Why did God kill?
- Thread starter phipps
- Start date
The flood.
The first punishment where God kills man is the flood. He killed everybody universally except eight people and a few animals, The Bible tells us, "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5). Although the Bible doesn't really explain to us how evil people were they must have been really evil. They had crossed the line with God. They must have completely rejected God and followed their own sinful desires without hesitance and without regret. They did not listen to the Holy Spirit any more. God was sorry that He had made man, and He was grieved in His Heart (Genesis 6:6). He told Noah, "The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth" (Genesis 6:13).
However God didn't just send a flood without warning to the antediluvians. God gave them a probationary period of 120 years to change. God said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3). God told Noah to build the ark and to preach to the people a warning message about the coming flood, which he did for 120 years. In those days people lived long lives and so they all had more than enough time to repent and turn back to God and be saved. God waited patiently for them to change (1 Peter 3:20) but all of them rejected Him except eight people.
Even when the ark was finished (it had a lot of room for a lot people) and they saw the animals enter the ark calmly (that must have been a miraculous sight to behold), they were still deaf to God's pleadings through Noah.
It wasn't until it started raining (they'd never seen rain before) that they realised they were wrong and they wanted to be on the boat, but at that point, it was too late. Probation had ended and the ark was shut closed by God.
What does this teach us?
1) God does not want any of us to perish. In Ezekiel, God says “For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!” (Ezekiel 18:32).
Ezekiel 33:11, "Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’
God wants us to choose Him, to submit our lives to Him so He could transform us into the people we are supposed to be when He created us from the inside out. We all have probationary periods all our lives to repent and turn from and let God cleanse us from sin and sanctify us. Our probation lasts until we die or until Christ returns the second time.
2) There is a limit to how much we can sin with God. The Lord is long-suffering and patient but sometimes people cross the line too far that God has no choice but to destroy them.
3) God's mercy does not and will not last forever.
4) God's Word is final. He has always made it clear He will destroy the wicked but there is always mercy in God's judgements. When He says the wicked are going to by judged and punished that will happen.
The first punishment where God kills man is the flood. He killed everybody universally except eight people and a few animals, The Bible tells us, "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5). Although the Bible doesn't really explain to us how evil people were they must have been really evil. They had crossed the line with God. They must have completely rejected God and followed their own sinful desires without hesitance and without regret. They did not listen to the Holy Spirit any more. God was sorry that He had made man, and He was grieved in His Heart (Genesis 6:6). He told Noah, "The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth" (Genesis 6:13).
However God didn't just send a flood without warning to the antediluvians. God gave them a probationary period of 120 years to change. God said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years” (Genesis 6:3). God told Noah to build the ark and to preach to the people a warning message about the coming flood, which he did for 120 years. In those days people lived long lives and so they all had more than enough time to repent and turn back to God and be saved. God waited patiently for them to change (1 Peter 3:20) but all of them rejected Him except eight people.
Even when the ark was finished (it had a lot of room for a lot people) and they saw the animals enter the ark calmly (that must have been a miraculous sight to behold), they were still deaf to God's pleadings through Noah.
It wasn't until it started raining (they'd never seen rain before) that they realised they were wrong and they wanted to be on the boat, but at that point, it was too late. Probation had ended and the ark was shut closed by God.
What does this teach us?
1) God does not want any of us to perish. In Ezekiel, God says “For I have no pleasure in the death of one who dies,” says the Lord God. “Therefore turn and live!” (Ezekiel 18:32).
Ezekiel 33:11, "Say to them: ‘As I live,’ says the Lord God, ‘I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?’
God wants us to choose Him, to submit our lives to Him so He could transform us into the people we are supposed to be when He created us from the inside out. We all have probationary periods all our lives to repent and turn from and let God cleanse us from sin and sanctify us. Our probation lasts until we die or until Christ returns the second time.
2) There is a limit to how much we can sin with God. The Lord is long-suffering and patient but sometimes people cross the line too far that God has no choice but to destroy them.
3) God's mercy does not and will not last forever.
4) God's Word is final. He has always made it clear He will destroy the wicked but there is always mercy in God's judgements. When He says the wicked are going to by judged and punished that will happen.
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Did God break His own sixth commandment which says, "thou shalt not kill"?
The commandment is really "thou shalt not murder." Jesus quoted it correctly in Matthew 19:18, “You shall not murder.” To murder is to kill unlawfully with ill intent. Its to take a person's life without cause. God never murders.
There are many instances in the Bible where it was necessary for God to justly end a life. Sometimes He also condoned His people killing other people, especially to defend themselves from enemies that were bent on destroying them. That is not murder. God has carried out righteous judgment and has executed those who were no longer fit to live. God has performed it, God has ordained it, God has commissioned it, because it is He who destroys the wicked. God is merciful, He is just, He is love so we can trust Him to deal rightly with every person whether we understand the reasons or not. God's judgements are always right.
God is never cruel, never vindictive, never causes unnecessary pain. Sometimes His actions may seem harsh or vindictive to us, because we do not understand all the circumstances and reasons for them. Let us bow in humility and accept what the Scripture says! Who are we to judge the words of God? When God told Abraham to cast out Hagar and Ishmael, was this an act of cruelty? On the surface it seems so. Hagar and Ishmael suffered a great deal as a result of what seemed like a harsh command. This does not seem like the work of a God of love, so what shall we do? Shall we conclude that Satan gave this command to Abraham? The Bible tells us God did give this command. We should pray and search by studying God's Word to to understand why He made such decisions. Let us see if we can discover what terrible factors were at work in this situation which forced a God of love and mercy to make such a seemingly harsh command. With this attitude we may possibly learn God's lessons, but not if we decide that the Bible must be wrong!
The commandment is really "thou shalt not murder." Jesus quoted it correctly in Matthew 19:18, “You shall not murder.” To murder is to kill unlawfully with ill intent. Its to take a person's life without cause. God never murders.
There are many instances in the Bible where it was necessary for God to justly end a life. Sometimes He also condoned His people killing other people, especially to defend themselves from enemies that were bent on destroying them. That is not murder. God has carried out righteous judgment and has executed those who were no longer fit to live. God has performed it, God has ordained it, God has commissioned it, because it is He who destroys the wicked. God is merciful, He is just, He is love so we can trust Him to deal rightly with every person whether we understand the reasons or not. God's judgements are always right.
God is never cruel, never vindictive, never causes unnecessary pain. Sometimes His actions may seem harsh or vindictive to us, because we do not understand all the circumstances and reasons for them. Let us bow in humility and accept what the Scripture says! Who are we to judge the words of God? When God told Abraham to cast out Hagar and Ishmael, was this an act of cruelty? On the surface it seems so. Hagar and Ishmael suffered a great deal as a result of what seemed like a harsh command. This does not seem like the work of a God of love, so what shall we do? Shall we conclude that Satan gave this command to Abraham? The Bible tells us God did give this command. We should pray and search by studying God's Word to to understand why He made such decisions. Let us see if we can discover what terrible factors were at work in this situation which forced a God of love and mercy to make such a seemingly harsh command. With this attitude we may possibly learn God's lessons, but not if we decide that the Bible must be wrong!
After the flood there are more stories of God's judgements of both the Israelites/Jews and Gentiles that involved the killing of innocent people and children. In fact the Old Testament is full of such stories. Many Christians and non Christians a like wonder why?
There are Christians who've become atheists because of such stories. They've rejected God because they feel they can't understand this side of Him. They think He was brutal, harsh, merciless etc.
There are reasons we can understand for why God carried out those judgements. When God killed a people group/nations or individuals in the Old Testament he killed them all because:
1. They sinned and broke the law, were all wicked and/or heathens. The Bible tells us, "For the wages of sin is death..."(Romans 6:23). Sin always brings death, its just in the Old Testament it brought it immediately but at the end of time God will kill all the wicked in hell and this time it will be final. Sin will never exist ever again in this World.
2. If God killed only the men, how would the women and children survive?
3. When God commanded entire nations to be destroyed, so that anything breathing was killed, God had to because of the influence of these nations on His people. If left to their own devices, it would lead to the death of many more innocent people. Nations like the Canaanites engaged in human sacrifice, even offering their children to devil gods contrary to God's Word (Deuteronomy 12:31.) Also God did not only use Israel to punish evil nations like the Amalekites and Canaanites, He used the Babylonian, Assyrian, and Egyptian kings to punish Israel (His chosen people) when they disobeyed and rejected Him. God often used human forces to mete out His discipline.
It’s not a perfect illustration, but often infected cattle or poultry are destroyed for the purpose of stopping an epidemic and saving more livestock. Likewise, if left unchecked, these nations would have plagued the world with such depravity that they simply were not redeemable. So as much as it broke the heart of God, the order was given to eliminate these infected nations.
4. While God is long-suffering, patient, merciful, loving, He also hates sin. He cannot tolerate it. He also won't ignore it. God has to deal with sin. Sometimes people cross the line with God and go so far that He has no choice but to destroy them. In our human understanding we only want God as a loving God which He is, but He is also a God of justice which means judgement and the death penalty for sin. Jesus (God) took on the death penalty for all of us if we choose Him. That means we don't have to die eternally if we follow Christ. This is how much God loves us. He sent His Son to die in our stead so we can be saved (John 3:16). God's love overrides His wrath through His precious Son Jesus Christ. In the Old Testament people suffered physical death for their rebellion against God, but now we have a Saviour. However the Bible warns that rebellion and rejection of Christ's salvation will result in eternal death (John 3:36). So God's wrath has not gone away. It's still there for those who reject His precious son, the only name under heaven by which men can be saved (Acts 4:12).
This is a very difficult subject though. As fallen humans we don't understand God fully. These actions seem to contradict God's Word and character. He commands us to love and forgive one another, even our enemies yet His judgements seem to do the opposite. Christians who have a relationship with God know and trust that He is merciful, just and loving. They Know God is omnipotent and omniscient and knows better than we do. His ways and thoughts are much higher than ours. We are not to judge God. We have to continue trusting God and having faith in Him even when we do not understand. He has proved in our lives that He loves us and has our best interests at heart. No one loves us more than Him.
There are Christians who've become atheists because of such stories. They've rejected God because they feel they can't understand this side of Him. They think He was brutal, harsh, merciless etc.
There are reasons we can understand for why God carried out those judgements. When God killed a people group/nations or individuals in the Old Testament he killed them all because:
1. They sinned and broke the law, were all wicked and/or heathens. The Bible tells us, "For the wages of sin is death..."(Romans 6:23). Sin always brings death, its just in the Old Testament it brought it immediately but at the end of time God will kill all the wicked in hell and this time it will be final. Sin will never exist ever again in this World.
2. If God killed only the men, how would the women and children survive?
3. When God commanded entire nations to be destroyed, so that anything breathing was killed, God had to because of the influence of these nations on His people. If left to their own devices, it would lead to the death of many more innocent people. Nations like the Canaanites engaged in human sacrifice, even offering their children to devil gods contrary to God's Word (Deuteronomy 12:31.) Also God did not only use Israel to punish evil nations like the Amalekites and Canaanites, He used the Babylonian, Assyrian, and Egyptian kings to punish Israel (His chosen people) when they disobeyed and rejected Him. God often used human forces to mete out His discipline.
It’s not a perfect illustration, but often infected cattle or poultry are destroyed for the purpose of stopping an epidemic and saving more livestock. Likewise, if left unchecked, these nations would have plagued the world with such depravity that they simply were not redeemable. So as much as it broke the heart of God, the order was given to eliminate these infected nations.
4. While God is long-suffering, patient, merciful, loving, He also hates sin. He cannot tolerate it. He also won't ignore it. God has to deal with sin. Sometimes people cross the line with God and go so far that He has no choice but to destroy them. In our human understanding we only want God as a loving God which He is, but He is also a God of justice which means judgement and the death penalty for sin. Jesus (God) took on the death penalty for all of us if we choose Him. That means we don't have to die eternally if we follow Christ. This is how much God loves us. He sent His Son to die in our stead so we can be saved (John 3:16). God's love overrides His wrath through His precious Son Jesus Christ. In the Old Testament people suffered physical death for their rebellion against God, but now we have a Saviour. However the Bible warns that rebellion and rejection of Christ's salvation will result in eternal death (John 3:36). So God's wrath has not gone away. It's still there for those who reject His precious son, the only name under heaven by which men can be saved (Acts 4:12).
This is a very difficult subject though. As fallen humans we don't understand God fully. These actions seem to contradict God's Word and character. He commands us to love and forgive one another, even our enemies yet His judgements seem to do the opposite. Christians who have a relationship with God know and trust that He is merciful, just and loving. They Know God is omnipotent and omniscient and knows better than we do. His ways and thoughts are much higher than ours. We are not to judge God. We have to continue trusting God and having faith in Him even when we do not understand. He has proved in our lives that He loves us and has our best interests at heart. No one loves us more than Him.
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I grew up in church and the age old question of "why did God kill" (old testament) was always a theological quagmire.....until I did my research on the nephilim.
It explains so much and completely answers the question of why Israel had to physically destroy the seed of the serpent that was trying to prevent the Seed of woman to be born (the bloodline of Jesus).
It explains so much and completely answers the question of why Israel had to physically destroy the seed of the serpent that was trying to prevent the Seed of woman to be born (the bloodline of Jesus).
John K
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Why you talk like God were a person and male?
the bible is full of contradictions. The moon controls the tides, I think the flood on earth it's because there was a gravitational change between the moon and the earth. I think that the flood was not inmediatly, It was a long process, and there must have been dozens of signs, like the birds flying to other lands because somes lands were flooded. Perhaps it was not God who told Noah to build the ark. Rather, Noah interpreted the natural signs (birds, increase of the tide , etc) and he get to the conclusion that a flood was coming.
The flood could be a natural event.. because of the gravitational distance between the moon and the earth.
Or maybe the moon is a base where the watchers control humans, and wanted to destroy humans with the great flood.
,
Honestly, I don' t think that god wanted to murder almost all humans in the earth because they were 'bad' .
Biblically the nephilim or giants were completely human. Angels, fallen and unfallen are not human and do not have human DNA. The Bible tells us angels are spirits so therefore they cannot procreate with human beings. God destroyed people because of sin.
"Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them” (Genesis 6:5-7).
Sodom and Gomorrah, Amalekites, Canaanites etc did not have the seed of the serpent, they were wicked and ungodly people and God destroyed them all. At the end of time God is going to destroy all the wicked and ungodly because they rebelled and rejected Him. The issue is sin and God detests sin. He has made it clear He will destroy the wicked, and He holds “to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment", (2 Peter 2:9). But He has also promised that “the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 6:23).
Why you talk like God were a person and male?
the bible is full of contradictions. The moon controls the tides, I think the flood on earth it's because there was a gravitational change between the moon and the earth. I think that the flood was not inmediatly, It was a long process, and there must have been dozens of signs, like the birds flying to other lands because somes lands were flooded. Perhaps it was not God who told Noah to build the ark. Rather, Noah interpreted the natural signs (birds, increase of the tide , etc) and he get to the conclusion that a flood was coming.
The flood could be a natural event.. because of the gravitational distance between the moon and the earth.
Or maybe the moon is a base where the watchers control humans, and wanted to destroy humans with the great flood.
,
Honestly, I don' t think that god wanted to murder almost all humans in the earth because they were 'bad' .
The Bible refers to God as a male person. The Bible also does tell us in Genesis that God created us in His image, both male and female. However when Jesus came to this world, He came as a male. Is He? We don't know, that is something we'll find out after we meet Jesus again when He returns.
The Bible does not contradict itself unless one does not understand it.
The Bible is the inspired Word of God. “All Scripture is given by inspiration of God” (2 Timothy 3:16). The Bible is God, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:1-3,14). When Jesus was on earth, He quoted Scripture as the authority for everything He taught. He said, "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth" (John 17:17). Everything in the Bible is the truth and there is only one truth in it. We do not get to interpret it any which way we feel like. So God told Noah to build the ark and He said He would destroy the earth with a flood which He did. This is the truth and I believe the Bible over what you think.
This isn't biblical is it? This is what you think.
God does not murder. If He did He would be breaking His own commandment moreover the Bible tells us that murderers will end up in hell. God is not going to hell because He does not sin nor is sin found in His heart.
God kills. Before sin entered this world, there was no death. After sin, God has had to make difficult decisions to kill His own people because sometimes their sins went too far and would have terrible consequences for the whole earth if He didn't nip them and their sins in the bud then. This whole earth is already in a terrible state as it is but things would have been much worse (I can't imagine things being much worse) had there not been a universal flood, had Sodom and Gomorrah, the Amalekites, Canaanites etc not been destroyed. God's judgments are always fair and right even though we don't always understand them.
There has never been a hybrid human on this earth according to the Bible. Nor is it is even implied in the Bible. This false doctrine is not from the Bible but from the book of Enoch which is not the inspired Word of God and contradicts the Bible. I have had Christians quote to me what it says about the nephilim because they can't quote the Bible.
God did kill humans, the Bible is clear on that. Apart from the flood, here is more scripture to prove that.
Genesis 19 - Sodom and Gomorrah are destroyed. Everything that breathed was destroyed.
Joshua 10:28-42 - The genocidal invasion of Canaan. Everything that breathed was slaughtered, Men, women, children and animals. God commanded it.
1 Samuel 15:2-3 - God commanded Saul through the prophet Samuel to completely destroy the Amalekites. He was to completely kill men, women, children and animals. Everything that breathed was supposed to be killed.
2 Samuel 24 and 1 Chronicles 21 - 70,000 men die of a plague because of David's sin of numbering Israel.
2 Kings 19:35, "And it came to pass on a certain night that the angel of the Lord went out, and killed in the camp of the Assyrians one hundred and eighty-five thousand; and when people arose early in the morning, there were the corpses—all dead."
There is plenty more scripture to prove that God either directly killed people or ordered angels and people to do it.
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Truthtellwe
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Gen 6:4
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
Nephilim + women = hybrid offspring, no?
Does God Get Angry?
How does this relate to God's character?
By the time of Christ some philosophers had come to the conclusion that God, in His absolute perfection, is not subject to human passions and emotions. He knows no distress, excitement, love, or anger. Philo, a Hellenistic Jew who lived at the same time as Christ, wrote: "Some . . . assume that the Existent feels wrath and anger, whereas He is not susceptible to any emotion at all. For anxiety is peculiar to human weakness."[1]
We know better, for we know that Jesus experienced very human emotions. And He said, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father" (John 14:9). Scripture teaches that God suffers with His children: "In all their distress he too was distressed" (Isaiah 63:9). God's tender love exceeds that of the most devoted mother: "'Is not Ephraim-my dear son, the child in whom I delight? Though I often speak against him, I still remember him. Therefore my heart yearns for him; I have great compassion for him,' declares the Lord" (Jeremiah 31:20).
However, a strangely seductive variation of the idea that God has no emotion is gaining ground today and is widely accepted among Christians. It is the belief that God does not get angry.
Modern theology tends to emphasize God's love at the expense of His holiness. It over emphasizes the fact that His love is unconditional (ignoring passages such as John 15:10-14: "If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love. . . . You are my friends if you do what I command") and tends to depersonalize the concept of retribution. The universe, it is said, is like a live wire that automatically burns those who get into the wrong relationship to it. But, as C. S. Lewis pointed out, those who substitute the picture of a live wire for that of an offended Deity do not realize that they have deprived us of all hope, for an offended Deity can forgive, but a live wire cannot.
There is, in fact, a great deal of truth in the "live wire" idea. Scripture teaches that evil brings its own reward (Hosea 13:9; Jeremiah 6:19; Proverbs 26:27; 28:6, 10; Psalms 34:21; 37:14-15). God's punishment of the wicked often consists in abandoning them to their wickedness (Romans 1:24-28; Psalm 81:12; Acts 7:42) to reap its terrible results. Even when the Bible speaks of God destroying, the destruction often is actually the work of alien armies or evil men (Jeremiah 33:4-5). In 1 Chronicles 10:14 we are told that because of Saul's transgression, the Lord "slew him" (RSV), yet verse 4 says that Saul "took his own sword, and fell upon it" (RSV). The idea of retribution as a natural process might be further supported from those texts that speak of sowing and reaping (Proverbs 22:8; Hosea 10:13; Galatians 6:7-9; Job 4:8). But these texts hardly imply that damnation is a natural result of our evil deeds any more than they imply that salvation is a natural result of our good works.
Although God's retribution is often indirect, there is also overwhelming scriptural testimony to God's active, direct vengeance. Those fundamental Old Testament passages that define God's character affirm that He is both extremely kind, loving, and forgiving, and extremely zealous in punishing and avenging (Exodus 20:5; 34:6-7; Deuteronomy 7:9-10). The authors of Scripture see no difficulty in this at all, nor do they shrink from presenting God's vengeance as a salient aspect of His character (Deuteronomy 32: 41-43; Psalm 94:1; Isaiah 1:24; Ezekiel 7:8-9; Micah 5:15; Nahum 1:2ff.)
Ah, but this is the Old Testament! Don't we find a different picture in the New?
No. The same dual emphasis is repeated in the New Testament: God saves and destroys (James 4:12). We are told to consider both "the kindness and the severity of God" (Romans 11:22). One of the most intense pictures of God's vengeance is found in Revelation 19:11-21-and this is a portrayal of the Son! The same Testament that says "God is love" also says "God is a consuming fire." He is the avenger (Romans 12:19; Hebrews 10:30). Even Jesus got angry (Mark 3:5; compare Revelation 6:16). He destroyed the fig tree and threw the robbers out of the Temple (Mark 11:12-17). Jesus also spoke of the wrath of God (John 3:36); and portrayed God as a king who relentlessly punished and destroyed the impenitent (Matthew 18:34, 35; 22:7; Luke 12:46; 19:27). Thus the divine wrath is as clearly taught in the New Testament as in the Old.
How does this relate to God's character?
By the time of Christ some philosophers had come to the conclusion that God, in His absolute perfection, is not subject to human passions and emotions. He knows no distress, excitement, love, or anger. Philo, a Hellenistic Jew who lived at the same time as Christ, wrote: "Some . . . assume that the Existent feels wrath and anger, whereas He is not susceptible to any emotion at all. For anxiety is peculiar to human weakness."[1]
We know better, for we know that Jesus experienced very human emotions. And He said, "Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father" (John 14:9). Scripture teaches that God suffers with His children: "In all their distress he too was distressed" (Isaiah 63:9). God's tender love exceeds that of the most devoted mother: "'Is not Ephraim-my dear son, the child in whom I delight? Though I often speak against him, I still remember him. Therefore my heart yearns for him; I have great compassion for him,' declares the Lord" (Jeremiah 31:20).
However, a strangely seductive variation of the idea that God has no emotion is gaining ground today and is widely accepted among Christians. It is the belief that God does not get angry.
Modern theology tends to emphasize God's love at the expense of His holiness. It over emphasizes the fact that His love is unconditional (ignoring passages such as John 15:10-14: "If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love. . . . You are my friends if you do what I command") and tends to depersonalize the concept of retribution. The universe, it is said, is like a live wire that automatically burns those who get into the wrong relationship to it. But, as C. S. Lewis pointed out, those who substitute the picture of a live wire for that of an offended Deity do not realize that they have deprived us of all hope, for an offended Deity can forgive, but a live wire cannot.
There is, in fact, a great deal of truth in the "live wire" idea. Scripture teaches that evil brings its own reward (Hosea 13:9; Jeremiah 6:19; Proverbs 26:27; 28:6, 10; Psalms 34:21; 37:14-15). God's punishment of the wicked often consists in abandoning them to their wickedness (Romans 1:24-28; Psalm 81:12; Acts 7:42) to reap its terrible results. Even when the Bible speaks of God destroying, the destruction often is actually the work of alien armies or evil men (Jeremiah 33:4-5). In 1 Chronicles 10:14 we are told that because of Saul's transgression, the Lord "slew him" (RSV), yet verse 4 says that Saul "took his own sword, and fell upon it" (RSV). The idea of retribution as a natural process might be further supported from those texts that speak of sowing and reaping (Proverbs 22:8; Hosea 10:13; Galatians 6:7-9; Job 4:8). But these texts hardly imply that damnation is a natural result of our evil deeds any more than they imply that salvation is a natural result of our good works.
Although God's retribution is often indirect, there is also overwhelming scriptural testimony to God's active, direct vengeance. Those fundamental Old Testament passages that define God's character affirm that He is both extremely kind, loving, and forgiving, and extremely zealous in punishing and avenging (Exodus 20:5; 34:6-7; Deuteronomy 7:9-10). The authors of Scripture see no difficulty in this at all, nor do they shrink from presenting God's vengeance as a salient aspect of His character (Deuteronomy 32: 41-43; Psalm 94:1; Isaiah 1:24; Ezekiel 7:8-9; Micah 5:15; Nahum 1:2ff.)
Ah, but this is the Old Testament! Don't we find a different picture in the New?
No. The same dual emphasis is repeated in the New Testament: God saves and destroys (James 4:12). We are told to consider both "the kindness and the severity of God" (Romans 11:22). One of the most intense pictures of God's vengeance is found in Revelation 19:11-21-and this is a portrayal of the Son! The same Testament that says "God is love" also says "God is a consuming fire." He is the avenger (Romans 12:19; Hebrews 10:30). Even Jesus got angry (Mark 3:5; compare Revelation 6:16). He destroyed the fig tree and threw the robbers out of the Temple (Mark 11:12-17). Jesus also spoke of the wrath of God (John 3:36); and portrayed God as a king who relentlessly punished and destroyed the impenitent (Matthew 18:34, 35; 22:7; Luke 12:46; 19:27). Thus the divine wrath is as clearly taught in the New Testament as in the Old.
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Righteous Indignation
Of course, human anger is all too often fueled by wounded pride; we become petulant and vindictive; we lose control. God's anger is not like this. But there is a righteous indignation that is not only legitimate but essential. Imagine two individuals who observe a group of thugs tormenting a helpless victim. One of the observers shrugs his shoulders and walks away, while the other becomes angry and forcefully intervenes. Which of them is righteous: the calm one or the angry one?
Wrath is the emotion a just man feels when confronted with injustice (see Judges 9:30; 2 Samuel 12:5; Nehemiah 5:6; Exodus 32:19; Acts 17:16). To love the good is to hate the evil that is antagonistic to it (Hebrews 1:9); therefore anger and love are two different sides of the same coin. Perhaps this is why it is John, the apostle of love, who wrote the most graphic portrayal of God's wrath in the New Testament-the book of Revelation.
The antithesis of love is not wrath but apathy. And God is anything but apathetic. The second commandment says that God is a "jealous" God. "Jealous" might also be translated "zealous," or even "impassioned." In other words, God cares-fiercely. Like any good parent, He gets upset when His children go astray. God is not love-dovey, namby-pamby, laid back, harmless, and jovial. If His children are naughty, He disciplines them (Hebrews 12:4-11), because He wants only the best for them.
God's hatred of evil is just as strong as His love of good. His holiness is benign toward right and malevolent toward sin, just as a fire may comfort or destroy. His glory is toxic to evil, just as oxygen, which is life-giving to humans, is toxic to certain types of bacteria. God is matter, and sin is anti-matter, and whenever matter encounters anti-matter there is a holocaust.
In Scripture, the problem that perplexes the righteous is not "How can a merciful God destroy?" but just the opposite: "How can a just God allow evil to go unchecked?" (Psalm 73; 79:10; 94:1-7; Habakkuk 1, 2; Revelation 6:10). Again, the scriptural testimony is not that God does not get angry, but that He is slow to anger, and does not stay angry (Psalm 30:5; Isaiah 54:7, 8; Psalm 78:38 Isaiah 12:1; Hosea 11:9; 14:1; Micah 7:18). The modern embarrassment with God's wrath is unknown to Scripture.
Of course, human anger is all too often fueled by wounded pride; we become petulant and vindictive; we lose control. God's anger is not like this. But there is a righteous indignation that is not only legitimate but essential. Imagine two individuals who observe a group of thugs tormenting a helpless victim. One of the observers shrugs his shoulders and walks away, while the other becomes angry and forcefully intervenes. Which of them is righteous: the calm one or the angry one?
Wrath is the emotion a just man feels when confronted with injustice (see Judges 9:30; 2 Samuel 12:5; Nehemiah 5:6; Exodus 32:19; Acts 17:16). To love the good is to hate the evil that is antagonistic to it (Hebrews 1:9); therefore anger and love are two different sides of the same coin. Perhaps this is why it is John, the apostle of love, who wrote the most graphic portrayal of God's wrath in the New Testament-the book of Revelation.
The antithesis of love is not wrath but apathy. And God is anything but apathetic. The second commandment says that God is a "jealous" God. "Jealous" might also be translated "zealous," or even "impassioned." In other words, God cares-fiercely. Like any good parent, He gets upset when His children go astray. God is not love-dovey, namby-pamby, laid back, harmless, and jovial. If His children are naughty, He disciplines them (Hebrews 12:4-11), because He wants only the best for them.
God's hatred of evil is just as strong as His love of good. His holiness is benign toward right and malevolent toward sin, just as a fire may comfort or destroy. His glory is toxic to evil, just as oxygen, which is life-giving to humans, is toxic to certain types of bacteria. God is matter, and sin is anti-matter, and whenever matter encounters anti-matter there is a holocaust.
In Scripture, the problem that perplexes the righteous is not "How can a merciful God destroy?" but just the opposite: "How can a just God allow evil to go unchecked?" (Psalm 73; 79:10; 94:1-7; Habakkuk 1, 2; Revelation 6:10). Again, the scriptural testimony is not that God does not get angry, but that He is slow to anger, and does not stay angry (Psalm 30:5; Isaiah 54:7, 8; Psalm 78:38 Isaiah 12:1; Hosea 11:9; 14:1; Micah 7:18). The modern embarrassment with God's wrath is unknown to Scripture.
shankara
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Anthropomorphizing much?
I am not. God's feelings cannot be equated to ours plus He is always in control.
shankara
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Well, as a Tibetan Buddhist, we speak of Peaceful and Wrathful Deities. These, to be clear, represent different facets of an enlightened psychology, not external "gods". Anyway, the former represent "nice" kind of love, the latter represent "forceful" kind of love. I would venture the idea that when the Bible refers to "wrath", it's referring to something like this, not an actual feeling of hate and desire to see people suffer.
Oh, and the solution to the whole thing about God purportedly killing people seems very simple to me. It didn't happen, the wars and deaths mean victories over ourselves and slaying our negative and animalistic tendencies.
Tibetans view things differently to Christians. I am going to post something that makes it clear about anthropomorphism from a Christian point of view of course. This helped me understand God better.
Anthropomorphism?
Some have suggested that statements about God's wrath are just an anthropomorphism, a concession to the times. But there is no reason to assume this, for it is impossible to find even a single text that says that God never kills or gets angry. If allusions to God's wrath are just culture-conditioned figures of speech, then perhaps assertions of His love are equally unreliable.
Some writers would go so far as to maintain that God does not kill; He merely allows Satan to take life whenever it suits His purposes. Nor only is this viewpoint scripturally invalid; it is based on the illogical assumption that Satan is always willing to cooperate with God by destroying his own agents who are hindering God's will! And even if it were true, it would not protect God from responsibility for people's death. Although David did not personally take the life of Uriah, he is still accused of having "struck down Uriah the Hittitie with the sword" (2 Samuel 12:9). Therefore, it does not help matters to say that God merely "allows" Satan to take life. If God wills for demons rather than angels to destroy, how does that make Him less responsible?
Another argument that those who deny that God kills raise is that what is wrong for us must be wrong for God, too. At first glance this seems reasonable. Surely God practices what He preaches, doesn't He? If the law is a transcript of His character, does He not keep it?
The analogy of the child-parent relationship is helpful here. Many things that children are forbidden to do ("Don't torment the cat") are just as wrong for the parents. But some things ("Don't touch the car keys"; "Don't stay up past 9:00") are not wrong in themselves; they are forbidden only because the child is incapable of exercising adult responsibility.
The same is true of God and us. God forbids us to do certain things that are perfectly legitimate for Him to do. For example, God demands praise (Jeremiah 31:7) and accepts worship, but it is wrong for a creature to do these things (Revelation 19:10). God asks us to rest on the Sabbath, but He continues to work on this day (John 5:17) as do His human agents (Matthew 12:5). God forbids us to take vengeance, but He does so (Romans 12:19) as do His human agents, the civil authorities (Romans 13:1-5). Vengeance in itself is not wrong, but God knows that we cannot be trusted to carry it out fairly in our own case.
But what about the sixth commandment? Set aside for the moment the generally accepted scholarly position that this commandment should be translated "Thou shalt not murder" and does not forbid capital punishment or killing in war. Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that it forbids all killing. Even if this were true, would it mean that God Himself has no right to take life? No, because life belongs to Him. I have no right to burn down another man's barn (eighth commandment), but the owner has that right because it belongs to him. Likewise, God may take away the possessions of any of His children for His own reasons-something that would be called stealing if we did it-because all things belong to Him. A parent may teach his child not to steal from others and yet, without being inconsistent, take away from the child a toy that the child is misusing.
God did kill according to His Word (He has the right and is fully justified and right). He did it Himself and ordered it too as I prove from scripture above. He is going to kill again too in hell when He will destroy all the wicked and sin for the last time. The wicked and sin will never to exist ever again. God doesn't want to kill but sin caused all this and it has to come to an end.
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polymoog
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since i have not yet received a proper answer, i would also like to add another related question:
why would god create an earth where beings must kill and destroy other beings (via consumption) in order to survive?
im not here to debate it, but i would like an explanation.