Were religions the first propagators of Fake News?

Red Sky at Morning

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No.

Will you concede that a genocidal son murdering prick of a god cannot be a good god?

Regards
DL
I would concede that if your first proposition were correct that your second one would have logic.

The problem is that is simply isn’t. Each element bears some examination...

“Genocidal” - the battles in the book of Joshua are often used to support this slur but fails to take into account who the Nephilim were and what they were doing in Canaan.

“Son Murdering” - fails to take into account the nature of the Trinity.

“Prick” - proves you are, at present an “anti-theist”, not simply someone who doubts Gods existence. You take your hatred of God out on those who follow Him.

How rational are you to hate a being you don’t believe in? I have no malice toward the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny!

P.s. on the subject of not answering questions, you never did answer my question about abiogenesis - do you believe it is possible and that naturalistic processes alone could form life? Are you willing to rebut the observations of Dr James Tour on the subject?

https://www.vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/republicans-do-you-really-want-a-leader-who-is-a-creationist.2675/page-4#post-198973
 
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Wigi

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No.

Will you concede that a genocidal son murdering prick of a god cannot be a good god?

Regards
DL
What 'genocidal murdering god'?
What is your description of a 'good God' in a fallen creation where sin is the norm and mankind is selfish and violent in a day and age where the word 'morality' hasn't been invented by christians yet ?
 
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I would concede that if your first proposition were correct that your second one would have logic.

The problem is that is simply isn’t. Each element bears some examination...

“Genocidal” - the battles in the book of Joshua are often used to support this slur but fails to take into account who the Nephilim were and what they were doing in Canaan.

“Son Murdering” - fails to take into account the nature of the Trinity.

“Prick” - proves you are, at present an “anti-theist”, not simply someone who doubts Gods existence. You take your hatred of God out on those who follow Him.

How rational are you to hate a being you don’t believe in? I have no malice toward the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny!

P.s. on the subject of not answering questions, you never did answer my question about abiogenesis - do you believe it is possible and that naturalistic processes alone could form life? Are you willing to rebut the observations of Dr James Tour on the subject?

https://www.vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/republicans-do-you-really-want-a-leader-who-is-a-creationist.2675/page-4#post-198973
I do not care what conditions were around Nephelim and all, in your book of myths.

Any god who can cure as well as kill, and takes the satanic moral ground of killing instead of curing, is a satanic rick of a god.

Show your moral sense by telling us if you would kill instead of cure.

Regards
DL
 

Wigi

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Look in your bible. He is there. If you do not see him, you show your corrupted morals.

Regards
DL
I don't see a genocidal murdering son. I just see a God who forgives and practice Justice.

You said
Any god who can cure as well as kill, and takes the satanic moral ground of killing instead of curing, is a satanic rick of a god.
And what about those who refused to be cured and/or refused peace?
What happens if I say, "you'll fall into the fire" and you refuse to listen thinking that you know better than me what's going to happen?

What's your description of a 'good God' in a fallen creation ?
 

Red Sky at Morning

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I do not care what conditions were around Nephelim and all, in your book of myths.

Any god who can cure as well as kill, and takes the satanic moral ground of killing instead of curing, is a satanic rick of a god.

Show your moral sense by telling us if you would kill instead of cure.

Regards
DL
Consider this then. Perhaps sometime you will break out of this one argumentation line and start looking at the evidence for God’s signature in creation.

If you find it, you will then be faced by a question. You may have persuaded yourself that exist or not, you hate God. Being at odds with a pretend god will have very different implications to being at odds with a real one.

Rather than repeat the same kind of posts, as someone who prides yourself on rationalism, why not examine some evidence then come back for a genuine scientific discussion?
 

justjess

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It’s not hating god. It’s believing whole heartedly that the god YOU believe in is a horrible person and therefore can’t be god and the actual god is something else entirely. You can hate a version of god you don’t believe in without hating the actual god.

I think the Bible’s version of god is simply awful. I do not believe the actual god to be awful. I hate your god, I do not hate the actual god.

The children of Egypt was genocide. Especially when the Bible also says the sins of the father do not belong to their children and vice Versa.
 

Wigi

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I think the Bible’s version of god is simply awful. I do not believe the actual god to be awful. I hate your god, I do not hate the actual god.
How could you hate a God you think is non-existent?
You talk about an 'actual God'. Fine and what's your description of a good God?

The children of Egypt was genocide. Especially when the Bible also says the sins of the father do not belong to their children and vice Versa.
You mean, the part were Pharaoh said to kill all the new born and God spoke to Moses years later to warn Pharaoh that it will happen to him if he refuse to set them free ?
 

justjess

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How could you hate a God you think is non-existent?
You talk about an 'actual God'. Fine and what's your description of a good God?


You mean, the part were Pharaoh said to kill all the new born and God spoke to Moses years later to warn Pharaoh that it will happen to him if he refuse to set them free ?
The same way I can hate a character in a story.

Yeah, that part. No matter how you spin it, it was evil. The sins of the father do not belong to their children. Your own book says it’s so.
 

Red Sky at Morning

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It’s not hating god. It’s believing whole heartedly that the god YOU believe in is a horrible person and therefore can’t be god and the actual god is something else entirely. You can hate a version of god you don’t believe in without hating the actual god.

I think the Bible’s version of god is simply awful. I do not believe the actual god to be awful. I hate your god, I do not hate the actual god.

The children of Egypt was genocide. Especially when the Bible also says the sins of the father do not belong to their children and vice Versa.
Ok @justjess - so we are all being open and honest, if there is a god you believe in...

1: What attributes does he/she/it possess?

2: What attributes commonly associated with a Judeo-Christian understanding to you reject? (E.g. omnipotence, eternality, holiness, omnipresence etc)

Thanks

P.s. don’t feel you have to get back to me right away but I would be genuinely interested in your response.
 
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practice Justice.
Is it justice to accept or demand the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty instead of just forgiving without bloodshed?

And what about those who refused to be cured and/or refused peace?
Your god is said to be all powerful and such a good would have an all powerful power of persuasion.
But hey, if you want to think too incompetent to persuade his own creation, go ahead.

What's your description of a 'good God' in a fallen creation ?
I do not see a fallen creation but that does not matter for my reply.

A good god is, as Jesus said, one who will heal the sick and not kill them.

Regards
DL
 

Wigi

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The same way I can hate a character in a story.

Yeah, that part. No matter how you spin it, it was evil. The sins of the father do not belong to their children. Your own book says it’s so.
It was evil because God warned him and proved He didn't lie?
Is it evil for God to judge people in accordance to their actions ? If you can explain by what standard judgement is evil even after many warnings, I would like to hear your explanations.
 
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Wigi

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Is it justice to accept or demand the punishment of the innocent instead of the guilty instead of just forgiving without bloodshed?
What makes you innocent before God :
Obedience or rebellion?

Your god is said to be all powerful and such a good would have an all powerful power of persuasion.
That's why He gave signs.

if you want to think too incompetent to persuade his own creation
You're free to listen the warnings. If you refuse you're the only one who gets hurt.

A good god is, as Jesus said, one who will heal the sick and not kill them.
Indeed God can heal the sick but some people refuse to be healed and/or refuse peace.

Are you saying that a good God need to deny your right to make choices in accordance to your will and force you to behave in a way that is considered good according to Him?
 
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And here is the intellectually dishonest slant of your argument. You attempt to accuse God of cruelty based on His actions in a book yet refuse to listen to or investigate the principles and configurations He establishes in that same book that may cast doubt on your fixed opinion of Him. You pick and choose which parts of the bible you want to debate on or use as evidence of God's cruelty while casting aside any explanations for those principles.
The explanations for Yahweh’s wanton cruelty, jealousy and anger and all around immoral behavior that we would not accept in any person only make it worse.
 
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Thanks for your interest.

but are you averse to all forms of supernaturalism?
Yes.
I do not mind building various fictitious scenarios when one is examining issues and seeks an ideal position.

I have worked with many engineers and take all concepts to infinity/super normal situation to create a proof of concept.

the transcending of ordinary human thought,
What Gnosis is is not transcending human thought. It is accessing or engaging our right brain hemisphere by activating our pineal gland through meditation the way mystics and gurus say they do.

I think that it is just us finding what Freud and Jung called our Father/Mother Complex.

We, as humans, cannot transcend human thinking and actions. Apotheosis, when I use the word, usually remove the divine reference as divine is a label that can only be given to a person and only an overinflated ego will apply it to ones self.

a very definite type of supernaturalism is both presented and promoted.
As stated above, the Father Complex is not easily accessible but once found is obviously not supernatural.

Any version of god that we might invent can only be found in our minds. This is ancient wisdom that Christianity has forgotten. If you look at the creation painting at the Vatican, you can easily see that god is overlaid on our right brain hemisphere and the same esoteric notion is what the Egyptian eye shows.

The Jesus I see in scriptures, not the Roman one, clearly shows this Gnostic Christian way of thinking and advisdes us to use him as our mantra to do what he did.


Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

Jesus knew that the church would want to dissuade us from following his lead as it frees us from religious control and makes us our own best judge of all things. He gave the following warning to those like most religionists who would try to dissuade those who, like me, are perpetual seeker and have not, like most Christians, become idol worshipers of a genocidal son murdering moral monster while thinking him good.

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Regards
DL
 
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You mean, the part were Pharaoh said to kill all the new born and God spoke to Moses years later to warn Pharaoh that it will happen to him if he refuse to set them free ?
Are these just edicts?
Did god live up to their standards of excellence?

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The sonshall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquityof the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and thewickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put todeath because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because oftheir fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Regards
DL
 
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Ok @justjess - so we are all being open and honest, if there is a god you believe in...

What attributes commonly associated with a Judeo-Christian understanding to you reject? (E.g. omnipotence, eternality, holiness, omnipresence etc)
.
Your ideology begins by saying that god is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways.

All that is said of god after that is obviously a lie.

Regards
DL
 

Wigi

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Are these just edicts?
Did god live up to their standards of excellence?

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The sonshall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquityof the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and thewickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put todeath because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because oftheir fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

Regards
DL
You haven't answered my question :

What makes you innocent before God: Obedience or rebellion ?

Also, I still don't know your definition of a good God.
For you, a 'good God' basically agree with 'do what thou wilt' and nobody should be judged even when they refuse to be safe?
 
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