Prophetic Expectations

[Haich]

Where's the very interesting short video?



Edit: Sorry, must be something wrong with my browser. Lol.

Sorry I'll post it again aha !

 

[Haich]

Do many Muslims take the view that a certain portion of the church will align itself with Islam at a future point?

Yup mostly definitely

We believe that when Jesus comes back and defeats the anti christ, he will clarify he is not God and many Christians will follow Jesus the right way

 

[Haich]

@God_Is_Formless

Hope it works for you !

 

[grateful servant]

Anyone interested in Islamic Eschatology would benefit from this series:

The End Times Series (How the World Ends)

 

[God_Is_Formless]

Sorry I'll post it again aha !

Aww, thank you, i apologize sorry it was really my bad.

Your post was not faulty. Apparently i only had to refresh my browser. Alhamdulillah, you're a pearl. Jazaakumullah Khayr. Aameen.

 

[grateful servant]

Now this is what I'd like to highlight, the video explains how there will be an army from Syria, flying under the guise of Islam but they have, 'erred'. In other words, they've transgressed and misused the Quran for their own gains. This army will attempt to kill the Mahdi and a war breaks out...could this army be ISIS?

I rather think it will be an army from the actual leaders in the Middle East... Jordan perhaps. None of the current leaders will want to give up the seat to the righteous Mahdi.
EDIT: In the hadith, Rasool says that the army will come from his Ummah - and ISIS is no way, no how from the Ummah of Prophet Muhammad. Also, if it is a legtimate army under a current Arabian leader that gets swallowed on the way to fight Mahdi - that would open the way for the other factions to attack him.

Allah knows best.

 

[Haich]

I rather think it will be an army from the actual leaders in the Middle East... Jordan perhaps. None of the current leaders will want to give up the seat to the righteous Mahdi.
EDIT: In the hadith, Rasool says that the army will come from his Ummah - and ISIS is no way, no how from the Ummah of Prophet Muhammad. Also, if it is a legtimate army under a current Arabian leader that gets swallowed on the way to fight Mahdi - that would open the way for the other factions to attack him.

Allah knows best.

The army that attacks the Mahdi or attempts to attack aren't true followers of The prophet pbuh whereas the army that follow him will be true followers

There's definitely an army that attack the Mahdi i don't believe they're true believers, probably somewhat similar to ISIS with regards to hijacking the religion for their own personal agendas

 

[Haich]

many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Pretty much agree with that, war, false messiahs, famines...there's nothing which hasn't happened in that list

 

[Haich]

@Haich would I be right in saying that both Islam and Christianity identify various events that occur in the run up to the end times - I noticed you mentioned 'Minor signs' - in the Bible these indications are termed 'The beginning of sorrows' or 'birth pangs'

I think on some issues there may be parallels, on others there will be the potential for those of certain other faiths or nations to be 'The bad guys' - please don't wrap it up, I hope you give it straight, as I know you would like to give it straight in return. I hope we can use this to air prophetic narratives clearly, even if they can't both agree?

It might also be worth considering with each topic if that were one that believers in a particular faith could engineer as against ones that would require powers beyond us, of either good or evil to bring about.

As some people may be ignorant of the views of other faiths it might be worth painting the 'Big Picture' first before getting stuck into the small details, even though these may be important, and even happen on the news (in which case we might have to go straight to the detail then widen out to the bigger context).

Does that sound worth doing?

From the excerpt you posted, Jesus' foretelling of the sorrows is in line if not identical to what Muslims believe. However is there anywhere in the bible where it's explicity stated that certain events or people will come before the end of time?

 

[Haich]

MINOR SIGNS
Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah Most High be upon him) prophesied of the Last Age that:

• “People would follow a way of life other than mine**,and give guidance other than mine”…“I fear for my people only the leaders who lead men astray”…

** by other than mine I believe the reference is leading a godly life like Mohammed did. He was concerned people would lead his ummah (followers) astray and try to tempt them with worldly gains


- ''Before the Last Hour there will be great liars, so beware of them”…Political leaders perhaps?


-“When the most wicked member of a tribe becomes its ruler, and the most worthless member of a community becomes its leader, and a man is respected through fear of the evil he may do, and leadership is given to people who are unworthy of it, expect the Last Hour”.
All of these warnings have already been dramatically and ominously fulfilled. Around the world today, with but few exceptions...

• “Women would dress like men and men will dress like women'
When I was younger I remember my mosque teacher telling me this sign referenced girls who wore trousers. I believed her for a long time until I started seeing cross dressing men, transgender women, transsexuals. This new phenomenon is unnatural and we believe it is a sign of the end of times, blurring the lines between man and woman


- '' Women would be dressed and yet be naked”,
Modesty has disappeared and people think it's ok to go out in short shorts and crop tops where your breasts are hanging like udders. Decorum and attire go hand in hand

• ''Homosexuality (and lesbianism) would become common''
Well it's controversial in modern society but ultimately God condemns the act of homosexuality. It's important to distinguish people and their sins, it's now widely accepted and although people are free to do what they want, this was again deemed a minor sign of the end of times. The further we stray from God the more we normalise what was once not the norm

• ''Children born outside of marriage would become common''
In fact marriage itself now seems destined to become obsolete; the family unit is now broken and many people are born out of wedlock. There are many social consequences to this and individual, children need stability and solid foundations.

• 'Fornication and adultery would become common''
Again, speaks for itself. Virginity and marital fidelity are becoming old-fashioned; this is all in an effort to avoid having children outside of marriage. Also people have forgotten what it means to be loyal and commit to your spouse, everyone's on tinder lol

• ''Disproportion in balance of men and women to such an extent that “one man would have to maintain (not marry) fifty women”,
So in terms of population, women will over take the men to such an extent that women will find it hard to find partners. That is yet to occur but could explain why God permitted polygamy...although I'd probably stay single lol

• 'Excessive consumption of alcoholic beverages''

- ' True knowledge will disappear”,


• “Time would move swiftly—a year passing like a month—a month like a week—a week like a day”
This is actually already occurring, time is seriously flying by

- High numbers of random killings, murder and violence, so much so that “a killer would not know why he is killing and the one who is killed would not know why he is being killed”, and “every age is followed by one which would be worse”—already around the world senseless random killing has arrived and is constantly escalating;

• “Nothing would remain of Islam but the name, and nothing would remain of the Qur’an but the traces (of its writing) (i.e., the Qur’an would not be studied, no one would follow its guidance, it would be recited mechanically etc.); the Masajid (mosques) would be grand structures but would be devoid of guidance;

For instance Zakat (charity deducted yearly from your wages) is no longer collected and distributed by most Muslim countries if not all, money itself is now corrupted, we seek it and sacrifice our morals for riches... Riba (interest e.g. Loans with interest or mortgages) is universally prevalent, Interest is forbidden in Islam and is yet practiced globally.

• Universal consumption of Riba (i.e, money lent on interest, and transactions which ‘rip off’ people through deception in business, etc.) Around the world today Riba in modern banking and insurance, as well as in the monetary system, has already taken total control over the market and over economic life.

• “Naked barefooted shepherds would vie with one another in the construction of high-rise buildings”.
Dubai comes to mind, once a poor country relying on African donations, it now boasts the tallest building in the world. Wealth is wasted in grandiose and expensive public relations construction projects commissioned by people who hanker for visible symbols of status in a modern world which recognizes the rich as a ‘somebody’ and the poor as a ‘nobody’

There are more, these are the main ones I could find, anything I got wrong or forgot fellow Muslims help me out yo!

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Haich

I would have replied but my daughter had to go to A&E with a suspected broken finger!!! Actually OK, but 6 hours lost! I will try to do as clear a job at outlining the prophetic events we see on the horizon in the next 24hrs or so - thanks for taking the time to present your perspective. I will take a look in more detail later...

 

[Haich]

@Haich

I would have replied but my daughter had to go to A&E with a suspected broken finger!!! Actually OK, but 6 hours lost! I will try to do as clear a job at outlining the prophetic events we see on the horizon in the next 24hrs or so - thanks for taking the time to present your perspective. I will take a look in more detail later...

Oh goodness, I do pray she is ok!

No worries take your time

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@Scott Christopher Shuman

In answer to your point, I think it is wise when considering Bible prophecies, many of which were given under the Old Covenant to use the standard of proof set out by God. Whilst the punishment by death for prophetic falsehood applied to Israel, the standard of truth remains. False prophets have always been around and the standard was given us to enable us to recognise them.

I didn't want to get too diverted on the thread as I want to get over to the wider readership the Christian prophetic perspective without it just turning into another line of debate.

I may completely disagree with some of the islamic prophecies - otherwise I would be a Muslim! (but in the interests of true enquiry I should be aware of them).

As these things have yet to happen fully, it is wise to be aware of the perspectives of others even from competing world views.

In order for others to listen to us, we need to have given people the chance to be heard, respected and understood.

Among Christians even there are different perspectives on prophecy ;-)

You are more than welcome to outline your own prophetic horizons and interpretations on the thread, but I won't be spending too much time getting bogged down either defending mine or shooting down yours (see the OP)

God Bless

 

[God_Is_Formless]

help me out yo!

Hey yo!

You already said too much I guess you should have gone over them one by one. Perhaps we could have been more specific then?

 

[God_Is_Formless]

Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah Most High be upon him) prophesied of the Last Age that:

• “People would follow a way of life other than mine**,and give guidance other than mine”…“I fear for my people only the leaders who lead men astray”…

** by other than mine I believe the reference is leading a godly life like Mohammed did. He was concerned people would lead his ummah (followers) astray and try to tempt them with worldly gains

The leaders of today are very much accountable indeed in my opinion. I think it's more about those leaders in charge of most of our temples/Masaajids?

I agree with the second point. If you're not going to follow a way of life where you're God-Conscious, you're gonna be quite the materialist.

And God Almighty Knows Best.

Edit: @Red Sky at Morning I'm glad you do but i was feeling guilty since she asked us Muslims to help her out here. Lol.

It's OK - I have a high reading age ;-)

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Hey yo!

You already said too much I guess you should have gone over them one by one. Perhaps we could have been more specific then?

It's OK - I have a high reading age ;-)

 

[Haich]

Hey yo!

You already said too much I guess you should have gone over them one by one. Perhaps we could have been more specific then?

You're right ahah I just thought maybe list the main ones and we could discuss each one individually

 

[Haich]

It's OK - I have a high reading age ;-)

Hope your daughter is doing well Red

 

[Haich]

The leaders of today are very much accountable indeed in my opinion. I think it's more about those leaders in charge of most of our temples/Masaajids?

I agree with the second point. If you're not going to follow a way of life where you're God-Conscious, you're gonna be quite the materialist.

And God Almighty Knows Best.

Edit: @Red Sky at Morning I'm glad you do but i was feeling guilty since she asked us Muslims to help her out here. Lol.

Possibly, many mosque leaders are neglectful of the duty they have over people. The genuine ones who want people to do good and are forbidding evil, condemning terrorism, condemning extremism and warning people of the dangers of being lead astray, are usually silenced or imprisoned

Many scholars in countries like KSA are silenced or imprisoned for not going against the monarchy and political regime, but simply just commenting on it.

It's like you can't even say anything about your leader without fear of persecution. This could be in line with this particular minor sign but the minor signs do also ripple through the west, where our leaders are constantly lying to us...

 

[God_Is_Formless]

It was predicted though so i guess it's meant to be that way.

What else can you do about it other than your best?

Up till now, pretty much of all the minor signs have already appeared...