Notre Dame Cathedral Fire

[Wigi]

Oh it goes way beyond 'politically incorrect'. Right wing conspiracy land ideology is toxic to the core and is responsible for an ever growing number of deaths. This is way beyond being edgy online. Convince the wrong person that Muslims did it and we'll see "retaliation". Those right-wing types in America are encouraging harm towards a sitting US Congresswoman by the way.



How so? Everyone here is just providing their own interpretation of events, and of course that is influenced by personal preference and beliefs. You, the creator of this thread started it through a lens of personal preference or belief.



Religion has been declining in France and most of the rest of Europe ( and America to a lesser extent ) so what's there to replace? Besides religions do have to evolve if they wish to be relevant. Christianity of a thousand years ago cannot be that same religion today. It's insistence on being that way is a huge driver for it's losses in recent decades. I remember when there used to be terrorist attacks with an Islamic motive and people would argue about how that was staged now the same people try and prove it was a muslim when something burns down.



Its pretty classist to assume that no one takes care of their trailers, depreciation aside and ignoring for now the fact about massive financial interests buy up the lots and engage in rent gouging- you really missed the point. Which is nothing is safe from time whether its a mobile home or Notre Dame Cathedral. There is an irony to this story that a restoration projection is ultimately responsible for nearly destroying it.



Yeah the spins are plentiful, the biggest, most dangerous and irresponsible one is blaming Muslims without a shred of evidence. Yeah you don't have anything other than opinion. I'll have facts and verified reporting and I'll wait for further information to make any kind of speculation other than that anyone who knows anything about construction work will know that there are countless things that could have happened which support the idea of an accidental fire.

As I said three black churches were set on fire in ten days in the USA and no one said anything. A large US city still suffers from a toxic water problem that could be fixed 7 times over with the money raised for Notre Dame in one day. So excuse me for rolling my eyes when right wing intellectuals bitch about what a loss to "WESTERN CIVILIZATION".

One more time, trying to baselessly pin this on the MOSLEMS and an attack on Christianity is not only false but a dangerous idea that has real world consequences. We've seen it over and over and whether you or anyone else here see's it, reality does not change based on your feelings or denial of it.

I hear your points but I don't know why it has to become a 'right wing vs the world' discussion.

The reality of this event it's people feeling attacked in their identity, it's watching people laughing while your culture is dying.

You need to understand how it feel to be European today, to see everything burning in flames and nobody cares because it's not politically correct to point out problems.

It's my reality and the truth is i'm not alone, we're all tired of being accused of thought crimes because reality isn't pleasant.

You don't know how it feel to see terror and being called fascist on medias because you don't want to let your loved ones die.

You're right that everyone need to chill and calm down but I'm saying we shouldn't underestimate people's emotions.

People tend to forget that two world wars occurred because people felt hopeless in their silence.

 

[Vixy]

I hear your points but I don't know why it has to become a 'right wing vs the world' discussion.

The reality of this event it's people feeling attacked in their identity, it's watching people laughing while your culture is dying.

You need to understand how it feel to be European today, to see everything burning in flames and nobody cares because it's not politically correct to point out problems.

It's my reality and the truth is i'm not alone, we're all tired of being accused of thought crimes because reality isn't pleasant.

You don't know how it feel to see terror and being called fascist on medias because you don't want to let your loved ones die.

You're right that everyone need to chill and calm down but I'm saying we shouldn't underestimate people's emotions.

People tend to forget that two world wars occurred because people felt hopeless in their silence.

My deep condolensces, Wigi. Got any info about your other churches having been set on fire? I've heard about whats going on over there..

 

[justjess]

They have set fire to 876 churches around France, England and Germany. I doubt they know the desctintion between chatolisism and chriatianity, really jess, think alittle bit before answering in such childish ways. You said you were a nanny or something, show that by not talking like a child, would you?

Oh sweet sweet vixy... u know for damn sure I never said I was a nanny, and sarcasm is not childish. It’s a respected centuries old way of communication which you yourself evidenced being well versed in above.

 

[justjess]

Umm, no, anyone is welcome but you even just protested about my simple one-liner, LOL I just see it fruitless to discuss some things for I know where it ends. But hey, I have been getting used to pointing fingers and people telling me how I feel of late. So, don't say I am keeping you from freedom of speech when I am not. But you do protest. A lot. Seriously, you fired shots at anti-Catholics while not naming them, so, em, how does that help conversation?

As I explained above as someone who has been privy to the heavy anti catholic sentiment around here for years, who was raised Catholic, who’s entire family is catholic, who’s children have received their sacraments from the Catholic Church, who has defended the Catholic Church on this very site and been harangued because of it, especially when way back when I was catholic when I joined - it is a bit head turning to read HERE OF ALL PLACES that suddenly Catholics are Christians and this is an attack on Christianity from the same people who have consistently as recently as weeks (if not days) ago insisted Catholics were in fact worshipping Satan. It is hypocrisy. It is blatantly shocking. And it’s the kind of argument someone makes when they are dishonest and just trying to make any argument to support their own skewed interpretation of the world. It’s moving goalposts. It can’t be an attack on Christianity if Catholics aren’t actually Christians, can it? So all of a sudden as if by MAGIC poof Catholics are Christians again. It’s hard NOT to comment on it, sorry.

But nothing I said was “leftist” so your one liner about “leftists” was again hard not to comment on. Call me a papist if you want but leftist had no place in the conversation.

As for the fire, as I previously stated - my first thought was arson, my second was “shit that’s a lot of scaffolding” - my husband works in construction it’s a dangerous career precisely because construction accidents are common. I wouldn’t be shocked if it turned out to be arson but until there’s some evidence showing it’s arson... if it walks like a duck blah blah.

I highly doubt if it was arson, that it was Muslims. There’s enough native shit going on in France and enough anti papist sentiment world wide that you don’t need the Muslim boogeyman for this one.

 

[justjess]

Also I will say this...

If the Catholic Church had a shred of frigging dignity they would foot the bill for repairing Notre Dame itself and donate the close to a billion dollars raised so far to feed the poor or something. They are one of the richest organizations on earth, they do not need the charity.

Edit: it’s at an actual billion now.

 

[grateful servant]

It can’t be an attack on Christianity if Catholics aren’t actually Christians, can it?

 

[The Zone]

Hey, I get the passion Jess and perhaps I have made light of a serious subject to some, but I did put smileys and LOL's in my statement and you went to it as if it were directed 100% at you when it was a mere observation of the last several posts. I don't like to get caught up in religious discussions which all true regulars know, so I generally frown when people are called out and I honestly do not know who in many cases if they are lumped as Christians, Catholic haters etc. I mean, why not call the poster(s) out directly instead of leaving it up to interpretation and imagination. You cannot assume that every poster here knows your past or conversations you have beamed into. We do not all read every thread or the same ones...

All that said, what we are seeing is raw emotion from many now and wasn't that perhaps the intent if anything nefarious took place?

Lastly, many/some Christians here have a very odd belief system to me in that some follow very small sects of beliefs at least in the forum. . But I do maintain, that the constant calling out of individuals and groups here is a daily affair and usually ends in a predictable manner.

I think some take me too seriously at times as well, so perhaps I should heed my advice and call out what I see as leftist ideologies instead of making a lump observation and one-liner.
Oh, and I am not one of those this is my thread posters. I feel all content here once posted is the communities and therefore all are welcomed to comment but we all need to come in here with thicker skin at times. So, sorry if you feel like I was targeting you personally, which was not the case. We disagree a great deal on policies but we are still friends, right?

Finally, I have said this could be an attack on Christianity but also have thrown out many other scenarios trying to swim about and collect hard to find facts. But we seem to get caught up in personal beefs about who is worthy of commenting here more than we actually discuss the subject. I suppose that is just the norm and we all have to adjust accordingly.

 

[justjess]

Yeah we are still friends, just sometimes feels lately everything I say is met with a snide leftist comment even if it has nothing to do with politics and it’s annoying.

As for the fire if it was engineered for any reason it was to unite the French who were starting to truly splinter, and have some massive discord. Order out of chaos. So I wouldn’t go blaming the Muslims etc. cause if anyone lit it up it was the French elite themselves. Maybe they will try to frame it how our country framed 911 to make a common enemy but I haven’t seen indication of that yet which is why I’m leaning towards construction accident.

We aren’t going to figure out every worldly mystery, it’s just not in the cards and quite a while ago I decided maybe it just doesnt matter. We’re all screwed anyway, where the screwing is coming from might not be as important as being able to protect ourselves to the best of our ability when the other shoe inevitably drops. And I think that’s a pretty natural personal progression after ten years lost down this rabbit hole. But that’s me. I do the best I can in the areas I actually can accomplish something and leave the rest to fate/god whatever you want to call it.

It’s a quick forum search to witness for yourself the anti catholic sentiment pervasive on these boards, just a tip.

 

[The Zone]

An interesting take ...

 

[free2018]

Hmm, would these decorations make you reconsider?

No, it does not shake my faith at all.
My faith is not in a building.
The real church is men and women of faith.
I don't worship idols and haven't in many years.

The church represents historically Christendom and it should stand.
All the pagan symbolism and terrible homo heretic scandals-- really pedo scandals-- need to go.

 

[Lurker]

They are one of the richest organizations on earth, they do not need the charity.

The church doesn't own the building, the French state does.
That said, wasn't there insurance?

 

[Wigi]

The church doesn't own the building, the French state does.
That said, wasn't there insurance?

Sadly the answer is no.

Notre Dame has no insurance policy
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/notre-dame-has-no-insurance-policy-2019-04-16

Notre Dame will be closed to tourists for SIX YEARS, rector reveals as it emerges 850-year-old cathedral has NO insurance policy

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8884842/notre-dame-no-insurance-policy-closed-tourists/

It's pretty clear for everyone that Notre Dame fire will impact tourism in France.

Update :

For the chief architect of historical monuments responsible for the restoration of the spire of Notre Dame, Philippe Villeneuve, "the work had not started yet, only the scaffolding were being assembled". From his point of view, "the hot spot hypothesis is therefore not the right one".
(Link in French)

French medias are pushing this hot spot hypothesis despite the explanations coming from the chief architect.

As far as we know, there was no workers when it happened and apparently no hot spot causing fire because of welding.

Wait and see. Maybe the chief architect is wrong, maybe it's divine judgement. Who knows?

 

[Thunderian]

Also I will say this...

If the Catholic Church had a shred of frigging dignity they would foot the bill for repairing Notre Dame itself and donate the close to a billion dollars raised so far to feed the poor or something. They are one of the richest organizations on earth, they do not need the charity.

Amen.

I am just fine with Catholics, other than some differences in doctrine. The Catholic Church, however, is the biggest criminal organization in history, and the majority of it's victims have been practicing Catholics. The Roman Catholic Church should be outlawed and disbanded in every nation on earth, and it's leaders should be arrested, whipped through the streets, and then tried for their lives in cages, like Italian mafiosi.

 

[Renegade]

 

[Aero]

An accident can mean a lot of things. It's like the go-to excuse to cover up negligence on multiple levels.

 

[DevaWolf]

Certainly this was a very symbolic 'accident'. I am pretty sure someone is behind it who wants to divert the sentiment in France more, as the newspapers said the heart of France was burning. And I believe it has been burning for some time, it's just getting visible now. This will only add to the civil unrest that is already brewing in France, and I wonder where this will lead.
I would not be surprised if some form of civil war could break out soon.

 

[Allegra]

I’m confused what’s the argument here? Notre Dame is a ‘church’ right? It’s a Catholic Church? And also a lot of churches are vandalised lately as it has been reported.
I came from a non-Christian country and people there see Catholic and Protestant as Christian or at least the God is the same. So in the eyes of the world, those who are not Protestant nor Catholic, they’re seeing it the same thing. Christian. They don’t really care about having to learn the differences.

To be honest, there are more topics to discuss about this than Catholic being called Christian here.

 

[The Zone]

Well, what we see is the thread devolve into personal grudges more often than not. I see a lot of people blaming members for comments made by others on say a video or forum. An example, just because Site A is linked and it is saying Muslims are behind it does not mean people here think that. Has anyone actually made this accusation in the thread? Nor, should we get caught up in links designed to incite or divide while trying to figure this one out.

This thread was not about Catholics being Christians but it took a turn and strange bedfellows pushed it in that direction. What is odd to me is that some people who take the same sides here would have major issues with one another in real life or in person from religious differences.

There are people here who always want to take shots at Christian or Muslim beliefs and the worst crime is they lump all in one group together as if they have a hive mind when all are quite different and free thinking.

 

[Wigi]

Certainly this was a very symbolic 'accident'. I am pretty sure someone is behind it who wants to divert the sentiment in France more, as the newspapers said the heart of France was burning. And I believe it has been burning for some time, it's just getting visible now. This will only add to the civil unrest that is already brewing in France, and I wonder where this will lead.
I would not be surprised if some form of civil war could break out soon.

It could be the plot and I think it's strange to see people falling for this right vs left trap as we know that the problem is global and many factors must be considered.

If it's arson, who benefit the most of this situation?

Is it an attempt to unite French people and put a rest to months of protests?

Is this a plot to create more unstability so it could lead us to be guided by our emotions and do the unthinkable?

If it's not arson what is the symbolic meaning of it?

I mean, am I the only one who sees it as a sign of times?
Maybe It looks like the end of western civilisation as we know it for a new world order coming out of Christendom ashes.

We know this website taught us that symbols rules our world so what's the meaning of that ?

For French people,
it clearly symbolize the cleansing of our past and it emphasize the will of the french government to stop teaching French History in our schools because of political correctness.

 

[justjess]

Well, what we see is the thread devolve into personal grudges more often than not. I see a lot of people blaming members for comments made by others on say a video or forum. An example, just because Site A is linked and it is saying Muslims are behind it does not mean people here think that. Has anyone actually made this accusation in the thread? Nor, should we get caught up in links designed to incite or divide while trying to figure this one out.

This thread was not about Catholics being Christians but it took a turn and strange bedfellows pushed it in that direction. What is odd to me is that some people who take the same sides here would have major issues with one another in real life or in person from religious differences.

There are people here who always want to take shots at Christian or Muslim beliefs and the worst crime is they lump all in one group together as if they have a hive mind when all are quite different and free thinking.

Yeah actually vixy made the argument it was Muslims. Pretty damn clearly.