Dr. William Campbell destroyed by Dr. Zakir Naik on scientific errors in the Bible MUST WATCH!!

[manama]

Why do Christians in this forum keep saying that we are dismissing Jesus' words? We are NOT dismissing Jesus' words, you are. We believe in Jesus and we want to hear his words and yet you keep giving us the words of Paul and others.
Saying that Jesus called God "his father" is not proof because you yourself call him your father and say that all of you are children of God.

This is a science thread anw, where the science minded christians at lol

 

[manama]

I bet I could find a clip of Wood BBQing Muslims too....

Yeah that is right, just YOUTUBE Islamicize me and then Unislamicize me. Thanks for the chance to advertise the serious apologetics series.

That wasn't a "BBQing muslims", that was bunch of idiots being an utter embarrassment to humanity and Christianity and being a total insult to the name of Jesus p.b.u.h.

 

[Etagloc]

I don't know how to respond. I don't want to lie- I used to be hooked to Civilization:Revolution for the XBox 360.

It makes me feel sad- I don't think other people have played that but insha'Allah I'll explain it.

You play as a Civilization and you know, you develop science and technology. If you're familiar with that sort of genre (I love that genre), you probably know what I'm talking about.

Of course- what you want to do is- you invest in technology. You know... I might have 4 opponents and they're coming at me with spears. But they're investing their resources into spears.

I might be playing defense for a minute- but that's because I'm investing in science.

You RTS players know what I'm talking about. You develop the science. Once you do that- then you go after your opponents.

By this point- you have bomber planes, you have tanks and you have nukes. Your opponents- they're still fighting with spears.

And that's what I feel like. I feel like I'm playing Civilization and I almost feel bad. It's sort of like playing Civilization and having nukes, bomber planes and tanks- while the other side is still fighting with spears.

I did say "sort of," though. Because posting David Wood and his clown routine- that's not even fighting with spears. That's more like throwing a boomerang, missing your opponent- and accidentally hitting yourself in the head.

I can't help but think of that old Wendy's commercial. Where's the beef?

I see the clown routine. I do see the clown routine. I see that- but where's the beef?

This helpful graphic might illustrate

I'm not trying to bash the David Wood stuff.

'Idiocracy' writer: I never expected my movie 'to become a documentary'

http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/270642-idiocracy-writer-i-never-expected-my-movie-to-become-a

I don't want to bash David Wood. This is serious. When I was in high school, our English teacher talked to us about how society is becoming dumbed down. He talked to us about the movie Idiocracy. I've posted a lot about Spengler and his "Decline of Western Civilization" thesis.

I don't expect people to be familiar with Spengler.

But some of you may have seen Idiocracy.

I watched it because I had a really great English teacher- and he talked to us about that movie. And we had a serious discussion about it. The subject is serious.

Idiocracy came out in 2006.

The movie out in 2006 and we've seen a lot which verifies what the movie was talking about. We can see- things are being dumbed down right of us.

We've seen the Trump campaign. We've seen David Wood videos. There's been different examples.

10 THINGS IDIOCRACY GOT RIGHT ABOUT THE FUTURE
https://www.ifc.com/shows/comedy-bang-bang/blog/2015/03/10-things-idiocracy-got-right-about-the-future

"I'm a diagnosed sociopath. I am incapable of empathy, so the best I can do is get a point across."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/768822439610580992

"Psychopath David Wood explains how he tried to kill his father & that without Jesus he'd have no morals. Yikes."

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/785815500005580800

Now him being a psychopath- that's a different subject. I don't want to get too much into that.

That African-American (if I'm not mistaken) guy with the earings... him being kind "off"... I don't want to get too much into that.

If people want to watch the clown routine- I guess they can do that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrWoG8IckyE

If I want to eat expensive peanuts and see some elephants- I'll go to the circus. But I don't go to the circus to get closer to God.

The masjid isn't a circus. My imam doesn't play the electric guitar. We don't go there- and the service is a rock concert.

I don't support overpriced bags of peanuts but I'm not against elephants. If people want to go to the circus- they can go to the circus.

If they want to talk science, if they want serious discussion, they want an intellectual discussion- they can examine the videos in the OP.

I think I saw Red Sky say RE Trinity 1 × 1 x 1 = 1. Who ever said that deserves a thumbs up.

Again I go with eyewitness accounts [Etagloc: most of the New Testament was written by Paul] not speculations of a man born approximately 500 years later.
The apostles who denied Jesus before He was crucified all died for their faith in Him later (except John). They believed He was God. I trust them.

I bet I could find a clip of Wood BBQing Muslims too....

Yeah that is right, just YOUTUBE Islamicize me and then Unislamicize me. Thanks for the chance to advertise the serious apologetics series.

 

[Haich]

Referring to Jesus as the fulness of Godhead bodily can't get any clearer. (I know you will dismiss original bible as only being copies too. I have see the merry-go-round several times already.)

Godhead: https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Godhead/
https://www.gotquestions.org/Godhead.html

There are early Christian writings from second century that mention Father, Son and Holy Spirit too, but I predict you will dismiss these as only copies, they weren't written in modern English (making invalid) et.al.

This should be bookmarked by Christians for next "yeah but no early Christian writing said anything about the Trinity/ godhead/ Jesus being God":

2nd century Athenagoras: https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.v.ii.x.html
3rd century Tertullian - word trinity used - https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.v.ix.xii.html

Thanks for the links, I'll have a look through them properly over the weekend.

I did find this on the gotquestions website and found it interesting.

What is the Godhead?

Question: "What is the Godhead?"

Answer: The term Godhead is found three times in the King James Version: Acts 17:29; Romans 1:20; and Colossians 2:9. In each of the three verses, a slightly different Greek word is used, but the definition of each is the same: “deity” or “divine nature.” The word Godhead is used to refer to God’s essential nature. We’ll take a look at each of these passages and what they mean.

It states a slightly different Greek word is used to refer to the trinity, so the actual phrase Godhead, only came about in the English translation. I find this problematic because the trinity is such a concrete aspect of your faith, yet there clearly isn't a reference to it in the Koine Greek manuscripts.

How can a word be slightly different, yet the same in meaning? This is why I believe your faith to be confusing, there's just no clear cut answers...

Also, I'm having a hard time locating the Koine Greek copies of these verses, do you happen to have a link?

Also why is the bible taught only in English? Why isn't it taught in the language it was revealed? Do you think this causes you to understand only part of Jesus' message?

Sorry for all the questions, take your time in responding.

 

[Haich]

The English term Godhead may refer to three coeternal consubstantial persons or essences, but where is the original Aramaic or Greek word which proves this? You should have this knowledge as the bible wasn't revealed in English! So whoever had been translating must've referred to original scripture.

The website you posted @JoChris, stated Theon and Theos are used in the Koine Greek manuscripts. However, those words mean Gods so where do we get the explanation of the trinity in the original manuscript ?

 

[manama]

Also why is the bible taught only in English? Why isn't it taught in the language it was revealed? Do you think this causes you to understand only part of Jesus' message?

Interestingly enough where I live, my Christian friend is learning hebrew and greek to fully read the Bible.
I think the west specifically focuses on english and nothing else because they know that their kids already don't go to church or read the Bible even when its readily available and is in their own native language. If they had to read it in a different language or go ahead and learn the language, Christianity might go extinct completely in the west.

 

[Haich]

Interestingly enough where I live, my Christian friend is learning hebrew and greek to fully read the Bible.
I think the west specifically focuses on english and nothing else because they know that their kids already don't go to church or read the Bible even when its readily available and is in their own native language. If they had to read it in a different language or go ahead and learn the language, Christianity might go extinct completely in the west.

Your friend is a true seeker of knowledge. I just can't see how one can rely on an English translation. It's like memorizing the Qur'an in English and neglecting to even attempt to learn the Arabic. It's not the same and the English should only be used as a general guideline, or for those who of course are students of Arabic or new to the religion.

 

[manama]

Your friend is a true seeker of knowledge. I just can't see how one can rely on an English translation. It's like memorizing the Qur'an in English and neglecting to even attempt to learn the Arabic. It's not the same and the English should only be used as a general guideline, or for those who of course are students of Arabic or new to the religion.

English is the worst medium to learn anything ancient in the first place. 99% of the meaning is lost. They can't even decide which english version is the best. Its like translating something using google translate twice.

 

[Leo]

These sorts of arguments really arent beneficial. If you are trying to sincerely point others in the right direction, according to you, then this is not the way. The way I see it, Islam and Christianity believes that Jesus will return. When he does I am pretty sure we will know which is the correct way.

It is important tho, that one looks within himself and questions what has been taught to him and try and find the truth. Without questioning and finding answers for yourself, you do a disservice to the God given gift of intelligence and free will.

The antichrist is on his way, if not here already... Protect yourself, your family and loved ones. Hurling insults at people you have never seen helps nobody.

Pray to God for guidance...

 

[Claire Rousseau]

That's alright, no offence taken.

Right, but we're not talking about Mohammed and actually, to accept Mohammed solely and leave Jesus makes you a non muslim. To be a Muslim you have to accept Jesus and all the prophets since the time of Adam. (Peace be upon them all).

The burden of proof is on you. Please provide original manuscripts clearly detailing Jesus' divinity. I have explained that the English bible isn't a reliable source as this wasnt the language Jesus spoke. Where is the trinity mentioned in the original bible ?

With all due respect, Haich, you cannot even understand Biblical Hebrew (which is vastly different from “Hebrew” spoken since the 19th century) because it is a dead language....as is Aramaic, so what difference does it make if we could plop the very hand-written originals on a table before you?

You still would not know what they said, so what would that even prove?

Are you fluent in Koine Greek? (And by fluent, I mean: can you fully understand the spoken language, read & write it & speak it without having to translate it into another language in your head?)

If so, you can read the Textus Receptus (Received Text) that is the New Testament.
The English KJB we have today was translated by a panel of some of the most brilliant, learned scholars, diligently, and cross-scrutinized by many saved men.

Ultimately, the reader must decide for themselves if it is the truth. Without believing on Jesus Christ as THE ONLY begotten Son of God, you will not have the Holy Spirit to reveal its truth to you.

Should you believe, God PROVIDES the understanding, and show the truth unto you.

Why Jesus? Because Jesus Christ IS the WORD OF GOD manifest in the flesh.

 

[Haich]

With all due respect, Haich, you cannot even understand Biblical Hebrew (which is vastly different from “Hebrew” spoken since the 19th century) because it is a dead language....as is Aramaic, so what difference does it make if we could plop the very hand-written originals on a table before you?

You still would not know what they said, so what would that even prove?

Are you fluent in Koine Greek? (And by fluent, I mean: can you fully understand the spoken language, read & write it & speak it without having to translate it into another language in your head?)

If so, you can read the Textus Receptus (Received Text) that is the New Testament.
The English KJB we have today was translated by a panel of some of the most brilliant, learned scholars, diligently, and cross-scrutinized by many saved men.

Ultimately, the reader must decide for themselves if it is the truth. Without believing on Jesus Christ as THE ONLY begotten Son of God, you will not have the Holy Spirit to reveal its truth to you.

Should you believe, God PROVIDES the understanding, and show the truth unto you.

Why Jesus? Because Jesus Christ IS the WORD OF GOD manifest in the flesh.

View attachment 13331

You claim Jesus is God. You claim the trinity is real, yet once again, you deflect questions and refuse to answer simple questions.

How did your religious preachers translate the bible into English without any original manuscripts? Why do you guys choke when simple questions are asked?

You can read your English bible but it is world's away from the original word of Jesus, peace be upon him. Where are your train of narrators and translators? You can't account for many of the authors of your book. So with all due respect, if you aren't going to answer my questions then don't waste my time.

No one speaks classical Arabic, it is a dead language yet because the Qur'an was revealed in Arabic we have to study it. How on earth could the Qur'an have been translated, if no one knew or studied classical Arabic? So I may not be a native speaker of modern day Arabic, but I have a fair understanding of quranic Arabic, alhamdulilah, as do most Muslims.

Why have you posted English verses? Are you telling none of you have studied the original manuscripts which your leaders translated the bible from? Or do these manuscripts simply not exist?

It's very simple Claire. Evidence from original sources, not English transliterations.

 

[Haich]

If so, you can read the Textus Receptus (Received Text) that is the New Testament.
The English KJB we have today was translated by a panel of some of the most brilliant, learned scholars, diligently, and cross-scrutinized by many saved men.

Thank you, I'll look into this.

 

[Haich]

@Claire Rousseau

Sorry, there are like 6 authors of the Textus Receptus and it was revised from 1500s-1900s. Which versions do you accept?

All this revision of a simple text is mind boggling.

http://textusreceptusbibles.com/Editorial/TRAuthors

 

[manama]

If Christians actually took care of the Bible, its language would have never died. But they were too busy adding falsehood to it so they can make Christianity look more inviting to non-Christians of the west.

 

[Haich]

You still would not know what they said, so what would that even prove?

Are you fluent in Koine Greek? (And by fluent, I mean: can you fully understand the spoken language, read & write it & speak it without having to translate it into another language in your head?)

Do you know what they said? Do they teach what was said in church?

In order to claim something is true, you must prove your claims by citing sources from the original manuscripts. Otherwise, you have no proof.

 

[Haich]

Everything you guys rely on as proof, is revised and heavily doctored information passed down from millennia to millennia.

Where's the source? Where's the origin? In order to convince people of The authenticity of your book, you need to refer to the source.

 

[manama]

No one speaks classical Arabic, it is a dead language yet because the Qur'an was revealed in Arabic we have to study it. How on earth could the Qur'an have been translated, if no one knew or studied classical Arabic? So I may not be a native speaker of modern day Arabic, but I have a fair understanding of quranic Arabic, alhamdulilah, as do most Muslims.

^This. Quran's arabic is so poetic and more formal than actual Fuusha to the point even if you spoke it, you'd feel like you aren't worthy to speak in such a high, elegant manner. Yet everyone knows the language, everyone studies the language, they remember it and recite it by heart. Not because translating Quran will somehow change the meaning, BUT the fact that, it just isn't the same as me studying the translation and words of my local priest. Those are the words with whom God choose to speak to us and that is so powerful.

Christians can not do this because original language is dead, YET they don't even learn today's version of the language. They are going and trusting the words of people a few centuries ago while having no idea who those people ACTUALLY were. Many priests teaching Christianity today, even teaching correctly, knowing each and every verses by heart have been exposed to be child predators or deeply involved in freemasonry, How do we know the ones before weren't? I wouldn't accuse anyone, i didn't know them but the possibility exists. What are the chances that those people were not handpicked by Satan?

Our Prophet told us to be careful of religious scholars because they will mislead the masses, according to Christians on this site, Jesus p.b.u.h told them the same. Then how can they go ahead and believe in everyone and quote everyone BUT Jesus p.b.u.h. This whole issue is so messed up.

 

[Haich]

^This. Quran's arabic is so poetic and more formal than actual Fuusha to the point even if you spoke it, you'd feel like you aren't worthy to speak in such a high, elegant manner. Yet everyone knows the language, everyone studies the language, they remember it and recite it by heart. Not because translating Quran will somehow change the meaning, BUT the fact that, it just isn't the same as me studying the translation and words of my local priest. Those are the words with whom God choose to speak to us and that is so powerful.

Christians can not do this because original language is dead, YET they don't even learn today's version of the language. They are going and trusting the words of people a few centuries ago while having no idea who those people ACTUALLY were. Many priests teaching Christianity today, even teaching correctly, knowing each and every verses by heart have been exposed to be child predators or deeply involved in freemasonry, How do we know the ones before weren't? I wouldn't accuse anyone, i didn't know them but the possibility exists. What are the chances that those people were not handpicked by Satan?

Our Prophet told us to be careful of religious scholars because they will mislead the masses, according to Christians on this site, Jesus p.b.u.h told them the same. Then how can they go ahead and believe in everyone and quote everyone BUT Jesus p.b.u.h. This whole issue is so messed up.

That's why I love the Qur'an. It's so accessible and there are hundreds of ways to access classical Arabic. I'm not a native speaker but I'm learning so many root words and the grammar is just a miracle in itself. There's a lot missed in English translations and we're very blessed to have kept the classical Arabic alive. God preserves truth and the fact that this dead language which isn't spoken at all, is still alive and understood by billions of people around the world, is astounding.

We're also blessed to have many accessible scholars, who are able to explain the linguistic and grammatical importance of the Qur'an for those who wish to study it deeper. The amount of incredible imagery (I'm a language geek), from hyperbole, sibilances, frickatives to pathetic fallacies- all to illustrate and heighten the experience one has when reading the literal word of God. The language allows us to capture how deep the reality of existence is, how we were created and why we're here. It also details the stories of the prophets, judgement day and various other topics in such a clear and intricate manner. It just allows you to visualise clearly what came, what's come and what's to come, all by His will.

They attribute this unbelievable book to Mohammed (as) whose illiteracy wouldn't have allowed him to even read or write a single letter! Nor to even conjure up such a marvellous phrase of poetic excellence.

I could honestly do a linguistic analysis on one verse and write about it forever. For lovers of literature, it truly is the most poetic book I've ever read. Remarkable!

 

[grateful servant]

That's why I love the Qur'an. It's so accessible and there are hundreds of ways to access classical Arabic. I'm not a native speaker but I'm learning so many root words and the grammar is just a miracle in itself. There's a lot missed in English translations and we're very blessed to have kept the classical Arabic alive. God preserves truth and the fact that this dead language which isn't spoken at all, is still alive and understood by billions of people around the world, is astounding.

We're also blessed to have many accessible scholars, who are able to explain the linguistic and grammatical importance of the Qur'an for those who wish to study it deeper. The amount of incredible imagery (I'm a language geek), from hyperbole, sibilances, frickatives to pathetic fallacies- all to illustrate and heighten the experience one has when reading the literal word of God. The language allows us to capture how deep the reality of existence is, how we were created and why we're here. It also details the stories of the prophets, judgement day and various other topics in such a clear and intricate manner. It just allows you to visualise clearly what came, what's come and what's to come, all by His will.

They attribute this unbelievable book to Mohammed (as) whose illiteracy wouldn't have allowed him to even read or write a single letter! Nor to even conjure up such a marvellous phrase of poetic excellence.

I could honestly do a linguistic analysis on one verse and write about it forever. For lovers of literature, it truly is the most poetic book I've ever read. Remarkable!

What a beautiful testament, barak Allahu feeki Haich!

 

[Claire Rousseau]

You claim Jesus is God. You claim the trinity is real, yet once again, you deflect questions and refuse to answer simple questions.

How did your religious preachers translate the bible into English without any original manuscripts? Why do you guys choke when simple questions are asked?

You can read your English bible but it is world's away from the original word of Jesus, peace be upon him. Where are your train of narrators and translators? You can't account for many of the authors of your book. So with all due respect, if you aren't going to answer my questions then don't waste my time.

No one speaks classical Arabic, it is a dead language yet because the Qur'an was revealed in Arabic we have to study it. How on earth could the Qur'an have been translated, if no one knew or studied classical Arabic? So I may not be a native speaker of modern day Arabic, but I have a fair understanding of quranic Arabic, alhamdulilah, as do most Muslims.

Why have you posted English verses? Are you telling none of you have studied the original manuscripts which your leaders translated the bible from? Or do these manuscripts simply not exist?

It's very simple Claire. Evidence from original sources, not English transliterations.

Haich dear....I am certain that the author of the Bible is God Himself, Who spoke through His prophets and men moved by His Holy Spirit.

I can give you the names of the translators, as well as the prophets who physically penned the Holy Bible leading all the way back to Moses, the first scribe.

But what difference will it make to you??

Will that be enough evidence for you to believe it is the truth? I do not think it would be, for you. Because it is not a matter of the physical people who took ink to scroll...it is fundamentally a matter of faith.

You claim Jesus is God. You claim the trinity is real, yet once again, you deflect questions and refuse to answer simple questions.

How did your religious preachers translate the bible into English without any original manuscripts? Why do you guys choke when simple questions are asked?

You can read your English bible but it is world's away from the original word of Jesus, peace be upon him. Where are your train of narrators and translators? You can't account for many of the authors of your book. So with all due respect, if you aren't going to answer my questions then don't waste my time.

No one speaks classical Arabic, it is a dead language yet because the Qur'an was revealed in Arabic we have to study it. How on earth could the Qur'an have been translated, if no one knew or studied classical Arabic? So I may not be a native speaker of modern day Arabic, but I have a fair understanding of quranic Arabic, alhamdulilah, as do most Muslims.

Why have you posted English verses? Are you telling none of you have studied the original manuscripts which your leaders translated the bible from? Or do these manuscripts simply not exist?

It's very simple Claire. Evidence from original sources, not English transliterations.

You do not speak/understand the original languages so WHAT can it prove to YOU, since you do not believe??

Your problem is lack of FAITH.

NO amount of proof can satisfy you because you have already decided that the Holy Bible CANNOT be true on the mere basis that you do not understand it.

And the reason you do not understand it is because the natural man CANNOT. It is spiritually discerned.

Before I believed I couldn’t understand it either. Once I believed it was as if a veil was lifted, and truth was revealed.

But it IS the TRUTH whether you believe it, don’t believe it, like it, love it or hate it.

Peace.