UFO Disclosure and AI

[Red Sky at Morning]

@DanRaleigh
You said...

“We know that phenomena such as speaking in tongues and automatic writing can be seen in the scripture.

[now this is subtle - I have heard tongues inspired by the Holy Spirit and also I gave heard demonic tongues. The two have a very different spiritual character. Additionally, there is a difference between writing under the inspiration of God and automatic writing. With the former, free will engages with God’s spirit to express ideas beyond the individuals human limits. In the latter, automatic writing subverts the mind and free will and uses the writers hand like a

However, we could see an AI-based application behind these experiences. Meaning, someone has deceived us using a technology that is highly advanced.

[in conflating the experience of the above, you are not distinguishing between the spiritual forces behind these phenomenon]

Due to this reason, I cannot agree with your statements related to God and the Bible.”

^ I can see that from the stance you take. I don’t want to put words in your mouth but would you identify as a scientific materialist who rejects the idea of a “spiritual” realm in favour of the idea that it simply represents intelligences and technologies above our own?

 

[DanRaleigh]

As said by the interview declassified documents show in the 1940's, specifically says they are not space aliens but interdimensional beings...in other words, demons.

Additionally, there is a difference between writing under the inspiration of God and automatic writing. With the former, free will engages with God’s spirit to express ideas beyond the individuals human limits. In the latter, automatic writing subverts the mind and free will and uses the writers hand like a

However, we could see an AI-based application behind these experiences. Meaning, someone has deceived us using a technology that is highly advanced.

[in conflating the experience of the above, you are not distinguishing between the spiritual forces behind these phenomenon

@seekinheart @Red Sky at Morning, what you see below are capabilities of automatic writing applications. This I have mentioned in one of my writings. Can you let me know your answers to these questions highlighted in red?

1). Write in any language even though we have no knowledge of the language: (Since ASI can control the hand to do the writing, the above experience can be replicated (also to make sense of this think about the future possibilities of the possessed hand experiment)

“Automatic writing in 28 different languages including 3 dead languages (Latin, Chaldaic and Hieroglyphic”

Source: Carlos Mirabelli | Psi Encyclopedia

If we develop an automatic writing application that communicates with a neural interface, can we replicate this reported experience? And also is it possible to explain such experiences/data in a logical/meaningful way, if an AI-based application is behind such experiences?

2). Write about any subject professionally even though we have no knowledge of the subject: Since ASI is the author, the below experiences can be replicated.

i). Carlos Mirabelli: “Mirabelli’s linguistic productions, on ‘a wide range of subjects from medicine, law, sociology, to astronomy, musical science and literature’,11 are remarkable because, as Playfair noted, ‘All witnesses I have interviewed agree without hesitation that Mirabelli could not even speak either of his own languages (Italian and Portuguese) correctly.”

Source: Carlos Mirabelli | Psi Encyclopedia

ii). Chico Xavier: “He has written books covering a wide range of genres and styles: novels, poetry, children’s books, short stories, letters, and essays on scientific and philosophical topics. [1]”

Source: INVESTIGATING THE FIT AND ACCURACY OF ALLEGED MEDIUMISTIC WRITING: A CASE STUDY OF CHICO XAVIER'S LETTERS

If we develop an automatic writing application that communicates with a neural interface, can we replicate this reported experience? And also is it possible to explain such experiences/data in a logical/meaningful way, if an AI-based application is behind such experiences?

To understand future possibilities see where GPT-3 is heading by following this link:

OpenAI’s new language generator GPT-3 is shockingly good—and completely mindless

“Sabeti linked to a blog post where he showed off short stories, songs, press releases, technical manuals, and more that he had used the AI to generate.”

3). Rapid writing: ASI can use our hands to write pretty fast by controlling neural correlates associate with writing. And after all, it is automatic writing.

i). Carlos Mirabelli: “Carlos would write many pages at a truly remarkable speed in the language of the communicator.”

Source: Medium Carmine Carlos Mirabelli

ii). According to Wendell Stevens: “When he got home from that meeting, he sat down in his little bedroom and started to write the message and then it came through automatic. He was trying to remember what they said when it came through automatically in longhand and he wrote it rapidly faster than he can write normally under some kind of control and he wrote 15 or 20 pages full. And then stopped and he had the first message. And when he looked at it he realized he has gotten the entire communication word by word.”

Source:

If we develop an automatic writing application that communicates with a neural interface, can we replicate this reported experience? And also is it possible to explain such experiences/data in a logical/meaningful way, if an AI-based application is behind such experiences?

4). While the hand is doing the writing, we can engage in a conversation: Since ASI is the author, we could replicate the below experience.

“Spirits working through mediums could use the medium to write on one subject with the left hand, simultaneously on another subject with the right hand while the medium carried on a conversation on a third topic.”

Source: Spiritualism, History, And The Great Awakenings by Delaney E. Lauderback

If we develop an automatic writing application that communicates with a neural interface, can we replicate this reported experience? And also is it possible to explain such experiences/data in a logical/meaningful way, if an AI-based application is behind such experiences?

5). We can produce writings from different handwriting styles. And even duplicate the handwriting styles of others: Since ASI is the author we could replicate the below experience.

i). “The best cases are those in which the method of the manifestation was of a convincing character. Blanche Abercromby’s is the strongest of all : she gave the news of her death before it could have been normally known, and she imitated the handwriting, not the signature alone, of her earth life, a feat that no other spirit achieved so satisfactorily.” – Once the monitoring ASI (here I’m referring to the technology behind the UFO phenomenon and the ASI that is being deployed by them) detects the death of a person, the ASI can use hands of the medium/or any person to write a message by imitating handwriting style of the deceased individual.

Source: The Controls of Stainton Moses by A. W. Trethewy – (p.181)

ii). “and that, in many cases, this handwriting has been recognised as that of a dead relative or friend.”

Source: Personal Experiences In Spiritualism: Including The Official Account And Record Of The American Palladino Seances – (p. 49)

iii). “Piper’s case, the spirit claims to take entire control of the medium’s body (in other words, to be an example of possession, like the Watseka Wonder already noticed). The medium then speaks, not in her own voice, but in the voice so far as she can do so of the alleged spirit; her handwriting is not her own, but changes with that of each spirit who uses her body; her gestures are not her normal ones, but may be characteristic of the discarnate spirit who claims to be present. In other words, the medium speaks and acts in every way as the spirit who claims to be in control of her body would do.” – When controlling neural correlates associate with this experience, ASI can use a cloned personality to exhibit personality characteristics of a deceased person. See channeling experiences that I have mentioned above to make sense of this claim.

Source: Are the Dead Alive?: The Problem of Physical Research That the World’s Leading Scientists Are Trying to Solve, and the Progress They Have Made by Fremont Rider – (p. 269)

iv). “In what was given under these circumstances she wrote for us the replies in conversations with what purported to be the spirits of three deceased relatives, the wife of my brother, my brother Alfred, and cousin Harvey, who had for several years been my most intimate and beloved friend; and the handwriting of the three series of communication was a better imitation of their writing than I, knowing it, could have produced. That of my sister-in-law I was not so familiar with, though my brother recognized it as that of his wife, but that of our brother was a perfect reproduction down to the smallest accidents, and that which was given as the responses of my cousin equally so, and executed with a rapidity of which I was incapable–a large scrawling hand, that of our brother being of a character entirely opposed, slowly and laboriously formed, with occasional omissions of the last line of a final n, quite common in his writing.”

Source: The Cosmic Relations and Immortality by Henry Holt – (p. 341)

If we develop an automatic writing application that communicates with a neural interface, can we replicate this reported experience? And also is it possible to explain such experiences/data in a logical/meaningful way, if an AI-based application is behind such experiences?

6). We can imitate the writing styles of authors: Since ASI can imitate the writing styles of others, we could replicate the below experience.

“In 2014, a study was published in a peer reviewed medical journal by a group of professors from the University of Sao Paulo, in which Chico Xavier’s writings were compared to the deceased author. The research consisted of analyzing 13 letters known to be from an author by the name of J .P. in both his physical incarnation and Xavier’s psychographs. From these documents, the researchers identified 99 items that could be tested for comparison between J.P.’s documents, both when he was living and dead. They also contacted the deceased entities former friends and relatives for validation. Their findings were astonishing. The researchers concluded that 98 percent of the compared items were accurate (rated a clear and precise fit).”

Source: Reality Denied: Firsthand Experiences with Things that Can’t Happen – But Did by John B. Alexander

If we develop an automatic writing application that communicates with a neural interface, can we replicate this reported experience? And also is it possible to explain such experiences/data in a logical/meaningful way, if an AI-based application is behind such experiences?

7). We can write backward or even do mirror writing easily: Since ASI controls the hand, we can replicate the below experience.

“Then, again, when the guides are writing in reply to a private question put by some friend of mine they write wrong side up, so that the friend sitting opposite to me can read the writing and I cannot. They seem to write this way just as easily as the other. Sometimes there is mirror-writing. Some- times each word in a sentence is written backwards, and sometimes the whole sentence is written backwards, beginning with the last letter of the last word. In a few cases only have we thought, that the handwriting resembled what the supposed spirit wrote in life. “

Source: Human Personality And Its Survival Of Bodily Death Vol Ii by Frederic W. H. Myers

If we develop an automatic writing application that communicates with a neural interface, can we replicate this reported experience? And also is it possible to explain such experiences/data in a logical/meaningful way, if an AI-based application is behind such experiences?

8). We can use both hands to write even if we don’t have such an ability. Further, ASI can control the left hand to write a medicine-related topic in Spanish and use the right hand to write a poem in English: Here the ASI can use different parameters to control left and right motor neural circuits simultaneously.

“I have said that some mediums write with both hands at once, at the same time carrying on a conversation with a third person (see Aksakoff). Mansfield wrote simultaneously with both hands in two different languages, while speaking of other subjects with persons present; among other things he announced the death of Jacobs, which was taking place at that moment (Moses). Moses also once noted three instruments of sound operating at once in a seance, — trumpet, table, and drum.”
“How can we explain the fact that the psychic force of a medium can not only be transformed into motor and sensory force, but simultaneously acts in three different directions and with three different purposes? And if it is impossible for a sane man, with senses undimmed, to turn his attention so fixedly in three different directions at once as to obtain objective phenomena, how is this possible for a medium in a state of evident insensibility?”
“Furthermore, there are things that take place against the will of the medium, and even of the so-called operating spirit.”

Source: After Death–what? by Cesare Lombroso – (p. 160)

If we develop an automatic writing application that communicates with a neural interface, can we replicate this reported experience? And also is it possible to explain such experiences/data in a logical/meaningful way, if an AI-based application is behind such experiences?

9). We can write about any subject continuously without premeditation: Since ASI will be the author, the following experiences can be replicated.

“Madame Ouyon states in her autobiography, that when she was composing her works she would experience a sudden and irresistible inclination to take up her pen ; though feeling wholly incapable of literary composition, and not even knowing the subject on which she would be impelled to write. If she resisted this impulse it was at the cost of the most intense discomfort. She would then begin to write with extraordinary swiftness; words, elaborate arguments, and appropriate quotations coming to her without reflection, and so quickly that one of her longest books was written in one and a half days.”
“** Similar statements are made of St. Teresa, who declared that in writing her books she was powerless to set down anything but that which her Master put into her mind. So Blake said of * Milton ‘ and ‘ Jerusalem,’ ‘ I have written the poems from im* mediate dictation, twelve or sometimes twenty or thirty lines at a time, without premeditation and even against my will. The time it has taken in writing was thus rendered non-existent, and an inmiense poem exists which seems to be the labor of a long life, all produced without labor or study.'”

Source: The Cosmic Relations and Immortality by Henry Holt – (p. 340)

If we develop an automatic writing application that communicates with a neural interface, can we replicate this reported experience? And also is it possible to explain such experiences/data in a logical/meaningful way, if an AI-based application is behind such experiences?

10). Our hands can reply to mental questions: By decoding the thoughts of people ASI can reply to mental questions.

“The hand wrote legibly and neatly in reply to mental, i.e., unspoken questions, she having no control of the muscles so long as the ‘ influence ‘ . . . chose to use it. She knew what was written only when the writing was finished and she read it, as we did; and the writing was . . . quite as regular and well formed when her eyes were bandaged. … As a further test of the involuntary character of this we… tried her with… my brother talking with her from one side of the table, while she was writing in reply to my mental questions on the other…..
“…. Under these circumstances she wrote for us the replies in conversations with what purported to be the spirits of three deceased relatives … and the handwriting of the… series of communications was a better imitation of their writing than I, knowing it, could have produced. That of my sister- in-law… my brother recognized … as that of his wife, but that of our brother was a perfect reproduction down to the smallest accidents, and that which was given as the responses of my cousin equally so, and executed with a rapidity of which I was incapable — a large scrawling hand, that of our brother being of a character entirely opposed, slowly and laboriously formed, with occasional omissions of the last line of a final n quite common in his writing.”
Click to expand...

Source: The Cosmic Relations and Immortality by Henry Holt – (p. 341)

If we develop an automatic writing application that communicates with a neural interface, can we replicate this reported experience? And also is it possible to explain such experiences/data in a logical/meaningful way, if an AI-based application is behind such experiences?

Is it that your answer to all these questions is yes? Or else if you think that some experiences cannot be replicated or some experiences cannot be explained in the way I stated, what are those experiences?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@DanRaleigh

A philosophical question - does the ability to replicate something invalidate the original?

e.g. Do the knock off Gucci bags (even if they look very similar) as sold by street sellers at holiday destinations mean those made by Gucci are suspect and tainted by that process?

 

[DanRaleigh]

A philosophical question - does the ability to replicate something invalidate the original?

I will help you to differentiate an experience associate with a spiritual being and an experience associate with artificial intelligence-based application. But can you first let me know your answer to these questions?

If we develop an automatic writing application that communicates with a neural interface, can we replicate this reported experience? And also is it possible to explain such experiences/data in a logical/meaningful way, if an AI-based application is behind such experiences?

Is it that your answer to all these questions is yes? Or else if you think that some experiences cannot be replicated or some experiences cannot be explained in the way I stated, what are those experiences?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I will help you to differentiate an experience associate with a spiritual being and an experience associate with artificial intelligence-based application. But can you first let me know your answer to these questions?

What capacities do you believe this AI to have?

Can it read thoughts?
Is it everywhere?
Has it got all knowledge?
Does it know the future?

etc etc

 

[seekinheart]

What capacities do you believe this AI to have?

Can it read thoughts?
Is it everywhere?
Has it got all knowledge?
Does it know the future?

etc etc

My grandad who has a very baby faith but is getting there, was watching a documentary, panorama, about chinese AI, they now are using a tracing system in China all based on A.I. His question to me was where does God fit into all of this?

Over the years, ive tried to outline the notion of secular/spiritual and technological deception, that we can make a great case for is outlined in the Bible, but the ruler of this world, has blinded people to the possibility of the true nature of reality. Im starting to think this level of discernment, is supernaturally gifted from the Lord.

A gift and a curse though.

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow." - Ecclesiastes 1:18.21 Feb 2011

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@DanRaleigh

The reason why I asked about AI’s (or people acting under their instruction) knowing the future was to explore how they might fit into fulfilled prophecies, which were still future at the time of writing:-

Isaiah 46

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

With that in mind, how might AI’s arrange for these events?

 

[DanRaleigh]

What capacities do you believe this AI to have?

Can it read thoughts?
Is it everywhere?
Has it got all knowledge?
Does it know the future?

etc etc

I think this discussion will not go anywhere, if you don't understand if these can be done or not. The literature on spiritualism tells us that someone used artificial intelligence to establish spiritualism on Earth.

If we develop an automatic writing application that communicates with a neural interface, can we replicate this reported experience? And also is it possible to explain such experiences/data in a logical/meaningful way, if an AI-based application is behind such experiences?

Is it that your answer to all these questions is yes? Or else if you think that some experiences cannot be replicated or some experiences cannot be explained in the way I stated, what are those experiences?

Let me ask this question instead of those questions. According to you, what was the cause behind the establishment of spiritualism on Earth in the middle of 19th century? Is it that souls of the dead contacted us or an intelligence claims to be souls of the dead contacted us?

 

[Tidal]

..I disagree with anyone who claims that aliens are visiting the Earth or visited the Earth in ancient times..

The evidence suggests otherwise, for example the bible can be regarded as a chronicle of eyewitness accounts of alien visitations over many centuries..
Example-
"There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown" (Genesis 6:4)

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

According to you, what was the cause behind the establishment of spiritualism on Earth in the middle of 19th century? Is it that souls of the dead contacted us or an intelligence claims to be souls of the dead contacted us?

I think there are a number of possibilities. This is not based on the generic snake-oil forms of spiritism but on examples where a medium conveys information that only the person seeking contact and the purported dead person would know...

- It may be that the disembodied spirits of dead people are actually trying to make contact.

- It may be that something pretending to be that spirit is trying to make contact.

On this second consideration, the “intelligence”, whatever that might have been must have either been able to access the persons memory and bring to light the one that pertains to the person, or to have been present though invisible during the private conversation that was only observed by the seeker and the purported dead person. As some of the “ghosts” who bring information are separated by more than a human lifetime, normal human agency can be ruled out.

Therefore, we have either an undying spiritual intelligence or an undying artificial one.

Given the prohibition on spiritism in the Bible, and the often anti biblical messages given by these spirits, you might reasonably conclude that if they were spirits (but not those of dead people) they might well be both evil and deceptive.

I feel the same basic analysis applies to aliens.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Additionally, when looking into demonic manifestations, the inescapable conclusion is that these spiritual entities are uncommonly evil...

 

[DanRaleigh]

- It may be that the disembodied spirits of dead people are actually trying to make contact.

@Red Sky at Morning , They are not trying; they have already managed to convince their existence to human beings around the world. This is why Dr. Peebles stated:

"Though Spiritualists number millions upon millions in all enlightened countries — and though there are more or less Spiritualists in every church in the land, (unlessit be that little seven- by-nine side issue — the Seventh-day Second Adventists) — there are those who ask half sneeringly, "Who are these Spiritualists?" My brief reply is: They constitute the thoughtful brains of the world. I repeat, the brainiest people of the world to-day are straight out-and-out Spiritualists, or favorably in-clined to Spiritualism."

Source: What Is Spiritualism, Who Are These Spiritualists And What Has Spiritualism Done For The World? by James Martin Peebles (p.12)

Let's walk through your hypothesis one by one. Your first hypothesis indicates that disembodied spirits of dead started communicating with us actively in the 19th century:

To convince us that they exist, they used their capabilities such as:

Levitation of objects
Levitate objects instantly according to your thoughts.
Materialize objects
Dematerialize objects
Stimulation of auditory, visual and motor neural circuits(any other neural circuit as well) and control these circuits in real-time.
Mind reading
Give experiences that is similar to augmented reality experiences

You could follow this URL to know their various other capabilities as well.

https://insightfulreports.org/table-ufos-god-aliens-spirits

But here is the issue. According to your hypothesis, after our death, we could levitate objects, stimulate neural circuits, know thoughts of people, materialize and dematerialize objects, so and so forth. If we have these capabilities after our death, why we have failed to prove our existence to scientists when they were carrying out a proper investigation into this phenomenon? This is one of the issues.

On the other hand, if we possess these capabilities after our death, we don’t need the help of scientists to know our existence. Instead, it must be a well-established knowledge in our society. We don't see this. We know how much people care about their family members, friends and their loved ones but their existence after death in the way we believe is like an urban legend. How do you address this?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

...According to your hypothesis, after our death, we could levitate objects, stimulate neural circuits, know thoughts of people, materialize and dematerialize objects, so and so forth. If we have these capabilities after our death, why we have failed to prove our existence to scientists when they were carrying out a proper investigation into this phenomenon? This is one of the issues.

Here’s the thing - I don’t believe all experiences beyond the normal physical realm are honest.

I don’t believe that real dead people are given the right to interact and interfere with the affairs of humans, even if it’s a popular idea with Hollywood...

What I do believe is that man is appointed once to die, and after that, the judgement.

The list of phenomena you mention are indeed common to occult practice, and these are being popularised even now on Netflix:-

Where does this power come from though? I find the explanation that these phenomenon are the physical manifestation of extra-dimensional, malevolent, deceitful, hate-filled undying beings to be the most likely explanation.

The reason why I created this thread was as a heads up as to what might soon be coming, and to forewarn those who might listen...

2 Thessalonians 2
New King James Version

The Great Apostasy
2 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The coming “Great Deception”

I believe the Alien agenda may well be the means by which the Great Deception that is prophesied unfolds.

If that’s so, I wouldn’t want even my worst enemies to fall for it, never mind those I love.

 

[DanRaleigh]

Here’s the thing - I don’t believe all experiences beyond the normal physical realm are honest.

I don’t believe that real dead people are given the right to interact and interfere with the affairs of humans, even if it’s a popular idea with Hollywood...

Since you find that the first hypothesis that you brought cannot explain the data in a meaningful way, let's see if the second hypothesis that you brought can be used to explain the data. But note that since we cannot explain the data using the first hypothesis (which is these are souls of the dead), this mystery resolves to a deception by an intelligence who exhibited these capabilities:

Levitation of objects
Materialization of objects/food
Dematerialization of objects
Stimulation of auditory, visual and motor neural circuits(any other neural circuit as well) and control these circuits in real-time.
Mind reading
Capable of giving experiences that is similar to augmented reality
Capable of predicting the future
Capable of controlling hands to write, draw and paint
Capable of controlling speech production system of a human being

If the intelligence behind the phenomenon of spirits is extra-dimensional, deceitful/hate-filled intelligences, why do you think they would control hands of Luiz Gasperatto to draw/paint since the age of 13?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

If the intelligence behind the phenomenon of spirits is extra-dimensional, deceitful/hate-filled intelligences, why do you think they would control hands of Luiz Gasperatto to draw/paint?

Within the world of the occult, have you noticed that there is the concepts of “black” and “white” magic, and many more people are drawn into the idea of using their powers for good than any initial interest in evil?

I think this is where many people fundamentally misunderstand the draw of the esoteric. At its heart, it appeals to the Monomyth and it’s promise of Apotheosis.

If that sounds complicated, just think how popular Harry Potter is?

Harry Potter For Seekers - Spirituality in Harry Potter, Alchemy in Harry potter

harry potter seekers. Harry Potter For Seekers. A web site for people who would like to discover the spiritual harry potter content behind the Harry Potter stories.

www.harrypotterforseekers.com

I would venture to say that most people want to think they would be in Griffendor and less for Slytherin.Does everyone who enjoys that story go on to delve into the occult? Of course not, but perhaps the deeper meanings of the story illustrate the point.

You may have noticed the overtly satanic style of Black Metal. It’s not all that popular but when you think about what “evil music” is, you might think of a band like this...



Meanwhile, in sugar sweet tones, mainstream media pumps out luciferian music in between adverts. If you understand how asymmetric warfare works, you will see how this is a successful strategy...

2 Corinthians 11​

​

13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.​

Full circle to your question, you seem to have an issue with the idea of a deception. What is a deception other than the intelligent and often elaborate use of the culture and mindset of an individual or group to achieve an end you have in mind?

 

[DanRaleigh]

You did not explain the data in a meaningful way. There's nothing evil involved in Gasparetto's work. The intelligence that controlled his body made Gasperatto to believe that spirits exist. In his case, these are spirit painters. So he dedicated his life to paint by letting these so-called spirits to control his body. And he is not the only medium who did this. Let me take some data associated with Gasparetto's work:

i). "However, when the observer sees with his/her eyes, minute by minute, second by second what Gasparetto does in an
astonishing speed, febrile esthetical beauty, and harmony, in absolute spiritual serenity, he or she must wonder how these
paintings are produced sysematically, uninterrupted, and bearing the artistic characteristics and authentic style of masters of
the golden era of art, and how these avalanches of paintings cascade one after another without planning or thinking on the
part of Gasparetto?”

ii). “It gets more confusing and mind-bending when Gasparetto simultaneously paints two separate paintings in two different
styles, one with the right hand, and the other with the left one, always without looking at what he is painting."

iii). “Does he paint in one style? A particular style? Certainly not, because Luiz Antonio Alencastro Gasparetto since the age of
13 has been visited by 54 grand masters, to name a few, Rubens, Matisse, Degas, Gauguin, Goya, Toulouse-Lautrec,,
Michelangelo, Renoir, Van Gogh, etc”." - Is it that according to your theory, these so-called extra-dimensional , deceitful intelligences that can replicate painting styles of people have been controlling hands of Gasparetto to paint and only to paint? In some occasions, Gasperatto painted in different styles at once using both the hands and that made people believe that two intelligences controlled his hands. In other words, according to your theory, is it that two extra-dimensional beings controlled his neural circuits in real-time ?

iv). “They all come to me and help me paint. l don’t solicit them, I don’t summon them, I don't do a thing, they just come, they
enter my room and tell me to paint, just like that, nothing secret and nothing complicated about it. And I start to paint. I don’t
know what l’am painting because my eyes are closed. I cant see a thing but my spiritual guides seems to see what I am doing
and they keep on guiding me automatically without stop until I finish what l am supposed to do..." explained Gasparetto.”

v). “Gasparetto is able to work in complete darkness or in a red light that makes it virtually impossible to distinguish
one color from another. “ - His mind is not controlling hands to paint, therefore, he doesn't need light because his body was controlled by an external intelligence.

vi). “Many times I watched as he executed two paintings at a time, one with each hand. He occasionally painted with his feet
under the table and hidden from his own view, nevertheless producing paintings that were aesthetically pleasing and with the
subtlety of color, style, form, and composition of one of the deceased masters.”

Sources:

1). Early & contemporary spirit artists, psychic artists & medium painters from 5,000 B.C. to the present day. History,
Study, Analysis. Museum Ed. V2

2. THE HOLOTROPIC MIND - The Three Levels of Human Consciousness and How They Shape Our Lives by
Stanislav Grof, M.D. with Hal Zina Bennett, Ph.D.

Let me take another example. Theresa Caputo, is a long island medium. In her case, these spirits would randomly say things to her that are meaningful and then when she is doing a reading, these spirits would share factually correct information to her so she could share the information with her clients (which is what most of the mediums do throughout their whole life):
“But that day in BB&B (a retail store), I told myself I’d be okay. I thought about what my mom used to say: Your safe place is you.
And then I heard a man’s voice. “Tell my wife I like the ones on the left,” he said.

“Nobody was there. Just then, an older woman came up to me with two sets of sheets. She told me she’d just lost her husband
after forty years of marriage and was redoing the bedroom. She couldn’t decide which sheets he’d have liked better. I suggested
the ones on the left, and it made her so happy.” -

Source: There’s More to Life Than This: Healing Messages, Remarkable Stories, and Insight About the Other Side from
the Long Island Medium (p. 22) - By Caputo, Theresa.

So, according to your theory, these so-called extra-dimensional beings who know exactly what we are doing on Earth every minute/second, just pass this information to mediums when they are doing a reading, so the mediums can share with their clients/people?

 

[AmazingGrace]

You did not explain the data in a meaningful way. There's nothing evil involved in Gasparetto's work. The intelligence that controlled his body made Gasperatto to believe that spirits exist. In his case, these are spirit painters. So he dedicated his life to paint by letting these so-called spirits to control his body. And he is not the only medium who did this. Let me take some data associated with Gasparetto's work:

i). "However, when the observer sees with his/her eyes, minute by minute, second by second what Gasparetto does in an
astonishing speed, febrile esthetical beauty, and harmony, in absolute spiritual serenity, he or she must wonder how these
paintings are produced sysematically, uninterrupted, and bearing the artistic characteristics and authentic style of masters of
the golden era of art, and how these avalanches of paintings cascade one after another without planning or thinking on the
part of Gasparetto?”

ii). “It gets more confusing and mind-bending when Gasparetto simultaneously paints two separate paintings in two different
styles, one with the right hand, and the other with the left one, always without looking at what he is painting."

iii). “Does he paint in one style? A particular style? Certainly not, because Luiz Antonio Alencastro Gasparetto since the age of
13 has been visited by 54 grand masters, to name a few, Rubens, Matisse, Degas, Gauguin, Goya, Toulouse-Lautrec,,
Michelangelo, Renoir, Van Gogh, etc”." - Is it that according to your theory, these so-called extra-dimensional , deceitful intelligences that can replicate painting styles of people have been controlling hands of Gasparetto to paint and only to paint? In some occasions, Gasperatto painted in different styles at once using both the hands and that made people believe that two intelligences controlled his hands. In other words, according to your theory, is it that two extra-dimensional beings controlled his neural circuits in real-time ?

iv). “They all come to me and help me paint. l don’t solicit them, I don’t summon them, I don't do a thing, they just come, they
enter my room and tell me to paint, just like that, nothing secret and nothing complicated about it. And I start to paint. I don’t
know what l’am painting because my eyes are closed. I cant see a thing but my spiritual guides seems to see what I am doing
and they keep on guiding me automatically without stop until I finish what l am supposed to do..." explained Gasparetto.”

v). “Gasparetto is able to work in complete darkness or in a red light that makes it virtually impossible to distinguish
one color from another. “ - His mind is not controlling hands to paint, therefore, he doesn't need light because his body was controlled by an external intelligence.

vi). “Many times I watched as he executed two paintings at a time, one with each hand. He occasionally painted with his feet
under the table and hidden from his own view, nevertheless producing paintings that were aesthetically pleasing and with the
subtlety of color, style, form, and composition of one of the deceased masters.”

Sources:

1). Early & contemporary spirit artists, psychic artists & medium painters from 5,000 B.C. to the present day. History,
Study, Analysis. Museum Ed. V2

2. THE HOLOTROPIC MIND - The Three Levels of Human Consciousness and How They Shape Our Lives by
Stanislav Grof, M.D. with Hal Zina Bennett, Ph.D.

Let me take another example. Theresa Caputo, is a long island medium. In her case, these spirits would randomly say things to her that are meaningful and then when she is doing a reading, these spirits would share factually correct information to her so she could share the information with her clients (which is what most of the mediums do throughout their whole life):
“But that day in BB&B (a retail store), I told myself I’d be okay. I thought about what my mom used to say: Your safe place is you.
And then I heard a man’s voice. “Tell my wife I like the ones on the left,” he said.

“Nobody was there. Just then, an older woman came up to me with two sets of sheets. She told me she’d just lost her husband
after forty years of marriage and was redoing the bedroom. She couldn’t decide which sheets he’d have liked better. I suggested
the ones on the left, and it made her so happy.” -

Source: There’s More to Life Than This: Healing Messages, Remarkable Stories, and Insight About the Other Side from
the Long Island Medium (p. 22) - By Caputo, Theresa.

So, according to your theory, these so-called extra-dimensional beings who know exactly what we are doing on Earth every minute/second, just pass this information to mediums when they are doing a reading, so the mediums can share with their clients/people?

Devil can masqerade as an angel of light. But nothing is for free when it comes to demons (or spirits if you want). What many people don't realize, because those "good spirits" don't tell them, is that the people will have to pay for using spirit's power. Whether it is for a good thing or bad. Healing, painting, information or death curse.

Many people, some of them ex-satanists, agree on that. Sometimes after years, and sometimes even for several generations those spirits come for their payment. And it's always something the person (who used their power) doesn't want to loose. Most of the time it's life of their most beloved person, often it's first born child. The person doesn't have to put two and two together, that the death of their loved one or some other family tragedy is payment for using power of spirits. But if the person can communicate with the spirits, spirits always admit that "yes, this was your payment for my help". it's not fair? Your right. But the spirits don't care. It's fault of the person that he/she didn't know the rules.

An example from people I personally know: one family that was deep into comunication with spirits. Their first born was mentally ill, making life of family very difficult, and eventually commuted suicide. In the same family, next generation, another first born died before age 10, a rare disease. Another family - husband was healing people using power of spirits and pyramids. They didn't have children, but his wife also became mentally ill, reduced to a mind of a small child, unable to speak, and he suffered many years with her. He loved her too much to send her to psychiatric hospital, and since they didn't have children there was no one to help him to take care of her.

When you use power of demons - for whatever reason - you'll have to pay.
How was life of the two people you mentioned? Was there any tragedy in their family? Infertility, miscarriage, premature death, severe health or psychological problems? If so, you can be sure (edit) it's very possible it was their payment. And here you can see, that even if demons claim to be good, and give their powers for good things, they are vile at the core.

 

[DanRaleigh]

Devil can masqerade as an angel of light. But nothing is for free when it comes to demons (or spirits if you want). What many people don't realize, because those "good spirits" don't tell them, is that the people will have to pay for using spirit's power. Whether it is for a good thing or bad. Healing, painting, information or death curse

@AmazingGrace, Sorry, I still don't understand that logic. Let me take Chico Xavier's work as well to show that these explanations cannot be used to explain the data in a meaningful way:

Automatic Writing (Chico Xavier – Messages from Spirits)

“One of the most extensively studied automatic writing case would be Chico Xavier’s case. Brazilian born Chico Xavier wrote more than 450+ books and a couple of thousand letters by a process known as Psychography or commonly known as automatic writing, which is an alleged psychic ability allowing people to write words without conscious thinking. He has written books covering a wide range of genres and styles: novels, poetry, children’s books, short stories, letters, and essays on scientific and philosophical topics. [1]”

“Much of his writing was done at public sessions, several of which were filmed showing him at work, his left hand covering his eyes and his right hand filling sheet after sheet of paper at extraordinary speed.” [2]

“Also unexplained was the steady stream of personal messages given to those attending his public meetings, many of whom came in the hope of receiving news from their deceased loved ones. Again and again he would give precise details of their death, usually a premature one, sometimes not only giving the names of members of their family but signing off with nicknames – one young man named Milton ended his message as he used to do when alive with ‘1000 Ton’, the Portuguese word for one thousand being mil. A team of Spiritists from São Paulo managed to track down forty-five recipients of such messages, and found that not only was every single statement attributed to the deceased communicators agreed to be accurate, but that much of the information they provided had never been made”[2]

Sources:

1). http://www.academia.edu/23179581/INVESTIGATING_THE_FIT_ AND_ACCURACY_OF_ALLEGED_MEDIUMISTIC_WRITING_A_CASE_ STUDY_OF_CHICO_XAVIERS_LETTER

2). https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/chico-xavier

 

[AmazingGrace]

@AmazingGrace, Sorry, I still don't understand that logic. Let me take Chico Xavier's work as well to show that these explanations cannot be used to explain the data in a meaningful way:

Automatic Writing (Chico Xavier – Messages from Spirits)

“One of the most extensively studied automatic writing case would be Chico Xavier’s case. Brazilian born Chico Xavier wrote more than 450+ books and a couple of thousand letters by a process known as Psychography or commonly known as automatic writing, which is an alleged psychic ability allowing people to write words without conscious thinking. He has written books covering a wide range of genres and styles: novels, poetry, children’s books, short stories, letters, and essays on scientific and philosophical topics. [1]”

“Much of his writing was done at public sessions, several of which were filmed showing him at work, his left hand covering his eyes and his right hand filling sheet after sheet of paper at extraordinary speed.” [2]

“Also unexplained was the steady stream of personal messages given to those attending his public meetings, many of whom came in the hope of receiving news from their deceased loved ones. Again and again he would give precise details of their death, usually a premature one, sometimes not only giving the names of members of their family but signing off with nicknames – one young man named Milton ended his message as he used to do when alive with ‘1000 Ton’, the Portuguese word for one thousand being mil. A team of Spiritists from São Paulo managed to track down forty-five recipients of such messages, and found that not only was every single statement attributed to the deceased communicators agreed to be accurate, but that much of the information they provided had never been made”[2]

Sources:

1). http://www.academia.edu/23179581/INVESTIGATING_THE_FIT_ AND_ACCURACY_OF_ALLEGED_MEDIUMISTIC_WRITING_A_CASE_ STUDY_OF_CHICO_XAVIERS_LETTER

2). https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/chico-xavier

Maybe I should have connected my comment to your previous comment, because I was trying to answer this question you asked:
"If the intelligence behind the phenomenon of spirits is extra-dimensional, deceitful/hate-filled intelligences, why do you think they would control hands of Luiz Gasperatto to draw/paint since the age of 13?"

If I understand it correctly, you were asking why do we think the inteligences hate and deceive people if they help people do good and beautiful things. Do I understand your question correctly?

By my last comment I wanted to show you how exactly they deceive people.
Even if the demons help you paint beautiful paintings, and write beautiful letters, their final and main goal is not to do good, but to steal, hurt and kill people, because they hate us. Their goal is to make a deal with a human, in this case with Chico Xavier, and then later come for payment - the payment being often life or health of a person (e.g. Chico's child, wife, or his own life or health).

Why would demons do good things through Xavier or others? Majority of people want to do good, if demons offer ability to do good, majority of people will most likely not turn them down. Of course Xavier wanted to help other people. As soon as you agree to cooperate, the deal is made.

You are looking only at the first part of the deal between demon and human, Dan (the automatic writing or automatic painting, etc). But it seems to me you don't know about consequences that come later. Yes, tragedy can happen even if you don't dab in occult stuff, but from what I've learned so far, playing with demonic spiritual forces always have a bad ending.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]