Why did God kill?

[meximonk]

ok, why have "instructions" for many other things, but not for harming an animal to eat?
phipps response came closer to a proper answer, but it still does not explain why it wasnt a commandment.

Sin was allowed to enter the world despite God's warning to man. It's where the Pandora's box story came from. God tells man not to do something, man does it anyways. Then, when man does what God tells him not to do, and it blows up in man's face, he blames God. Same old song for 6,000 years.

 

[phipps]

ok, why have "instructions" for many other things, but not for harming an animal to eat?
phipps response came closer to a proper answer, but it still does not explain why it wasnt a commandment.

You are not going to get a satisfactory answer because we are not God as I told you before.

To add to what I posted, the commandments of God are about God's relationship with us and our relationship with each other. The commandments are not about animals.

 

[A Freeman]

Oh, and by the way, commandments is an incorrect translation. In Hebrew, it's "Instructions".

Nonsense. The first five books of the Bible are referred to as THE LAW (Torah), because they contain God's COMMANDMENTS to mankind. They aren't polite requests, optional or even just good advice; they are The COMMANDments of God, given to us to protect us from evil and to set and keep us free. The same COMMANDMENTS that all of our man-made legislation, rules, policies, ordinances, "codes" and religious dogma, traditions, etc. make of no effect.

For an example of the Hebrew translation into English, please see: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/exodus/15-26.htm

For an example of the Greek translated into English, please see: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/15-6.htm

Sin is defined in Scripture as disobeying (transgressing) The Law (1 John 3:4). The wages of sin are DEATH (Ezek. 18:4, 20, Rom. 6:23). While everyone has the option (free-will) to obey or disobey God's COMMANDments, those who continue to do so will find themselves in The Fire on Judgment Day for their unrepentant criminal/sinful behavior, as we've been repeatedly warned for thousands of years (Deut. 30:15-20, Mal. 4, Rev. 20:12-15, 21:8).

 

[A Freeman]

since i have not yet received a proper answer, i would also like to add another related question:

why would god create an earth where beings must kill and destroy other beings (via consumption) in order to survive?

im not here to debate it, but i would like an explanation.

The simple answer to your question is no created (spirit) Being has ever directly killed or destroyed another (spirit) Being. That power is reserved for Father (God) alone (Matt. 10:28), and He reserves that right to be used only when there is no hope of redemption, i.e. to allow that spirit-Being (Soul) to continue would be unjust and detrimental to others.

So it sounds like what you're asking is why Father has created a world where animals kill each other for food, and where humans kill other animals for food.

To properly answer that question, it's necessary to understand WHY we are here (on Earth) and what the purpose of this temporary human existence is all about.

The reason we were imprisoned here in this lunatic asylum/prison reform school we call Earth is because we joined forces with the most selfish, insane Being there has ever been, in a coup attempt against our Creator. We were literally blinded by our own arrogance and ignorance into believing we could kill other spiritual Beings (Angels/Souls), including The SUPREME Being known here on Earth as God (our Creator/Heavenly Father).

The purpose of this reform school is rehabilitation, to teach us how to be good, and learn self-control under the most extreme conditions. That way we can eventually be released back out into the universe, to be among our REAL (spiritual) family and friends with the certain knowledge we will NEVER harm another, nor destroy anything in Father's Creation ever again.

As a rehab center, this world is therefore FILLED with lessons for those who are spiritually awake and paying attention. Day and night teach us to distinguish light (good/true wisdom) from dark (evil/ignorance). The seasons teach us the truth about reincarnation, with each year culminating in winter (the season of death and decay), to be followed by spring, the season of rebirth. Everything about this world is temporary and fleeting, which is likewise designed to get us to focus on our eternal, spiritual lives instead of this temporary human existence.

With the above in mind, can you see please the reason why we are surrounded by animals killing each other and why humans themselves kill and eat animals?

Would not all of the death and destruction not eventually sicken the Soul, and teach it why it does NOT want to be here, in prison/hell, why it does NOT want to be inside a human animal anymore, and why it should NEVER act like an animal ever again IF it is allowed to go home? The earth is literally soaked with the blood of humans and animals, while the most evil Beings among us plot and plan to murder over 90% of us. How many animals have been uselessly killed to further the WITCHCRAFT we refer to as the chemical and pharmaceutical industries, in the name of "science"?

@phipps is correct in pointing out that it was not always this way. In the beginning in the Garden of Eden, everything was provided for both the spirit-Being and the human, allowing us to focus on the spiritual food (Wisdom/Truth) that Father was teaching us. Unfortunately, we decided we liked being the human animal, a fault that virtually this entire world still suffers from today (John 3:3-7). Hence this lifestyle dependent upon the earth, animal husbandry and farming, which began with Adam and Eve immediately after they were expelled from the Garden. So the slaughter of animals actually began long before the flood (see Gen. 3:20-4:7).

All of this bloodshed eventually necessitated the flood, because the world became so evil that no one was learning to be good enough to go home (same as it is now). The flood wiped out the human animals, so the souls inside of them could be sent back into bodies descended from Noah's sons, giving them hope of being rehabilitated, where there had previously been none. Later, the Israelites were taken into Egypt, where they became outright slaves as punishment for selling their own brother into slavery, so Father could bring them out of that slavery as yet another lesson and test, to see which of them would seek the spiritual food from above rather than the physical food that kept them enslaved to the earth.

Father even provided them/us with physical food from heaven, in the form of manna, to redirect our focus from continually looking down (to the things of this earth) to looking toward heaven for EVERYTHING (Deut. 8:3, Matt. 4:4). So what did we do in thanks for all of His Efforts? We complained we weren't getting any flesh/meat.

Numbers 11:4-19
11:4 And the mixed multitude that [was] among them fell a lusting: and the children of Israel also wept again, and said, Who shall give us flesh to eat?
11:5 We remember the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely; the cucumbers, and the melons, and the leeks, and the onions, and the garlick:
11:6 But now our soul [is] dried away: [there is] nothing at all, beside this manna, [before] our eyes.
11:7 And the manna [was] as coriander seed, and the colour thereof as the colour of bdellium.
11:8 [And] the people went about, and gathered [it], and ground [it] in mills, or beat [it] in a mortar, and baked [it] in pans, and made cakes of it: and the taste of it was as the taste of fresh oil.
11:9 And when the dew fell upon the camp in the night, the manna fell upon it.
11:10 Then Moses heard the people weep throughout their families, every man in the door of his tent: and the anger of the "I AM" was kindled greatly; Moses also was displeased.
11:11 And Moses said unto the "I AM", Why hast Thou afflicted Thy servant? and wherefore have I not found favour in Thy sight, that Thou layest the burden of all this people upon me?
11:12 Have I conceived all this people? have I begotten them, that Thou shouldest say unto me, Carry them in thy bosom, as a nursing father beareth the sucking child, unto the land which Thou swarest unto their fathers?
11:13 Whence should I have flesh to give unto all this people? for they weep unto me, saying, Give us flesh, that we may eat.
11:14 I am not able to bear all this people alone, because [it is] too heavy for me.
11:15 And if Thou deal thus with me, kill me, I pray Thee, out of hand, if I have found favour in Thy sight; and let me not see my wretchedness.
11:16 And the "I AM" said unto Moses, Gather unto Me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom thou knowest to be the elders of the people, and officers over them; and bring them unto the Tabernacle of the Congregation, that they may stand there with thee.
11:17 And I will come down and talk with thee there: and I will take of the spirit which [is] upon thee, and will put [it] upon them; and they shall bear the burden of the people with thee, that thou bear [it] not thyself alone.
11:18 And say thou unto the people, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow, and ye shall eat flesh: for ye have wept in the ears of the "I AM", saying, Who shall give us flesh to eat? for [it was] well with us in Egypt: therefore the "I AM" will give you flesh, and ye shall eat.
11:19 Ye shall not eat one day, nor two days, nor five days, neither ten days, nor twenty days;
11:20 [But] even a whole month, UNTIL IT COME OUT AT YOUR NOSTRILS, AND IT BE LOATHSOME UNTO YOU: because that ye have despised the "I AM" which [is] among you, and have wept before Him, saying, Why came we forth out of Egypt?

Knowing how obstinate and stiff-necked we are, Father provided all of the clean animals here on Earth, which are designed to be fit for human consumption to teach those who seek His Wisdom even further lessons.

One of those lessons is to learn to differentiate between the clean and the unclean. That which is clean does NOT cause sickness, disease and death; that which is unclean does cause sickness, disease and death.

Another extremely important lesson is to learn about SACRIFICE. Today, people go to the grocery store and pick from among a variety of meats and fishes, nicely placed for them on a piece of plastic-wrapped styrofoam. They have no concept of what was involved in raising that animal, how it was treated, or the way in which it was slaughtered. This completely separates people from the understanding that every single animal that is slaughtered is, in fact, sacrificed to save (continue the existence of) the one consuming it. The Native American Indians gave thanks to "Wakan Tanka" (the Great White Spirit) every time they took an animal, which they did only when necessary, and then made sure they did not let it go to waste, to show their appreciation.

A further lesson is how each of the clean animals can and does serve a function which makes it more valuable alive than dead. For example, while alive, cows can provide milk, sheep can provide wool and chickens can provide eggs, year after year. The quality of the milk, wool and eggs depends upon the love and care given to these animals. Once these animals are dead though, they can only provide sustenance for a short-period of time.

This recurring theme, that in each and every physical experience, there is a spiritual lesson to be learned IF one is awake and paying attention in class, is central to both the Scripture and our natural surroundings. ALL of these lessons are about LIFE, and how to have it more abundantly, free from human limitations, death and destruction. And, if properly understood, it all encourages life and good while discouraging death and evil.

Deuteronomy 30:15-20
30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the "I AM" thy God, to walk in His Ways, and to keep His Commandments and His Statutes and His Judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the "I AM" thy God shall bless thee in the land where thou goest to possess it.
30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, [and that] ye shall not prolong [your] days upon the land, where thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
30:20 That thou mayest love the "I AM" thy God, [and] that thou mayest obey His voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto Him: for He [is] thy Life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the "I AM" sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob/Israel, to give them.

It's understood this is a lengthy reply and explanation, but to be proper it needed to be thorough.

 

[polymoog]

The commandments are not about animals.

yes, but are not the commandments a moral framework for us to follow?

 

[polymoog]

It's understood this is a lengthy reply and explanation, but to be proper it needed to be thorough.

yes, it was a good read and i agree with a lot of it.

i dont think i am making myself clear. we have the ten commandments which were supposedly given to us. why isnt one of them a prohibition on eating meat (unless it is our only option)?

you are saying god put us on prison earth so that we can learn, and thats sensible. however, why do animals need to kill other animals and inflict pain upon them so they can eat? even plants sense pain when they are mutilated-- why design a world like that?

 

[phipps]

yes, but are not the commandments a moral framework for us to follow?

They are plus in the Old Testament there were rules about how to treat animals. As a Christian I know its not right to mistreat animals. They are also God's creatures and He cares for them too. However animals are less than people. Biblically only humans are created in "Gods image." Humans have choice, moral sense of right and wrong, can experience faith. Only we have the capacity to worship God etc.

The Moral law is there to point out our sin, eating clean animals is not a sin. The health laws in the Bible are to help us live healthier lives because when we are healthy its impacts on us physically and spiritually. As I pointed out the Jews didn't eat much meat in their diet anyway so its not good to eat too much of it if one chooses to continue eating meat.

Eating animals nowadays is risky as we don't rear our own animals and we know they are not being reared right. Its best not to eat meat nowadays because its really not good for our health.

As I told you many things were never in God's plan but came about because of sin. Death came into this world as a punishment for and because of sin and since then people and animals have been dying.

Did you know that God killed the first animal? The Bible tells us, "Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them" (Genesis 3:21). After sin Adam and Eve's eyes were opened and they realised they were naked. So God clothed them with animal skin to cover the shame of their nakedness. An innocent animal or animals was/were slayed to provide the skin. This act revealed the plan of salvation too. God established the sacrificial system from then on which represented Christ's death for us.

After sin, God required the sinner to bring an animal for sacrifice (Genesis 4:3-7). This would continue in the sanctuary and temples until Jesus died for our sins once and for all (Hebrews 7:27, 10:14). The sinner was to kill the animal with his own hand (Leviticus 1:4-5). It must have been brutal, a bloody affair and shocking, and it must have impressed the sinner with the solemn reality of sin’s awful consequences and the desperate need of a Saviour and Substitute.

So even before God allowed man to eat meat (clean meat) after the flood, man was already sacrificing animals as a symbol of Christ's death for us. The Bible says, “According to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission” (Hebrews 9:22). Jesus said at the Lord's supper, “This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins” (Matthew 26:28). Just like those animals that shed blood, Jesus shed His blood for us, to save us eternally. Of course His sacrifice is the only one that counts. His death took away the death sentence (eternal death) for us should we accept Him as our personal Saviour and submit to Him fully.

Even this answer won't be completely satisfactory to you because no one has all the answers except God.

 

[polymoog]

an innocent animal or animals was/were slayed to provide the skin.

well, not necessarily. if god could create men and animals, why couldnt he simply manifest a hide for adam and eve without taking a life?

They are Plus in the Old Testament there were rules about how to treat animals.

that is the start of a good answer for me. are you implying there was no need for such a commandment for man to not kill animals unless there was no other option for food, since its already within the pages of the OT?
what about the plants?

However animals are less than people.

of course. the underlying question is the needless suffering/killing/pain infliction of plants and animals and why there isnt a specific prohibition about it AND why god would create a prison planet where this must take place.... or at least why would sit back and allow this to go on, not necessarily for men, but for animals and plants which need no spiritual rehabilitation on this plane of existence (or do they? this is your department!).

 

[phipps]

@polymoog

well, not necessarily. if god could create men and animals, why couldnt he simply manifest a hide for adam and eve without taking a life?

He could have but that doesn't harmonise with biblical doctrine because from the beginning people sacrificed animals as a symbol of Jesus' death until He actually died on the cross. We know it was the reason Cain killed Abel and that was the next generation after Adam and Eve. God refused Cain's sacrifice because God specifically told them animals had to be used in sacrifice. The animal that was killed represented Jesus' death and it makes sense that God made the first sacrifice to symbolise His death on the cross for us.

that is the start of a good answer for me. are you implying there was no need for such a commandment for man to not kill animals unless there was no other option for food, since its already within the pages of the OT?
what about the plants?

Again you are asking me an impossible question. All I know is the the moral law has nothing to do with animals. God's main concern is for us humans and it is us He sent His son to die on the cross for. God had laws about how to treat animals in the Old Covenant and also we are created with consciences. We know instinctively right from wrong and it becomes more pronounced as we get older. But you are going to have to accept that God allowed man to eat meat whether you like it or not. It is not mistreating animals to kill them for food biblically. When Jesus was on earth He ate meat and He is the God who allowed us to eat meat. Sadly its one of the consequences of sin and it all started with the sacrifice of animals before man ever ate meat. That's that.

of course. the underlying question is the needless suffering/killing/pain infliction of plants and animals and why there isnt a specific prohibition about it AND why god would create a prison planet where this must take place.... or at least why would sit back and allow this to go on, not necessarily for men, but for animals and plants which need no spiritual rehabilitation on this plane of existence (or do they? this is your department!).

Plants do not suffer. I've already answered most of this question but I can't give you that specific answer you're looking for. No one can. I will post about why God allowed sin to enter this world, why He didn't kill Satan who caused all this misery. But if you are a sceptic there will never be a good answer for you. Personally I trust God fully whether I know the answer to certain difficult questions or not. I know everything He did/does came/comes from a place of love, mercy, justice etc. He is after all an all knowing God that has always existed. And when we get to heaven we will finally get the answers to those questions.

Its not my department. I'm just a Christian who is passionate about God.

 

[meximonk]

well, not necessarily. if god could create men and animals, why couldnt he simply manifest a hide for adam and eve without taking a life?


that is the start of a good answer for me. are you implying there was no need for such a commandment for man to not kill animals unless there was no other option for food, since its already within the pages of the OT?
what about the plants?


of course. the underlying question is the needless suffering/killing/pain infliction of plants and animals and why there isnt a specific prohibition about it AND why god would create a prison planet where this must take place.... or at least why would sit back and allow this to go on, not necessarily for men, but for animals and plants which need no spiritual rehabilitation on this plane of existence (or do they? this is your department!).

God didn't create the Prison Planet. Mankind's own actions to the contrary of what God recommended did. Before that it was a Paradise Planet.

 

[A Freeman]

yes, it was a good read and i agree with a lot of it.

Thank-you. Glad you enjoyed it.

i dont think i am making myself clear. we have the ten commandments which were supposedly given to us. why isnt one of them a prohibition on eating meat (unless it is our only option)?

Perhaps a better question would be "why did our omniscient Creator not make eating meat a Commandment?" The simple answer to that question would be because it shouldn't be a Commandment.

Each of us has a human "self" (ego) that has its own idea of what right and wrong should be (Deut. 12:8), and there are as many differing opinions on that as there are people here on Earth. The reality is we are ALL wrong, and the only thing that keeps us from seeing that is our "self". That's why we've been Commanded to crucify the "self" DAILY (Matt. 10:38, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:26-27, Gal. 2:20, Sura 6:162), so we're not deceived by it.

It's easy in this day and age to think that eating meat is merely a choice when going to the supermarket. That's part of the disconnect with reality that was mentioned in the previous post.

When Father designed this prison reform-school it was necessary to take into consideration how the humans would be fed for thousands of Earth years. During most of human history, this world has been an agrarian based society. It's only in the past 100 years or so that we have become industrialized, which has resulted in an exponential increase in the destruction of this world and its natural resources. All plant and animal life on this planet has suffered tremendously under this relentless assault.

The world is home to a wide variety of plant and animal life, as well as drastically different climates and terrain across the 7 continents. Some areas have fertile soil for growing crops, nuts and fruit trees, etc., while others do not. Different climates have different growing seasons, some short enough they cannot reasonably be used to support human life in those areas year 'round. Some people, like the Israelites, the Arabs and the American Indians, were nomadic, moving from one area to another each year to take advantage of the climate changes.

For thousands of years, being able to travel required livestock (for food and for transport). To be able to survive in areas with very short growing seasons likewise required livestock. And wealth was also a product of one's resources, which were measured in land and livestock rather than in paper fiat currency. So having land and livestock allowed everyone the opportunity to be able to feed their own families, as long as others didn't try to oppress and enslave them.

With livestock being a source of survival and prosperity, learning animal husbandry was essential. The better the animals were fed and taken care of, the better shape they were in. And the better shape they were in, the better they were as breeding stock. All of this helped cultivate the loving care of the animals. It should also help people understand the concept of animal sacrifice, where animal sacrifices were required to atone for one's sins.

As one's livelihood depended upon their livestock, having to give up the very best breeders to pay for one's sins provided a huge incentive NOT to sin/commit crimes. It also foreshadowed Father sacrificing "the Lamb of God" to atone for our past sins, after giving us 1500 years to come to our senses and stop being habitual criminals (law-breakers/sinners). So again, there were multiple lessons built-in to our surroundings, including the livestock and their treatment and use.

Sacrificing Jesus also brought an end to all substitute animal sacrifice, which was replaced with "self" sacrifice at the cross. From that point forward, everyone was, and still is responsible for their own actions, and should be learning to keep the human animal they live inside of and its ego under complete subjection at all times. If everyone was doing that, there would be no problems on Earth today.

It also seems noteworthy that if people today had their own land and livestock (free and outright), they would not be so easily subjected to the whims of a bunch of dictator-wannabes, with their FAKE wealth, FAKE fiat currencies, FAKE financial institutions, FAKE governments, and the rest of their corporate fictions, along with their FAKE doctors, FAKE media and FAKE promises to supposedly fix the very things they are continually screwing intentionally to get us to beg for their "solution".

That's why Father (God) made it a capital offense under His Law to be a lawyer, politician, priest, pastor, rabbi, imam, witch-doctor, or a judge administering any other rules other than His Law. Soon enough meat will be the least of everyone's concerns when the evil people we've allowed to run this world into the ground carry out their final plans for world domination. Plans which include the starving, poisoning and murder of BILLIONS. All because we haven't kept The Law, which would have protected us from all of this evil.

you are saying god put us on prison earth so that we can learn, and thats sensible. however, why do animals need to kill other animals and inflict pain upon them so they can eat? even plants sense pain when they are mutilated-- why design a world like that?

This is a physical world of the senses, where both pleasure and pain can be felt. It wouldn't be realistic if it wasn't possible to feel pain, and it would be counterproductive, since it would defeat the purpose of this place.

Spiritual-Beings do not feel pain, nor have any physical needs, and thus cannot be punished or sent to bed without supper, etc. for behaving like animals. So given the option of facing immediate execution for our treason against God, Prince Michael (Christ) and the other two-thirds of our Brethren, or agree to be rehabilitated inside one of these pain amplification devices (a human body), we chose the latter, except for Lucifer/Satan. Father allowed his arrogance to use him (Satan) to test us, to see if we genuinely want to reform or if we are merely paying Him lip service (if even that).

Each of us has been given every opportunity through many human lifetimes over the past 6000 years to learn how to treat everyone and everything with the love and respect it deserves. Yet here we are, right before Judgment Day, and most are still serving the creature/animal they live inside of rather than The Creator. And this despite seeing animals at each other's throats every day -- including human animals -- which should provide everyone with the additional incentive to learn our lessons quickly. Behaving like animals is what got us sent here in the first place. Learning from our Creator and our natural surroundings that we never want to be or act like that again, is the only way any of us will ever leave here alive.

If this training was any less intense it wouldn't be effective. There's simply no other way to ensure we can be trusted to never do this again.

 

[phipps]

Why does God appear to be so severe in the Old Testament?

Apart from the flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Amalekites and Canaanites there are many other judgements of God that come across as brutal, harsh, merciless and uncompromising. One of the stories I was taught as a child was about Daniel and the lion's den. The part of the story that bothered me was how the men who set up Daniel were punished. They and their families were all thrown in the lion's den. I thought the men deserved to be punished but not their families. I wondered as a kid why God would allow this to happen. There were also death sentences for certain sins like murder, bestiality, sodomy, witchcraft, idolatry, adultery, blaspheming God's name, sabbath breaking, cursing Mother or Father, touching Mount Sinai, carelessness in restraining one's animal etc.

I confess: I don't always understand God's actions. That doesn't necessarily bother me, because I know His actions flow out of His love, holiness, mercy, and justice—that is to say, from His unique nature. I recognize that human moral values find a point of contact in the character of God and that therefore I should be able to understand most, if not all, of the moral dimensions and implications of His actions. So I should always seek understanding.

The concern for some Christians is that in some cases our understanding of what is good or evil appears to be in tension/contradiction with what we read in Scripture. I won't deal with one specific case, but I will share some general guidelines that may be useful.

1. The God of the Old Testament is the God of the New Testament: The Bible makes it clear that the God of both Testaments is the same God. This point hardly needs elaboration. Therefore, we cannot place one against the other by suggesting that in the Old Testament God is a wrathful God, while in the New Testament He is a loving God. The God of Scripture is a God of mercy, whose love is everlasting. Wrath is not a divine attribute, but His reaction to human sin and rebellion as He seeks to save sinners (Exodus 34:6-7).

2. Study Each Case: There are a good number of cases, particularly in the Pentateuch (the five books of Moses), in which divine wrath appears to be merciless; and some punishments for the violation of certain laws seem too severe (Exodus 21:15, 17). No one explanation could clarify all of them; it's necessary to study each one by itself within its own context. In most cases we can find a proper moral rationale for the action or the legislation. Others remain somewhat obscure. Comparing the biblical legislation with ancient Near Eastern legal practices reveals that biblical law is more humane. This indicates that God was aiming to elevate the moral values of His people.

3. God's Condescension: God addressed His people within the cultural and legal contexts in which they lived in order to raise them to new moral and spiritual heights. This was a slow and at times painful process in which God came as close as possible to the human condition without sacrificing His moral integrity. He had a clear plan that He proceeded to implement.

He didn't choose one of the nations of the earth to be His people; He decided to create one for Himself. He called Abram, and out of him came 12 tribes. The law of the clans and tribes was very strict, and, in cases of violation, quickly enforced. The unification of those tribes into one nation was not an easy task, even for the Lord. Tribal law was appropriated and modified by the Lord, who also became its enforcer. In His hands the intention of the law was to protect the interests not of one clan or tribe but of the whole nation. God was responsible for preserving and restoring order within the community. Insubordination and rebellion that could threaten the very existence of the community was not tolerated within the theocracy. The severity of the punishment revealed the seriousness with which God took sin and rebellion, and served as a social deterrent.

The inscrutability of divine will and actions remain with us. There are ways of reading the text that reveal its moral and ethical significance, but I acknowledge that everything is not crystal clear. However, God's actions and laws in the Old Testament were manifestations of His character, and they found their fullest expression in the Person of His Son. The final answer provided by the Bible is the cross of Jesus and His role in the final judgment.

The cosmic judgment will make clear that God was righteous and just in how He dealt with the sin problem by answering the question: "Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Genesis 18:25). The answer then, as now, will be: Yes, He has done right!

Link.

 

[phipps]

Why is the Bible so violent?

We see that the Bible is violent just like CNN is violent. The Bible as well as CNN "reports" on the condition of our world and the people who live in it. Please note: CNN and the Bible in themselves are not violent, but the content they portray is violent.

No sugar coating
God does not hide unsightly events and interactions in the Bible. You get the real story with no sugar coating. It shows what rebellion on this planet looks like and the resulting violence and heartache that happens when we freely choose Satan’s path and his government.

Therefore, seeing the results of rebellion going on around us today, in eternity we would never want to choose Satan’s path. God doesn’t take away our free choice, He lets us touch the stove so-to-speak. God knows that when we see all the pain, violence and heartache created by Satan’s government we will choose God and His ways.

Bible, violence and propaganda
This shows the Bible is not a work of propaganda. If the Bible was propaganda, as many critics assert, it would be the worst religious propaganda paper ever written. Why you may ask? Well, the Bible describes in detail the sins of God’s chosen people. Moses was a murderer. Noah had a drinking problem. Abraham was not honest about his wife. David committed adultery. All these stories about sin shows the truth about God’s people. Each of them, like you and me, are imperfect and in need of a Saviour. "For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope" (Romans 15:4).

Conclusion
The Bible contains violent stories because these stories reveal the truth about humanity, without hiding the details. The Bible is the history of God saying here is what humans are really like. But there is hope, especially for you. As we look at our lives and the chaotic world around us, we can find comfort in God’s promises and His plan to end violence and give humanity eternal peace (Revelation 21:4).

Link.

 

[Daze]

why would god create an earth where beings must kill and destroy other beings (via consumption) in order to survive?

Its an interesting question. I've never heard of angels eating, so clearly He can make a creation that doesn't need sustenance.

I think i mentioned I'm a revert to Islam before? A few years back i done some electrical work for a born Muslim. I don't remember the exact conversation but he basically asked me why does God allow so much evil. I remember telling him, if evil didn't exist, how would you know what good even was? Perhaps this is an answer to your question? If there was no destruction / loss of life, would life itself have the same value?


Theres something in Islam called "dhikr", which is basically translated as remembrance. The Almighty wants to be remembered, which is one reason for the daily prayers in Islam. Perhaps this has something to do with your question? If mankind didn't need to eat, he would be less in need of the Almighty, yes?



Far as animals and "commandments" are concerned there is a very specific way of killing them. For starters the animal isn't even allowed to see the knife. I could go into details but you can just look up Halal. While I've never looked into it, i assume the Jewish method, Kosher, is very much the same. If we kill the animal the way God instructed us to, the animal doesn't feel any pain at all. Perhaps your question's answer has something to do with obedience? God gave us orders on how to deal with animals. Maybe its a trial to see who listens and obeys and who ignores?

"And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks and sanctify You." He (Allah) said: "I know that which you do not know."
Quran 2:30

I can only give hypothetical answers for your question from a Muslim standpoint. End of the day only the Almighty knows the purpose behind everything.

Yes, God could have created us completely free of need, but instead He made us in constant need. Food, water, shelter, family, health, job, ect, ect, ect.

Mankind thinks himself self-sufficient, but if God removed water, he wouldn't last a week.

 

[polymoog]

Its an interesting question. I've never heard of angels eating, so clearly He can make a creation that doesn't need sustenance.

THAT... is an interesting observation!

If mankind didn't need to eat, he would be less in need of the Almighty, yes?

hmm!!! i undestand the ritual killing of halal and kosher. still, god shouldve designed it somehow so that the being being killed/consumed has a painless experience.

If we kill the animal the way God instructed us to, the animal doesn't feel any pain at all. Perhaps your question's answer has something to do with obedience? God gave us orders on how to deal with animals. Maybe its a trial to see who listens and obeys and who ignores?

perhaps.... but the animal is still losing its life (and life is supposed to be happy and something to be enjoyed) for another. i cant imagine any forced death as pleasant.


well, thats probably the best response ive had to that question in many years. thank you, daze!

 

[phipps]

Why didn't God kill or destroy Satan?

The Bible tells us there was a war in heaven, "And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him" (Revelation 12:7-9). If God had killed Satan instead of casting him and his angels to this earth, we would not be in the predicament we are in now with all the suffering and death. Is it fair to blame God though?

It’s important to remember that Lucifer had challenged the fairness of God’s government. He had told lies about God. The idea of telling a lie had never entered the minds of the angels. Naturally they didn’t grasp all that lay behind Lucifer’s deceptions. If God had destroyed Satan immediately, the angels would have begun to serve Him from fear rather than from love. Instead of eliminating the rebellion and the pain it brought, destroying the rebels would eventually have spread the pain to every creature on earth and made it permanent. This would have defeated the very purpose He had in creating beings with the power of choice in the first place.

How did anyone really know God’s way was best? No one had dared to try an alternative. God gave Satan a chance to demonstrate his alternative system. That’s why he was given an opportunity to make his pitch to Adam and Eve. This planet has become a testing ground where the character of Satan and the nature of his kingdom are contrasted with the character of God and the nature of His kingdom. Who is right? Who can we ultimately trust? These are the issues which “the great controversy between Christ and Satan” must resolve.

Satan's deceptions
So deceptive was Lucifer, that before all the universe could be fully convinced, the nature of his alternative had to be fully exposed. It has taken time for everyone to really grasp how disastrous Satan’s alternative actually is. But eventually everyone will see that “the wages of sin is death” and that “the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23). Every being in the entire universe will then agree with the declaration: “Great and marvelous are your deeds, Lord God Almighty. Just and true are your ways, King of the ages. Who will not fear you, O Lord, and bring glory to your name? For you alone are holy. All nations will come and worship before you, for your righteous acts have been revealed” (Revelation 15:3-4).

Conclusion: God's perfect plan
After everyone understands the deadly nature of sin and the destructive nature of Satan’s philosophy, God can destroy Satan and sin. He will also have to destroy those who stubbornly resist His grace and cling to Satan’s alternative. God is just as anxious to resolve the problem of sin and suffering as we are to have Him do so. But He is waiting until He can do it on a permanent basis, and until He can both preserve our free will and prevent evil from ever appearing again.

Link.

 

[floss]

After having read the bible and considered god's actions, I can only conclude that he was a psychopath who set people up to fail so that he could punish them.

Why did God killed these "innocent" pre-flood people?

Short Answer: Corrupted Gene Pool

More detail in video:

 

[phipps]

Why did God killed these "innocent" pre-flood people?

Short Answer: Corrupted Gene Pool

More detail in video:

This is completely false and not biblical at all as I've posted before. Angels cannot procreate with humans because they are spirits and do not have human DNA, fallen angels are NOT the "sons of God" that is a term of endearment for God's creatures only who obey and worship Him. But lets look at it from a different angle.

When did God manage to kill off this "corrupted Gene Pool" then? We read in the Bible about God killing or commanding people and angels to kill way after the flood.

Was it Sodom and Gomorrah, the Amalekites, the Cannaanites, the 70,000 men an angel killed of a plague because of David's sin, the 185,000 Assyrians the angel killed, Achan and his entire family including women and children who were stoned and burned because of his sin of theft, etc. What about hell when Satan and all the wicked will be killed and they die eternally? will it be because of this "corrupted Gene Pool"? Is that what the Bible says?

Do you see that what you say is not biblical at all? Every time God killed or commanded it, it was because of sin. That was the reason for the flood. "Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them” (Genesis 6:5-7). Sin will be the reason for hell which will be the final time God will kill and rid this earth of sin forever.

God hates sin and sometimes people went too far and God had to kill them to protect those who would live after. If He hadn't done that this world would be in a much worse state than it is in now and you can see the state of world right now. It was never about a "corrupted gene pool" because that never existed in the first place. Humans procreate only with other humans because they have the same gene pool. The Bible has never ever implied that angels, good or bad, can procreate with themselves let alone with humans.

 

[TokiEl]

this is completely false and not biblical at all as i've posted before. Angels cannot procreate with humans because they are spirits and do not have human DNA, fallen angels are NOT the "sons of God" that is a term of endearment for God's creatures only who obey and worship Him. But lets look at it from a different angle.

You don't know what you're talking about.

All angels are of course sons of God... whose sons would they else be ?

And angels can procreate with women because the Bible says a group of them did... and so the offsprings of this unholy union were corrupt freaks of nature... the serpent seed who when they died became the demons.

 

[phipps]

Hell fire.

The Bible tells us that hell will be the final time that God will ever kill. It is the place where Satan and the wicked will be killed/destroyed with fire, and sin and death will be gone forever after that.

It has never been God's desire that any of us perish. In fact, He wants us all to come to repentance and be saved.
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance" (2 Peter 3:9).

"As I live, says the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel" (Ezekiel 33:11).

But we were all created with free will and its up to us if we let God in our lives and submit and obey Him. He can't force us to choose Him. Ultimately all those who will go to hell and lose their lives forever will have made the choice to go there.

God’s character is one of love and compassion (Jeremiah 31:3). The Bible says, He is love (1 John 4:8). He loved the world so much that He sent His son here on a mission to die to save us. God even loves His enemies. As the soldiers were nailing Him to the cross, He prayed, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do” (Luke 23:34).

But although God loves us, sin cannot exist in His presence. Plus sin and sinners cannot go on forever. God cannot allow illness, death, crime and violence to continue to cause suffering and death in this world. The Bible says, "He will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time" (Nahum 1: 9). All the effects of sin will be banished forever. There will be no sin, no sinners and no devil to tempt. This earth will be recreated again and return to its former glory before sin entered this world. John described that future home in these words, "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Revelation 21:4).