mecca
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That's not true... there is a whole war against Islam going on right now even.
What is your personal belief system?
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SkepticCat
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If you are talking about the anti-Muslim sentiments sweeping the world I do not think this counts. It's simply another part of their divide-and-conquer schemes: Blacks vs whites, red vs blue, left vs right, republican vs democrat. I think the nationalistic sentiments shaming Muslims is simply about fomenting civil unrest and division (it's sadly working). Frankly, I also don't think Muslims have helped their own case at all... During the 2005 'Muhammed Crisis' spawned by a Danish newspaper, the reaction in some Muslim countries was to go out and burn the Danish flag, thus responding to vandalism with... vandalism. That didn't impress me. Also, can you show me just one example of Islamic symbols being vandalized the way Christian symbols are in all these 'Illuminati' videos? Like said, I've seen only Christianity be attacked in this way so far. If you know of anti-Islamic Illuminati material, please share.
Thunderian
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Amen. If I could like that comment twice, I would.I am a born again Christian, and the deeper I dig into all aspects of my faith the more grounded I become in it.
Sunny
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Speaking about languages
A very interesting explanation http://www.ntgreek.org/answers/nt_written_in_greek.htm#Language_of_NT
About "pure speech/ language" in
At that time I will change the speech of the peoples to a pure speech, that all of them may call on the name of the Lord and serve him with one accord
I've found out this:
The pure language, ברורה שפה saphah berurah, may here mean the form of religious worship. They had been before idolaters: now God promises to restore his pure worship among them. The word has certainly this meaning in Psalm 81:6; where, as God is the speaker, the words should not be rendered, "I heard a language which I understood not," but, "I heard a religious confession, which I approved not." See Isaiah 19:18; Hosea 14:3; and see Joel 2:28, where a similar promise is found.
In my mother language its meaning is more about " the form of religious worship" too:
Rus: Тогда опять Я дам народам уста чистые, чтобы все призывали имя Господа и служили Ему единодушно.
Church Slavonic: Я́ко тогдá обращý къ лю́демъ язы́къ въ рóдъ егó, éже призывáти: всѣ́мъ и́мя Госпóдне, рабóтати емý подъ и́гомъ еди́нѣмъ.
Explanation (in Russian by A.Lopukhin https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/Lopuhin/tolkovaja_biblija_43/3):
...пророк, говоря о даровании народам Богом чистых уст ..., мысли – это дело Божие по аналогии с тем очистительным актом, который, по Ис 6.5-7, совершен был, по повелению Божию, одним из Серафимов над устами пророка Исаии, вследствие сетования его на нечистоту уст его и уст народа его: Серафим взял клещами горящий уголь с алтаря и, коснувшись им уст пророка, сказал: «беззаконие твое удалено от тебя, и грех твой очищен». Чистота уст здесь предполагает чистоту мыслей, чувств – всего духовного содержания человека. По аналогии с этим нужно понимать и то коллективное очищение уст, которое возвещает народам от лица Божия пророк Софония: он имеет в виду благодарованую чистоту религиозной веры. Уста язычников были осквернены и были нечисты призыванием ложных богов (Ос 2.19; Пс 115.4); «чистыми же устами называет (пророк) уста, именующие не богов, но Бога» (блаж. Феодорит, с. 53). - here there is a parallel with Isaiah 6:5-7 :
5 So I said: Woe is me, for I am undone! Because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a live coal which he had taken with the tongs from the altar.
7 And he touched my mouth with it, and said:bBehold, this has touched your lips; your iniquity is taken away, and your sin purged.”
«Дать чистые уста» значит: произвести такую перемену во внутреннем настроении язычников, чтобы все они свято чтили Бога и выражали свои чувства в речи полной истинного благочестия и свободной от всякого следа языческих суеверий, а равно и в соответствующей религиозно-нравственной жизни, – «чтобы все призывали имя Господне и служили Ему единодушно». Подобное сему изрек Бог и устами Исаии: языцы немотствующии скоро научатся глаголати мир (Ис 32.4), и еще: и ясен будет язык гугнивых (Ис 35.6). Посему, оные народы, обученные многобожию, обратит и соделает избранными и чистыми, так что все призовут имя Господне и все народы поработают «под игом единем» (блаж. Феодорит, с. 53). - parallel with Isaiah 32:4 and 35:6
Some commentaries on Zephanian 3:9 (in English): http://biblehub.com/commentaries/zephaniah/3-9.htm
He will purify their lips, which have been polluted with the names of idols and the worship offered to false gods (Psalm 16:4; Hosea 2:17);
will I turn to the people a pure language; I will give them a pure way of worshipping me, in prayer, praises, and the issue of a purified heart, Ezekiel 11:17-20 36:26
Rus: Тогда опять Я дам народам уста чистые, чтобы все призывали имя Господа и служили Ему единодушно.
Church Slavonic: Я́ко тогдá обращý къ лю́демъ язы́къ въ рóдъ егó, éже призывáти: всѣ́мъ и́мя Госпóдне, рабóтати емý подъ и́гомъ еди́нѣмъ.
Explanation (in Russian by A.Lopukhin https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/Lopuhin/tolkovaja_biblija_43/3):
...пророк, говоря о даровании народам Богом чистых уст ..., мысли – это дело Божие по аналогии с тем очистительным актом, который, по Ис 6.5-7, совершен был, по повелению Божию, одним из Серафимов над устами пророка Исаии, вследствие сетования его на нечистоту уст его и уст народа его: Серафим взял клещами горящий уголь с алтаря и, коснувшись им уст пророка, сказал: «беззаконие твое удалено от тебя, и грех твой очищен». Чистота уст здесь предполагает чистоту мыслей, чувств – всего духовного содержания человека. По аналогии с этим нужно понимать и то коллективное очищение уст, которое возвещает народам от лица Божия пророк Софония: он имеет в виду благодарованую чистоту религиозной веры. Уста язычников были осквернены и были нечисты призыванием ложных богов (Ос 2.19; Пс 115.4); «чистыми же устами называет (пророк) уста, именующие не богов, но Бога» (блаж. Феодорит, с. 53). - here there is a parallel with Isaiah 6:5-7 :
5 So I said: Woe is me, for I am undone! Because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a live coal which he had taken with the tongs from the altar.
7 And he touched my mouth with it, and said:bBehold, this has touched your lips; your iniquity is taken away, and your sin purged.”
«Дать чистые уста» значит: произвести такую перемену во внутреннем настроении язычников, чтобы все они свято чтили Бога и выражали свои чувства в речи полной истинного благочестия и свободной от всякого следа языческих суеверий, а равно и в соответствующей религиозно-нравственной жизни, – «чтобы все призывали имя Господне и служили Ему единодушно». Подобное сему изрек Бог и устами Исаии: языцы немотствующии скоро научатся глаголати мир (Ис 32.4), и еще: и ясен будет язык гугнивых (Ис 35.6). Посему, оные народы, обученные многобожию, обратит и соделает избранными и чистыми, так что все призовут имя Господне и все народы поработают «под игом единем» (блаж. Феодорит, с. 53). - parallel with Isaiah 32:4 and 35:6
Some commentaries on Zephanian 3:9 (in English): http://biblehub.com/commentaries/zephaniah/3-9.htm
He will purify their lips, which have been polluted with the names of idols and the worship offered to false gods (Psalm 16:4; Hosea 2:17);
will I turn to the people a pure language; I will give them a pure way of worshipping me, in prayer, praises, and the issue of a purified heart, Ezekiel 11:17-20 36:26
Sunny
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Yes, I didHi Sunny! Have you ever read the prophets? Fascinating stuff. Check out Daniel 12! Shalom
King David
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Yes Sunny! Those who follow Michael (Yahuwah in flesh) will learn ancient Hebrew again. Zephaniah 3:9 Shalom
EddieG305
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Where are the fellow New Age believers? I'm waiting to go in on New Age threads! I am very fascinated with subjects such as chakras, the flower of life, those mind blowing theories of how some parts of the Holy Bible are astronomical [astrological?] metaphors, auras, sacred geometry, reincarnation, and all that Spirit Science yaddah yaddah.
[Just like Christianity and any other practice or religion, I take New Age with a grain of salt.]
[Just like Christianity and any other practice or religion, I take New Age with a grain of salt.]
Red Sky at Morning
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EddieG305
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Yeah, I've seen a couple of his videos already. I totally understand his point of view of why he chose to turn to Christianity.
Red Sky at Morning
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And I get the whole 'point of view' idea... If I wasn't a Christian and had always looked at the world of faith as a plurality of seekers brought together by their common search for the elusive truth, the simplicity of the Gospel message would be intellectually unappealing and those who tried to recommend Jesus as annoying 'one topic' sales people...
Looked at from the other side, try to imagine the frustration of someone part of a group of people caught in a burning building who finds the one exit door. I am emotionally a very easy going person (though I haven't always been!), I have worked in places where literally all my colleagues were New Agers and I know how the Christian message is understood and discussed amongst them. I really don't care much about 'winning' any debates but please consider alternative ideas.
I have read into the New Age myself for a number of years and, whilst never being tempted towards its promise, I can see its attractiveness and popular appeal...
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EddieG305
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There's no debate going on here, although I am always willing to practice my skills in argument. Not just yet, though.
I do want to note that in my introduction post [page 2 of this thread] I did mention that I was raised Christian. For me, [This is my point of view and I'm not claiming to be valid or suggesting others to think like me. I always speak for myself in all my posts.] Christianity didn't feel right. And I'm not saying that New Age does. Or any other religion or practice. In my humble opinion, I can see how anybody can feel like their religion is valid, whatever that religion may be. I can completely understand both sides of the argument. I get it. But as I've gotten older and wiser, I have personally chosen that Christianity wasn't for me. I greatly respect those who are Christian.
That respect gets lost once I notice a Christian aggressively impose their beliefs onto me. It's one thing to share your opinion. It's another to be very disrespectful to persistently attack a "non believer" and claim that your religion is true. Respect and be respected.
Which I appreciate the way you shared your opinion, @Red Sky at Morning. It was very mature.
Corvus Corax
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I'm not a believer, but I'm interested in this stuff.
Tarot etc.
Start a thread about something. I'll join in.
SkepticCat
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I realize this is a big question, but can you elaborate?I am a born again Christian, and the deeper I dig into all aspects of my faith the more grounded I become in it.
I'd also like to hear how you would answer the same question, Thunderian, since you sound very sure. I wish to move closer to God. My faith is more of an intuition and I do not feel grounded strongly enough to be able to refute any other faith on a purely theological/intellectual basis. Being a skeptic at heart I wish to shred any doubt I'm not simply falling victim to my own subconscious psychology.
That 'intuition' is *very* strong right now though... Jesus Christ is just all that makes sense.
Camidria
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There is so many things, I was thinking about starting a different posting specifically on that topic, so I'll have a answer ready for you soon!
Leviathan
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I'm not exactly sure yet but I know I'm not an Atheist. I definitely do believe there's more in this world than we can see. I prayed and read the Bible on a daily basis there for a while, but I sort of neglected it and then never really started again. So I'd say I do lean towards Christian beliefs but I'm not a very good Christian by any means. I just try to say, think, and do what feels right to me. I do fail sometimes but when I do I just accept that it's too late to take it back now and just try again.
Camidria
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Ok the Topic is up if you would want to check it out
Thunderian
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Don't worry about refuting any other faith for now. Jesus Christ is wooing you, and it's wonderful.
My own journey to where I am now in Jesus Christ is a long one. I was raised in a Christian home, and got saved when I was very young, so I really don't know what it's like to be without Christ. That is not to say that I always honoured him or lived a life that was pleasing to him, because I most emphatically did not. I never got grounded in my faith when I was younger -- I didn't pray regularly, read my Bible or have any good habits like that -- and when I left home I wandered far from God.
It wasn't until I had exhausted what the world had to offer and was at about the lowest ebb I could have ever imagined that I finally opened my Bible again and remembered that God loves me. It was a long process from that day to the confidence I have in Jesus Christ today. I had always had my parent's faith, but even though I was saved, I had no personal beliefs or knowledge, and after 25 years of being a Christian, I had to learn what it meant.
Two things stood in my way that I can see. The first was my own sense of worthlessness. How could God love me when I had not only accepted and then spurned his love, but had gone on to explore every depraved imagining of my heart? So I learned about Jesus Christ's righteousness, and how when we accept him we are covered by it. When we accept that we are sinners, and confess our sins to Jesus Christ, he has promised to forgive us. If God forgives me, who am I to hold a grudge against myself? If I believed that Jesus loved me, I couldn't hate myself any longer. I know now that self-hatred and feelings of worthlessness are from Satan. The answer to is to know your Bible -- know the promises of God to believers -- and know how much God loves you.
The second thing that I had to get over was my faith in the Bible itself. Nothing is attacked so frequently, so vehemently and with such hatred as the word of God. And the sad fact is that even most Christians today don't fully trust the Bible. It can be a hard book, with hard words, and we are inundated with people telling us that it's wrong, it's silly, it's hateful and outdated. The first thing that Satan is recorded in scripture as saying is, "Yea, hath God said ...?", essentially asking, did God really say that? And that is at the heart of every false religion, every attack on God's word, and every New Age spin on scripture.
I doubted the Bible. I doubted that God had really condemned homosexuality, because I had gay friends and I loved them and didn't see why God wouldn't want them to be happy. I doubted that sex outside of marriage was wrong, because I was lonely, and God didn't want me to be lonely, did he? I doubted all kinds of things that were plain in scripture, but weren't in line with what I felt in my heart, or didn't seem to line up with what science or history was telling me. This was at the same time as I was struggling with the feeling that God didn't really love me, so if I doubted the parts of the Bible I didn't want to believe, or were difficult, then you can see how it wasn't too hard to doubt the parts of the Bible that I didn't feel like I could believe. Once you start doubting, where do you stop? So all Satan has to do is make you doubt one thing in scripture, and you will start doubting other things for yourself.
Of course, I didn't see it that way. I just knew that some parts of the Bible were unbelievable, and that I was having a hard time believing that God loved me. I didn't see that they were connected. One day, however, I read this verse in Proverbs:
There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
That hit me pretty hard. The ideas I had and the ways that I lived that were contrary to the Bible seemed right to me. But these ways were not God's ways. I had to make a decision then to either believe the whole Bible -- every jot and tittle, as Jesus said -- or continue in my unfulfilling Christian walk. I chose to embrace the word of God, and let him show me how it was true. I asked God to help my unbelief, and he has been faithful to show me the answer to every question I have had of him regarding scripture. I found some good teachers (including Chuck Missler, may God bless him) who loved and trusted God's word completely. Some of the answers I sought took years for me to learn to my satisfaction, but I have learned to approach apparent problems in the Bible with the faith that the answer is there -- I just need to seek it out with God's help. I have 100 percent confidence that the Bible is the word of God, preserved for us as he promised, and that it's his message to the world that he died and rose again for.
Sorry if this sounds like proselytization. I don't know any other way of answering the question I was asked.
I'll pray for you, SkepticCat, that God will lead you into a secure understanding of his word, and of his love for you.
observer
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Think i may be with you on that one. once took a test and it said i was a Unitarian / Wiccan / Pantheist / Pagan in that order . no idea . i just like logic and reason . i see many good things in all religions, and also bad things. but in the end they are merely systems of control. not that that's a bad thing. i just feel i am more than capable of controlling myself and my own morality.