Paganism and Easter

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The wise men (nowhere does it say there were 3 men, just that the men brought 3 gifts) did not show up close to the time Jesus was born.
So shepherds did. Sometimes people confuse the two groups of visitors.

The wise men refer to him as a "child" not a "babe". He was living in a "house" not a manger.

Luke 2 (Jesus' birth and the arrival of the shepherds)

7And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. 12And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger


Matt 2 (the arrival of the wise men)

7Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, inquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. 8And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also. 9When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was. 10When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. 11And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. 12And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way.


Some think the "star" refers to an angel. How else does a star stand right over a house?

Cross reference:
Rev1
20The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
 

phipps

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Sounds like you've been over-complicating the bible mate, Jesus said the same thing to people-
"You diligently study the Scriptures because you think that by them you possess eternal life. These are the Scriptures that testify about me, yet you refuse to come to me to have life." (John 5:39/40)
And Paul said it in a nutshell - "I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)
So my explanation of how my beliefs are not those of the Jehovah witnesses just because they too teach that Halloween is not Christian, has lead you to judge that because I believe in those things means I've been over complicating the Bible? But they are written of in the Bible so we know about them.

I don't understand how you would think that saying obeying God's commandments and knowing about what Jesus does in the heavenly sanctuary as our High Priest for example, over complicates things? Doesn't Jesus say we should be obedient just as He was? Isn't the heavenly sanctuary written of so we understand what Jesus is doing for us in the heavenly sanctuary and how its relevant to our salvation?

And I do know that studying the scriptures does not lead to eternal life. The verses you quoted say, "These are the Scriptures that testify about me." Reading the scriptures leads us to get to know, submit and have a closer relationship with Jesus. He is the only means of Salvation. The Bible is God's communication to us. The Bible is Jesus since He is the Word (John 1:1-4, 14). Jesus said, “Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth” (John 17:17).

The simplicity of Christ is doing what Christ has asked of us in His Word and to rely on Him completely. If we stray away from that by celebrating pagan festivals for example, that is when we stray away from the simplicity of Christ. This is supported in 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 from which you quoted verse 3. Paul says in verses 1-4, "Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly—and indeed you do bear with me. For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!"
 
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Flarepath

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So my explanation of how my beliefs are not those of the Jehovah witnesses just because they too teach that Halloween is not Christian, has lead you to judge that because I believe in those things means I've been over complicating the Bible?...
Mate, you can quote all the tangled furball of verses you want to in alleged support of your theories, but the fact remains that you and the JW's don't celebrate Jesus's birth at Christmas and his resurrection at Easter, so that makes you all prime candidates for that great naughty step in the sky..;)
 

phipps

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Mate, you can quote all the tangled furball of verses you want to in alleged support of your theories, but the fact remains that you and the JW's don't celebrate Jesus's birth at Christmas and his resurrection at Easter, so that makes you all prime candidates for that great naughty step in the sky..;)
Having shared beliefs with Jehovah witnesses does NOT make me one okay! I share beliefs with most Christians including you but that does not mean I have the same 100% beliefs with you or most Christians. So stop with this nonsense already.

And they are right about Christmas, Easter and Halloween etc. because they are NOT Christian holidays, they are pagan and have been for thousands of years before Jesus was born and before He died on the cross for our sins.

Naughty step lol? Are we kids? There is no clear biblical reason for observing Christmas, Easter Halloween and so forth as religious festivals. We've not been asked to celebrate them in the Bible which is God's message to us. The Early Christians did not celebrate any of those days until Catholicism introduced them into Christendom. This truth won't change whether you agree with it or not, mate!
 
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Flarepath

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Having shared beliefs with Jehovah witnesses does NOT make me one okay!...

Good for you mate, they're totally off their rockers..:)
An elderly JW big shot once posted about me- "He's ignorant, a fable-spinner, talks drivel, a deceiver, racist, self-deluded"
I think I must have upset him because he'd admitted he joined them as a young man then left, but went back to them later and married a JW girl, so I said "I bet you only went back so you could whip off her knickers"..:)

rel-JW-beliefsB.jpg
 

A Freeman

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Mate, you can quote all the tangled furball of verses you want to in alleged support of your theories, but the fact remains that you and the JW's don't celebrate Jesus's birth at Christmas and his resurrection at Easter, so that makes you all prime candidates for that great naughty step in the sky..;)
Perhaps you would be so kind as to enlighten us with even one verse in the Bible that supports the notion that Jesus was born in the dead of winter, or that we are supposed to celebrate that specific day or even celebrate Jesus' birthday at all?

This is a "put your money where your mouth is" moment, so please don't dodge this simple question.
 

Flarepath

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..Perhaps you would be so kind as to enlighten us with even one verse in the Bible that supports the notion that Jesus was born in the dead of winter, or that we are supposed to celebrate that specific day or even celebrate Jesus' birthday at all?..
Everybody KNOWS the bible didn't set a specific date for Christmas, so early Christians got together and selected a random date in which to celebrate his birth on the grounds of "Better to have a date for celebration instead of none at all."
As a result, Christmas became the great celebration that we know today..:)
How about it Captain?
"Make it so"
rel-Star_Trek_generations_zpsc5bc495d.jpg


And if pagan links happened to be underlying Dec 25th, Christianity with all its might and power overwhelmed and wiped them out, just as the Enterprises phaser banks wiped out this idol of the heathen 'god' Vaal..:)

ST-Vaal.jpg
 

A Freeman

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Everybody KNOWS the bible didn't set a specific date for Christmas, so early Christians got together and selected a random date in which to celebrate his birth on the grounds of "Better to have a date for celebration instead of none at all."
As a result, Christmas became the great celebration that we know today..:)
How about it Captain?
"Make it so"



And if pagan links happened to be underlying Dec 25th, Christianity with all its might and power overwhelmed and wiped them out, just as the Enterprises phaser banks wiped out this idol of the heathen 'god' Vaal..:)
Matthew 15:3-9
15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the COMMANDment of God by your Tradition?
15:4 For God Commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
15:5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to [his] father or [his] mother, [It is] a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. Thus have ye made the Commandment of God of none effect by your Tradition.
15:7 [Ye] hypocrites, well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying,
15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is FAR from me.
15:9 But in vain they do worship Me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men (man-made rules, doctrines, traditions, etc.).
 

A Freeman

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If some people object to celebrating Jesus's birth on Dec 25th they can always choose a different day..:)
Why should anyone celebrate the birth of the human body that the immortal Son of God (Christ) incarnated? Where did God or His Christ tell us to do such things?

That is the entire point of sharing with you and others that we get so wrapped up in the traditions of men that we place those traditions above God and His Commandments, which goes directly against the teachings of Christ (Who specifically said He absolutely hates the celebration we call "Christ-mass").
 

A Freeman

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Huh? Where did Jesus say "don't do Christmas"?
Is Christmas from God or is it a tradition of/from men? You've already admitted it isn't found anywhere in the Bible. This is what Christ specifically said about Christmas, which has absolutely NOTHING to do with Jesus' birthday.

Revelation 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes (followers of Santa [Ni]-Claus - Yuletide, Easter [Ishtar - a goddess of fertility - eggs a symbol of fertility] etc.), WHICH I ALSO HATE.

Revelation 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans [followers of St. [Ni]-Claus (Yuletide)], WHICH THING I HATE.

SANTA is an obvious anagram for SATAN.

Do you really believe that God is allegedly the author of confusion (
1 Cor. 14:33), i.e. that He would allow the Lamb of God to be born on the exact same day that pagans celebrate Satan, the birthday of Nimrod and the most overtly materialistic event of the year?
 
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Some modern apologists that compromise with the world try to lie that it's plausible that Jesus could have been born in winter, but these verses would indicate otherwise

Matt 24

20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day


2Tim 4
21Do thy diligence to come before winter.

If the climate in Israel or the mediterranean is so mild, as these apologists claim, that the shepherds could have had their sheep grazing in winter, then why would the Bible indicate that the winter is so harsh that travel is not advisable?
 

Flarepath

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Is Christmas from God or is it a tradition of/from men? You've already admitted it isn't found anywhere in the Bible..
On the other hand, where does it say in the bible NOT to celebrate the birth of Jesus and his resurrection?.. :p
 
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early Christians got together and selected a random date in which to celebrate his birth
Problem is it wasn't random...

And if pagan links happened to be underlying Dec 25th, Christianity with all its might and power overwhelmed and wiped them out,
Or rather, they bowed down to the pagans in exchage for worldly power, which is temporal.

Catholics only cared about getting their numbers up on paper. (That's me giving them the benefit of the doubt - at some point they began to worship ishtar, by renaming her Mary, but was it from the very beginning, i wouldn't know).

That's why they do unscriptural infant baptism. Babies can't believe.
That's also why they won't allow people to renounce their catholicism. Once you're on their list theyll count you as a member forever.
 

Flarepath

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..
Revelation 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes (followers of Santa [Ni]-Claus - Yuletide, Easter [Ishtar - a goddess of fertility - eggs a symbol of fertility] etc.), WHICH I ALSO HATE.
Revelation 2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans [followers of St. [Ni]-Claus (Yuletide)], WHICH THING I HATE.
I'm in full agreement with John, namely that anybody who worships 'Saint' Nicolas'and the 'goddess' Oestre cannot be a true Christian..:)
PS- Oestre is a dead ringer for Kate Bush-

rel-oestre.jpg
 

Flarepath

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..Do you really believe that God is allegedly the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33), i.e. that He would allow the Lamb of God to be born on the exact same day that pagans celebrate Satan, the birthday of Nimrod and the most overtly materialistic event of the year?
Every day of the year probably has a now-defunct link with assorted cockamamie cults going back thousands of years, and Dec 25th just coincidentally happened to have been used by pagans in the past, and any christian nowadays will regard the day as over-riding and stamping out any paganism associated with it..:)
 

A Freeman

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Every day of the year probably has a now-defunct link with assorted cockamamie cults going back thousands of years, and Dec 25th just coincidentally happened to have been used by pagans in the past, and any christian nowadays will regard the day as over-riding and stamping out any paganism associated with it..:)
Do you know what it means to be "stiff-necked" and "hard-hearted" please?

Christ warned that the traditions of men make the Commandments of God of no effect (Matt. 15:3-9), and anyone who does such things is considered to be the lowest of the low in God's Eyes (Matt. 5:19).

The Truth that has been shared about the pagan origins of X-mas/Yuletide/Saturnalia and Ishtar/Easter wasn't done so to convince anyone of anything. It's completely understood that those who have no love for the truth will reject it, as they always do. It was shared as a warning to the precious few who are actively seeking the Truth, and have had their eyes opened to the fact that this world is FILLED with lies.
 
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A Freeman

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For those who may not be aware of these Biblical facts, please see for yourself that the pagan practice of cutting down and decorating Xmas trees predated the birth of Jesus in Bethlehem by hundreds of years.

Jeremiah 10:1-4 (written roughly 600 years before the birth of Jesus, about a well-established pagan/heathen practice still in practice today)
10:1 Hear ye the Word which the "I AM" speaketh unto you, O House of Israel:
10:2 Thus saith the "I AM", Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
10:3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
 

Flarepath

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Christ warned that the traditions of men make the Commandments of God of no effect (Matt. 15:3-9), and anyone who does such things is considered to be the lowest of the low in God's Eyes (Matt. 5:19).
No true christian follows the traditions of men-
"You were dead when you followed the ways of the world" (Eph 2:1/2)
We simply celebrate Jesus's birth and resurrection, we don't give a hoot about mickey mouse paganism..:)
 
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