DesertRose
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Modern Marriage
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DesertRose
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lol Agreed!
They are just pointing out a key thing, methinks.......that love ebbs and flows and that divorce should not be an automatic when that feeling is on the ebb side.
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Karlysymon
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Ayelet Waldman wrote about loving her husband more than her kids and she experienced alot of backlash for it. She also appeared on the Oprah show as a result
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/27/fashion/truly-madly-guiltily.html
Not exactly enticing to board a ship with 10 people and only 4 are going to make it to the other shore...
DesertRose
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I thought it was 5 and we could round upNot exactly enticing to board a ship with 10 people and only 4 are going to make it to the other shore...
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
John A. Shedd
Emotions and Numbers. . . . the divorce numbers are definitely higher now as compared with the previous decade. . . . . and its increasing with the an accelerating pace. . . . . . . we are all talking emotions but if just google the divorce data you would get some what near to the truth. . . . .
JoChris
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I always tried to make sure that I looked after the marriage as much as my boys. Children are happier with happily married parents.Ayelet Waldman wrote about loving her husband more than her kids and she experienced alot of backlash for it. She also appeared on the Oprah show as a result
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/27/fashion/truly-madly-guiltily.html
Not exactly enticing to board a ship with 10 people and only 4 are going to make it to the other shore...
Several things I resolved to do early on, from watching my parents' bad marriage:
Forgive AND forget. Don't bring up mistakes from 10 years ago to justify abusing spouse for not putting out rubbish today.
Treat spouse with as much respect in private as you would in public. You would want the same.
Stop expecting them to be perfect. You never will be.
If you must argue, do it with civility and never in front of the children. It is traumatising for them. Argue as grownups, not like you're still toddlers.
Major issues - seek help ASAP. There is no shame in seeking assistance when needed. Don't care about what other people might think. It isn't THEIR marriage.
Karlysymon
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Nice quote. XeonNeon is right about the numbers being higher (60% in my analogy) because i saw something about only 40-50% actually making it to the books...as in people who actually file for divorce... But there is another group that formally separates but don't file for divorce because of marital benefits and many other reasons. So you have people who are still legally married but the relationship is over and they aren't living together.I thought it was 5 and we could round up
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for."
John A. Shedd
DesertRose
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Love those thoughts @JoChris and I agree once kids are involved the stakes are up and the parents have to try to make it work for them unless major issues are involved. Also like your rule about civility in disagreements.
That is terrible for the future.
"Children from fatherless homes are likelier to drop out of high school, die by suicide, have behavioral disorders, join gangs, commit crimes and end up in prison."
Walter E. Williams article at Lew Rockwell.
Thanks for the reminder. I haven't been over there in a while.
DesertRose
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Research proves social conservatives right: Marriage helps families escape poverty
Dorothy Cummings McLean Follow Dorothy
November 7, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) – The one big factor separating poor families from comfortable and wealthy families is marriage, say sociologists.
Writing in The Federalist, Glenn T. Stanton of Focus on the Family reviewed the current literature indicating that marriage has replaced employment and education as the central factor in the financial well-being of families. His findings are startling.
The marriage rate is “sinking” among lower and middle-class American adults; it’s now down to 48%. It has, however, remained stable among the wealthy. And it’s “the proliferation of single-parent households” that “accounts for virtually all of the increase in child poverty since the early 1970s,” as Stanton quotes Jonathan Rauch.
In the early 1990s, sociologist Bill Galston said that to stay out, or climb out, of poverty, Americans needed to do only three things: graduate from high school, marry before having a child, and have that first child after the age of 20. Only 8% of Americans who follow these rules will be poor, Galston claimed, whereas 79% who fail in all three respects will certainly live in poverty.
This “success sequence”--high school, marriage, and only then baby carriage--still holds true today, and “working-class” women are three times more likely to have babies out of wedlock than wealthy women. Poor women are five times more likely than wealth women to have babies outside marriage. Both poor and working class women are twice as likely to be cohabiting than their richer sisters.
Marriage has a “extraordinary economic power,” Stanton wrote. “It boosts every important measure of well-being for women, children and men.” That includes income, health, savings, employment, educational success, happiness, recovery from serious illness--even a healthy diet.
“Marriage is an essential active ingredient in improving one’s overall life prospects, regardless of class race, or educational status,” Stanton observed. Astonishing as it may seem, the poverty rate for children living with two unmarried, cohabiting parents is similar to that of single-mother led households. Even so-called “shotgun” marriages, contracted when the bride was pregnant, help keep women and children out of poverty.
But doubters have asked if this is putting the cart before the horse. Does marriage really generate wealth, or does wealth generate marriage?
“That’s the criticism some scholars have had--the liberal scholars,” Stanton told LifeSiteNews. “But marriage itself is a wealth creating institution. That’s what the research is finding.”
Marriage creates wealth because marriage encourages men to become better, more committed workers, providers and savers. Married men are less likely to fall into substance abuse, they are less likely either to commit or fall victim to crime, they have better health and they’re even less accident-prone. “A married man is a far different kind of man than the single or cohabiting man,” Stanton told Lifesitenews.
He said that one of the factors helping married people do better financially than cohabiting or single people is that they manage their money in a better way. For example, the cohabiting man is less likely than the married man to hand over his pay to the woman he lives with, for banking and settling household expenses. The cohabiting man is very aware that the woman he lives with is not his wife and is reluctant to allow this non-wife to manage his money. “It’s curious that cohabiting women are more likely to have to work but are more likely to live in poverty,” said Stanton.
Meanwhile, the married man is more likely to be given a job than the cohabiting or single man because employers know that married men tend to be more stable workers.
“When you’re married, your wife reminds you that you have to stick with your unfulfilling job until you have a new one,” said Stanton. “Married men settle down; unmarried men don’t settled down. This is shown time and time again in the [research] literature.”
Stanton argued against the idea that young men no longer want to marry, fearing marriage leads straight to divorce and financial ruin. “Most young men do want to get married,” he told LifeSiteNews. “If they could wave a magic wand to make it happen, they would.”
The problem is that marriage intimidates contemporary young men--and in today’s world, where more women than men graduate from college,“there’s not a lot going for them.” Stanton thinks that contemporary young men are intimidated by “strong, capable women.” Meanwhile, he said, young women are just as afraid of divorce. Stanton says that the thought “I don’t want to fail at marriage like my parents did” is what leads young adults to cohabit rather than marry.
Stanton thinks women are compromising on the quality of men they marry or live with. However, there is reason to believe the married men will improve. “The irony,” Stanton told LifeSiteNews, “is that with so many [successful, married] men, it was their marriage that made them what they became.” A man who isn’t married by his late twenties hasn’t been developed by marriage and family.
“Marriage transforms men more than it transforms women,” Stanton told LifeSiteNews. “Women insisting that men become good husbands and fathers make the change.”
Dorothy Cummings McLean Follow Dorothy
November 7, 2017 (LifeSiteNews) – The one big factor separating poor families from comfortable and wealthy families is marriage, say sociologists.
Writing in The Federalist, Glenn T. Stanton of Focus on the Family reviewed the current literature indicating that marriage has replaced employment and education as the central factor in the financial well-being of families. His findings are startling.
The marriage rate is “sinking” among lower and middle-class American adults; it’s now down to 48%. It has, however, remained stable among the wealthy. And it’s “the proliferation of single-parent households” that “accounts for virtually all of the increase in child poverty since the early 1970s,” as Stanton quotes Jonathan Rauch.
In the early 1990s, sociologist Bill Galston said that to stay out, or climb out, of poverty, Americans needed to do only three things: graduate from high school, marry before having a child, and have that first child after the age of 20. Only 8% of Americans who follow these rules will be poor, Galston claimed, whereas 79% who fail in all three respects will certainly live in poverty.
This “success sequence”--high school, marriage, and only then baby carriage--still holds true today, and “working-class” women are three times more likely to have babies out of wedlock than wealthy women. Poor women are five times more likely than wealth women to have babies outside marriage. Both poor and working class women are twice as likely to be cohabiting than their richer sisters.
Marriage has a “extraordinary economic power,” Stanton wrote. “It boosts every important measure of well-being for women, children and men.” That includes income, health, savings, employment, educational success, happiness, recovery from serious illness--even a healthy diet.
“Marriage is an essential active ingredient in improving one’s overall life prospects, regardless of class race, or educational status,” Stanton observed. Astonishing as it may seem, the poverty rate for children living with two unmarried, cohabiting parents is similar to that of single-mother led households. Even so-called “shotgun” marriages, contracted when the bride was pregnant, help keep women and children out of poverty.
But doubters have asked if this is putting the cart before the horse. Does marriage really generate wealth, or does wealth generate marriage?
“That’s the criticism some scholars have had--the liberal scholars,” Stanton told LifeSiteNews. “But marriage itself is a wealth creating institution. That’s what the research is finding.”
Marriage creates wealth because marriage encourages men to become better, more committed workers, providers and savers. Married men are less likely to fall into substance abuse, they are less likely either to commit or fall victim to crime, they have better health and they’re even less accident-prone. “A married man is a far different kind of man than the single or cohabiting man,” Stanton told Lifesitenews.
He said that one of the factors helping married people do better financially than cohabiting or single people is that they manage their money in a better way. For example, the cohabiting man is less likely than the married man to hand over his pay to the woman he lives with, for banking and settling household expenses. The cohabiting man is very aware that the woman he lives with is not his wife and is reluctant to allow this non-wife to manage his money. “It’s curious that cohabiting women are more likely to have to work but are more likely to live in poverty,” said Stanton.
Meanwhile, the married man is more likely to be given a job than the cohabiting or single man because employers know that married men tend to be more stable workers.
“When you’re married, your wife reminds you that you have to stick with your unfulfilling job until you have a new one,” said Stanton. “Married men settle down; unmarried men don’t settled down. This is shown time and time again in the [research] literature.”
Stanton argued against the idea that young men no longer want to marry, fearing marriage leads straight to divorce and financial ruin. “Most young men do want to get married,” he told LifeSiteNews. “If they could wave a magic wand to make it happen, they would.”
The problem is that marriage intimidates contemporary young men--and in today’s world, where more women than men graduate from college,“there’s not a lot going for them.” Stanton thinks that contemporary young men are intimidated by “strong, capable women.” Meanwhile, he said, young women are just as afraid of divorce. Stanton says that the thought “I don’t want to fail at marriage like my parents did” is what leads young adults to cohabit rather than marry.
Stanton thinks women are compromising on the quality of men they marry or live with. However, there is reason to believe the married men will improve. “The irony,” Stanton told LifeSiteNews, “is that with so many [successful, married] men, it was their marriage that made them what they became.” A man who isn’t married by his late twenties hasn’t been developed by marriage and family.
“Marriage transforms men more than it transforms women,” Stanton told LifeSiteNews. “Women insisting that men become good husbands and fathers make the change.”
Exactly. Women had the power all along. Take that, feminist's.
DesertRose
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Interesting view:
DesertRose
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Aren't love and 'romance with all its baggage' different creatures?
Surely they are not synonymous?
I would put forth that some women are motivated by love no matter what age.
Surely they are not synonymous?
I would put forth that some women are motivated by love no matter what age.
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llleopard
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I think they are very different. I don't 'get' traditional romance at all. Never have. And I suck at doing 'romantic' gestures because I don't understand them ( aspergers is a wonderful thing) but I do love, loyalty, commitment, kindness, compromise, communication and dedication really well. Rhino accepts me how I am, and has changed his definition of romance to what works- ie taking me on a date to catch flies for my frogs makes more sense than wasting money on flowers or fancy food that I don't want.Aren't love and 'romance with all its baggage' different creatures?
Surely they are not synonymous?
I would put forth that some women are motivated by love no matter what age.
DesertRose
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To me that is the definition of romance. Doing the things the other would enjoy.
Karlysymon
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Inside America's Billion- Dollar Divorce industry
DesertRose
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At appears that negative media (movies etc) and (usually) improper advice from the modern priesthood (i.e psychologists) as well as vulture mediation or the lack thereof by lawyers leads to marital breakdowns.
I am sure that there are other causes. What else is breaking down families?
Why do some treat their friends and co-workers better than they their spouses?
I was really surprised and saddened that someone had to write this book. The topic should have been a given.
The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands
by Laura C. Schlessinger
Click here for ordering information.
Introduction
"As a man, I can tell you our needs are simple. We want to be fed, we want our kids mothered, and we want lovin'."
Vince
"Men are only interested in two things: If I'm not horny, make me a sandwich."
John
I am a thirty-seven-year-old man who has seen quite a bit in life, and I can offer this to your search for how to treat a man. We are men, not dumb-dumbs, psychics, or one bit unromantic. We need only clear communication, appreciation, honest love, and respect. This will be repaid by laying the moon and stars at your feet for your pleasure. There is no need to 'work' a man to get what you want. We live to take care of a wife, family, and home. Just remember that we are men, and know that our needs are simple but not to be ignored. A good man is hard to find, not to keep."
Dan
"A good man is hard to find, not to keep." That sentence should really make you stop and think. As a radio talk-show host/psychotherapist, I've got to tell you how remarkably true and sad it is that so many women struggle to hold on to some jerk, keep giving an abusive or philandering man yet another chance, have unprotected sex with some guy while barely knowing his last name, agree to shack up and risk making babies with some opportunist or loser, all in a pathetic version of a pursuit for love, but will resent the hell out of treating a decent, hardworking, caring husband with the thoughtfulness, attention, respect, and affection he needs to be content.
It boggles my mind.
What further puts me in boggle overdrive is how seemingly oblivious and insensitive many women are to how destructive they are being to their men and consequently to their marriages. Women will call me asking me if it's alright to go off on extended vacations "without him" when they want some freedom or R&R, or if it's okay to cut him off from sex because they're annoyed about something or just too tired from their busy day, or if they really have to make him a dinner when he gets home from work because it's just too tedious to plan meals, or if it's okay to keep stuff from him (like family or financial issues) because his input is unnecessary, or if they're really obligated to spend time with his family (in-laws or stepkids), or if they really have to show interest in his hobbies when they're bored silly by them, or -- well, you get the idea.
Let me relate the specific call that prompted me to write this book. Annette is thirty-five, her husband is thirty-nine, and they have a one-year-old son. She is a stay-at-home mom who just doesn't enjoy cooking and doesn't feel it's useful to spend a lot of time doing it. She called wondering if that was detrimental or not to her child. Right away I was alerted to her lack of concern about the needs or desires of her husband -- you know, the guy who slays dragons for her and their child every day. In order to really get a feel for this caller, you'll have to imagine the completely hostile and disdainful manner in which she spoke.
Dr. Laura: What do you do for food?
Annette: We eat peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches.
Dr. Laura: That's not healthy three times a day.
Annette: No, he's [the child] not eating it three times a day.
Dr. Laura: What do you eat for dinner?
Annette: Well, he's still breast-feeding at one year old.
Dr. Laura: What do the adults in your house eat for dinner?
Annette: My husband might eat beef enchiladas from the freezer, and I might eat cereal or cottage cheese. My husband doesn't much like what I cook.
Dr. Laura: That's not really a balanced, healthy diet. Are you intentionally making awful things that he won't eat or is he some kind of ogre?
Annette: (Sarcastically) No, I'm just not a good cook. [What you can't read is her disdainful, hostile tone.]
Dr. Laura: Okay, Annette, being a better cook is easy to come by. All you do is take a class or get a book of recipes. I wonder if you're intentionally undermining his enjoyment of a home-cooked meal so that you simply don't have to do it. Let me tell you what is detrimental to your child. Dinnertime turns out to be one of the most important functions of a family in terms of a child bonding with parents, their ability to communicate and feel close to their parents -- all of which supports their self-esteem.
The dinner table is a most important aspect of that bonding. That is the routine time when the family sits down, says their prayers, and spends that pleasant time enjoying their meal together and talking. So, if that means you have to do what you don't like, so be it. Or did you plan to teach your son that when he doesn't enjoy something, he doesn't have to do it at all, or he doesn't have to do it right? In which case you are going to have a child growing up to be a monster.
There are a lot of things we all don't enjoy doing, but they are part of the rigor of life and they are a part of our obligations in our various roles. To be people of integrity, we have to follow through whether or not we enjoy something. So, if you are at home, I think it is important for you to make the effort to prepare pleasant dinners because I think that's part of the joy and comfort for your family. Put in the effort. If your husband can eat frozen, prepackaged Mexican food, with all those spices, it means he has a pretty open-minded stomach -- so you must be going far out of your way to mess with him.
I don't understand that hostility, especially from a woman who has a one-year-old child. The ability for you to maintain a safe and nurturing home for that child largely depends on the quality and existence of your marriage. I'd expect you to make more of an effort. Most of the women who complain that they are not getting what they want from their husbands should stop and look at how disrespectful and disdainful they are of them. They should also look at what they put their time and energy into at the expense of him and their marriage. It would be a stunner for them to realize that they try harder to impress strangers than they try to impress the person who is supposed to be the most important to them. As one listener, Gary, says:
"A husband is like a horse. At the end of the day he is usually rode hard and put away sweaty. Like in the movies, if his master drives and beats him, he'll go just so far before bucking and rebelling.
If you love him, if you coax him, he'll drive himself till his heart explodes before he will let down his master. He'll give himself to death for the one he loves.
Which way should women handle a man?"
I have never gotten a complaint from a male listener in twenty-five years on the radio over my assertion that men are very simple creatures. They agree. I have explained time and again on my radio program that men are borne of women and spend the rest of their lives yearning for a woman's acceptance and approval. Unless you've got a man with a frank mental or personality disorder (the exception, not the rule), men admittedly are putty in the hands of a woman they love. Give him direct communication, respect, appreciation, food, and good lovin', and he'll do just about anything you wish -- foolish or not.
With one particular caller, Sandy, I pushed this agenda through to a successful conclusion -- but not without a lot of sweat on my part and resistance on Sandy's part.
Sandy: My husband and I have a horrible relationship.
Dr. Laura: And why is that, I wonder.
Sandy: He says I'm too headstrong . . . but I think we are both too headstrong for each other.
Dr. Laura: He says you are too headstrong. And what does that mean? Sandy: He always tells me I like to take over situations -- that I like to control situations and that I go around him when we should discuss these things together. I just go ahead and do it myself.
Dr. Laura: So, why do you do that?
Excerpted from The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Laura C. Schlessinger .
I am sure that there are other causes. What else is breaking down families?
Why do some treat their friends and co-workers better than they their spouses?
I was really surprised and saddened that someone had to write this book. The topic should have been a given
.The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands
by Laura C. Schlessinger
Click here for ordering information.
Introduction
"As a man, I can tell you our needs are simple. We want to be fed, we want our kids mothered, and we want lovin'."
Vince
"Men are only interested in two things: If I'm not horny, make me a sandwich."
John
I am a thirty-seven-year-old man who has seen quite a bit in life, and I can offer this to your search for how to treat a man. We are men, not dumb-dumbs, psychics, or one bit unromantic. We need only clear communication, appreciation, honest love, and respect. This will be repaid by laying the moon and stars at your feet for your pleasure. There is no need to 'work' a man to get what you want. We live to take care of a wife, family, and home. Just remember that we are men, and know that our needs are simple but not to be ignored. A good man is hard to find, not to keep."
Dan
"A good man is hard to find, not to keep." That sentence should really make you stop and think. As a radio talk-show host/psychotherapist, I've got to tell you how remarkably true and sad it is that so many women struggle to hold on to some jerk, keep giving an abusive or philandering man yet another chance, have unprotected sex with some guy while barely knowing his last name, agree to shack up and risk making babies with some opportunist or loser, all in a pathetic version of a pursuit for love, but will resent the hell out of treating a decent, hardworking, caring husband with the thoughtfulness, attention, respect, and affection he needs to be content.
It boggles my mind.
What further puts me in boggle overdrive is how seemingly oblivious and insensitive many women are to how destructive they are being to their men and consequently to their marriages. Women will call me asking me if it's alright to go off on extended vacations "without him" when they want some freedom or R&R, or if it's okay to cut him off from sex because they're annoyed about something or just too tired from their busy day, or if they really have to make him a dinner when he gets home from work because it's just too tedious to plan meals, or if it's okay to keep stuff from him (like family or financial issues) because his input is unnecessary, or if they're really obligated to spend time with his family (in-laws or stepkids), or if they really have to show interest in his hobbies when they're bored silly by them, or -- well, you get the idea.
Let me relate the specific call that prompted me to write this book. Annette is thirty-five, her husband is thirty-nine, and they have a one-year-old son. She is a stay-at-home mom who just doesn't enjoy cooking and doesn't feel it's useful to spend a lot of time doing it. She called wondering if that was detrimental or not to her child. Right away I was alerted to her lack of concern about the needs or desires of her husband -- you know, the guy who slays dragons for her and their child every day. In order to really get a feel for this caller, you'll have to imagine the completely hostile and disdainful manner in which she spoke.
Dr. Laura: What do you do for food?
Annette: We eat peanut-butter-and-jelly sandwiches.
Dr. Laura: That's not healthy three times a day.
Annette: No, he's [the child] not eating it three times a day.
Dr. Laura: What do you eat for dinner?
Annette: Well, he's still breast-feeding at one year old.
Dr. Laura: What do the adults in your house eat for dinner?
Annette: My husband might eat beef enchiladas from the freezer, and I might eat cereal or cottage cheese. My husband doesn't much like what I cook.
Dr. Laura: That's not really a balanced, healthy diet. Are you intentionally making awful things that he won't eat or is he some kind of ogre?
Annette: (Sarcastically) No, I'm just not a good cook. [What you can't read is her disdainful, hostile tone.]
Dr. Laura: Okay, Annette, being a better cook is easy to come by. All you do is take a class or get a book of recipes. I wonder if you're intentionally undermining his enjoyment of a home-cooked meal so that you simply don't have to do it. Let me tell you what is detrimental to your child. Dinnertime turns out to be one of the most important functions of a family in terms of a child bonding with parents, their ability to communicate and feel close to their parents -- all of which supports their self-esteem.
The dinner table is a most important aspect of that bonding. That is the routine time when the family sits down, says their prayers, and spends that pleasant time enjoying their meal together and talking. So, if that means you have to do what you don't like, so be it. Or did you plan to teach your son that when he doesn't enjoy something, he doesn't have to do it at all, or he doesn't have to do it right? In which case you are going to have a child growing up to be a monster.
There are a lot of things we all don't enjoy doing, but they are part of the rigor of life and they are a part of our obligations in our various roles. To be people of integrity, we have to follow through whether or not we enjoy something. So, if you are at home, I think it is important for you to make the effort to prepare pleasant dinners because I think that's part of the joy and comfort for your family. Put in the effort. If your husband can eat frozen, prepackaged Mexican food, with all those spices, it means he has a pretty open-minded stomach -- so you must be going far out of your way to mess with him.
I don't understand that hostility, especially from a woman who has a one-year-old child. The ability for you to maintain a safe and nurturing home for that child largely depends on the quality and existence of your marriage. I'd expect you to make more of an effort. Most of the women who complain that they are not getting what they want from their husbands should stop and look at how disrespectful and disdainful they are of them. They should also look at what they put their time and energy into at the expense of him and their marriage. It would be a stunner for them to realize that they try harder to impress strangers than they try to impress the person who is supposed to be the most important to them. As one listener, Gary, says:
"A husband is like a horse. At the end of the day he is usually rode hard and put away sweaty. Like in the movies, if his master drives and beats him, he'll go just so far before bucking and rebelling.
If you love him, if you coax him, he'll drive himself till his heart explodes before he will let down his master. He'll give himself to death for the one he loves.
Which way should women handle a man?"
I have never gotten a complaint from a male listener in twenty-five years on the radio over my assertion that men are very simple creatures. They agree. I have explained time and again on my radio program that men are borne of women and spend the rest of their lives yearning for a woman's acceptance and approval. Unless you've got a man with a frank mental or personality disorder (the exception, not the rule), men admittedly are putty in the hands of a woman they love. Give him direct communication, respect, appreciation, food, and good lovin', and he'll do just about anything you wish -- foolish or not.
With one particular caller, Sandy, I pushed this agenda through to a successful conclusion -- but not without a lot of sweat on my part and resistance on Sandy's part.
Sandy: My husband and I have a horrible relationship.
Dr. Laura: And why is that, I wonder.
Sandy: He says I'm too headstrong . . . but I think we are both too headstrong for each other.
Dr. Laura: He says you are too headstrong. And what does that mean? Sandy: He always tells me I like to take over situations -- that I like to control situations and that I go around him when we should discuss these things together. I just go ahead and do it myself.
Dr. Laura: So, why do you do that?
Excerpted from The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Laura C. Schlessinger .