Perfect Preservation of the Quran

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I am satisfied by God when He says that the He will preserve His book (Q 15:9). That's enough for me as a Muslim.

However, I see that for someone who isn't Muslim, what is written in the Quran is not enough, because they do not believe it is God's word in the first place. Saying that the validity of Islam is not affected by the Quran couldn't be further from the truth. Its like saying that Judaism/Christianity remain unchanged in the absence of the Old and New Testament. In many ways, religions are their books.
If you would be familiar with my body of work, you would understand what I meant. I have vigorously criticized the Bible during my presence on VC, all the way back to 2011. The fact that the Bible has not been perfectly preserved, something I have no problem admitting, does not make me throw away the scriptures or the Christian faith. In fact, I became a Christian in spite of realizing the scripture was imperfect, because I recognized an overall meaning that remained coherent all the way through, regardless of scriptural inconsistencies.

Acknowledging the basic fact that scripture has fallen victim to the imperfect hands of men is liberating. It's a strength. Clinging on to the demonstrably incorrect belief that scripture is immune to such corruption, is a weakness.
 






pescatarian09

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If you would be familiar with my body of work, you would understand what I meant. I have vigorously criticized the Bible during my presence on VC, all the way back to 2011. The fact that the Bible has not been perfectly preserved, something I have no problem admitting, does not make me throw away the scriptures or the Christian faith. In fact, I became a Christian in spite of realizing the scripture was imperfect, because I recognized an overall meaning that remained coherent all the way through, regardless of scriptural inconsistencies.

Acknowledging the basic fact that scripture has fallen victim to the imperfect hands of men is liberating. It's a strength. Clinging on to the demonstrably incorrect belief that scripture is immune to such corruption, is a weakness.
I respectfully disagree.
 






Resistor

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Acknowledging the basic fact that scripture has fallen victim to the imperfect hands of men is liberating. It's a strength. Clinging on to the demonstrably incorrect belief that scripture is immune to such corruption, is a weakness.
You are still asking them to agree with you over a misrepresentation of their claims, which is just dishonest on your part.
 






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I respectfully disagree.
That's fair. But at the least take this as cautionary advice. Next to the theological controversies Christianity has been subjected to for centuries, for more than 150 years, the Bible has been subjected to academic scrutiny. For the Quran and Islam, this exposition to academic scrutiny has only just begun. Given the popularity of religious polemics on the internet, Islam is facing rough times ahead.
 






pescatarian09

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That's fair. But at the least take this as cautionary advice. Next to the theological controversies Christianity has been subjected to for centuries, for more than 150 years, the Bible has been subjected to academic scrutiny. For the Quran and Islam, this exposition to academic scrutiny has only just begun. Given the popularity of religious polemics on the internet, Islam is facing rough times ahead.
Its like swatting flies. Their arguments are empty, and fall apart when subjected to criticism.
 






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For the Quran and Islam, this exposition to academic scrutiny has only just begun.
But really if you know anything of the history of orientalist scholarship, all you and such people are doing is repeating the same tired Orientalist strawmen as if they have discovered something new and revolutionary.
 






pescatarian09

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That's fair. But at the least take this as cautionary advice. Next to the theological controversies Christianity has been subjected to for centuries, for more than 150 years, the Bible has been subjected to academic scrutiny. For the Quran and Islam, this exposition to academic scrutiny has only just begun. Given the popularity of religious polemics on the internet, Islam is facing rough times ahead.
Islam has been subject to Christian scrutiny since the Crusades, and even before that.
 






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But really if you know anything of the history of orientalist scholarship, all you and such people are doing is repeating the same tired Orientalist strawmen as if they have discovered something new and revolutionary.
Moving the goal posts is the new strategy of many muslims, but some Islamic scholars are admitting themselves that there are new questions coming from the academic world that traditional Islamic apologetics doesn't have answers to.
 






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What is their claim and what is my representation of their claim?
The Qur'an is perfectly preserved, through oral tradition (taught by Muhammad himself and which are widely recorded), supplemented by lots of manuscript evidence that is not itself considered representative (as scribal errors are known and unanimously recognized by Muslims) but supplemental to the reality of the claim which tackles multiple aspects at once.

You are moving the goalposts to make it being about that because some manuscript has a scribal error that the Qur'an is suddenly changed, even that many other manuscripts will obviously not have that mistake. You are not critical and you are agenda driven.
 






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Islam has been subject to Christian scrutiny since the Crusades, and even before that.
Correct, and propaganda since that period too (where Catholics started getting very scared of the apparent competition). Many such myths are becoming regurgitated by modern Evangelical again which is just plain ignorant.
 






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Moving the goal posts is the new strategy of many muslims, but some Islamic scholars are admitting themselves that there are new questions coming from the academic world that traditional Islamic apologetics doesn't have answers to.
Yasir Qadhi is just one guy, but his comments were taken out of contexts by Christian apologists which is just what Christians do. Nothing new and revolutionary is reached here, it's something Muslims have been saying since the 7th century.
 






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Yasir Qadhi is just one guy, but his comments were taken out of contexts by Christian apologists which is just what Christians do. Nothing new and revolutionary is reached here, it's something Muslims have been saying since the 7th century.
So you have the answers that even Ibn al-Jazari, according to Qadhi, didn't have?
 






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