Does Jesus/Yahweh love us or is he stalking us?

[DevaWolf]

I answered your question as to why there are so many interpretations from God's book. And it is because the wicked will never ever understand God's book and that is why there are so many interpretations from it.

So i did not throw any stones at you but since you received stones... you must have stoned yourself ?

I thought you said I was wicked, which is not such a strange idea as you quoted me specifically. But no matter.

But reading on to what you said now, the wicked are also among the Christians then because they do not agree on what scripture means either? How then does one know whether they have found the right form of Christianity? On this board there is no unity among Christians, so for an outsider it does not look very convincing that they do have spiritual discernment.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I thought you said I was wicked, which is not such a strange idea as you quoted me specifically. But no matter.

But reading on to what you said now, the wicked are also among the Christians then because they do not agree on what scripture means either? How then does one know whether they have found the right form of Christianity? On this board there is no unity among Christians, so for an outsider it does not look very convincing that they do have spiritual discernment.

Imagine a market flooded with fake currency. It doesn’t mean that there is no real one. The efforts of the forgers, the loud voices proclaiming their unique access to the “right” currency etc do nothing other than to suggest two things:-

A real currency exists.

It is important enough to fight over.

Don’t believe me? Show me the efforts the US is making to clamp down on fake $49 dollar bills!

 

[Camidria]

But reading on to what you said now, the wicked are also among the Christians then because they do not agree on what scripture means either? How then does one know whether they have found the right form of Christianity? On this board there is no unity among Christians, so for an outsider it does not look very convincing that they do have spiritual discernment.

It is truly sad that there is some disunity, but it is because we are all unique and in this day and age we have not yet learned how to work together and be in unity as a body. 1 Corinthians 12 talks about this - each person has a unique function just like your hands or your eye or your feet has a unique and different function than the rest of your body. In the end as a person you cannot function fully without all the parts of your body, as the world is progressing God is reuniting Christians and showing us how to work together as a body does - but it takes time because of our human faults.

We might disagree on some points here and there but in essence we all believe that you have to have a living relationship with Jesus, believe in Him and allow Him through His Spirit to sanctify you by becoming a new creation in order to be saved - a real relationship with Jesus changes you, gives you a new heart an understanding. People disagree on the balance because of their different functions in the body of believers, people disagree because God is still busy sanctifying them from a lot of different things.

Some people talk out of their hurt and betrayal, some talk out of experience of seeing people that say they love the Lord, but they just live as they want anyways, some talk out of a place of only experiencing a church as a tight knit family and havn't experienced people that are false, some talk out of a place where the church has utterly betrayed them and has taught false unbiblical truths (super sad) - and so these things shape our view and causes us to be in disunity.

But all in all our focus should not be on people and what they do, it should be on Jesus as He is the only example of what people should be like.

 

[JoChris]

I thought you said I was wicked, which is not such a strange idea as you quoted me specifically. But no matter.

But reading on to what you said now, the wicked are also among the Christians then because they do not agree on what scripture means either? How then does one know whether they have found the right form of Christianity? On this board there is no unity among Christians, so for an outsider it does not look very convincing that they do have spiritual discernment.

What is your actual definition of a Christian?

 

[Allegra]

I thought you said I was wicked, which is not such a strange idea as you quoted me specifically. But no matter.

But reading on to what you said now, the wicked are also among the Christians then because they do not agree on what scripture means either? How then does one know whether they have found the right form of Christianity? On this board there is no unity among Christians, so for an outsider it does not look very convincing that they do have spiritual discernment.

Yes I agree and understand what you’re saying that’s why I don’t really like to argue about doctrines and I also agree with what Camidria said.
The thing is when we discuss what we disagree it is often becoming a strife and when there is strife there is pride. No one is willing to agree to disagree and stop the debates. I feel like some people more obsessed with arguing about doctrines than witnessing to non believers. Sigh.. I don’t know.. Maybe that’s just my feeling.

 

[JoChris]

Yes I agree and understand what you’re saying that’s why I don’t really like to argue about doctrines and I also agree with what Camidria said.
The thing is when we discuss what we disagree it is often becoming a strife and when there is strife there is pride. No one is willing to agree to disagree and stop the debates. I feel like some people more obsessed with arguing about doctrines than witnessing to non believers. Sigh.. I don’t know.. Maybe that’s just my feeling.

It is like walking a tightrope at times. There are some doctrines that are non-negotiable that the average non-Christian can't understand the importance of at all.
Several individuals on this forum who call themselves Christians would never be viewed as Christians by anyone who understands the Nicene Creed (and why it summarises core doctrines and contradicts heresies). https://www.gotquestions.org/Nicene-creed.html

I don't think I have seen any "minor" doctrine disagreements on VC forums other than end-times worldview variety.

 

[DevaWolf]

What is your actual definition of a Christian?

I would think a Christian is one who believes in Jesus and thinks the Bible tells them the nature of truth.

That makes all people responding here who say they are Christian a Christian in my eyes, yet not all of the posters here agree that they are all to be considered Christian because for example some believe in grace and others in works.

 

[Allegra]

It is like walking a tightrope at times. There are some doctrines that are non-negotiable that the average non-Christian can't understand the importance of at all.
Several individuals on this forum who call themselves Christians would never be viewed as Christians by anyone who understands the Nicene Creed (and why it summarises core doctrines and contradicts heresies). https://www.gotquestions.org/Nicene-creed.html

I don't think I have seen any "minor" doctrine disagreements on VC forums other than end-times worldview variety.

I should’ve made it clear I’m not only talking about VC but also other forums, Reddit, and Christians discord servers. The discord servers is much worse even atheists could come and stir up Christians there and then laughing and mocking them when they got banned.

Yes of course discussions and disagreements bound to happen but doesn’t mean it have to become a strife. When things become personal attack and pettiness, we should stop instead of keep forcing the debates to continue because it won’t benefit anyone esp those who’s watching.

 

[JoChris]

I would think a Christian is one who believes in Jesus and thinks the Bible tells them the nature of truth.

That makes all people responding here who say they are Christian a Christian in my eyes, yet not all of the posters here agree that they are all to be considered Christian because for example some believe in grace and others in works.

Do you consider bible student to be a Christian?

 

[JoChris]

I should’ve made it clear I’m not only talking about VC but also other forums, Reddit, and Christians discord servers. The discord servers is much worse even atheists could come and stir up Christians there and then laughing and mocking them when they got banned.

Yes of course discussions and disagreements bound to happen but doesn’t mean it have to become a strife. When things become personal attack and pettiness, we should stop instead of keep forcing the debates to continue because it won’t benefit anyone esp those who’s watching.

Yes, personal abuse by Christians should never be excused.
Arguments can be robust and quite cranky even between pastors on Christian-only forums.

 

[DevaWolf]

Do you consider bible student to be a Christian?

I think Bible student is promoting a rather radical, possibly sectarian, division of mainstream Christinanity.

 

[JoChris]

I think Bible student is promoting a rather radical, possibly sectarian, division of mainstream Christinanity.

John Anthony Hill claims to be Jesus reincarnated. [Nowhere is this taught in bible!!!] https://deuteronomy4verse2.wordpress.com/2015/10/19/christ-messiah-mahdi-is-here-now-reposted-improved/
http://jahtruth.net/emmau2.htm
See claim that Jesus will come under a new name 8.24.
https://archive.org/details/TheWayHomeOrFaceTheFire/page/n43
Jahtruth pretends the Quran and bible are compatible.. where doctrines contradict Jahtruth he invented his own bible mistranslation (King of king's bible)

There is nothing in a Christian bible that supports Hill's personal delusions. You have a real life cult believer spreading his cult's propaganda. Thankfully it is so weird that I doubt it will ever spread far outside UK, especially after JAH dies.

I went through this on a much earlier thread but had to stop when It became impossible to continue wasting s much time. https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/jahtruths-christmas-teachings.5251/

 

[DevaWolf]

John Anthony Hill claims to be Jesus reincarnated. [Nowhere is this taught in bible!!!] https://deuteronomy4verse2.wordpress.com/2015/10/19/christ-messiah-mahdi-is-here-now-reposted-improved/
http://jahtruth.net/emmau2.htm
See claim that Jesus will come under a new name 8.24.
https://archive.org/details/TheWayHomeOrFaceTheFire/page/n43
Jahtruth pretends the Quran and bible are compatible.. where doctrines contradict Jahtruth he invented his own bible mistranslation (King of king's bible)

There is nothing in a Christian bible that supports Hill's personal delusions. You have a real life cult believer spreading his cult's propaganda. Thankfully it is so weird that I doubt it will ever spread far outside UK, especially after JAH dies.

I went through this on a much earlier thread but had to stop when It became impossible to continue wasting s much time. https://vigilantcitizenforums.com/threads/jahtruths-christmas-teachings.5251/

Well I thought it was something like that. I don't believe anyone who claims to be Jesus.

 

[DevaWolf]

Imagine a market flooded with fake currency. It doesn’t mean that there is no real one. The efforts of the forgers, the loud voices proclaiming their unique access to the “right” currency etc do nothing other than to suggest two things:-

A real currency exists.

It is important enough to fight over.

Don’t believe me? Show me the efforts the US is making to clamp down on fake $49 dollar bills!

This is a good example, I understand this metaphor. Thank you for that.

 

[Karlysymon]

Christians will love a man they can’t see unconditionally while receiving nothing in return and reject love when they see it in person.

While this is an interesting observation, it is practically impossible

If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen, [d]how can he love God whom he has not seen? 21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also. 1 John 4:20-21

Why create any of this? For God’s selfish ego and entertainment? Why the games? Why create something just to place it in this freak show we call reality just to kill it if it doesn’t believe in the right religion?

If your conception of all knowing God is correct free will is impossible. We’re worse than automatons we are automatons with an illusion of choice.

It is a universal law that the creation cannot be greater than its creator. So if you think that you are good enough, not to have the world as it is for entertainment and that if you were God, you wouldn’t play this game, what then makes you think that the freak show that is the state of the world is His entertainment? You cannot be morally superior to your own Creator and you cannot be better than He is because He is the source of good. If you argue that it is possible for you to be morally superior than God is, you won’t be the first nor the last to make that claim. Countless others have gone before you and a one patron saint comes to mind.

The state of the world is and will be a testament, in this age and the age to come, against all those who think that they could do a better job than God did. He isn’t the one raining down chemtrails, raping babies or running Monsanto. Humans are doing all that. People complain a lot that freewill is the problem and that God should have known better by creating us as automatons. Well, TPTB, very well aware of such sentiments, have taken it upon themselves to do what they think God should have done a long time ago or in the beginning…..by ridding everyone of their freewill and turning us into zombies. It hit me, while watching Divergent, that the movies aren’t primarily about predictive programming but to also sell the idea to everyone that freewill/”human nature is the problem” (the words of Kate Winslet’s character)….selling the idea just as Minority Report sold the idea of pre-crime and that it is okay as long as it stops the terrorists in their tracks. For anyone who thinks that freewill is the problem, s/he should be first in line for a mind-wipe and/or a chip.

 

[justjess]

It isn’t that we shouldn’t have free will.. it’s that free will should not be usurped by a god who decides before we are even born whether we will accept him or not.

We do not have the free will to accept salvation if god has decided that we will not receive the spirit necessary to accept it - for no cause.

Also I’m really going to have to say this idea that everyone on earth is a hateful dirty sinner is masochist brainwashing. I do not kill, steal, covet, disrespect my elders, lie, I am not violent, I am loyal to my husband, I take care of my children.. if I had to go to confession today I do not know what I would even confess.

As for my youth that’s all already been confessed and absolved. I’ve sinned in my life but I am not by any means an active sinner and haven’t been in years. Unless your counting stuff like eating pork... idk.

Also I agree with the statement from @TokiEl regarding the words in red in the Bible, that is all I pay attention to.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

Also I’m really going to have to say this idea that everyone on earth is a hateful dirty sinner is masochist brainwashing.

Jews do not have the cash cow, Original Sin, that was invented to have the rube part with his money, --- indulgences, --- to pay his way out of sin and hell.

How the rubes do not see it shows how blinding their faith of fools is.

Regards
DL

 

[Karlysymon]

It isn’t that we shouldn’t have free will.. it’s that free will should not be usurped by a god who decides before we are even born whether we will accept him or not.

We do not have the free will to accept salvation if god has decided that we will not receive the spirit necessary to accept it - for no cause.

Also I’m really going to have to say this idea that everyone on earth is a hateful dirty sinner is masochist brainwashing. I do not kill, steal, covet, disrespect my elders, lie, I am not violent, I am loyal to my husband, I take care of my children.. if I had to go to confession today I do not know what I would even confess.

As for my youth that’s all already been confessed and absolved. I’ve sinned in my life but I am not by any means an active sinner and haven’t been in years. Unless your counting stuff like eating pork... idk.

Also I agree with the statement from @TokiEl regarding the words in red in the Bible, that is all I pay attention to.

The Cross, as a historical event, is the strongest argument against what you said. If the majority of God's creation is going to be sent to hell as predetermined, then what was the point of sending Christ to die on the cross so that "whoever believes in Him may be saved"? The Cross had implications, not just for man but for the Godhead as well. If someone argues that the cross was just a game to God, I reiterate that you cannot be morally superior to God.

As for not being a hard-core sinner, how do we know you won't be the things you listed in the next 5 yrs? It is why transgression of the Moral Law demanded the life of the transgressor. Sin makes one an enemy of God, those around you and oneself.

 

[justjess]

I don’t argue against the cross. The Bible does, or atleast a whole bunch of different denominations of Christianity do when they insist on predetermination.

It isn’t for you to know, you don’t even know me. I, however, do know myself and know I have zero desire to do any of those things therefore I won’t do them. Self control is remarkably underrated.

 

[Gnostic Christian Bishop]

If someone argues that the cross was just a game to God, I reiterate that you cannot be morally superior to God.

Even you are morally superior to those like your god who use genocide and kill when they could just as easily cure.

Only barbaric immoral idiots will see justice in a god who demands his son's death to forgive us when he could just forgive us outright.

Are you not more moral than the satanic Yahweh?

Given his power, would you also kill instead of cure, or would you follow the way Jesus said he came to do, which was to look after the needy and not those who did not need his help?

Would you help them or kill them?

Regards
DL