edit: I can only imagine how much you cuss and use the Lords Name in Vain when you dont even seem to have the ability from doing so on the internet, you know where you are literally looking over and deliberately seeing before hand everything you say before hitting return.

Again no skin off my back that you do it, but by the Standard you Judge other is how you will be Judged, dont forget that applies to everyone around you, not just how God Judges you...

Jesus still loves you tho!!

You have been to me an unappreciative bitter bigot.

But i forgive you.

 

[elsbet]

Of course i do not break the Ten Commandments.

I love Jesus Christ and do not lie cheat steal or kill.

Pffft. Name calling is slander my dear.

 

[Daciple]

You have been to me an unappreciative bitter bigot.

Really? How? By calling out your hypocrisy concerning this topic?

What should I be appreciate from you? Cussing at me? This?

Jesus Christ can you type less and do more ?

Are there perhaps not some homeless people to feed in your town ?

Also dont understand why you are calling me a bigot?

Because I dont agree with you? Because I refuse to let you go around trying to tell others and Christians that if they struggle with Sin, like you clearly do and myself as well, that they are not Christs? That Christ doesnt love them?

Sorry brother, every time this topic comes up and you start telling everyone that same thing I will counter it with Scripture then show how you are guilty of what you claim those who love Jesus cant be guilty of...

Maybe one day you will stop telling these lies and recognize your need for Christ in these areas, as you and I and everyone here all clearly need help in them..

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Really? How? By calling out your hypocrisy concerning this topic?

What should I be appreciate from you? Cussing at me? This?



Also dont understand why you are calling me a bigot?

Because I dont agree with you? Because I refuse to let you go around trying to tell others and Christians that if they struggle with Sin, like you clearly do and myself as well, that they are not Christs? That Christ doesnt love them?

Sorry brother, every time this topic comes up and you start telling everyone that same thing I will counter it with Scripture then show how you are guilty of what you claim those who love Jesus cant be guilty of...

Maybe one day you will stop telling these lies and recognize your need for Christ in these areas, as you and I and everyone here all clearly need help in them..

There is a longing in the voice of Keith Green for greater holiness. I love this song, and it says much to the current discussion.

 

[TokiEl]

Really? How? By calling out your hypocrisy concerning this topic?

What should I be appreciate from you? Cussing at me? This?

You don't even know.

You ought to appreciate my contribution informing you about realities that are top secret. And interpreting Bible prophecies that connect to geopolitical events and technology.

Instead you are mostly concerned about Scriptural speculation and excusing sins.

Also dont understand why you are calling me a bigot?

Because I dont agree with you? Because I refuse to let you go around trying to tell others and Christians that if they struggle with Sin, like you clearly do and myself as well, that they are not Christs? That Christ doesnt love them?

Sorry brother, every time this topic comes up and you start telling everyone that same thing I will counter it with Scripture then show how you are guilty of what you claim those who love Jesus cant be guilty of...

Maybe one day you will stop telling these lies and recognize your need for Christ in these areas, as you and I and everyone here all clearly need help in them..

A bigot is one who refuses to change his/her mind in the face of evidence to the contrary.

When Christendom is so plagued with sins then excusing it will not help one bit. Christians must obey the Commands of Jesus Christ.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You don't even know.

You ought to appreciate my contribution informing you about realities that are top secret. And interpreting Bible prophecies that connect to geopolitical events and technology.

Instead you are mostly concerned about Scriptural speculation and excusing sins.

A bigot is one who refuses to change his/her mind in the face of evidence to the contrary.

When Christendom is so plagued with sins then excusing it will not help one bit. Christians must obey the Commands of Jesus Christ.

I think we're just finding it frustrating that you can't see the difference between:-

1: the reality that genuine Christians may sin after having been saved and need to repent in order to restore right relationship with the Father, via 1 John 1:9, and;

2: a kind of Christian Libitarianism which might say something like "go ahead, your sins are paid for anyway" it's "not that important".

We have each tried to share with you that real Christian experience (including our own) means you may continue to do #1.

Nobody has tried to suggest you follow the advice of the Laodacean #2 "Christianity".

 

[TokiEl]

I think we're just finding it frustrating that you can't see the difference between:-

1: the reality that genuine Christians may sin after having been saved and need to repent in order to restore right relationship with the Father, via 1 John 1:9, and;

2: a kind of Christian Libitarianism which might say something like "go ahead, your sins are paid for anyway" it's "not that important".

We have each tried to share with you that real Christian experience (including our own) means you may continue to do #1.

Nobody has tried to suggest you follow the advice of the Laodacean #2 "Christianity".

In our world the majority is always wrong.

It is not possible to break the Ten Commandments if one is born of God.

If the Spirit of Jesus Christ lives in us it simply is not possible to break them.