Judge Jeanine: Trump is fulfilling End Times prophecy!

[Vytas]

I understand better what you have in mind now. It's impossible to predict, anticipate...Even with one person it's impossible to predict variables...You read actual research about trying to predict that based on probability? They got some ambition, good luck with that... We only can state that if person is exposed to something depending from what it is either he got some energy stolen or his mind is affected like in your example about sex...Anyways maybe you still have a link about that research? Im curious.

Theory of probability guarantees that 50% of the time it will be true to itself and be right 50 % of the time another 50% included for exceptions which happens around 50% of the time... Learned that while playing poker...

 

[rainerann]

I understand better what you have in mind now. It's impossible to predict, anticipate...Even with one person it's impossible to predict variables...You read actual research about trying to predict that based on probability? They got some ambition, good luck with that... We only can state that if person is exposed to something depending from what it is either he got some energy stolen or his mind is affected like in your example about sex...Anyways maybe you still have a link about that research? Im curious.

Theory of probability guarantees that 50% of the time it will be true to itself and be right 50 % of the time another 50% included for exceptions which happens around 50% of the time... Learned that while playing poker...

This is all the information I have on researching this because it is my independent research that I play around with like a hobby. I have more information that I believe supports what I am saying, but it is not directly related and it doesn't specifically reference the subject of predictive programming as far as I know. There are a lot of things I haven't read so maybe I have a twin out there who has been researching the same thing.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

That is exactly the point. There is no way that you can guarantee 100% of the time that someone will follow something subconsciously, whether they notice it or not. The hypnotizability of people is a variable in and of itself, so you are missing how this situation becomes a problem of probability.

What you actually have is a whole population exposed to the same media, and a certain percentage of the population have a 100% chance of ignoring the effect that the subliminal had on them. Another percentage will notice this and won't be affected and another percentage will store this as data that will accumulate with increased exposure.

Our minds are continually collecting data and making predictions in the subconscious, so trying to access a person's subconscious mind is attempting to control the way they are making predictions with data that is accumulated through observations made in different states of consciousness that are constantly changing between waking and sleeping.

For example, the sexual subliminal in the Disney movies could be said to only serve to increase the exposure, because there is a certain probability associated with increasing the exposure of sexual situations to increasing sexual behavior. By increasing the exposure, you increase the probability, and there are several nefarious writings that are exposed in conspiracy circles that say that oversexualization is a goal of TPTB. However, you are only going to promote oversexualization for a certain percentage of people with a mechanism like this, and to increase the probability that this effect will result in increased sexual activity, you will have to increase the exposure.

So choice and frequency have to be controlled because these are the only two variables you can really control in order to initiate predictive programming, which is not the study of chance. It is the study of patterns and the way you can use observations of patterns to make predictions.

There is nothing inherently capable of programming someone to behave a certain way. People may confuse the capacity to create a dissociative state with the capacity to initiate exposure to an image that will control their future decision-making process, but they are not the same thing. You can flood the market with prescription painkillers that will make people more likely to succumb to suggestion, but only a certain percentage will.

Therefore, because the probability that drugs will produce an amiable state that is willing to take orders in only a certain percentage, other mechanisms need to be introduced to cover the other variables that influence the probability that someone will make a decision according to the will of another person.

Therefore, there is nothing inherently capable of predicting what a person will do. No symbol, no drug, no nothing has the power to do this 100% of the time. It doesn't matter if it is subconscious even because there is still no certain mechanism that they will be able to affect a person's behavior as an independent entity absent of other variables 100% of the time. Therefore, predictive programming is always a study of probability.

Basically, anytime a decision is present, a study of probability could be done. It is present in so many situations that the subject becomes too broad to be understood. I only noticed this when I realized that it seemed funny for so many mathematicians to study a mathematical subject that is taught as early as prealgebra.

However, this is not because understanding probability is simple, it is because this is how we are limited in our understanding of probability. It has essentially never really graduated in the same way as our understanding of motion.

You and Vytas have a really interesting discussion going on here, seems pretty respectful of each other as well....... cool!

 

[Thunderian]

Let me give you a run down from what I understood about Cenk's 11 points (your should watch the whole video):

Are you saying he is lying about the prophecies of war near the Euphrates (Iraq region) that have been supported by evangelicals backing Bush?

I feel like you don't understand my last post, because I addressed this, I'm sure. Please let me know you've understood what I'm saying, because if we can't move past this point, there's no reason to go on discussing this.

The prophecies of war in the Euphrates don't take place until well into the final seven years. No one who believes in the prophecies -- people like me -- would support any war in that region based on our belief in those prophecies. The prophecies have nothing to do with us, and they don't take place until years after we are gone. I know of not a single person who ever cheered on a war because they thought it was going to make Jesus come back any faster. Are you able to understand that?

The disasters in Palestine including the West-bank that have been aided and abetted by US armaments and pro-Israeli policies?
That Israel is being built up so that they can war against Muslims (check)
That it appears that you worship a God who will kill all humans that are not from your select group which will be taken up at the right moment to heaven?
That Israel goes to war with Muslims and will take the Temple mount/Masjid al Aqsa?
They cherry on top of this cake has to be number 1. That the people who recognize Israel are the anti-Christ. (Agreed, they are definitely anti-Christian.)
Then and this has got to be the icing on the cake, that you also expect Israel to get destroyed by Russia and Iran.

Please tell me this: Who do you think knows more about what I believe? You, Cenk Uygur, or me? You guys have it all wrong.

Knowing me as you do, do you think that if I actually believed what Cenk and you think I do, I would be shy about saying so? So how ridiculous is it to insist I believe something I say that I don't?

It appears that many of these prophecies are actually being implemented by the US government on behalf of 25% Zionists in the US.

Do you just straight up not believe me when I tell you that no one who believes these prophecies believes they can anything to affect them? Do you really even care about discussing this?

Own it and tell the truth. You have twisted your faith and have interpreted you prophecies to support discord and corruption on earth.
This is shameful and has nothing to do with how people perceive Christianity as a faith.

I am not making these things happen, and I am not cheering for a war. I don't believe at all in the way that Cenk is interpreting the Bible, and neither does anyone else.

Prophet Jesus peace be upon him would not support these actions they have nothing to do with righteousness.

Jesus Christ is the one who told us these things would occur. We can't make them happen.

 

[Thunderian]

Excellent point. So why do the Zionists keep trying? Even their own, ultra-orthodox scholars have stated that Israel should not even exist now. That is not to say I dont support Jewish people having a homeland, even in Israel. But there is a clear disconnect between what Jewish law and prophecy dictates and what the Zionists are trying to accomplish..... even though what they are working towards is entirely out of their own scriptural laws and prophecy.

No one except God is working toward anything. No Zionist has ever tried to fulfill any prophecy. You can't understand prophecy and Zionism, know current events, and still think any of the things that you have posted above. If you're interested in learning exactly what I believe, I would love to tell you, but please stop this nonsense.

 

[DesertRose]

Do not make it personal. I could care less what you guys believe however when your beliefs are implemented by Hagee and Jeffress types it becomes A CONCERN FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD COMMUNITY.
Some of you support these injustices and some of you push these policies forth. There is implementation of the prophecies through US FOREIGN POLICY IN THE MIDDLE EAST, BY PEOPLE like Hagee and Jeffress.
You should dispense with these unChristian or anti-Christian clergy and politicians that are pushing these poisons onto the world they are supporting injustice.
Jesus peace be upon him would never support nor push forth these prophecies.
Let readers decide for themselves!

THE WAR ON CHRISTIANITY, PART II: THE ABOMINATION AND BLASPHEMY OF CHRISTIAN ZIONISM

https://jamesperloff.com/2016/08/31/the-war-on-christianity-part-ii-the-abomination-and-blasphemy-of-christian-zionism/

THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT AND THE RISE OF AMERICAN FASCISM

By -- CHRIS HEDGES

Excerpt:

CHRIST THE AVENGER

"The Christian Right finds its ideological justification in a narrow segment of the Gospel, in particular the letters of the Apostle Paul, especially the story of Paul's conversion on the road to Damascus in the Book of Acts. It draws heavily from the book of Revelations and the Gospel of John. These books share an apocalyptic theology. The Book of Revelations is the only time in the Gospels where Jesus sanctions violence, offering up a vision of Christ as the head of a great and murderous army of heavenly avengers. Martin Luther found the God portrayed in Revelations so hateful and cruel he put the book in the appendix of his German translation of the Bible.

These books rarely speak about Christ's message of love, forgiveness and compassion. They focus on the doom and destruction that will befall unbelievers and the urgent need for personal salvation. The world is divided between good and evil, between those who act as agents of God and those who act as agents of Satan. The Jesus of the other three Gospels, the Jesus who turned the other cheek and embraced his enemies, an idea that was radical and startling in the ancient Roman world, is purged in the narrative selected by the Christian Right.

The cult of masculinity pervades the ideology. Feminism and homosexuality are social forces, believers are told, that have rendered the American male physically and spiritually impotent. Jesus is portrayed as a man of action, casting out demons, battling the Anti-Christ, attacking hypocrites and castigating the corrupt. This cult of masculinity brings with it the glorification of strength, violence and vengeance. It turns Christ into a Rambo-like figure; indeed depictions of Jesus within the movement often show a powerfully built man wielding a huge sword.

This image of Christ as warrior is appealing to many within the movement. The loss of manufacturing jobs, lack of affordable health care, negligible opportunities for education and poor job security has left many millions of Americans locked out. This ideology is attractive because it offers them the hope of power and revenge. It sanctifies their rage. It stokes the paranoia about the outside world maintained through bizarre conspiracy theories, many on display in Pat Robertson's book The New World Order. The book is a xenophobic rant that includes vicious attacks against the United Nations and numerous other international organizations. The abandonment of the working class has been crucial to the success of the movement. Only by reintegrating the working class into society through job creation, access to good education and health care can the Christian Right be effectively blunted. Revolutionary movements are built on the backs of an angry, disenfranchised laboring class. This one is no exception.

The depictions of violence that will befall non-believers are detailed, gruesome and brutal. It speaks to the rage many believers harbor and the thirst for revenge. This, in large part, accounts for the huge sales of the apocalyptic series by Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins. In their novel, Glorious Appearing, based on LaHaye's interpretation of Biblical Prophecies about the Second Coming, Christ eviscerates the flesh of millions of non-believers with the mere sound of his voice. There are long descriptions of horror, of how "the very words of the Lord had superheated their blood, causing it to burst through their veins and skin." Eyes disintegrate. Tongues melt. Flesh dissolves. The novel, part of The Left Behind series, are the best selling adult novels in the country. They preach holy war.

"Any teaching of peace prior to [Christ's] return is heresy." said televangelist James Robison.

Natural disasters, terrorist attacks, instability in Israel and even the fighting of Iraq are seen as signposts. The war in Iraq was predicted according to believers in the 9th chapter of the Book of Revelations where four angels "which are bound in the great river Euphrates will be released to slay the third part of men." The march towards global war, even nuclear war, is not to be feared but welcomed as the harbinger of the Second Coming. And leading the avenging armies is an angry, violent Messiah who dooms millions of non-believers to a horrible and painful death."

One more: Video by Real News Network:
Video also discusses CZ beliefs and foreign policy views (eye opening.
CAPTION UNDER VIDEO READS:
"The opening ceremony of the US Embassy in Jerusalem featured billionaire Sheldon Adelson and prominent far-right evangelical Christian leaders John Hagee and Robert Jeffress. We discuss the alliance between Trump, Netanyahu, and far-right extremists in both the US and Israel with journalists Max Blumenthal and Dan Cohen."

 

[TempestOfTempo]

No one except God is working toward anything. No Zionist has ever tried to fulfill any prophecy. You can't understand prophecy and Zionism, know current events, and still think any of the things that you have posted above. If you're interested in learning exactly what I believe, I would love to tell you, but please stop this nonsense.

Even if you and I have two separate beliefs on what is happening/will happen, there is no denying that many Zionists and their supporters are ACTIVELY trying to engage in the manmade, hurry-up-no-huddle offence fast track to end times prophecy. Some for apocalyptic prophesy fulfillment, some for worldly power or ideals..... but when they admit this is what they are doing, I take their word for it..... especially when they very publicly back up that rhetoric with actions.

 

[Thunderian]

Even if you and I have two separate beliefs on what is happening/will happen, there is no denying that many Zionists and their supporters are ACTIVELY trying to engage in the manmade, hurry-up-no-huddle offence fast track to end times prophecy. Some for apocalyptic prophesy fulfillment, some for worldly power or ideals..... but when they admit this is what they are doing, I take their word for it..... especially when they very publicly back up that rhetoric with actions.

Can you please give me one example of a Christian Zionist saying or doing something to bring about Armageddon?

 

[TempestOfTempo]

Can you please give me one example of a Christian Zionist saying or doing something to bring about Armageddon?

"The origins of the movement can be traced to the early 19th century when a group of eccentric British Christian leaders began to lobby for Jewish restoration to Palestine as a necessary precondition for the return of Christ."

"(Christian Zionsts) propagates a worldview in which the Christian message is reduced to an ideology of empire, colonialism and militarism. In its extreme form, it places an emphasis on apocalyptic events leading to the end of history rather than living Christ’s love and justice today."

"Jerusalem is regarded as the eternal and exclusive capital of the Jews, and cannot be shared with the Palestinians. Therefore, strategically, Christian Zionists have lobbied the US Administration to relocate its embassy to Jerusalem and thereby ensure that Jerusalem is recognised as the capital of Israel."

"Christian Zionists offer varying degrees of support for organisations such as the Jewish Temple Mount Faithful who are committed to destroying the Dome of the Rock and rebuilding the Jewish Temple on the Haram Al-Sharif (Noble sanctuary of Al-Aqsa)."

"Within the Christian Zionist worldview, Palestinians are regarded as alien residents in Israel. Many Christian Zionists are reluctant even to acknowledge Palestinians exist as a distinct people, claiming that they emigrated to Israel from surrounding Arab nations for economic reasons after Israel had become prosperous. A fear and deep-seated hatred of Islam also pervades their dualistic Manichean theology. Christian Zionists have little or no interest in the existence of indigenous Arab Christians despite their continuity with the early church."

Hagge , Robertson and their ilk are all-in for this it seems.......

 

[Thunderian]

"The origins of the movement can be traced to the early 19th century when a group of eccentric British Christian leaders began to lobby for Jewish restoration to Palestine as a necessary precondition for the return of Christ."

"(Christian Zionsts) propagates a worldview in which the Christian message is reduced to an ideology of empire, colonialism and militarism. In its extreme form, it places an emphasis on apocalyptic events leading to the end of history rather than living Christ’s love and justice today."

"Jerusalem is regarded as the eternal and exclusive capital of the Jews, and cannot be shared with the Palestinians. Therefore, strategically, Christian Zionists have lobbied the US Administration to relocate its embassy to Jerusalem and thereby ensure that Jerusalem is recognised as the capital of Israel."

"Christian Zionists offer varying degrees of support for organisations such as the Jewish Temple Mount Faithful who are committed to destroying the Dome of the Rock and rebuilding the Jewish Temple on the Haram Al-Sharif (Noble sanctuary of Al-Aqsa)."

"Within the Christian Zionist worldview, Palestinians are regarded as alien residents in Israel. Many Christian Zionists are reluctant even to acknowledge Palestinians exist as a distinct people, claiming that they emigrated to Israel from surrounding Arab nations for economic reasons after Israel had become prosperous. A fear and deep-seated hatred of Islam also pervades their dualistic Manichean theology. Christian Zionists have little or no interest in the existence of indigenous Arab Christians despite their continuity with the early church."

Hagge , Robertson and their ilk are all-in for this it seems.......

No, not more regurgitated mischaracterisation of Zionist beliefs.

I keep hearing about Christian Zionists who are starting wars to bring about Bible prophecy. If that's true, I want an example.

There are lots of Christians who don't believe Bible prophecy, and there are lots of Zionists who aren't Christians.

 

[DesertRose]

There are lots of Christians who don't believe Bible prophecy, and there are lots of Zionists who aren't Christians.

Yes those Christians who see how wrong these Bible prophecies are and how they cater to OT sentiments are against this.

and there are lots of Zionists who aren't Christians.

Yes there are Zionist who are not Christians and whatever path they come from they are completely misguided.
The soul of humanity is at stake in Palestine and the occupied territories. Will you stay human and decent or will you willfully support oppression?
Only the most deluded brainwashed Zionists will talk themselves out of seeing the gross injustices happening there.
Thankfully more people from all religions are seeing how wrong this is!
I am happy to post this video about a protest by the Jewish community:

Caption under the video reads:

Activists from Jewish Voice for Peace NYC and Jews Say No! held a Gaza solidarity protest outside the office of Senators Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand, condemning US support for Israel's massacre of Palestinian protesters - Ben Norton reports.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

No, not more regurgitated mischaracterisation of Zionist beliefs.

I keep hearing about Christian Zionists who are starting wars to bring about Bible prophecy. If that's true, I want an example.

There are lots of Christians who don't believe Bible prophecy, and there are lots of Zionists who aren't Christians.

Im just going by what these people present as/for themselves. Im not stating that I am an authority on Christian bible prophesy and obviously the majority of true Zionists are going to be non-Christian (they are going to be Jewish). But the Christian Zionists aint exactly hiding their actions and support on this front either though.

 

[Thunderian]

The soul of humanity is at stake in Palestine and the occupied territories

That seems really dramatic. What possible effect could a land dispute have on the soul of humanity?

 

[Thunderian]

Im just going by what these people present as/for themselves. Im not stating that I am an authority on Christian bible prophesy and obviously the majority of true Zionists are going to be non-Christian (they are going to be Jewish). But the Christian Zionists aint exactly hiding their actions and support on this front either though.

I'm no authority, either, but as the only fundamental, evangelical, Zionist Christian in this thread, I think I know more about Christian Zionist beliefs than anyone else does here, or anyone else who has been referenced.

I don't care what you believe regarding Bible prophecy, but please believe that I don't support starting any wars for the sake of Jesus Christ's return, and I have never come across any Christian Zionist who does.

 

[DesertRose]

That seems really dramatic. What possible effect could a land dispute have on the soul of humanity?

The acceptance of mass murder, torture and sanctions deadens souls.
I am glad not all Christians think like these doomsdayers.
It appears that you whitewash their crimes. Unfortunately.

]https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/what-happens-when-pro-trump-christians-weaponize-the-bible-1.6097388
What Happens When pro-Trump Christians Weaponize the Bible
U.S. 'pro-Israel' evangelicals who declare the president enacted God's will, by moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem, may want to consider the terrible historical cost of a selective and literalist use of the Bible

James Martin 18.05.2018 16:03 Updated: 4:04 PM
Why would Israeli Jews welcome aid from Christians whose support of their country is predicated on their stated desire for all Jews to convert to Christianity?

And why would some American Christian evangelicals highlight passages from the Hebrew Scriptures to support President Donald Trump’s stance on Israel, while downplaying passages from the Gospels that do not support Mr. Trump’s policies?

I don’t have a complete answer to either of those questions. Nor am I an expert on either U.S. or Israeli politics. But I do have answers about the selective use of the Bible by Christians seeking to support President Donald Trump and, in turn, Israel’s current government.
And the key word is “selective.”

It’s become common in some Christian evangelical circles to paint Donald Trump as an instrument of God’s desires. Some American Christians (and even some Jews) have even likened him to King Cyrus, the Persian King who conquered Babylon in 539 BCE, freed the Jewish people and returned them to Jerusalem where they would rebuild the Temple. Much of his story described in the Second Book of Chronicles and Book of Ezra.
The thinking is that even if Donald Trump is not a perfect Christian (as Cyrus was not Jewish) he can still be used as part of God’s divine plan. One can use this interpretation to justify either voting for Donald Trump (i.e., he will restore the U.S. to power) or supporting his move of the U.S. Embassy to from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem (i.e., he is helping to restore Israel to power).

Another popular use of the Bible, or at least broadly biblical themes, touted by some evangelicals of the religious right who support the State of Israel, is known as “dispensationalism.”

The Protestant writer Jonathan Merritt summarizes this belief as follows: "When the last days arrive, God will draw the Jewish people back to Israel where they will rebuild the temple and eventually accept Jesus as the rightful Messiah. This will trigger the return and reign of Jesus."
Thus, the Bible is read not simply as a record of God’s activity in the past, but as an accurate predictor of the future, in this case the “End Times.” Dispensationalists point to, among other texts, the Books of Isaiah, Ezekiel and Revelation to support their beliefs.
Needless to say, the idea that all Jews are destined for a willing conversion to Christianity is not what most Jews believe. At least none I know.
Such beliefs set these evangelicals at odds with the many American Christians who do not see Donald Trump as God’s chosen instrument, do not expect the Jewish people to convert to Christianity, who support the human rights of the Palestinian people (and simultaneously back Israel’s right to exist) and who do not support the recent transfer of the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem.

Likewise, these evangelical beliefs may influence one’s appreciation of Jerusalem specifically, by the use of biblical passages that don't promote an inclusivist approach, but an exclusivist one. That may lead to conceptions conflicting with, for example, St. John Paul II’s vision of Jerusalem as the locus of divine encounter not just for some, but for all humanity, as articulated in his 1984 letter Redemptionis anno.
How could Christians be so at odds?

One answer is that most of these evangelical beliefs depend on a highly selective use of Bible passages, used in some cases sincerely, in other cases merely to justify one’s own political beliefs. For one could just as easily point to other passages from the Old and New Testaments that Donald Trump has clearly not "fulfilled."
Perhaps the most obvious are the many passages from the Hebrew Scriptures commanding God’s people to care for not only the poor, but also the stranger: migrants, refugees and aliens. "You must not oppress the resident alien, for you were once aliens yourselves in the Land of Egypt," says the Book of Exodus.
In the New Testament, Jesus repeatedly tells his followers to care, again, for not only the poor but the stranger. The parable of the Good Samaritan in Luke’s Gospel is offered, at least in part, to encourage his disciples to care for the "stranger." And in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus says that caring for the “least” among us, including the stranger, is equivalent to caring for Jesus himself: "I was a stranger and you did not welcome me."

There is not much need for interpretation here. And not much chance that Mr. Trump, no matter what your political or theological leanings, could be seen as hewing to these verses.

Beyond the highly selective use of Scripture is the problem of literalism. Some Christians take the Bible literally. (Catholics do not.) The problem with a strictly literal reading is twofold.
To begin with, some parts of the Bible were written in highly poetic and metaphorical styles, referring to people, places and events of the writers’ times, not our own.

Also, the Bible isn’t consistent on certain things. There are two creation narratives in the Book of Genesis, which differ significantly. The most obvious examples in the New Testament are the stories of Jesus’s birth: they differ considerably in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke, and in the Gospel of Mark and John they simply do not exist. Even some of the names of the Twelve Apostles don’t match from Gospel to Gospel. And efforts to "harmonize" these varying passages usually fall short.
The key to an intelligent use of the Bible for believers is, first, to read the Scriptures with an appreciation for the historical context in which they were written. And, second, to have an appreciation for the overall themes and values consistently repeated in the Bible.
And what are these themes? Among them: God loves each of us, desires the well-being of each person, and asks us to care for the poor, the sick, and the stranger. A few of the overarching values of the Bible are faith, love, mercy, compassion, forgiveness and care for the poor and marginalized.
Any use of the Bible that does not incorporate these themes should be suspect, as is any obvious "cherry picking" of Bible verses that does not take into account those values.

Christians might add a third key for using the Bible: avoiding the temptation to deploy the Bible to support your own preconceived political ideas.

The Bible should not be weaponized. It is not a book, or series of books, from which one should select verses to exclude or marginalize anyone, much less promote violence against any person or group of people. Some of the worst sins of religious believers, especially Christians, have been the result of a selective and literalist use of Bible passages.

The Bible is also not a political cudgel. Rather, it is a divinely inspired text, and an inspiration for Christians and Jews to work together for another of the great themes of the Hebrew and Christian Scriptures: shalom. And nowhere should that awareness be higher than when dealing with Jerusalem, the source of whose name is Ir Shalom, the City of Peace.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

I'm no authority, either, but as the only fundamental, evangelical, Zionist Christian in this thread, I think I know more about Christian Zionist beliefs than anyone else does here, or anyone else who has been referenced.

I don't care what you believe regarding Bible prophecy, but please believe that I don't support starting any wars for the sake of Jesus Christ's return, and I have never come across any Christian Zionist who does.

I accept that you seem to take a morally correct standpoint for which to base your Zionist Christian perspective. It seems you wish for resolution without bloodshed. However I dont think the rest of your movement has the same altruistic motives you display here. There is an incredibly corrupt and fraudulent culture that has evolved around the Christian Zionist moment, similar as has happened around much of the activity regarding the practitioners of my faith. I try to call out our own shortcomings and failures more than those of others, and I hope you are willing to do the same for your side as well.

 

[Thunderian]

I accept that you seem to take a morally correct standpoint for which to base your Zionist Christian perspective. It seems you wish for resolution without bloodshed. However I dont think the rest of your movement has the same altruistic motives you display here. There is an incredibly corrupt and fraudulent culture that has evolved around the Christian Zionist moment, similar as has happened around much of the activity regarding the practitioners of my faith. I try to call out our own shortcomings and failures more than those of others, and I hope you are willing to do the same for your side as well.

Point out the corrupt frauds who use Bible prophecy as an excuse to cheer on war and I will condemn them.

 

[TempestOfTempo]

I already have mentioned some. Do you consider Hagge and co. legitimate?

 

[Karlysymon]

Even if you and I have two separate beliefs on what is happening/will happen, there is no denying that many Zionists and their supporters are ACTIVELY trying to engage in the manmade, hurry-up-no-huddle offence fast track to end times prophecy. Some for apocalyptic prophesy fulfillment, some for worldly power or ideals..... but when they admit this is what they are doing, I take their word for it..... especially when they very publicly back up that rhetoric with actions.

And @DesertRose

I posted a vid in this thread that would greatly interest you. Great conversation (some of my favourite people BTW) but its thoroughly enjoyable if you are very familiar with the "who's who" in the evangelical world.

Just because "we" don't accept CZ's eschatological timeline, doesn't mean we don't believe in prophecies. We do. Its because we recognize and, are willing to accept, that there is or was an elaborate plan to hijack or twist the prophetic word and make it favorable for the political establishment's goals. You've seen this in your own faith (the black standard rising). We have an adversary, a master of counterfeits and his servants do the same. If you even believe, for a second, that the elites are satanists/luciferians, you can bet that whatever they are doing to benefit Israel is to further their master's plans.

A recent LifeWay poll found that some 80 percent of evangelicals believed that the creation of Israel in 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecy that will usher forth the return of Christ. The literal belief many of these things must happen before Jesus will return to reign on Earth is commonly known as “dispensational pre-millennialism.” This belief, popularized in Britain as a central theological tenet of the “Plymouth Brethren,”** is held, in some form, by millions of modern-day American evangelicals."

And....."the late American intellectual Gore Vidal whimsically observed that the practical result of that Dispensationalist theology was a “military build up that can never, ever cease until we have done battle for the Lord."

Is this part of that practical result? :
IDF has bullets for everyone. Because, going by that, iam guessing that when Jesus returns to reign, He'll want all of His land... “When we talk about the Holy Land, God’s promise of the Holy Land, we’re talking about real estate on both sides of the Jordan River."

So, it may seem defeatist but the Palestinian cause doesn't look promising to me, in the face of all that.

**Aleister Crowley also came out of that bunch.

To add...."Dallas Theological Seminary (DTS) is an evangelical theological seminary located in Dallas, Texas . It is known for popularizing the theological system known as Dispensationalism."

Just look at the alumni, and other people connected to the founder and this picture becomes clearer. Obviously, to you, a Muslim, these details aren't so important.

 

[Thunderian]

I already have mentioned some. Do you consider Hagge and co. legitimate?

I have never listened to John Hagee and I don't have a good opinion of him from what I know, but I'm not aware that he's ever started any wars.

Do you have some names and specific examples of Christian Zionists who have promoted or started wars based on their belief it will bring Jesus back sooner? Because otherwise it's just accusations based on misunderstanding, isn't it?