"Over 40 Venezuelans killed, 850 detained in recent anti-Maduro protests: UN"

[Etagloc]

Every time I see the "interim presidents" supporters.... lots of blond hair there..... lots of name-brand gear. When I see Maduro's supporters, they look like actual Venezuelans and are wearing patriotic gear, usually in support of his party.

Well let's the two of us discuss the matter. And in as civil a way as possible. I intend to attack your arguments and I invite you to attack mine but let us avoid personal attacks, so that the conversation flows in a smooth way. I ask that we try to follow this because I want the conversation to be intellectual as possible and to not devolve into the trading of insults.

Now as far as the point.....

I made an off-hand reference to "white leftists" but it was a passing remark- and then someone else made a fuss about it. I thought about posting more to refute it but I actually deliberately left the issue. However, the fact is that the point you are making... I do not believe it is accurate.

Firstly, I do not believe we should promote division between Hispanics who are of more Spanish blood and more indigenous blood. I do not think we should focus on Hispanics having blonde hair or not. I am not accusing you of promoting racism against blonde-haired Hispanics but I believe that we should not engage in talk which can create division against Hispanics who are of more or solely Spanish blood.

I do not like talking about this on an English forum. I would prefer to switch to Spanish or discuss this on the Spanish forum I'm on, as I don't like to discuss certain issues in front of English-speakers. I think these kinds of discussions should be internal.

However..... Latin America has had 500 years of history since the arrival of the Spanish. The past has to be let go and there should be harmony between the various racial types.

To feed into this attacking blonde-haired Hispanics is nothing more than promotion of divison among Hispanics. Some of the anti-Hispanic sentiment is indigenous but some of it is promoted by alien, foreign ideology such as Marxism. The fact is there is no need to import the abhorrent Bolshevik Revolution. The Mexican Revolution was first and was far superior.

That is merely a preliminary discussion. I do not care if you are pure indigenous or even a person who is from Spain and of pure Spanish blood. I don't care if your hair is blonde or jet-black.

Honestly, I regret even making the remark about "white leftists" here. I made it as a passing remark and it was an expression of my thinking but this is an English forum and I didn't realize it would strike such a nerve and become such a point of contention.

Should we go and start investing the racial composition of the factions? No, I do not like that approach. It is a Marxist approach but I do not believe it is a right approach.

However- we can look at some pictures of the opposition and analyze if we insist in analyzing in such a direction.

Is this a blonde-haired Spaniard?

I urge the Maduro supporters to watch this video and listen to this woman's voice. Listen to her voice.

This woman protesting Maduro doesn't look like a blonde-haired Spaniard to me:

Is this a blonde-haired Spaniard?

Is this a blonde-haired Spaniard?

Do you see a crowd of blonde-haired Spaniards here?

Is this a crowd of blonde-haired Spaniards?

I'm just pulling stuff up at random. Still not seeing these crowds of blonde-haired Spaniards

I'm not saying there's no blonde-haired Spaniards here but..... it would be like looking for Waldo

Can you find blonde-haired Waldo in this picture?

I'm just not seeing this movement of blonde-haired Spaniards. Looks pretty mestizo to me.

 

[Etagloc]

And these kids are starving for what? For supporting the Russian bloc? Is supporting Russia that important?

How do Africans feel about China taking over Africa?

'No black man is allowed to date our women': Man beaten to death for dating Chinese woman (WATCH VIDEO)

https://www.myzimbabwe.co.zw/videos-pics/32554-no-black-man-is-allowed-to-date-our-women-man-beaten-to-death-for-dating-chinese-woman-watch-video.html

The US is not the friend of Latin America and Africa..... but are we to be naive enough to think that China and Russia are the friends of Latin America and Africa?

I can't read a lot of this thread because a lot of it is in Swahili but I have seen many people making similar remarks

My people, I am real scare of Chinese

"The way Chinese they are operating in Africa its scary real scary just as we think of our governments they are so corrupted they can sale all of us for the benefits of one man's family I wonder if we will survive this round of colonial period of Africa ..my people I take a look at Zambia and Kenya it feels like we are next in trouble my Tanzania I love u so much

"

https://www.jamiiforums.com/threads/my-people-i-am-real-scare-of-chinese.1485749/

I mean I'm no expert on what is happening in Africa but I figure the people on a Swahili forum based in Kenya would know better than I would.

How China Is Colonizing Africa Using Trade, Aid, and Debt-Trap Diplomacy

https://www.panafricanalliance.com/china-africa-colonialism/

Are we to invite these people into Latin America? Them and the Russians?

Latin Americans know the US.... Latin Americans have been dealing with the US for a long, long time. Latin Americans know the US.

However, the Russians- do you know these people? I don't know these people. I have never been to Russia in my life and speak not a word of Russian. And Chinese..... I have no idea about Chinese people. I don't know anything about Chinese people and I have never been to China.

Uyghur woman details life inside Chinese 're-education camp' in Xinjiang

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-08/uyghur-woman-details-life-inside-chinese-re-education-camp/10697044

I mean..... whatever the US has done..... the US isn't just throwing people in re-education camps like China does....... the US at least Latin Americans know and are familiar with...... these Russians and Chinese...... these are super, super foreign presences....... and these are not benevolent presences.....

Is Pakistan in danger of becoming a Chinese colony?

https://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/42250/is-pakistan-in-danger-of-becoming-a-chinese-colony/

Do you think Pakistan is in danger of becoming a Chinese colony?

• Yes (70%, 756 Votes)
• No (18%, 191 Votes)
• Time will tell (12%, 132 Votes)

Total Voters: 1,079

The idea that aligning with the US is making a deal with the devil is.... it is naive and simplistic.

The reality of today's world is bloc politics. All this hype about US imperialism as though the world is unipolar is just hype promoted by China and Russia to advance their imperialism.

The idea that Latin American countries can avoid aligning with one side or the other is..... simply not realistic.

The reality is you have to align with the US bloc or the Russia bloc. You're going to have to align with one or the other and you have to choose which is best. That's simply how it is. Any analysis that does not take that as its starting point is not in line with reality. Reality, not rhetoric, has to be the starting point.

Latin America is better off aligning with the US bloc. The US bloc isn't perfect but...... Latin America is better off aligning with the US bloc than the Russia-China bloc. You're better off aligning with the US. Look how aligning with Russia worked out for Cuba........... what have Cubans got in exchange? The only winner was Fidel, his camp and Communism. However, it wasn't a win for Cubans. People can say what they want about Puerto Rico but I'd rather live in Puerto Rico than Cuba.

In fact, here are the results of a referendum in Puerto Rico

Puerto Rican status referendum, 2017 Location Puerto RicoDate June 11, 2017Voting system PluralityResults





Statehood

97.18%
Independence/Free Association

1.50%
Current Territorial Status

1.32%

97% wanted to become a US state. Less than 2% voted to become an independent country.

That's Puerto Rico's route, though. I'm not saying other countries should specifically go that route but my point is the US is better to align with than Russia and China.

 

[Colonel Valerio]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1095733785222696961

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Well let's the two of us discuss the matter. And in as civil a way as possible. I intend to attack your arguments and I invite you to attack mine but let us avoid personal attacks, so that the conversation flows in a smooth way. I ask that we try to follow this because I want the conversation to be intellectual as possible and to not devolve into the trading of insults.

Now as far as the point.....

I made an off-hand reference to "white leftists" but it was a passing remark- and then someone else made a fuss about it. I thought about posting more to refute it but I actually deliberately left the issue. However, the fact is that the point you are making... I do not believe it is accurate.

Firstly, I do not believe we should promote division between Hispanics who are of more Spanish blood and more indigenous blood. I do not think we should focus on Hispanics having blonde hair or not. I am not accusing you of promoting racism against blonde-haired Hispanics but I believe that we should not engage in talk which can create division against Hispanics who are of more or solely Spanish blood.

I do not like talking about this on an English forum. I would prefer to switch to Spanish or discuss this on the Spanish forum I'm on, as I don't like to discuss certain issues in front of English-speakers. I think these kinds of discussions should be internal.

However..... Latin America has had 500 years of history since the arrival of the Spanish. The past has to be let go and there should be harmony between the various racial types.

To feed into this attacking blonde-haired Hispanics is nothing more than promotion of divison among Hispanics. Some of the anti-Hispanic sentiment is indigenous but some of it is promoted by alien, foreign ideology such as Marxism. The fact is there is no need to import the abhorrent Bolshevik Revolution. The Mexican Revolution was first and was far superior.

That is merely a preliminary discussion. I do not care if you are pure indigenous or even a person who is from Spain and of pure Spanish blood. I don't care if your hair is blonde or jet-black.

Honestly, I regret even making the remark about "white leftists" here. I made it as a passing remark and it was an expression of my thinking but this is an English forum and I didn't realize it would strike such a nerve and become such a point of contention.

Should we go and start investing the racial composition of the factions? No, I do not like that approach. It is a Marxist approach but I do not believe it is a right approach.

However- we can look at some pictures of the opposition and analyze if we insist in analyzing in such a direction.

Is this a blonde-haired Spaniard?

I urge the Maduro supporters to watch this video and listen to this woman's voice. Listen to her voice.

This woman protesting Maduro doesn't look like a blonde-haired Spaniard to me:

Is this a blonde-haired Spaniard?

Is this a blonde-haired Spaniard?

Do you see a crowd of blonde-haired Spaniards here?

Is this a crowd of blonde-haired Spaniards?

I'm just pulling stuff up at random. Still not seeing these crowds of blonde-haired Spaniards

I'm not saying there's no blonde-haired Spaniards here but..... it would be like looking for Waldo

Can you find blonde-haired Waldo in this picture?

I'm just not seeing this movement of blonde-haired Spaniards. Looks pretty mestizo to me.

It will take me a bit of time to formulate a proper reply to this.

 

[Etagloc]

It will take me a bit of time to formulate a proper reply to this.

Take your time. Your input is most welcome, though our positions may differ.

 

[Etagloc]

This is not my post but I really enjoyed this:

There's no two ways about it. The American far left's response to Venezuelans disagreeing with them is straight up racist.


While thousands upon thousands of Venezuelans suffer from lack of food or basic medical supplies, the American far left sit comfortably on reddit and tell you that Maduro did nothing wrong. Meanwhile, Venezuelans try to get their point across that they're sick of Maduro, but what does the American far left do?

They say Venezuelans aren't *real* Venezuelans, because they live in the US too. If they don't live in the US, they're not really Venezuelan because they live in Europe or South America. If they don't live anywhere but Venezuelans, they arent' real Venezuelans because they speak English. If they don't or barely speak English, they're not real Venezuelans because they have internet. Basically, the only real Venezuelans that a non Venezuelan can speak to are ones who don't live near them, can't speak their language, and have no way of communicating with. In effect, it means completely ignore all Venezuelans you could possibly speaking to in any way.

Meanwhile, they're Americans, many of them have never even visited Venezuela. All of them are online. All of them speak English. Most of them are middle class, some are even rich celebrities like Boots Riley. You see, while no Venezuelan you can ever speak with is actually Venezuelan, a bunch of US middle class kids do somehow speak for all Venezuelans.

Do they not realize how fucked up this is? They're saying all Latin American immigrants in the US should not be listened to on matters of poverty because they are rich or have class interests? What the fuck?

Just having internet doesn't make you not a common citizen. They have this fucked up view of Venezuelan that it's some sort of remote war zone where only the 1% have a television. They sound just like Republicans who say that the American poor are not really poor because they own a refrigerator.

I don't ask the American far left to endorse a land invasion of Venezuela. I don't ask them to support sanctions or recognizing Juan Guaidó. I don't even ask them to support life-saving aid to reach Venezuela. All I ask is for them to stop defending Maduro's fradulent elections! All I ask is for them to listen to the people of Venezuela for fuck's sake and let your ideological goals aside for once!

 

[Etagloc]

very insightful response: "Yeah, that's one of the things that pisses me off the most about tankies. Their obsession with America and western capitalism being the Root Of All Evil ends up constantly denying the personhood of basically every other ethnicity and culture. Which then lets them both claim that foreign cultures/countries are too pure and innocent to be capable of that sort of evil, but any refugees from there are maniacally evil and trying to destroy Paradise out of sheer spite. #LookinAtYouChomsky"

"It's this weird mixture of paternalism, White-man's burden, straight up bigotry, and the complete opposite of American ExceptionalismTM (where the US can do no right and does everything for evil). "Oh, your country has issues, it's clearly the US's fault!"

Couple that with the blind devotion to the cause and the denial of reality and history, they'd rather just call any Venezuelan that disagrees with them a bootlicker/shill/"not-a-real-Venezuelan" than reassess their views."

"Maduro apologists also claim that light-skinned Venezuelans aren't true Venezuelans."

"the far left in america flat out believes in a new age version of white man's burden

the left in general in america is a party of rich city kids who have never been poor and don't know anything about the poor and have a condescending attitude towards the poor, and who only want "muh revolution" because they think that they will be the ones on top afterwards, same as every group of rich tin pot scumsuckers in history"

"I literally saw some shit like this go down on tumblr just today. A Venezuelan criticizes Maduro's new marketing campaign to make his regime and Venezuela look all hunky dory, and I shit you not, some mouth breathing turds literally tried to call him out for speaking english really well. When he replied in spanish, they said it was too neat, and further suggested he wasn't really hungry because he wasn't a real venezuelan (which implies all kinds of shit). He then points out the wonders of the black market that has helped him get food and those cockheads had nothin to say really."

 

[Vixy]

Maduro the burro as they say. Maduro was handed the leadership by Chavez, according to ex minister and boss of PDVSA, Rafael Ramirez, because the Cubans put enourmous pressure on Chavez, him being ill in their hospitals and all that!!!!!!! Personally I would say that Chavez did have a good heart and he tried to head in the right direction but he was heavily handicapped, as are all independently minded South American leaders, whether left or right, by reliance on outside help... Chavez got pulled in by the Cuban Marxists and Cuba has been all along a TROYAN HORSE... Castro et al were funded at the start by the USA, they were given good publicity in the NYT... and when they got in they had all the help necessary from expert Communist Ideologs.... then when other countries got on the leftist bandwagon, such as Chile which had a strong flavour of autonomous folk culture and doing things their way, the Cubans came to visit, Fidel stayed for months like one of those uninvited guests that came to deliberately spoil the party. When he was finally about to leave Allende did not attend his goodbye bash, Allende never liked the communists and said they never did anything but sabotage.... Allende was also a Mason but gave up his masonic membership because he realised were it was at... Pinocho was helped by Kissenger, the CIA etc to make the coup but even he had to realise after that the North Americans had their own agenda and he was snubbed on various key issues.... Maduro is a not of the calibre or intelligence of an Allende or Chavez but even they failed to get the full extent of the danger of Marxism..... The key would have been to adopt a more national socialist idea, more fully independent of outside influences from either left or right. Maduro in this case is an out and out tool of the Rich bankers... HE ALREADY SOLD 69% of PDVSA shares at rock bottom price to GOLDMAN SACHS in order to get leverage for a loan that has to be paid back by 2022 at 300%... MABURRO and then some, the guy is a total crook and has sold out his country to the rich bankers, he is being propped up. Personally I think that Pompeo and Trump are just playing about making threats, Maduro is actually backed by some pretty powerful international criminal organisations that in the end also feed back to the White House, or give orders to the White House more like.... GOLDMAN SACHS... yeah...... so this is all a stitch up and it is a shame that Chavez got so taken in by Fidel... a wolf in sheeps clothing if ever there was one.

So its the same thing happening all over the world then, just like I was thinking. France has macron, Sweden has Lövén, venezuela has Maduro, germany Merkel and so on.. Its these friggin globalists behind it ALL! They're placing their guys all over for one massive take down and the implementing of a New World Order.