What Could Christianity Possibly Offer Someone That Isnt Christian, That Follows A Different Faith Or Belief?

Daciple

Star
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
1,157
We have a Thread present on the Board now asking about Islam, it was called a Trolling Thread, even tho I do not believe it is. Its up to 8 pages at the moment of this creation and I have personally seen little to no reasons why anyone should follow Islam. With that being said I would like to extend the same question to Christians, what could Christianity possibly offer a Muslim, or Hindu, or even an Atheist?

I will allow others to post their reasons before discussing my own, but I would like to see if Christians can offer reasons as to why anyone would want to convert, or come to,or follow Christ or Christianity...
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,910
I have personally seen little to no reasons why anyone should follow Islam.
truth, logic, worshipping God alone, a daily structure, are not factors for you. They are for many people however.

i used to go the christian club just to play pool for free and get free trips to the cinema. so i suppose that's a reason.
other than that, i see Christianity as a super difficult religion where you have to die to the world and only then you'll be worthy of Jesus to accept you.
It's the path of Ihsan........it's requires killing the nafs/flesh, leaving all else than God...seeing all things through the lens of ihsan means you see God in all things...and that is the only context where Jesus was perceived as God, for people in the state of Ihsan.
So although i respect THAT christianity, it's not something i can follow, too hard. God made islam pretty easy, accessible etc.
 

Unknown Warrior

Established
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
177
I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and that anyone who finds Him and believes in Him will never make a better decision in their life. God is fair and just and He will always take care of His followers. The more you trust in God and trust in Jesus, the more peace and joy you will have. God will reveal Himself to His followers and lead and guide them in all things. He will fill your life with hope and love and will make your life more fulfilling. I am speaking from personal experience and I only wish that I could have devoted my life to God when I was younger. I tried living my life without God and all I had was misery and a lot of pain and suffering. My life is far from perfect but at least now I have peace and love and I live day by day trying to live better and help others.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
14,005
@AspiringSoul

"I see Christianity as a super difficult religion where you have to die to the world and only then you'll be worthy of Jesus to accept you."

Jesus certainly set the bar at perfection, leaving the disciples to ask Him "who then can be saved?". Jesus replied that what was impossible with man is possible with God. Just how that became possible was only made clear after his death and resurrection.

None of us are worthy or ever will be. Instead, we have the "scandal of Grace".

Ephesians 2

1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,910
@AspiringSoul

"I see Christianity as a super difficult religion where you have to die to the world and only then you'll be worthy of Jesus to accept you."

Jesus certainly set the bar at perfection, leaving the disciples to ask Him "who then can be saved?". Jesus replied that what was impossible with man is possible with God. Just how that became possible was only made clear after his death and resurrection.

None of us are worthy or ever will be. Instead, we have the "scandal of Grace".

Ephesians 2

1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
For a good idea what the authentic Christian path requires really read this book
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/guyon/spiritual_torrents.txt

It's s fairly long read but worth it.
 

Damien50

Star
Joined
Apr 22, 2017
Messages
1,788
We have a Thread present on the Board now asking about Islam, it was called a Trolling Thread, even tho I do not believe it is. Its up to 8 pages at the moment of this creation and I have personally seen little to no reasons why anyone should follow Islam. With that being said I would like to extend the same question to Christians, what could Christianity possibly offer a Muslim, or Hindu, or even an Atheist?

I will allow others to post their reasons before discussing my own, but I would like to see if Christians can offer reasons as to why anyone would want to convert, or come to,or follow Christ or Christianity...
I don't even have a particular reason myself that I could ever even convince someone else to choose any religion in particular. All I have to offer are spiritual things that didn't come to me immediately and haven't been revealed in their entirety. Christianity makes me uncomfortable in general, rather than the fellow believers, the option of the high road affects my conscious and unsettles me at times. That section of Scripture that Paul mentions opposing desires for the flesh and the color is an accurate description for myself.

Romans 7:14-25 KJV
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. [15] For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. [16] If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. [17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. [18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. [19] For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. [20] Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. [21] I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. [22] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: [23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. [24] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? [25] I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I get better with time and at times I regress, I rebel, I succumb but when I return it feels right. My thirst has been quenched but my fear lies in abandonment due to my own actions and as much as I want to be good I'm not always so. Yeah I don't have a reason why that I can reasonably explain. I personally acknowledge a wickedness in myself based off my thoughts and fully realized in my actions and I don't think I can keep it at bay on my own and yet I'm free to roll in my muck but despite myself I can always find the love in the law and in God himself.

There is no physical cure or particular amount of discipline, and I sympathize with Solomon for all his God wisdom abandoned the giver and like a sickness his sin overtook him but he never forgot the love of God. I really don't know and from a wordly perspective I can't think why someone might want to when it means being criticized, ostracized, classified, dehumanized to feel whole spiritually.

I am because it is what I genuinely want.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
14,005
For a good idea what the authentic Christian path requires really read this book
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/guyon/spiritual_torrents.txt

It's s fairly long read but worth it.
Interesting read, tied into some of the other topics I had been reading on and filled in the picture somewhat...

"Throughout her years of ministry, she continued to seek a deeper union with God, to the point that she felt God spoke and acted through her. Madame Guyon practiced a philosophy called “Quietism,” which teaches that spiritual perfection can be attained when self is lost in the contemplation of God.”

It is taught by contemplatives that if one practices the contemplative [spiritual] “disciplines,” he or she can become more Christ-like. As Richard Foster and other contemplatives teach, anyone of any religion or belief can connect with God through contemplative prayer (it has nothing to do with a relationship with Jesus Christ).

Quietism is described by one source as “a Christian philosophy that swept through France, Italy and Spain during the 17th century, but it had much earlier origins. The mystics known as Quietistsinsist, with more or less emphasis, on intellectual stillness and interior passivity as essential conditions of perfection. . . . Quietism has been compared to the Buddhist doctrine of Nirvana.”

https://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=5235
 

Unknown Warrior

Established
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
177
I just want to say that living your life for God and Jesus Christ is not easy by any means and we all fall short of living a perfect life. But there is nothing else that will ever fill the emptiness in your life until you do accept God into your life and start living for Him. Speaking from my own experience, I just got tired of trying to do everything my own way and feeling more and more miserable. Now I try to let God lead and guide me and pray for more knowledge of His will for my life. At least now, I can sleep at night and know that I am doing my best day by day.
 

rainerann

Star
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
4,550
I had to really narrow this down, but I think the most concise way I can share what Christianity has to offer is by quoting the passage from Isaiah 61:1-3

"The Spirit of the Sovereign Lord is on me,
because the Lord has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim freedom for the captives
and release from darkness for the prisoners,
2 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor
and the day of vengeance of our God,
to comfort all who mourn,
3 and provide for those who grieve in Zion—
to bestow on them a crown of beauty
instead of ashes,
the oil of joy
instead of mourning,
and a garment of praise
instead of a spirit of despair.
They will be called oaks of righteousness,
a planting of the Lord
for the display of his splendor."

I did a Bible study once that focused on these passages, and it was a good way to see what God wants for our lives. He wants us to be free of bondage created by poverty, betrayal, oppression, etc.; and able to experience joy. My favorite part of these verses was the part about being an oak of righteousness. I don't know why I liked that one the most, but it just seemed so nice to be firmly planted like an oak tree and unmovable.
For me, what God says here is a reflection of who He is, and that is someone who is good who wants good things for anyone who will come to Him. I shouldn't even really use the word good. Exceptional would probably be a better word because the prophet Isaiah is describing things that exceed the expectations for most people at some point in their lives. So God is generous because He will give what is exceptional to anyone who comes to Him without asking for anything equally exceptional in return. He will let you exchange poverty for something better because He is generous and does not suffer from greed even though the whole world belongs to Him.

When Jesus reads these verses allowed and says "Today this Scripture is fulfilled in your hearing" after He has finished reading them(Luke 4:20). This is probably one of my favorite verses because of how it shows that God will do what He says. So that the verses in Isaiah are not just something nice to imagine, but something that He has acted on and fulfilled. Therefore, I don't expect God to watch me go through the motions in this life. I expect Him to intervene and work all things for good (Romans 8:28). I can confidently say that He has done this and so this is what I would say Christianity has to offer.
 

Daciple

Star
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Messages
1,157
i see Christianity as a super difficult religion where you have to die to the world and only then you'll be worthy of Jesus to accept you.
Brother you have complete and total misunderstanding of Christianity!! It is literally the complete and total opposite of what you said. However in past conversations we have had on this forum, I see that you will continually and it seems purposefully misunderstand what the Word of God says to try and keep this incorrect view of Christianity alive for you to reject.

When I was Born Again and Jesus accepted me, I was at the absolute lowest I have ever been in my life, I had nothing to offer Him, I was completely and totally Sinful, full of the World and myself. I had nothing whatsoever of worth at all, I was in a Talbert House which is a Drug Rehab/Halfway House, I was a Drug Addict, and absolutely hated Jesus Christ. Then I cried out for Salvation and in a moment Christ came into my heart and changed my entire life. My desires changed, and I went from a literal Antichrist to preaching the Gospel in one day!

So this idea that one has to die to the world to be accepted by Christ is completely and totally false. Ask all the Christians here, we were ALL completely and totally full of the World and once we REALIZED this, that we have ZERO ability to overcome anything and we are deserving of Death and Hell for our Sins (being full of the World) it is THEN that we Repented and cried out for Salvation and were accepted by Jesus.

Once we were accepted by Jesus in our horrible sinful state, and He came and made His abode in our hearts, He began thru the Holy Spirit to guide us and change us so that we would continually begin to die off to the World and follow the Spirit.

Conversion and acceptance of Christ is literally the exact opposite of what you have stated here sir, I hope one day you realize where you stand before the Lord and cry out for Salvation and when you do, then you too will understand Christ in no way wants you to change anything about yourself before He accepts you. Instead He wants you to come to Him exactly as you are, broken, dirty and drenched in Sin, and then He Himself will cause you to die to the World!!!

Luke 5:30 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?
31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
14,005
@Daciple - you made me remember an old hymn. I grew up hearing it and only just understood what the writer was saying!!!!

Just as I am, without one plea,
But that Thy blood was shed for me,
And that Thou bid’st me come to Thee,
O Lamb of God, I come! I come!

Just as I am, and waiting not
To rid my soul of one dark blot;
To Thee whose blood can cleanse each spot,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come!

Just as I am, though tossed about
With many a conflict, many a doubt;
Fightings within, and fears without,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come!

Just as I am, poor, wretched, blind;
Sight, riches, healing of the mind;
Yes, all I need, in Thee to find,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come!

Just as I am, Thou wilt receive,
Wilt welcome, pardon, cleanse, relieve;
Because Thy promise I believe,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come!

Just as I am, Thy love unknown
Has broken every barrier down;
Now, to be Thine, yea, Thine alone,
O Lamb of God, I come, I come!
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,910
Brother you have complete and total misunderstanding of Christianity!! It is literally the complete and total opposite of what you said. However in past conversations we have had on this forum, I see that you will continually and it seems purposefully misunderstand what the Word of God says to try and keep this incorrect view of Christianity alive for you to reject.

When I was Born Again and Jesus accepted me, I was at the absolute lowest I have ever been in my life, I had nothing to offer Him, I was completely and totally Sinful, full of the World and myself. I had nothing whatsoever of worth at all, I was in a Talbert House which is a Drug Rehab/Halfway House, I was a Drug Addict, and absolutely hated Jesus Christ. Then I cried out for Salvation and in a moment Christ came into my heart and changed my entire life. My desires changed, and I went from a literal Antichrist to preaching the Gospel in one day!

So this idea that one has to die to the world to be accepted by Christ is completely and totally false. Ask all the Christians here, we were ALL completely and totally full of the World and once we REALIZED this, that we have ZERO ability to overcome anything and we are deserving of Death and Hell for our Sins (being full of the World) it is THEN that we Repented and cried out for Salvation and were accepted by Jesus.

Once we were accepted by Jesus in our horrible sinful state, and He came and made His abode in our hearts, He began thru the Holy Spirit to guide us and change us so that we would continually begin to die off to the World and follow the Spirit.

Conversion and acceptance of Christ is literally the exact opposite of what you have stated here sir, I hope one day you realize where you stand before the Lord and cry out for Salvation and when you do, then you too will understand Christ in no way wants you to change anything about yourself before He accepts you. Instead He wants you to come to Him exactly as you are, broken, dirty and drenched in Sin, and then He Himself will cause you to die to the World!!!

Luke 5:30 But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?
31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.
32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.


There are 2 different criteria here
As sinners, confessing and accepting the path given through Christianity, is one thing....
that's the first step.
BUT after that you have to go further to become a true christian.

24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life[a] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

I'm going to talk about islam a little to touch on this topic from an islamic pov.
See in islam, there are 3 levels of faith. The first is iman. Iman means belief. a person can believe yet not become a true muslim. Dying in this state means we do experience this 'death' in the grave, as in the torment in the grave. There's also a chance we get thrown into hell.
Now remember what Jesus said about it being easier for a camel to go through the eye of the needle? This applies here where a person goes to hell in so much darkness BUT even a mustard seed worth of faight(light) can/will eventually redeem us from hell.
Alternatively due to sin a muslim is more likely to suffer in the world for his/her sin but not suffer in the next life. I think for most muslims this will be the case because prophet Mohammad SAW told us so.
The next level, islam/submission is where our carnal nature has been 'subdued' but it is still a constant battle...but for the most part a person experiences the real ideals of faith in this condition.
You can think of David AS in this condition or Job AS as a more extreme example. read the psalms and what do you find? he's an unhappy person...it is a constant struggle.
also in hinduism in both states we are subjects to karma handed out to us from Isvara (God) the Supreme controller...so God constantly does things to us and we constantly struggle to understand why...

NOW
there is a way out.
In Hinduism, it is done by overcoming maya (illusion) of the individual self...as in merging the drop with the ocean and finally becoming free from the influences of karma....
there is no more struggle..so a person in this state can appear physically poor and broken in this world yet that person is in bliss and experiencing the unity of consciousness.
In islam this is called Ihsan and it is the highest state of faith.


So how does this apply to christianity? regardless of beliefs, the metaphysics is still the same...one reality...what they called 'unity of consciousness' and 'enlightenment' is precisely what Jesus spoke of as 'I am in the Father and the Father is in me'. I won't get into the theeology here...it's easy to misinterpret it though.
A true Christian has to kill the ego..as in the individual self and merge with the universal self.

So let's look at some things Jesus said amongst many (meaning i can't even give my view real justice here because there are so many proofs0.

24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life[a] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 26 For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul? Or what shall a man give in return for his soul?

On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.”

Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

Unity of consciousness!!

Anyone who loves his father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me;


As for your story, im sure you had subjective experiences of being accepted. I'm sure you're sincere...but christianity isn't about
"yeh i'm weak, so i accept Jesus and he cleanses me from it"
how does that even make sense? what change has come in you? is it a subjective change?


t is not really possible for the vast majority of us to suddenly wake up one day after confessing sin to God and be free from carnal impulses/attachments. Our carnal nature might take a rest from time to time but it comes back stronger...so it's obvious we require something external to bring that change in us.
How can that be done?
when i talk about GNOSIS, it has nothing to do with a 'gnostic sect' for example. Gnosis means knowledge...and in islam it is called marifah.
In sufism, the 4 steps of sufism you have Shariah (the law) then Tariqah (the order, ie like christianity is an order built on the mosaic law originally but this changed for gentiles)...and then you have marifah (gnosis).
So, as things stand you are in the tariqah of Jesus...you've been accepted on that level, but to progress you have to experience the gnosis of Jesus. How?
Gnosis is acheived through a mystical connection, it is not just something you wish and it happens. Your heart has to be free from other influences until only Jesus remains in your heart..you are in Me, and I am in you. .and you have to nurture love for him in your heart.
You have to pretty much try yout best to become like him, to create an environment that reflects him both internally and externally. you have to read his teachings and try to live by them...etc etc...long story short in the end his light is reflected in you...and it becomes your light. So you become an extension of Jesus and his personality is absorbed into yours. That means, if he 'died' then you also die with him...
"you are in Me, and I am in you. "

I'm sure, you already posess some of this..but real gnosis is deeper and even has levels within it. You obviously cannot compare your gnosis with that of the early christians, they not only saw him in the flesh but christians after them, saw them...so that gnosis was stronger.

ONLY when you've done achieved gnosis you can get to the next stage which in sufism we call Haqiqah (the ultimate truth) and experience the things Jesus said you're meant to experience ie unity with him and the Father, as in you merge with the ocean and are no longer subject to your carnal nature.

Another way to connect with Jesus faster ie acheive gnosis, is to consciously meditate/concentrate on Jesus, your image of him, into the Theta brainwave state, overcoming sense perception for a while...
you might well fall asleep in that state....and it might not happen the first time depending on your defects but you will see him. If not the first time then eventually...it's like Jesus said...knock on the door and you will be answered.

The above, is not some poor occult /demonic activity, it is your own nature/soul..having the ability to concentrate on a single person/object beyond sense perception is what makes you acheive gnosis. ie you get to know that thing from the souls perspective.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 14, 2017
Messages
3,910
I debated with myself whether I should write anything because of some opinions I've read in other threads, but here goes:

For me, following Christ offered me freedom from the power that sin had over me. I was into very fucked up sexual practices (don't ask for your own good).
And from the moment that I accepted Christ into my life I never wanted to do any of those things that defiled me. I don't even think about sex anymore let alone deviant sex, whereas before, I thought about it almost every waking moment and even while sleeping too (I'm not exaggerating one bit unfortunately)

Apart from being free from that, another important thing I've experienced is that since I've first confessed that Christ is Lord I felt... whole. I don't know how to describe it otherwise. Where I once felt a numbing void now there's, most probably what is known as the Holy Spirit.
I'm finally at peace and I can feel real joy, the type of joy that you can feel in every fiber of your being and that is not dependent on something that happens in one's life.

But just because sin doesn't have that hold on me anymore doesn't mean I CAN'T sin. I did choose to be a dumbass a few times, I chose to lie a few times in order to not reveal the farce that I used to be because of shame, I held on to anger a couple of times because of pride/ego, really dumb, petty stuff. Hopefully, my stupid days are over or approaching their end :)
jodi?

 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
14,005
@sim hae

Still Ephesians 2

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
 

Unknown Warrior

Established
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
177
I am sure that everyone, including people who lived with and knew Jesus personally, has done some things that were completely unforgivable and felt totally ashamed to admit. That is what Satan wants is to get people to believe that they are unworthy of forgiveness. But Jesus died for our sins and He will forgive those who repent. The Apostle Paul claimed that he was chief among sinners. King David also sinned against God and repented. Mary Magdalene repented and once had seven devils cast out of her. I am sure that we all have done horrible things that we want to forget about and Jesus is the only one who can forgive and cleanse us from our unrighteousness.
 

Alanantic

Star
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
1,384
I am sure that everyone, including people who lived with and knew Jesus personally, has done some things that were completely unforgivable and felt totally ashamed to admit. That is what Satan wants is to get people to believe that they are unworthy of forgiveness. But Jesus died for our sins and He will forgive those who repent. The Apostle Paul claimed that he was chief among sinners. King David also sinned against God and repented. Mary Magdalene repented and once had seven devils cast out of her. I am sure that we all have done horrible things that we want to forget about and Jesus is the only one who can forgive and cleanse us from our unrighteousness.
If you can't forgive yourself, even God's/Jesus' forgiveness won't help, and if you CAN forgive yourself, you don't need God's/Jesus' forgiveness.
 

Red Sky at Morning

Superstar
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
14,005
If you can't forgive yourself, even God's/Jesus' forgiveness won't help, and if you CAN forgive yourself, you don't need God's/Jesus' forgiveness.
There is a distinction between moral guilt and emotional shame.

Shame is breaking our own standards and feel embarrassed and disappointed by our own actions. You can be ashamed of things that are not even sin. You can even feel shame for doing the right thing if your role models and your morals are in conflict.

Guilt is external to our own definitions. If I speed in my car and I get booked, I am guilty whether I agree with the speed limit or not.
 

Alanantic

Star
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Messages
1,384
There is a distinction between moral guilt and emotional shame.

Shame is breaking our own standards and feel embarrassed and disappointed by our own actions. You can be ashamed of things that are not even sin. You can even feel shame for doing the right thing if your role models and your morals are in conflict.

Guilt is external to our own definitions. If I speed in my car and I get booked, I am guilty whether I agree with the speed limit or not.
You are absolutely correct. And your point is...
 
Top