Imagine a world with shariah law.

[AspiringSoul]

What does Sharia law say about having green and purple hair and nose and lip rings and covering your body with tattoos etc. On a lighter note in Michigan or somewhere Muslims gained control of the city council and declared it against the law for any LGQBSWTF to be displayed on public property and now the woke liberals are saying that the Muslims have betrayed them claiming that they helped get them elected LOL.

truth is, muslim immigrants in the west owe a lot to the left.
im pissed off about Mohammad hijab and his like showing off their muslim machismo to the right.

why not just hold a balanced view?

 

[Daze]

What does Sharia law say about having green and purple hair and nose and lip rings and covering your body with tattoos etc. On a lighter note in Michigan or somewhere Muslims gained control of the city council and declared it against the law for any LGQBSWTF to be displayed on public property and now the woke liberals are saying that the Muslims have betrayed them claiming that they helped get them elected LOL.

Good questions and idk the answers. I do know there is such a thing as a haram (forbidden) haircut.

This is one of them.




Idk about the rings as they are not permanent. But if its not haram then its makrooh, which means disliked.
Tattoos are haram as the prophet (saw) cursed the one who gives the tattoo and the one who gets it.

Idk the punishments for any of these, assuming there are any. Muslims generally agree with Christians on this in that you should treat the body as a temple and that means don't desecrate it with body art and what not.

Of course all past sins are forgiven if one repents. Here's an example of a recent convert to Islam.





On a side note when i was looking for an image of that brother i seen this one.


The Arabic says "if God wills". I thought it was interesting because it includes the cross, yet "InshaAllah" is something Muslims say daily.

Just thought it was interesting because practically everyone here says Muslims worship a different god then Christians, yet that is clearly a Christian because of the cross with Allah's name on her back.

On a lighter note..

Yes, i have seen it. Homosexuals actually thought there was an alliance because of some self claimed scholars tried for years to build an alliance between Muslims and LGTV. Namely Yasir Qadhi and Omar Sulieman... ie, western Islam.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1670201832793075712

 

[Daze]

I'm for sure in favour of marrying young. But given that you also said it is age of deceit. I'm specifically talking about child marriage. There is no deception involving that. An average girl gets her period after the age of 10 , mostly 11. They are certainly can't handle giving birth let alone having sexual relation at that age. You are too idealistic when you say Nikkah protects.Even adults ruin each others lives on the name of marriage all the time. The another fundamental problem with child marriage is consent, I was dumb as hell when I was 9,most of us were. How can a child consent to let's suppose marry another child or a young adult. Our brain for sure develops fully after a certain age. I'm not advocating live in relationships here but I don't believe in marrying a child away either. Here at my side , child protection bill declares "16" as age of consent which somewhat make sense but still some dumb people marry their children younger due to cultural reason and no this isn't propaganda, its what I've seen and observed people exploit young people. No wonder why elites are after children because they are easy to groom.

When i say "age" of deceit, i mean this is the age of the dajjal. An age of liars on every corner where the truthful one is so rare he must be sought out.

I do think you are propagandized but it doesn't matter much. I know Muslims who are much farther from the path then you are.

Guess it doesn't matter because marriage is an archaic system in the modern age. We are surely not gonna see it improve before the messiah returns, its only gonna get worse and God knows best.

So its pointless for me to argue a 12 yr old boy marrying an 11 yr old girl when people at 20, 25 don't want to marry if you get my point.

Still, i stand by what God has designed. If it was harmful to carry a child at age 9, God never would have given the girl the ability to do so.

End of the day 1000 people intending harm can't touch you without His will, while a house fly can send you to the grave if He willed it.

You can't offer namaz If there are substances on the skin that form obstruction and prevent water from reaching the skin, wudhu, ghusl and prayer would be invalid.

Hmm, guess you get that from make up and nail polish? Things women are told to remove? What does one with a tattoo do? Never pray?

Tattoos are pretty common amongst reverts.





I do agree with you that water must reach the skin, but obviously there are special circumstances.

God would not have given these people Islam if they could never pray, while the Quran makes it clear those who do not pray will be in hell.
74 : 42-43.

I guess its like a guy with incontinence and drips urine through no fault of his own. So even though he can never maintain wudu, still he must make ablution and pray.

Of course Allah knows best.

 

[Daze]

Of course there is tayammum and the intention counts, was just stating why tattoos were considered haram as you yourself stated.
About the propaganda part, I think when we criticize leftists in favour of transition of little kids or taking hormone therapy, same logic applies for marriage of a pre-teen or teens. This is a highly politicized issue like @AspiringSoul mentioned, he is clearly more well-versed on this topic than I am. My ancestral village is full if shia-ites, nauzubillah they say lot of falsehood against Prophet's PBUH other daughters and Sahaba while other sects have their own biases, so I think with diverse evidences against history contorts our world view. So it better to follow logical reasoning. I did not mentioned 20yrs people as kids as you in your replies do but for me a 12-13 year old is a child who is not equipped to handle marital responsibilities. Restraint is also advised, our society as a whole is hyper-sexualised, otherwise a typical child able to retain their innocence as they should if they are not exposed to such environment/media etc.

Tayammum is not permissible if you have access to water.

Yes tattoo's are haram but our religion is all about forgiveness. I'm sure you're aware of this hadith.



I am not saying to go out and sin. But idk any Muslims with tattoo's anyway. Its mostly reverts that have them.

But it seems i misunderstood your intent to begin with.

 

[Maldarker]

Good thing you're not a Christian Art, they are forbidden to lie. At least this is what the 10 commandments say, even though we see it's a pretty common occurrence.

View attachment 88400

Sure, the definition of the word when looked up is... (top results too)
View attachment 88401

But we all know who runs this world, don't we Art?

Notice how they leave it alone in r/conspiracy.
View attachment 88403


Why don't you try being honest for once? You've made 3 or so posts after this. All of them insulting.

You only have support
View attachment 88402
Because they hate Islam as much as you do.

Oh well, deal with it.



I've known you for 7 years and this is nothing but lies. Who do you think you're kidding? Tempo's shown more love for Islam then you ever have and he's a rabid dog against it today.

Keep lying, it only puts more evil deeds onto your scales as every word is being recorded and will be brought to account.

Ego Art, you are nothing but a massive ego and absolutely refuse you could ever be wrong.

Wow nice putting words in peoples mouth. You are a hypocritical ass plain and simple. Never said anything about hate. Ever. But yet here we are you besmeerching everyone thats not lock step in your ideology. And you wonder why i would be sus about islam (again not hate but.. according to you it is. AND SINCE YOUR THE END ALL KNOW ALL IT MUST BE!). (Your the worst example of a human i know you play like a bully but when your called out you play victim nice to see your no different then the Alphabet mafia aka the spirit of this age. Nice going!)

 

[Daze]

This is what happens when you separate church and state in a land of alleged free speech.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1671528708073484289

 

[Maldarker]

This is what happens when you separate church and state in a land of alleged free speech.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1671528708073484289

So this is what i hate (see the difference @Daze its not religion). That a child has to be the voice of reason because of stupid idiot parents that should have stopped this along time ago and is having to worry about freedom of speech. This is where my hate is at. Its hate at the spirit of the age if your part of that then....but if not and you also stand against screwing up the kids well then we can be civil.

 

[Artful Revealer]

if you posess any sincerity in you, you'll think through what im about to say

1) forget what other muslims say, they are dumb.

Okay, you've got my attention.

On a more serious note, you're not allowed to have an ego here. Thread rules apparently.

Maybe you need a bit more Cross in your life.

the law pertains to the submission of the ego
the cross pertains to the DEATH of the ego

Notwithstanding your assinine generalization, this is actually something I'm somewhat on board with. However, a law, even an alleged divinely revealed law, is arbitrary and the submission to a law that one has selected (excluding other laws) or has been imposed upon (by fate) doesn't inherently equate to 'submitting one's ego'. It, in fact, often has the opposite effect.

hadith are not 'facts'

Ok ... Why are you telling me? That's the common non-muslim position.

Same goes for:

the 'saheeh' thing, means those imams (imam bukhari, muslim etc) determined by their own logic, reason and political bias/influence that those sources were verified/trustworthy...but that doesnt mean the actual information within the source is.

you can have a legitimate historical source of information, that was a lie or propaganda.
the only reason mainstream sunnis inc muhammed hijab never ever criticise the hadith, is because they are under sectarian influence and think it is easier to just say 'nah aisha hit puberty' rather than the other.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2) the abbasid caliphate was in competition with the shia movement which, back then, had greater influence and numbers than today (percentage wise). The shia have their own hadith with their own people/sources.

One of the ways the shia tried to discredit the sunni side, was to attack the character of Aisha. s
you can google science this one mate....'shia hate aisha' 'shia curse aisha'
they accuse her of adultery, of being a horrible and even a murderous wife. it is insane.
the abbasid response was to instead create the image of a perfect, innocent child bride...hence that hadith.

3) the same hadith collection, Bukhari, contains this hadith
(the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet (ﷺ) visited us, both in the mornings and evenings. My father Abu Bakr thought of building a mosque in the courtyard of his house and he did so. He used to pray and recite the Qur'an in it. The pagan women and their children used to stand by him and look at him with surprise. Abu Bakr was a Softhearted person and could not help weeping while reciting the Qur'an. The chiefs of the Quraish pagans became afraid of that (i.e. that their children and women might be affected by the recitation of Qur'an).

Note, i dont trust muzzies either btw..and these muzzies have blagged the word 'puberty' into this RECENTLY. it never used to say puberty. the arabic literally says عُقَيْلٍ، AKKAL ie intelligence.
in islam/muslim thinking, the age of intelligence/akkal is when we're around 7, past infancy..and know right from wrong and can form chronolical order in our memories etc. prior to that most of our memories are like a dream, without structure. it is when we're around 7, we can understand chronology.

i fucking despise muslim quran/hadith translators, they are every bit as corrupt as any historical jewish scribe 'corrupting the book'
they only discredit islam even when there is no need.


SO...aisha was at least 7 when her father embraced islam, when Mohammad was 40...
that would make her age 20 when she married Mohammad age 53 (or was it consumated at that age)?
this makes sense..because Aisha was already engaged to a man prior to marrying Mohammad.

the hadith that make Aisha a child bridge, are deeply influenced by abbasid-shia political warfare...

the reason the hadith scholars on both sides ARE ALL PERSIAN is because persia became the centre of islamic rule via the abbasids.
if you posess some degree of know how, you can see through the political agendas in hadith and know which ones are fake

I'd actually find this a plausible explanation (even though I've never heard of it) if it weren't for all the Islamic sources that say Aisha was 6-7 years old at marriage, 9 at consummation, 18 years old when Muhammad died; that the Quran unambiguously suggests the legality of child marriage (65:4); and that child marriage according to Muslims also happened with Muhammad's companions, including Umar and the daughter of Ali, who by all accounts is Muhammad's rightful successor according to Shia.

But let's assume for argument's sake that official Islamic history regarding Aisha is the consequence of political propaganda, that Aisha was of mature age and that child marriage was never condoned by Allah, or even that Aisha, even though she married Muhammad when she was 6, never consummated it ..., I could ask a different question:

Which is better: polygyny or monogyny? If monogyny is not better, why shouldn't we legalize polygyny? If the Almighty allowed for polygyny, then who are we to disagree? Surely humans don't know better than the Almighty.

We both know the point is that these laws are obviously not divinely ordained by the god Jesus Christ revealed, but justifications used by a powerful, influential man to take what he wanted.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Artful has an image of the posterboy of roman orientalist elitism.
ie what Jesus represented to Rome, was the archetypal jewish king, who submits and dies to the power of rome.

literally Rome inverted the cross, it isnt even about the death of the ego, it is about 'even your messiah submitted to us and we murdered him'
this is why they championed Jesus the most...and then the cross became the symbol of roman imperialism, under the same idea, of murdering every powerful thoughtform and collective archetype.

What's up with this nonsense? The inverted cross refers to Peter.
If it's about Romans bragging about having killed the Messiah, which was the responsibility of the Sanhedrin (they were the judge and jury, Rome was merely the executioner), then why did they wait for more than 3 centuries before adopting Christ as a symbol of Roman superiority?

where are the real christians?

Explain what a "real Christian" is, please.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Okay, you've got my attention.

On a more serious note, you're not allowed to have an ego here. Thread rules apparently.

Maybe you need a bit more Cross in your life.
Notwithstanding your assinine generalization, this is actually something I'm somewhat on board with. However, a law, even an alleged divinely revealed law, is arbitrary and the submission to a law that one has selected (excluding other laws) or has been imposed upon (by fate) doesn't inherently equate to 'submitting one's ego'. It, in fact, often has the opposite effect.

Ok ... Why are you telling me? That's the common non-muslim position.

Same goes for:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd actually find this a plausible explanation (even though I've never heard of it) if it weren't for all the Islamic sources that say Aisha was 6-7 years old at marriage, 9 at consummation, 18 years old when Muhammad died; that the Quran unambiguously suggests the legality of child marriage (65:4); and that child marriage according to Muslims also happened with Muhammad's companions, including Umar and the daughter of Ali, who by all accounts is Muhammad's rightful successor according to Shia.

But let's assume for argument's sake that official Islamic history regarding Aisha is the consequence of political propaganda, that Aisha was of mature age and that child marriage was never condoned by Allah, or even that Aisha, even though she married Muhammad when she was 6, never consummated it ..., I could ask a different question:

Which is better: polygyny or monogyny? If monogyny is not better, why shouldn't we legalize polygyny? If the Almighty allowed for polygyny, then who are we to disagree? Surely humans don't know better than the Almighty.

We both know the point is that these laws are obviously not divinely ordained by the god Jesus Christ revealed, but justifications used by a powerful, influential man to take what he wanted.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

What's up with this nonsense? The inverted cross refers to Peter.
If it's about Romans bragging about having killed the Messiah, which was the responsibility of the Sanhedrin (they were the judge and jury, Rome was merely the executioner), then why did they wait for more than 3 centuries before adopting Christ as a symbol of Roman superiority?

Explain what a "real Christian" is, please.

1) Maybe you need a bit more Cross in your life.
if only the cross was a living symbol. ive arguedthat it's a dead symbolb y Paul's own logic.
if the symbol no longer has power over the flesh, it is dead.

2) Notwithstanding your assinine generalization, this is actually something I'm somewhat on board with. However, a law, even an alleged divinely revealed law, is arbitrary and the submission to a law that one has selected (excluding other laws) or has been imposed upon (by fate) doesn't inherently equate to 'submitting one's ego'. It, in fact, often has the opposite effect.

i do agree with Paul's argument that the law was not given to conceal sin but to make it's depths known.
it is deeper than that.
you have 3 levels of mind
islam, hawa/passion and jahilliya/ignorance. likewise in hinduism you have sattva, rajas and tamas.
my own point was that the law of shariah was given to muslims only after the prophet had elevated people to the state of islam. that the law was given to prevent people falling back into hawa and jahilliya. However that ship has sailed. So here we have shariah used on a people already deep in passion and ignorance. even if we have islamic belief, the condition of jahilliya is deeper than that and ever evolving just like matters of the law and nature of sin.
so for example we have hardcore pawn now...it didnt exist in the time of prophet Mohammad. shariah would impose a ban on lewd images. nice story..but people would not be ignorant of what is out there and those conditions lead to unhealthy perversions.

im a big believer in this GRACE..in this idea of a reset whereby we attain a new understanding of right and wrong via Jesus. muslims willn ot accept any one elses authority on this topic. much like OT jews...even if we argue towards reason and logic on some matters, the people who push shariah will do it anyway.
shariah almost destroyed pakistan. it made them far worse.

lastly i should add that the highest level of faith in islam, is IHSAN. few people understand how this level relates metaphysica and cosmology.
it means 'to worship Allah as if you see Him and if you cant see Him then know that He sees you'
on the surface level, this is nothing..but on a deeper level it is about that 'single eye' which, when you think about it, is the total annahilation of ego. how can 'self' exist in the consciousness and experience of God?
even if this is a temporary personal experience of God's Immanence...there arelevels.

for example in hadith it says that 'when you sleep, your spirit returns to Allah' eg it is like the drop merging with the ocean. now if you read up on Turiya consciousness and the state beyond Delta brainwave state. they say that in that state there is no experience of 'i' and that beta, alpha, theta and even delta (which is dreamless sleep) are only illusory non-real states. So basically right now the highest part of our consciousness is the only true state and we're not even aware of it. if we were to experience it, we would realise these other states were like dreams, not real.
How this relates to 'GRACE/faith vs works' ie ihsan vs islam...is that the entire game of dualism and our personal story, born of the ego...becomes irrelevant on that level.
this is where the taoist concept of the Tao comes into it aswell.

this level already exists in islam, but the only issue is that we're also distracted by life and unable to experience it.
basically in hinduism, it takes decades and decares of renunciation to attain turiya consciousness.
no one has time or patience for that. the short cut was always faith. faith was like planting a seed and then all it's growth depends on the light, the light within does it's work without us thinking about it.
nice idea..but then Jesus also reminded us of the parable of weeds and other parables which suggest a deeper sabotage at play. so even when we try to plant the right seeds, there's a demonic influence going on causing immense internal damage.

this is where Jesus and the cross matter...it's to say 'you dont need to do any of that work, ive done it for you, but you do have to LOVE ME'
this is problematic for me. how can i claim to love Jesus? it is imaginary. i dont know the guy. never seen him. dont know anyone who knew him.
the epistles of the 1st century have no bearing onmy own condioning in the modern world. the cross is a dead symbol now and has no power etc.
so basically that puts me and the rest of us, in the same position as 1st century jews. conscious of our own sin. in need of help..
in the end all we have is our wits and humour to help us. we need our distractions..

also, the demonic struggle is real. respect to christianity for being one of the only other religions that focuses on the topic of demonic posession.
ive conversed with over 1000 spirits of the demonic kind via posessions. that was over 15 yrs ago. it was a phase of around 3-4 yrs where i was knee deep in that world.
now if i SEE a demon, im like 'u good mate?' im unphased and just...bored of it all tbh.
christianity was something i studied for a period of time after that to see if there was another take/angle on these topics, but yeh...
one big one, was this idea that if you ASK FOR ANYTHING in the name of Jesus, it'll be given.
it's anice idea, it pertains to faith and thepower of creative imagination. essentially it is no different to me consciously planting a seed/intent in my heart, with the firm believe it's growth will come so long as the light of faith remains strong in me.

ive seen sinful christians say that 'without fail, the demon leaves when we mention jesus' yet ive seen christians get exorcised by muslims aswell in the uk and they've said 'we went to lots of christians, it never worked'.
truth is, it's all about personal conviction, all of it. it's about the power of creative imagination. the muslim exorcists on the highest level have all this knowledge of taweez/constructs. i saw one guy bring out a very very basic book. it contained images like stick images/drawings depicting demonic entities but for example he had one image depictic a demon with it's head severed and connecting to the body with a single line. he told the demon posessing this sikh man 'see this image? his is what will happen if i burn this image'. the entity refused to leave him, he burnt the image and the entity screamed out in agnoy. it was a scary AF experience to witness it...but in the end that entty cried, begged to be kept alive and then left him.
basically like jesus said 'if you HAVE FAITH', it's about faith in the creative process. the human imagination is the key power to conquer the astral plane and our sinful nature via our astral body and it's attachments.
the key reason we fail is because of deep programming akin to the soil itself being tainted with rocks buried deep in it.
then the process of faith, akin to planting seeds, fails because the soil is in in a bad state. the process of tilling brings those 'rocks' if you will...to the surface. we see all the horrid sh** we'd buried deep in our heart, brough to the surface..and it can kill a person.

so basically, like i said...a bit of humour/wit and fuck off attitude goes a long way when we're dealing with so much. even what is buried in us, is not limited to our own selves, we carry deep ancestral wounds we cant even understand.

but yeh, power of the cross...if only. the power of creative imagination in me, wishes that was true. if only i could just use the cross and heal all my personal/internal turmoil
when you see a b*tch with the crucifix tatooed on her arse, your creative imagination takes a kicking.
but that's a diff story.

 

[AspiringSoul]

(65:4); and that child marriage according to Muslims also happened with Muhammad's companions, including Umar and the daughter of Ali, who by all accounts is Muhammad's rightful successor according to Shia.

But let's assume for argument's sake that official Islamic history regarding Aisha is the consequence of political propaganda, that Aisha was of mature age and that child marriage was never condoned by Allah, or even that Aisha, even though she married Muhammad when she was 6, never consummated it ..., I could ask a different question:

Which is better: polygyny or monogyny? If monogyny is not better, why shouldn't we legalize polygyny? If the Almighty allowed for polygyny, then who are we to disagree? Surely humans don't know better than the Almighty.

We both know the point is that these laws are obviously not divinely ordained by the god Jesus Christ revealed, but justifications used by a powerful, influential man to take what he wanted.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

What's up with this nonsense? The inverted cross refers to Peter.
If it's about Romans bragging about having killed the Messiah, which was the responsibility of the Sanhedrin (they were the judge and jury, Rome was merely the executioner), then why did they wait for more than 3 centuries before adopting Christ as a symbol of Roman superiority?

Explain what a "real Christian" is, please.

65:4

yeh im not dumb, i was expecting you to throw this verse out there.
And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease.

. O Prophet, when you [Muslims] divorce women, divorce them for [the commencement of] their waiting period and keep count of the waiting period, and fear Allah, your Lord. Do not turn them out of their [husbands'] houses, nor should they [themselves] leave [during that period] unless they are committing a clear immorality. And those are the limits [set by] Allah. And whoever transgresses the limits of Allah has certainly wronged himself. You know not; perhaps Allah will bring about after that a [different] matter.

2. And when they have [nearly] fulfilled their term, either retain them according to acceptable terms or part with them according to acceptable terms. And bring to witness two just men from among you and establish the testimony for [the acceptance of] Allah. That is instructed to whoever should believe in Allah and the Last day. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him a way out

3. And will provide for him from where he does not expect. And whoever relies upon Allah - then He is sufficient for him. Indeed, Allah will accomplish His purpose. Allah has already set for everything a [decreed] extent.

4. And those who no longer expect menstruation among your women - if you doubt, then their period is three months, and [also for] those who have not menstruated. And for those who are pregnant, their term is until they give birth. And whoever fears Allah - He will make for him of his matter ease.

5. That is the command of Allah, which He has sent down to you; and whoever fears Allah - He will remove for him his misdeeds and make great for him his reward.

there is nothing there about children/pre-pubesent females.
the key topic is about Idda, the waiting period.

in seperation, we have to wait 3 mentrual cycles or 3 months...and then we can decide whether or not to proceed with the divorce or get back togethe. Likewise A woman cannot marry a different man post-divorce, unless 3 menstrual cycles have passed since the last time she had intercourse.
a lot of women dont have a normal mentrual cycle eg pcos, hence it says 3 months.


ali's daughter's marraige to Umar
again it's that shia vs abbasid issue at play here.
the shia deny that marraige ever happened. They hate umar btw. So if the sunnis claim this marraige happened, it discredits the shia argument against team Umar/sunnis.

as for polygamy...again 7th century contexts, much like the topic of procreation. early islam encouraged procreation because manpower was needed. now we have overpopulation.
i forgot to add that the Quran does not only mention giving each messenger eg Jesus/Mohammad, the scripture. it talks of Scripture and Wisdom/hikmah.
hence the rulings of prophet Mohammad and the Quran in the 7th century, were a wisdom necessary for their time. Jesus made this point, when he said 'because you were cruel'.
times are different...and in my view polygamy should not happen today...but likewise the heavy load placed on muslim men, eg the entire financial burden, is also unfair.
i had this convo with my sister who is on a good salary out in dubai. her husband had a better job in the uk, but over there he's wasted and he's tired of it. he demanded that his wife/my sister, contributes towards the house then. she said 'DAT NUT ISLAM BTW'..and i stopped talking to her.
dat nut islam btw is the go to selfish muslimah answer because a load of pro feminist english speaking sheikhs brainwashed them...so they coul halal fuck a load of muslimahs.

there's so much at play here..but end of the day there are plenty of muslim guys who have unregistered nikahs with upto 4 muslim women. end of the day, even without marraige some men get all the pussy.
i only judge them when they use darker tactics to get that..and in most of these cases they get involved in thise small knit muslim cult like circles where they posess some degree of status and get wives that way.

btw temporary marraige was allowed by prophet Mohammad in his own wisdom, because some of the early muslim convert males were at war..and desperate for sexual release, on the verge of leaving islam over it. so he allowed it.
then he permanently forbade it.
nice ruling...that.
but if muslims are all fornicating now anyway, at least a'temporary' nikah was a little more halal than that.

lastly, this modern life is sometimes hilarious. there was this dumb bitch gullible muslim girl on a forum o nce getting chatted up by thirsty hindus. i was not going to white knight and try protecting them. not my problem. this girl got into a car with a hindu guy and he gradually seduced but, he she only gave him a hand job.
when he exposed her publically...her defence was 'i only used by left hand because it is less sin'
just because a girl is a muslim hijabi, doesmt man ill respect her. they're dumb and will get chirpsed by any man projecting some status, whatever the paradigm. religion is just a side story within all of this.
Mufti abu layth explained it well..
sex/lust are not inheritently evil. our people raised us to view sex as if it was entirely evil..and it caused worse problems and perversions.

basically without putting himself in it, he understands that modern times call for a modern grown up approach to the whole topic of islamic nikah's. the current system of ardous match making, expensive drawn out weddings..are a major fitnah/civil strife. divorce rates are increasing amongst muslims. every other muslim girl i know is divorced and i do not respect them nor will i marry any of them. so typically so so so many late 30s and 40+ single divorced females..and trust me they do compromise and settle for a polygamous marraige in the end.
that's because muslim men who have status will just marry a girl from a muslim country rather than deal with these bitches.

 

[Daze]

Polygyny is definitely better as compared to inverted pineapple signs at door or polyamorous relationships and whatever else is going on. My father re-married though he hurt us in his own way but still I know its better than the fitnah.

Interesting, isn't it? What God has allowed is demonized (polygamy) and what he has forbidden is glorified (fornication).

Today you got main stream music praising men with 6, 7, 8 girlfriends. But if you want to marry only 2 of them, then all hell breaks loose.

"Have all the women you want but don't you dare tie yourself to them for life."


This is truly the age of the dajjal, where everything is backwards.





We know God allows polygamy because most of the prophets had multiple wives. Solomon (as) is a well known example.



Obviously Muslims are forbidden from having more then 4 even though the prophets had more. Prophet Muhammad had 12.

 

[Maldarker]

Okay, you've got my attention.

On a more serious note, you're not allowed to have an ego here. Thread rules apparently.

Maybe you need a bit more Cross in your life.
Notwithstanding your assinine generalization, this is actually something I'm somewhat on board with. However, a law, even an alleged divinely revealed law, is arbitrary and the submission to a law that one has selected (excluding other laws) or has been imposed upon (by fate) doesn't inherently equate to 'submitting one's ego'. It, in fact, often has the opposite effect.

Ok ... Why are you telling me? That's the common non-muslim position.

Same goes for:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd actually find this a plausible explanation (even though I've never heard of it) if it weren't for all the Islamic sources that say Aisha was 6-7 years old at marriage, 9 at consummation, 18 years old when Muhammad died; that the Quran unambiguously suggests the legality of child marriage (65:4); and that child marriage according to Muslims also happened with Muhammad's companions, including Umar and the daughter of Ali, who by all accounts is Muhammad's rightful successor according to Shia.

But let's assume for argument's sake that official Islamic history regarding Aisha is the consequence of political propaganda, that Aisha was of mature age and that child marriage was never condoned by Allah, or even that Aisha, even though she married Muhammad when she was 6, never consummated it ..., I could ask a different question:

Which is better: polygyny or monogyny? If monogyny is not better, why shouldn't we legalize polygyny? If the Almighty allowed for polygyny, then who are we to disagree? Surely humans don't know better than the Almighty.

We both know the point is that these laws are obviously not divinely ordained by the god Jesus Christ revealed, but justifications used by a powerful, influential man to take what he wanted.

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What's up with this nonsense? The inverted cross refers to Peter.
If it's about Romans bragging about having killed the Messiah, which was the responsibility of the Sanhedrin (they were the judge and jury, Rome was merely the executioner), then why did they wait for more than 3 centuries before adopting Christ as a symbol of Roman superiority?

Explain what a "real Christian" is, please.

The real christians to them are the ones that cow to them not having a back bone to stand against their nonsense while they blast our beliefs left and right.

 

[Artful Revealer]

The real christians to them are the ones that cow to them not having a back bone to stand against their nonsense while they blast our beliefs left and right.

100% truth.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Your replies are getting annoying now. Calling women bitches left and right in the same reply where you've mentioned Quranic verses, really disrespectful ..."ignore" feature is great.

i wasnt talking to you, i dont know you or give a fk about you.
im my own man with my own rationale and methodology. in fact i barely ever respect muslims, so make of that what you will.

the majority of muslim women ni the west are bitches. prophet Mohammad said the majority of people in hell, that he witnessed, were women. He said 'because you are UNGRATEFUL'.
id argue that muslim women in the west are worse than even the most liberal pro trans white women, because they use religion to justify their evil intent and actions.
most 7th century hikmah and rulings on marraige are N/a in the modern world.

 

[Daze]

Most men can't afford and there is a verse regarding equality too but there is a issue regarding slaves.

Frankly speaking, verses like these makes me doubtful about Islam in all honesty. View attachment 88443

Yes, i know wives must be treated equal, for example if they both want their own house then the man must provide this. Due to the high cost of living, this is why multiple wives today are rare, at least among the common people.

Its just too expensive as the complete and total cost of living is placed upon the man. If a wife works she doesn't have to give a single dime to support her family. 100% of it is hers to do as she wills. But Muslim women are oppressed right?




Remember the Quran came not to Muslims, but to mankind. It was also speaking to the Quraysh, the kafirs and so on.

Slaves were a part of their culture, not an Islamic thing. They were more of a reality so Allah (awj) addressed them as Islam is a complete way of life.

In Mecca, Muslim slaves wore the clothes of their masters, ate the food of their masters at the table with their masters.
You will find alot of hadith advising Muslims to free their slaves. Such and such deeds carry the reward of freeing so many slaves and so on.


Look at it though the eyes of the slaves. Literally the first martyr in Islam was Sumayah, a slave. The first one to call the athan was Bilal, a slave.
These are incredibly blessed people who have extremely high status in the next life.

We can't touch the sahabah today, not even the best of us. I'd trade everything i have in the world today if i could trade places with any one of them. Indeed they were the best generation.


Remember the Quran is literally the word of Allah (awj), we must never question it.
He knows what we don't know. We have the pixel, he has the complete picture.

 

[Artful Revealer]

Polygyny is definitely better as compared to inverted pineapple signs at door or polyamorous relationships and whatever else is going on. My father re-married though he hurt us in his own way but still I know its better than the fitnah.

I agree, but is it better than monogyny? Polygyny is like polytheism: love for multiple women / gods. Monogyny / Monotheism: love and dedication to one woman and one God. Monogamy was already a norm in pre-Islamic times, in Greece and Rome mostly for practical and social reasons (although these "monogamous" relationships did not exclude sex with slaves and concubines) and was reinforced with the advent of Christianity, which added theological dimensions to marriage and fidelity.

 

[Daze]

Make sense but doubt is just the part of journey.

Secondly, regarding women and their finances, like I said before cultural differences are a culprit too. Like in countries like Pak/India, dowry is expected from girls. Its a very common practise due to the influences of Hindu ancestors. I believe in US men tend to avoid marriages due to system favouring women but in our part of the world girls who are not financially stable, married young, with kids are left by men because they got interested in other women and can't afford multiple wives. The system is rigged here in favour of men. Divorce is all time high here too not because those are feminist "bitches" because the men are trashy and want all the perks of being a man. As the representation of women from west is high here, I just wanted to share the story from other side.

The dowry is meant to protect the Muslim women. Should a marriage not work out she has money to fall back on.

It is 100% unislamic for the women to give a dowry to the man. Men are the providers in a Muslim household, period. As Muslim men have rights over their women so do Muslim women have rights over there men. Its not her job to pay a single cent towards the upkeep of the household.


In the US there are lots of reasons men avoid marriage. Courts favoring the women are only part of it. A main one amongst the current generation is the "cow gives its milk for free" if you know what i mean.

So from a mans perspective, why get married at all? This is why so many fight for abortions, so they can keep their man.

Alot of things are bleak today in your world and in mine, but it is only a sign of the times. The end is near.

 

[Artful Revealer]

Me being a woman will of course prefer monogamous relationships, most women are like this. Its a natural bias. Plus I haven't seen perfect households when it comes to multiple marriages in my observation. Very close observation.

There's no doubt monogamy comes more natural to women than men, no matter what modern society tries to tell women. Males are wired to spread their seed, females are wired to find a high value male (#notallnotall, relax lgbt). That's why women can be more "forgiving" to their men for having multiple partners, as long as he's a relatively high value man. A man, however, generally doesn't tolerate his woman to have other partners besides him. On the other hand, women are more hypergamous by nature, therefore quicker to replace her partner with someone she considers more valuable.

One can see that monogamy (which not only means 'one partner at a time', but also staying loyal to your partner, as in not divorcing to marry someone else) is an ideal that requires both man and woman to transcend their primal natures and resist temptation and adultery and embrace discipline and fidelity. Polygamy and polyamory seem like excuses to avoid this spiritual struggle (which is ironic considering the polyamourous crowd often describe themselves as "totally spiritual, man"). Polygyny is the same, albeit very conveniently bent in favour of men.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Yes, i know wives must be treated equal, for example if they both want their own house then the man must provide this. Due to the high cost of living, this is why multiple wives today are rare, at least among the common people.

Its just too expensive as the complete and total cost of living is placed upon the man. If a wife works she doesn't have to give a single dime to support her family. 100% of it is hers to do as she wills. But Muslim women are oppressed right?




Remember the Quran came not to Muslims, but to mankind. It was also speaking to the Quraysh, the kafirs and so on.

Slaves were a part of their culture, not an Islamic thing. They were more of a reality so Allah (awj) addressed them as Islam is a complete way of life.

In Mecca, Muslim slaves wore the clothes of their masters, ate the food of their masters at the table with their masters.
You will find alot of hadith advising Muslims to free their slaves. Such and such deeds carry the reward of freeing so many slaves and so on.


Look at it though the eyes of the slaves. Literally the first martyr in Islam was Sumayah, a slave. The first one to call the athan was Bilal, a slave.
These are incredibly blessed people who have extremely high status in the next life.

We can't touch the sahabah today, not even the best of us. I'd trade everything i have in the world today if i could trade places with any one of them. Indeed they were the best generation.


Remember the Quran is literally the word of Allah (awj), we must never question it.
He knows what we don't know. We have the pixel, he has the complete picture.

1) just like you refer to slaves as a temporal 7th century issue and not eternal and therefore not relevant today..
you should know, that the Quran was a snapshot into the 7th century and not a 'eternal law'.
The eternal law idea stems from a total flaw in muslim understanding of the concept of the ETERNAL KALAM/WORD. in the context, the eternal Word refers to the LOGOS and became a subject of debate between ibn sina and al ghazali.
these muslims assumed that the kalam refers to the QURAN and hence 'the quran is eternal and for all times'. ibn sina argued the Quran was created and post-causal and then they argued how that fits with 'the eternal kalam'.
im not even kidding, this is how dumb they were.

So...the main rulings of marraige in the Quran are in Surah an-Nisa.
on the surface level due to how it is translated, you might see 'oh you who believe' and think 'yup, Allah is speaking to me'
whilst in the context, Allah is speaking to that muslim community specifically.
so

4. An-Nisaa - سورة النساء - ( The Women ) - Read Quran القران الكريم in English translation by Yusuf Ali

4. An-Nisaa - سورة النساء - ( The Women ) - Read Quran القران الكريم in English translation by Yusuf Ali - SearchTruth

www.searchtruth.com

14. But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment.

this doesnt mean 'you muslims in the 21st century, do not dare to disagree with the hadith'



it is literally talking to those muslims who had the prophet living in their company.
just the same as the jihad or slave verses are not a direct instruction to us (but all of this still serves as an important moral teaching and lesson)

59. O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.

the above is not possible, unless you understand that it addresses that community. the majority of backwards muslims in the muslim world (esp the indian subcontinent) would be like 'yup, dat means Quran and da hadeefs doe' (refer to Allah and His messenger).
this is where i have to use certain language to keep my sanity, because it is mind numbing and soul destroying knowing just how thick muslims are.
it is no wonder the prophet SAW said 'ignorance will be widespread' and it isnt coming from me. it's coming from the majority.

The rulings around marraige outlined in this surah, take an entirely different form in the modern western world.
if your position is 'it's financially more difficult today' then it means men are becoming impotent to what Allah made halal for them in the first place. they are limtied and made lesser by modern life.
women on the otherhand, have it better. they arent milling what by hand, using straw to sweep the house etc. that's the least of it too.


finally my actual point is about this...

imagine a man carrying the financial burden as per islam, providing everythingbut then in divorce the wife uses the western law system to extract everything as if it was a 50-50 marraige?
it's so unjust.....it's a major sin, but those muslimahs dont feel the weight of it cuz 'muh islam seded'

that is why prophet Mohammad saw these bitches in hell.

ive seen too many quality muslims broken down by horrible muslimahs. guys i grew up with. guys who were ready to conquer the world, happy, full of ife, destroyed by this bullshit. a guy i grew up with was 38 he had 4 beautiful children. when he was fired from his job and unemployed, his wife left him and filed for divorce. this guy literally suffered a heart attack holding onto his kids photos and died (this was 2 yrs ago).
his wife was very much the epitome of the modern muslimah. all insta, snapchat bs, influenced by her slag friends.
these are people i know well.
i get it, they had bills to pay, a mortgage etc. but he was on a downfall in life. they could have downgraded.

i know so many non muslim couples, they're living on rent, the men working the most basic jobs. english, polish, romanian, black..
but it's the special muslimahs living on social media who expect the high life and when it doesnt work out, talaak.


what happens when the majorty of muslim men in the west give up and decide 'id rather fornicate and i dont care about islam anymore'?
THIS IS COMING. it's happening...and they wont be munafiq for doing it, they'll just be people who've lost their ideals due to a major injustice enabled by a warped understanding of islam (because...remember...'ignorance will become widespread).


in the modern times, the financial burden has to be shared. muslim females go to school like the rest of us, uni a. if they arent being house wives and raising kids...if they want to hold down a job but keep their own money cuz of a pseudo islamic loophole kick them to the fucking kerb.

 

[Daze]

1) just like you refer to slaves as a temporal 7th century issue and not eternal and therefore not relevant today..
you should know, that the Quran was a snapshot into the 7th century and not a 'eternal law'.
The eternal law idea stems from a total flaw in muslim understanding of the concept of the ETERNAL KALAM/WORD. in the context, the eternal Word refers to the LOGOS and became a subject of debate between ibn sina and al ghazali.
these muslims assumed that the kalam refers to the QURAN and hence 'the quran is eternal and for all times'. ibn sina argued the Quran was created and post-causal and then they argued how that fits with 'the eternal kalam'.
im not even kidding, this is how dumb they were.

So...the main rulings of marraige in the Quran are in Surah an-Nisa.
on the surface level due to how it is translated, you might see 'oh you who believe' and think 'yup, Allah is speaking to me'
whilst in the context, Allah is speaking to that muslim community specifically.
so

4. An-Nisaa - سورة النساء - ( The Women ) - Read Quran القران الكريم in English translation by Yusuf Ali

4. An-Nisaa - سورة النساء - ( The Women ) - Read Quran القران الكريم in English translation by Yusuf Ali - SearchTruth

www.searchtruth.com

14. But those who disobey Allah and His Messenger and transgress His limits will be admitted to a Fire, to abide therein: And they shall have a humiliating punishment.

this doesnt mean 'you muslims in the 21st century, do not dare to disagree with the hadith'




it is literally talking to those muslims who had the prophet living in their company.
just the same as the jihad or slave verses are not a direct instruction to us (but all of this still serves as an important moral teaching and lesson)

59. O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination.

the above is not possible, unless you understand that it addresses that community. the majority of backwards muslims in the muslim world (esp the indian subcontinent) would be like 'yup, dat means Quran and da hadeefs doe' (refer to Allah and His messenger).
this is where i have to use certain language to keep my sanity, because it is mind numbing and soul destroying knowing just how thick muslims are.
it is no wonder the prophet SAW said 'ignorance will be widespread' and it isnt coming from me. it's coming from the majority.

The rulings around marraige outlined in this surah, take an entirely different form in the modern western world.
if your position is 'it's financially more difficult today' then it means men are becoming impotent to what Allah made halal for them in the first place. they are limtied and made lesser by modern life.
women on the otherhand, have it better. they arent milling what by hand, using straw to sweep the house etc. that's the least of it too.


finally my actual point is about this...

imagine a man carrying the financial burden as per islam, providing everythingbut then in divorce the wife uses the western law system to extract everything as if it was a 50-50 marraige?
it's so unjust.....it's a major sin, but those muslimahs dont feel the weight of it cuz 'muh islam seded'

that is why prophet Mohammad saw these bitches in hell.

ive seen too many quality muslims broken down by horrible muslimahs. guys i grew up with. guys who were ready to conquer the world, happy, full of ife, destroyed by this bullshit. a guy i grew up with was 38 he had 4 beautiful children. when he was fired from his job and unemployed, his wife left him and filed for divorce. this guy literally suffered a heart attack holding onto his kids photos and died (this was 2 yrs ago).
his wife was very much the epitome of the modern muslimah. all insta, snapchat bs, influenced by her slag friends.
these are people i know well.
i get it, they had bills to pay, a mortgage etc. but he was on a downfall in life. they could have downgraded.

i know so many non muslim couples, they're living on rent, the men working the most basic jobs. english, polish, romanian, black..
but it's the special muslimahs living on social media who expect the high life and when it doesnt work out, talaak.


what happens when the majorty of muslim men in the west give up and decide 'id rather fornicate and i dont care about islam anymore'?
THIS IS COMING. it's happening...and they wont be munafiq for doing it, they'll just be people who've lost their ideals due to a major injustice enabled by a warped understanding of islam (because...remember...'ignorance will become widespread).


in the modern times, the financial burden has to be shared. muslim females go to school like the rest of us, uni a. if they arent being house wives and raising kids...if they want to hold down a job but keep their own money cuz of a pseudo islamic loophole kick them to the fucking kerb.

I don't like to argue with Muslims because it makes the deen look weak.

Let the Christians attack one another, we are not like them, the believers are but brothers.

I would have hoped you'd have noticed this by now.

مع السلامة