"Over 40 Venezuelans killed, 850 detained in recent anti-Maduro protests: UN"

Etagloc

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#21
WHITE LEFTISTS! THE ETAGLOC SAYS HYSTERICALLY

https://www.gregpalast.com/in-venezuela-white-supremacy-is-a-key-to-trump-coup/




Hey buddy what you think about your Wahabbi brothers murdering a six year old child?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/boy-6-beheaded-front-screaming-13973480
You're the one using all caps and being hysterical. And the fact is it's mostly non-Latin people who are supporting Communism in the region.

The masses of Latin Americans despise Communism and when I talk to people in South America, pretty much everyone is against Maduro.

Also, some Saudis killing a Shia has nothing to do with me or this thread.
 





Etagloc

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#22
The lol is you assuming my positions or intent without knowing me and just putting me in some box that you think means left because of some of my views which match your belief of what left is

I don’t want Russia or the USA or any other country meddling in any countries affairs. I have no say in Russian politics I am not Russian. I should get a say in USA politics since I pay taxes and am a citizen. That doesn’t mean I’m ignoring Russia or approving of what Russia is doing. I’ve only said Venezuela should be allowed to decide what Venezuela does without interference and especially without us interference since that is where I live and actually have some say theoretically in.
You're more concerned about being anti-US and take that as your starting point rather than taking the interests of Venezuelans as your starting point- you put your own preoccupations first.

And yes you are very leftist. This is objectively the case, not subjectively. You might feel you are very moderate maybe because you live in a blue area and you're somewhat more moderate than Antifa- but objectively, you are of the left and you should be honest and quit obfuscating the facts in the discussion.
 





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#23
You're the one using all caps and being hysterical. And the fact is it's mostly non-Latin people who are supporting Communism in the region.

The masses of Latin Americans despise Communism and when I talk to people in South America, pretty much everyone is against Maduro.

Also, some Saudis killing a Shia has nothing to do with me or this thread.

You don't know anything about facts. Your whole existence and everything you believe in is a lie.

https://www.blackagendareport.com/racist-imperialist-war-venezuela

http://amsterdamnews.com/news/2019/feb/07/black-voices-rise-venezuela/


Opposition
Guaido-u2019s-Opposition.jpg

Maduro Supporters
maduro-supporters-not-white.jpg

Do you ever get tired of being wrong all the time?

The Saudi Incident ahs everything to do with you, because that is what you are.
 





Etagloc

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#24
You don't know anything about facts. Your whole existence and everything you believe in is a lie.

https://www.blackagendareport.com/racist-imperialist-war-venezuela

http://amsterdamnews.com/news/2019/feb/07/black-voices-rise-venezuela/


Opposition
View attachment 19399

Maduro Supporters
View attachment 19400

Do you ever get tired of being wrong all the time?

The Saudi Incident ahs everything to do with you, because that is what you are.
A picture is your evidence?

I'm not going off some pre-selected pictures. You have no idea what you're talking about.
 





Etagloc

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#25
And also you're a foot soldier of the NWO and Communism was a tool of bringing the NWO.... you are the one who is brainwashed.
 





Etagloc

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#27
You don't know anything about facts. Your whole existence and everything you believe in is a lie.

https://www.blackagendareport.com/racist-imperialist-war-venezuela

http://amsterdamnews.com/news/2019/feb/07/black-voices-rise-venezuela/


Opposition
View attachment 19399

Maduro Supporters
View attachment 19400

Do you ever get tired of being wrong all the time?

The Saudi Incident ahs everything to do with you, because that is what you are.
also black agenda report is a black communist website.

I mean.... you can throw in a black communist web site but.... a communist website supporting communism isn't exactly news
 





Etagloc

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#32
You use the black communists at black agenda as a prop

I am reminded of what J Edgar Hoover said in his excellent Masters of Deceit book on your Communist ilk

"The Negro, in Communist eyes, was a mere pawn, to be manipulated for the attainment of party aims."
 





Etagloc

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#33
I mean the fact is a lot of the lefties who are into this Venezuela thing... they're only interested in Latin America insofar as it benefits their agenda.... a means to an end rather than an end in itself.... when one of our posters gave his accounts directly from Brazil... the lefties here weren't happy we had boots on the ground reports from Brazil- they instead were trying to shut the man up because the boots on the ground, Brazilian perspective was not conducive to the leftist agenda
 





Etagloc

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#34
also you can go and post pre-selected pictures as though those are evidence..... but eh.... I actually went to one of those socialist hands off Latin America meetings and the whole meeting was a bunch of white people..... there were like four Latin people there and two of them were speakers and one of the other two was myself

and this was hosted in a Latin neighborhood
 





Etagloc

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#35
wow those pre-selected pictures really must have been deliberately deceptive....

you just google "Venezuelan opposition" in google images and the images look a whole lot different than what you found convenient to select

people who are gullible enough to fall for your formerly-an-open-Satanist tricks should search "Venezuelan opposition" in google images

or simply click here and look at pictures of the tens of thousands of Venezuelans who protested against Maduro

http://time.com/longform/venezuela-protests-juan-guaido-maduro/
 





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#37
You're more concerned about being anti-US and take that as your starting point rather than taking the interests of Venezuelans as your starting point- you put your own preoccupations first.

And yes you are very leftist. This is objectively the case, not subjectively. You might feel you are very moderate maybe because you live in a blue area and you're somewhat more moderate than Antifa- but objectively, you are of the left and you should be honest and quit obfuscating the facts in the discussion.
The only fact is I believe Venezuela should decide Venezuela’s own affairs, whatever way that goes is their business and fine with me.

You keep attributing arguments to me that I’m not making. Which is dishonest as hell. And I’m honestly surprised your apparantly all gung ho for a us invasion since that is literally the only thing I said I’m against and you are coming at me so hard..

I’m also not anti-US, I am anti US bullying and taking advantage of every other country on earth and anti us military industrial complex which is prioritized above all including the well being of our own citizens.
 





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#38
No, not really. Just think they should determine their own fate without US imperialist invasion... they are clearly struggling now but signing a deal with the devil will ensure they struggle forever. Look at Puerto Rico or any other Latin American country that made this bargain. Selling off their resources to foreign corporations may be a quick solution but I fear, for rational reasons, that in the long term they will be royally screwed by doing so.
Hi, this is an interesting conversation, it is not easy to unravel such a situation really.

Of course, US Imperialism is one side of the problem and Marxism/Socialism is the other.

It would seem very difficult for any South American country to have true self determination without developing its own national character free from outside influences... There are many kinds of intervention in the sovereignty of any nation, both economically and ideologically.

Jorge Elicier Gaitan from Colombia, was a man that visited every municipality in his country and said concretely vis a vis socialism that you can't apply wholesale a theory that was gestated in another reality (Europe) to a country that has its own particularities. Gaitan, in my opinion was a genius and his understanding, not only of political theory, but also of human nature is way ahead of Karl Marx.. Unfortunately 500 years of Eurocentrism has bred into people in S.America to always look outside and even an attempt at independence is handicapped by the fact that they often don't value there own people or ideas.... I have been on the inside of social movements for nigh on 20 yrs in S.America and in general much as many go on about Bolivar and Gaitan in reality they have never really read or learnt what they were saying, most of such movements get taken over by people that are more concerned with career moves and their own self importance, they rarely actually truly listen to the campesinos and they always use the campesinos needs into a means to reaching their own ideological ends especially if they are enrolled in "el partido" .... They believe in Communism as if it were a religion, or a cult and they are intolerant of other ideas. That is the reality, so whilst one side is the U.S. Imperialism the other is that the social movements get invaded and infected by Marxist communist Atheism which is not South American, not anything close to the depth of wisdom of Indigenous cultures.
People also go on that Venezuela should be allowed to sort itself out and I agree, problem is that Maduro himself will not allow Venezuela to sort itself out, Maduro is CORRUPT and he has already sold off the oil to Goldman Sachs... so its frigging rich when they go on about autonomy, what? the autonomy to sell of the countries riches and leave the people to starve? Maduro is a crook, a traitor to Chavez and totally in the pocket of outside forces or how else does anyone explain him giving the sack to Rafael Ramirez, the guy that had run PDVSA successfully for 10 years and then doing a shady deal, selling more than half the company to a Jewish bank that has been the architect of the destruction of many a country (eg Greece).... and then he goes on about autonomy and independence...???? Ha, what a load of BS.
There are many CHAVISTAS that want Maduro out and whereas no-one would want his failings to lead to a US sponsored coup the truth is that the Venezuelans are between the sword and the wall. I have spoken to many Chavistas fleeing Venezuela and they don't understand what has happened except that as soon as Chavez died things changed and that is not ONLY due to right wingers and capitalists sabotage or sanctions, it is also because Maduro is corrupt and because he got rid of the majority of the experienced ministers that had been working alongside Chavez. It is very easy for people on the outside of all this to pick a side, to say well its the proof that communism doesn't work and its better capitalism... OR that it is all down to capitalist intervention and U.S. Imperialism but these are just two sets of narratives that are part of the conditioning to which we are all subject.. "You are either for us or against us" and so you either get herded into the camp of those that go along with the U.S. + NATO allies narrative (USA, UK, France mainly) or the Russian + "non-aligned" narrative.. TWO CABALS basically and if you look at the permanent members of the UN security council there it is... they are the power brokers and they are all in it together... So people can go on about policies of non intervention as much as they like, its a great discourse but the reality is that S.America has been suffering the consequences of intervention for 500 years and its amazing how many people are now out there spouting their expert theories on Venezuelan reality when they have probably never even been to S.America.. its so easy to be an expert when you have a 24/7 internet connection but go and live with people in S.America, go on a protest with them and see how cheap their lives are, go and live with some Colombian refugees and you will soon realise that you don't know shit... There are many Venezuelans right now on the road, without homes and to be honest all they want is to eat.. at this stage they know that its 50-50 between US intervention and Inept socialists.... they would probably take the solution that gets them the chance to go home, and be able to buy some food.
 





Etagloc

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#39
The only fact is I believe Venezuela should decide Venezuela’s own affairs, whatever way that goes is their business and fine with me.

You keep attributing arguments to me that I’m not making. Which is dishonest as hell. And I’m honestly surprised your apparantly all gung ho for a us invasion since that is literally the only thing I said I’m against and you are coming at me so hard..

I’m also not anti-US, I am anti US bullying and taking advantage of every other country on earth and anti us military industrial complex which is prioritized above all including the well being of our own citizens.
You keep attributing arguments to me that I'm not making, which is dishonest as hell.

I have never supported a US invasion of Venezuela. You claim I am gung ho for such yet I have never made a statement in support of such.

The people who are most interested in Latin America and who best understand its history and culture are Latin Americans.

I don't think non-Latin people should have a say in the region's politics.

And if I want to know about Egypt- I ask a person from Egypt. If I want to know about Yemen, I ask Yemenis.

I'm interested in the discussion that is going on among Latin Americans themselves on Venezuela.

The fact is the discussion taking place among Latin Americans is totally different than what I hear non-Latin people saying.

I mean... if I want to know about Syria... I want to ask Syrians.

People in South America are saying that the reason many of the people in the US are supporting Venezuela is because they lack first-hand experience. Not everyone is saying that but many people are saying that.

If you were to poll Latin Americans, I think the vast, vast majority want Maduro gone- including if you were to only poll Venezuelans.

The whole basis for the Maduro thing is Communism and as I said before, the masses of Latin Americans despise Communism.

Maybe people who are not Latin think the US will invade Venezuela.... but I think Latin Americans in general are skeptical of this. I am not saying no Latin people think it will happen but..... I think they're a minority.

I am of the opinion that it is absurd, as are many Latin Americans.

I think a belief that it would actually happen is a mere indication of lack of grasping Latin American history. What's happening in Venezuela isn't new.

The idea that the US will invade Cuba or Venezuela any minute is an old trope of Fidel, Chávez, etc.

The fact is the invasion is simply not going to happen. It's just rhetoric from Trump, as well as rhetoric from Maduro and his camp. It's nothing more than rhetoric.

Nicaragua, El Salvador, Chile, Cuba, Venezuela- all those situations and more yet no such invasions in those cases. If you really think the invasion will happen, you've fallen for the rhetoric. It will never happen.

If you watch the videos of Yuri Bezmenoc, he says when he was growing up, he used to be told the same thing in the Soviet Union- the US was allegedly going to invade any minute.

So this is apparently a common thing with Communist regimes. They use the US as a boogeyman like George Bush used "terrorists". If you're George Bush, you say "either you're with us or you're with the terrorists," if you're a Communist dictator "you're with us or with the US imperialists!". It's a mere scam.

Let me see.... oh yes also you persist in a US-centric paradigm which is as though we live in a unipolar world- as though the US without competition rules the world.

We do not live in a unipolar world and this is naive to think this way.

This is a difference when I hear many non-Latin people discuss Venezuela and when I look at the discussion taking place among Latin Americans.

The people I talk to in South America near Venezuela generally see this as a US versus Russia thing.

To misrepresent me- and you cannot produce a quote backing your position because no such quote exists- as supporting a US invasion is not only misrepresenting my position but misrepresenting a position that is common across Latin America.

Many, many people in South America (Venezuela is in South America and South America is only part of Latin America but that's another topic) want Maduro gone.

However, this doesn't mean they would support a US invasion. I don't support a single US troop being on Latin American soil. Were US troops actually to invade Venezuela, I would be in favor of them being killed.

This is very far from the position you ascribe to me. I want Maduro removed from power but that doesn't mean I am for a US invasion.

However, my position is that such an invasion will never happen and that the very suggestion it will happen is laughable.

If Maduro is removed, it will be Venezuelans themselves who remove him.

And getting guns and money from the US isn't being a US puppet. Look at Afghanistan.

The situation isn't US versus Latin Americans. The situation is Latin Americans versus Latin Americans. One camp has Russian backing, the other camp with US backing. Latin Americans will fight it out amongst themselves, as has been the case for centuries.

And I am not advocating for a civil war. I am simply saying I want Maduro removed from power- the same as the majority of Venezuelans want. If all foreign actors were removed, Maduro would not last. It's foreign imperialism that keeps him in power in the first place.

So I simply want Maduro removed and I am not advocating for any particular means. The means would be up to God and Venezuelans.

And further, the concept that the US rules the world and the world is unipolar is mythology- not actuality. The world is not unipolar. Yemen aligned with Russia. Cuba aligned with Russia. Somalia aligned with Russia. How have things worked out for them?

What exactly have Cubans got in exchange for their suffering? What exactly does Maduro offer Venezuelans?

There is no moral or spiritual advantage in aligning with Russia rather than the US. And if there's no moral advantage, you might as well have some food to eat and to have rights and freedom rather than suffer under a Communist dictatorship. People can wish Communism on those suffering people in Venezuela but they wouldn't wish the same conditions for themselves. If they themselves were going through what the Venezuelans are going through, they would feel very differently.
 





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#40
The USA is and has been imposing malicious economic sanctions on Venezuela exacerbating their already horrific economic situation, the president has threatened to invade for what could only be to, as far as I can tell, to seize on Venezuela’s assets in the confusion and desperation ( it can’t be because they care about people starving since the US sanctions are helping them starve)...

And I’m wrong for being opposed to that? To being weary or cautious regarding MY COUNTRIES role in the situation?

If the majority of Venezuelans want Maduro out and want to end communism then I support that, I have no skin in the game. I am not a communist nor am I a Venezuelan. I just hope they find a way to do so without accepting a deal with the devil - whatever devil that may be.