"The muslim trinity"

[AspiringSoul]

according to who? i dont believe that, u see where this reasoning goes?

this isnt even subjective, the Gospels are literally not 'The verbatim word of God' they are accounts...secondary at that.

Besides, if me and you were to base our truth solely on the same scripture...we're still worlds apart.
see, it's like this

Jesus: i dont know the future, i cant do anything. only The Father can.
You: yeh, Jesus said he is absolutely 100% GOD IN THE FLESH
me: no, he didn't...

it isnt even subjective anymore, it's blatantly obvious you're completely lost as you're just openly contradicting Jesus.
unlike you, my interpretations of the NT do not lead to any contradiction, there are no holes in my opinion.

I understand that there's a logical truth and a mystical truth. Go way back to greek times and this was known as LOGOS TRUTH AND MYTHOS TRUTH.
Mythos truth, relates to the subjective/personal side of religion..and in this context it relates to God's Immanence.
The Immanence of God is in all things.

you don't even know what the primordial waters are..you dont know what causality relates to. You are literally bottom of the barrel when it comes to matters of religion. it makes sense that you look to David wood for clarity..

you know some of my views on the NT, crucifixion etc, so i'm not even trying to please a crowd. The Quran is the Word of God. Mohammad is part of the fulfillment of prophecy.
in the parable of Tenants, it is concluded that the VINEYARD, which is jerusalem,

Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 5 - New International Version

The Song of the Vineyard - I will sing for the one I love a song about his vineyard: My loved one had a vineyard on a fertile hillside. He dug it up and cleared it of stones and planted it with the choicest vines. He built a watchtower in it and cut out a winepress as well. Then he looked for a...

www.biblegateway.com

will go to another people who will produce its fruits.
it is a fact that islam took that role and held jerusalem longer than any other religion before it.
it is a fact that in Revelation 12 it tells us the GENTILES would trample on the outer court for 42 months, which is 1260 days.
it is a fact that muslims held jerusalem for EXACTLY 1260 lunar yrs.
it is a fact that God made certain promises to Ismael.
it is a fact that the holy spirit acts through people.
it is a fact that Jesus said he has to leave, for the comforter to come. That the comforter will 'only speak what he hears' and 'tell you what is to come' (a prophet). Jesus said the holy spirit 'lives inside you' the disciples, so if the holy spirit was already inside them, why did Jesus have to leave for the comforter to come? The holy spirit brought islam through Mohammad.
IN FACT what Jesus said in John 16, can only come true from a person. You say the holy spirit is also GOD, yet Jesus says 'he will take from me' (that is, the logos/son speaking) and 'he wont speak on his own, only what he hears'

(4) Say, the holy spirit has brought the revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims.
(سورة النحل, An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #102)

Whoever satirises the Apostle from amongst you, or praises him and helps it is all the same, And Gabriel, the Apostle of Allah is among us, and the holy spirit who has no match. (Book #031, Hadith #6081)

it is a fact that isaiah 42 talks of the settlements of KEDAR (an ishmaelite tribe) shall rejoice. Kedar is the ancestor of the Quraysh tribe and hence prophet Mohammad.
it is a fact that islam fulfilled the 'new song prophecy' in Isaiah 42.

this isnt even subjective...i mean quite literally this stuff has been fulfilled.

Sing to the Lord a new song,
his praise from the ends of the earth,
you who go down to the sea, and all that is in it,
you islands, and all who live in them.
11 Let the wilderness and its towns raise their voices;
let the settlements where Kedar lives rejoice.
Let the people of Sela sing for joy;
let them shout from the mountaintops.
12 Let them give glory to the Lord
and proclaim his praise in the islands.
13 The Lord will march out like a champion,
like a warrior he will stir up his zeal;
with a shout he will raise the battle cry
and will triumph over his enemies.
14 “For a long time I have kept silent,
I have been quiet and held myself back.
But now, like a woman in childbirth,
I cry out, I gasp and pant.
15 I will lay waste the mountains and hills
and dry up all their vegetation;
I will turn rivers into islands
and dry up the pools.
16 I will lead the blind by ways they have not known,
along unfamiliar paths I will guide them;
I will turn the darkness into light before them
and make the rough places smooth.
These are the things I will do;
I will not forsake them.
17 But those who trust in idols,
who say to images, ‘You are our gods,’
will be turned back in utter shame.


this is all literally fulfilled through islam.
this never happened through christianity. Christians always talk about how 'timid and loving' they are..whilst they insist islam is 'violent' yet read what God says

13 The Lord will march out like a champion,
like a warrior he will stir up his zeal;
with a shout he will raise the battle cry
and will triumph over his enemies.
14 “For a long time I have kept silent,


The wilderness, the desert of Paran is Mecca.

Let the people of Sela sing for joy;
let them shout from the mountaintops.

Sela is literally a mountain of Madina

Sela (Saudi Arabia) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

yes im aware the location of Sela is disputed from the judeo-christian side...but you people also didnt even know where the real mt sinai was until ron wyatt openly gave you proof (hint its in N.W.saudi arabia). the whole 40 yrs in the wilderness..you people believed it was someplace else.
likewise in the Torah, places like Kadesh/Kadesh barnea are not properly located.
Muslims are the only ones who are constantly consistent with their claims. from even before Mohammad, the location of the real mt Sinai was known, esp to the jews living in arabia at the time.
it is only in recent times that the judeo-christian world altered the real geography and history of biblical places.

Xtians are so messed up they've even claimed that the real Mecca was petra..they've even blagged it about how 'the original qibla was petra'.

so for all these years the same dumb xtians on this forum have been posting dodgy material inc from idiots like david wood, claiming 'petra is the real mecca'
and then this happens

Israel mosque find: Archaeologists unearth 1,200-year-old ruins in desert

Researchers say the mosque, dating from the 7th or 8th century, would be a rare find anywhere.

www.bbc.co.uk

NO APOLOGY FROM YOU FAKE CHRISTIANS..no backtracking, not even acknowledging you were wrong. All those dodgy videos and websites, trying to debate muslims...only for ISRAELIS to prove you wrong.

you guys are an embarrassment to religion.

 

[seekinheart]

But that is literally what the argument is over. The Qur'an as it defines it, does not speak of the Gospel as biographies, but the revelation and teachings of the historical Jesus.
Your books corroborate on this.



Good, you're starting to get somewhere at snail pace.



They're not "Gospels", they're biographies - and liturgical (hence written with theological undertones) in their practical use in the period they were written.
The only "Gospel" (both as referred to by your books and by the Qur'an) is that 'Gospel' that these books themselves speak about Jesus having taught.



The Qur'an confirms that Jesus was a prophet who was given revelation, the teaching referred to by the Qur'an as "The Gospel" (singular). As already shown in this post: https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/the-muslim-trinity.7534/post-301827

And as notably clarified in Surah 5:46:
"And We sent after them in their footsteps Jesus, son of Mary, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel) in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil)."

and yet u dont actually know what u believe about Jesus because u only choose to believe what co-incides with the belief of the Qu'Ran, re-write history much? the miracle of reinterpretation, done with this now, u have shown urself for what u are.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Christians: islam was so violent and brutal.
God/Isaiah 42: IM GOING TO RAISE THE BATTLE CRY, IM GOING TO VIOLENTLY REMOVE IDOLATRY
Christians: that's not islam that's christianity. christianity did that.

christians, just making it up as they go along.

 

[TokiEl]

Jesus: i don't know when the last hour is, only God knows.
You: YOU DONT KNOW THE FUTURE, SO YOU MUST BE GOD.

Jesus: i can't do anything on my own, it is the Father doing it through me.
You: YOU CANT DO ANYTHING, THEREFORE YOU MUST BE GOD.

Jesus: Also the son gives life to who he wishes.
You: YOU CAN'T DO NOTHING WITHOUT THE FATHER AND THEREFORE YOU ARE NOT GOD.

Jesus: The father has assigned all judgement to the son.
You: YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN AN ASSIGNMENT FROM THE FATHER AND SO YOU ARE NOT GOD.

Jesus: All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
You: YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN IT FROM THE FATHER AND THEREFORE YOU CAN'T BE GOD.


Jesus: Look i am the one who will judge you.
You : YOU ARE NOT GOD.

Jesus: You are making it very easy for me.
You : YOU ARE NOT ...AHHHHHH

 

[Infinityloop]

and yet u dont actually know what u believe about Jesus because u only choose to believe what co-incides with the belief of the Qu'Ran

I believe what God says about Jesus.

re-write history much?

Considering that our common enemy are Jesus-mythists, you should count yourself lucky there. Your sources aren't revelations, they are later claimed historical accounts. As history, nobody who isn't a Christian themselves will take it as a serious source of history. Some people will take hints at the political state of the middle east at the time as accurate, other may differ. But from the historical POV alone, there is no clear cut evidence for secular scholarship to affirm your sources.
It is universally agreed upon that the Epistles chronologically predate Matt/Mark/Luke/John anyway, so that alone gives mythists a lot to work with for their theories of interpreting Jesus as mere myth. Take it or leave it.

On the basis of your books alone though, no I wouldn't believe in Jesus if there wasn't an actual revelation from God affirming it. The early Christian period is incredibly dubious and questionable on all fronts, the sheer amount of sects all competing for the prize in the second century alone is a marvel to behold.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Jesus: Also the son gives life to who he wishes.
You: YOU CAN'T DO NOTHING WITHOUT THE FATHER AND THEREFORE YOU ARE NOT GOD.

Jesus: The father has assigned all judgement to the son.
You: YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN AN ASSIGNMENT FROM THE FATHER AND SO YOU ARE NOT GOD.

Jesus: All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
You: YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN IT FROM THE FATHER AND THEREFORE YOU CAN'T BE GOD.


Jesus: Look i am the one who will judge you.
You : YOU ARE NOT GOD.

Jesus: You are making it very easy for me.
You : YOU ARE NOT ...AHHHHHH

oh yes
this is the guy who thinks the Mt of Congregation is in Jerusalem, despite everyone and their pet dog knowing otherwise.
This is the guy who reads where it says 'king of babylon' and thinks 'must be Allah'.



Jesus said he can only do what the Father allows him to do.
The father has assigned all judgement to the son.
that literally means he is secondary and not the cause.
why don't you just worship nature then? or worship your mother?
the whole point of Abraham monotheism is to worship THE source.

furthermore, you dont even know my understanding.
God is Immanent in all things ie the Act of God is apparent...

As Jesus had removed the veil of his ego (the killing of the serpent), only the act of God remained in him. as such, God was in him and his actions and speech, was God.
YET i dont go thinking Jesus is God on his own.
It is, as Jesus said it is...'the Son can do NOTHING on his own'
he was a prism for God's light...

 

[TokiEl]

oh yes
this is the guy who thinks the Mt of Congregation is in Jerusalem, despite everyone and their pet dog knowing otherwise.
This is the guy who reads where it says 'king of babylon' and thinks 'must be Allah'.

This is the shepherde telling the sheeple that YHWH have outed Allah as Satan.

Jesus said he can only do what the Father allows him to do.
The father has assigned all judgement to the son.
that literally means he is secondary and not the cause.

So Jesus will decide your eternal destination...

 

[manama]

We see that the Qur'an states that the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospel were all given by God. With this, we Christians heartily agree. But, the Muslims claim that the Bible is corrupted and full of contradictions. If that is so, then it would seem they do not believe the Qur'an since the Qur'an says that the Word of God cannot be altered:

Quran says Gospel not Bible. Quran also says God gave the books and then people did the changes. Those aren't contradictions, that makes absolute sense.

 

[Infinityloop]

So Jesus will decide your eternal destination...

Actually according to your books, he is an intercessor (like the other prophets):

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. (Romans 8:34)

 

[manama]

Christians should stop calling themselves Christian if you care about David Wood who literally uses your religion for clout and money more than Jesus.

 

[TokiEl]

Actually according to your books, he is an intercessor (like the other prophets):

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. (Romans 8:34)

John 5 22Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son.

 

[AspiringSoul]

This is the shepherde telling the sheeple that YHWH have outed Allah as Satan.




So Jesus will decide your eternal destination...

the shepherd: the mountain of baal worship, is actually the temple mount. So whoever takes jerusalem, in accordance with the parable of tenants, is actually the DEVIL.
satan: lol im going to rest, let this guy do my job.
the shepherd: yes and Allah, aka Elah, the one Jesus prayed to in aramaic,...is satan too.

as for Jesus deciding my eternal destination, worry about yourself and your pathetic opinions first.

 

[Infinityloop]

John 5 22Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son.

It occurs throughout the Bible, it's not exclusive to Jesus: https://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/intercession.html

 

[AspiringSoul]

John 5 22Furthermore, the Father judges no one, but has assigned all judgment to the Son.

19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

Jesus as judge, is in the position of King..but he is still a vicegerent of God.

hardcore level polythiesm from xtians again.

 

[TokiEl]

the shepherd: the mountain of baal worship, is actually the temple mount. So whoever takes jerusalem, in accordance with the parable of tenants, is actually the DEVIL.
satan: lol im going to rest, let this guy do my job.
the shepherd: yes and Allah, aka Elah, the one Jesus prayed to in aramaic,...is satan too.

as for Jesus deciding my eternal destination, worry about yourself and your pathetic opinions first.

I like my chances.

 

[TokiEl]

It occurs throughout the Bible, it's not exclusive to Jesus: https://www.biblestudytools.com/encyclopedias/isbe/intercession.html

Its's high time for you to repent.

 

[TokiEl]

19 Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, and he will show him even greater works than these, so that you will be amazed. 21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

Jesus as judge, is in the position of King..but he is still a vicegerent of God.

hardcore level polythiesm from xtians again.

Repent or perish.

 

[Kung Fu]

if the Bible disproves Christians why does the Qu'Ran endorse it...makes 0 sense.

You keep saying this but yet you can never show me where in the Quran it endorses it. I'll ask again since you make claims and then run like a coward when confronted. Where in the Quran does it endorse the NT?

Just answer the question why are you so afraid?

 

[Kung Fu]

Seekinheart returning to his roots. Does this mean you'll go on a hiatus and then come back and say Islam is calling out to you?

So in this thread you made claims but not supported it once with any kind of scripture from the Quran or answer any of our questions. All because you don't want to debate with Muslims. We call that running away because said person is either too stupid or is running away from the truth

Another funny thing I noticed. The name of this thread talks about an Islamic Trinity but you haven't posted even one verse which supports it lol.

 

[TokiEl]

Seekinheart returning to his roots. Does this mean you'll go on a hiatus and then come back and say Islam is calling out to you?

So in this thread you made claims but not supported it once with any kind of scripture from the Quran or answer any of our questions. All because you don't want to debate with Muslims. We call that running away because said person is either too stupid or is running away from the truth

You as well Kung Twat Fu... repent and get over it.