Freedom of Religion

rainerann

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Which brings us back full circle to 501c3 and the state having authority over the church because the church wants to assure its sheeple that their “tithe” is tax deductible!

I understand your intentions and have no problem with your perspective, but that just is not the reality in the majority of Churches in the USA.
Except the problem that you are suggesting is coming from the subject of tax law and is not related to the history of the church using the 10% tithe as a standard. This has been used for hundreds of years before tax law and tax law is the problem, not the church using this as a recommendation.

If a person gives to the church, they should be able to receive a tax deduction. That would seem like common sense. I understand what you are trying to say about the 501c3, but the problem is not created by the church. It is created by the tax law which is an excessive use of the authority the state has. We should not have tax law, but that wouldn't change something like this.
 

rainerann

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Although, I should add that tax deductions create the economic incentive to accept taxes. It is a way of suppressing opposition to tax law so I don't agree with the tax deductions. They are like watching an infomercial where the person is trying to sell you something that they are saying is worth a lot more value than the price it is being sold for. My steam cleaner did not clean the bathroom fixtures and make them look as new as the day they were installed. It was just a gimmick. Tax deductions are a similar gimmick that are useful in raising runds to expand the state so the state can gain more control than it deserves.
 

Todd

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Except the problem that you are suggesting is coming from the subject of tax law and is not related to the history of the church using the 10% tithe as a standard. This has been used for hundreds of years before tax law and tax law is the problem, not the church using this as a recommendation.

If a person gives to the church, they should be able to receive a tax deduction. That would seem like common sense. I understand what you are trying to say about the 501c3, but the problem is not created by the church. It is created by the tax law which is an excessive use of the authority the state has. We should not have tax law, but that wouldn't change something like this.
You are not seeing the problem I am trying to explain. The 501c3 issue is just a symptom of the real issue that has long existed in the church since the 4th century. It’s all about the money!
If the church was the organic body of Christ that Jesus intended, there would be no clergy vs laity and everyone would share their wealth (both material and spiritual) to make sure everyone was taken care of.

There would be no need or pressure to provide a full time salary to a hierarchical leader. If the body of Christ was organic there would be no need for an institution or a tax ID number. People would meet the needs of their fellow believers out of love and compassion.

Instead of paying attention to our neighbor and doing something personally to meet their needs we would rather go to an institution, pay a tithe and expect the institution to meet the needs of others. Do you really think that is what God intended?

Anyways I’m sure I’m way off topic for the thread. I will get off my soap box now and let this thread return to regular scheduled program:D
 

rainerann

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Mar 18, 2017
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You are not seeing the problem I am trying to explain. The 501c3 issue is just a symptom of the real issue that has long existed in the church since the 4th century. It’s all about the money!
If the church was the organic body of Christ that Jesus intended, there would be no clergy vs laity and everyone would share their wealth (both material and spiritual) to make sure everyone was taken care of.

There would be no need or pressure to provide a full time salary to a hierarchical leader. If the body of Christ was organic there would be no need for an institution or a tax ID number. People would meet the needs of their fellow believers out of love and compassion.

Instead of paying attention to our neighbor and doing something personally to meet their needs we would rather go to an institution, pay a tithe and expect the institution to meet the needs of others. Do you really think that is what God intended?

Anyways I’m sure I’m way off topic for the thread. I will get off my soap box now and let this thread return to regular scheduled program:D
I see what you are saying. I agree with it to some extent on both sides where there is an extreme manifestation. I just don't think the tithe created the 501c3 or that paying a tithe prevents people from giving organically. I have had people personally give to me from the church on a couple of different occasions. I believe in tithing, but I have also helped pay the water bill for a friend a couple times. I used to grocery shop for the homeless people who live in the park. I learned that you should buy soft food for homeless people because they don't have access to dental care and don't always have all their teeth.

For me, tithing was the introduction to doing things like this and it has always been taught as an exercise that creates the discipline to give, not the requirement to give in only one particular way. I think that is a broad brush.

In addition, the tax exemption is a demonstration of excessive authority within the state, not a violation of the boundaries of freedom of religion.

Anyways I’m sure I’m way off topic for the thread. I will get off my soap box now and let this thread return to regular scheduled program:D
:) It's not really off topic. I don't mind it.
 
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Ever think that isnt it funny nothing no prophets nothing in our time all these amazing wonderous things happened at the recording of these books yet isnt it a coincidence we hear nothing in all our years and even for many generations before us, maybe, its all just books and words, and theres nothing, and we are all just kididng ourselves and we will never get confirmation we will all just die, and nothing will happen that is of any merit in terms of religion in themeantime. nightmare.
The book of Daniel, according to historians was really authored during the hellenistic era. With the athiestic agenda amongst many historians, even that can be disputed. Let's assume they're correct though, that means Daniel's 'prophecies' were not legit ie that someone was just writing down events that had already occurred and presented them as if they had been foretold centuries earlier.
YET
the book of Daniel was older than the roman empire and Jesus Christ, yet it foretold events that were 100% accurate.
For example in Daniel 7 it talks about the 10 horns of the 4th beast (rome). It talks about how 3 were uprooted by another (the final horn) and how a little horn would rise to power, he would belong to the 10.
Now look at the Roman empire from Augustus Ceasar to Vespasian, to the year of 4 emperors, to Titus the son of Vespasian.
Why are these emperors singled out? it's because they ruled over the temple of God.
After the temple was destroyed, the emperors become irrelevant. So even though Titus was the 11 emperor 'horn' he is only relevant to the prophecies before he becomes an emperor, he takes charge of the seige of Jerusalem and destroys the temple.

So although these events took place long ago, we still know the prophecies were older than the events they foretold so accurately.

Now about the book of Revelation, it might appear subjective but look at Revelation 6's 4 horsemen prophecy.
The first horseman represents conquest

now look at that and go look at the entire age of colonialism.
The next horseman represents death. You only have to look at how these colonial empires and their colonial subjects went to war and how these events also resulted in the holocaust aswell as the bolshevik revolution.
look at the next horseman, does that not sound a lot like modern capitalism to you?
think Gap, apple, nike...sweatshops.
was watching a documentary on how walmarts/asda buy the tuna we eat from places like thailand where workers get paid $2 a day and live a very difficult life and then consider the amount we pay for canned tuna. There were a lot of documentaries about this sort of stuff and if you're familiar with john Pilger's material, the third horseman prophecy is very accurate and relevant.

Although many of the things within the book can are kind of subjective, it's only when they've been fulfilled we realise how accurae the were.
the end times beast system is a one world government...the whore of babylon also sits on the beast.

of course i know exactly how i understand those prophecies and their fulfillment..and these events are being fulfilled one after the other.
So we're still seeing lots of 'amazing wonderous' things.
#Feet of iron and clay, Daniel 2...they do not 'gel'
the great project to establish a totally mixed utopian united world system can only exist by force.
even i, as the son of immigrants, knows iron and clay don't mix.
 
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