Comparison of JAHtruth's "The way home or face the Fire" to the bible (part 2)

[Lyfe]

This is a very tired old argument that "Christians" use to basically give up making any effort to keep The Law. "If I've already sinned once, then I might as well keep sinning as often as I like, since (allegedly) no one can keep The Law". This followed by "and anyway, Jesus paid for my sins so that I now have the freedom to sin with impunity. Why would anyone wish to not have that 'freedom' to continue sinning/doing whatever I believe is right in my own eyes (Deut. 12:8)?"

The only way to get to know Father (God) is to spend time with Him. To obey Him. To ask for His Guidance with each and every little thing, all day long. It is such an amazing experience that once you begin you'll wonder why you ever stopped or why you didn't start earlier. He can bless every project with a level of perfection that was previously thought to be impossible. But it requires drawing closer to Him through discipline and obedience, exactly as it repeatedly says in Scripture.

Once you are on this narrow path (The Way - Matt. 7:13-14), you won't want to do anything that is unlawful/sinful, realizing that The Law is absolutely perfect in every way. It has the perfect system of governance, the perfect system of justice, the perfect agricultural policy, the perfect economic policy and the perfect healthy diet, all of which are designed to provide everyone with a crime and poverty free existence, while protecting and working with our natural environment.

Even the slightest shortcut you won't want to take, because you know that Father would find it offensive, having come to the understanding that everything Father does is purposeful and for the collective good, and that the little things are often as important if not more important than the big things. It is through the little things that we can easily be tempted. THAT is what James 2:10 is really talking about.

It is the striving for perfection that is absolutely necessary (Matt. 5:48). Father will draw closer to anyone who is doing that (James 4:8) and help in every way possible to ensure that you don't break The Law, by pointing things out to you in real time, i.e. in the moment.

The alternative is to remain in slavery/bondage to sin, gripped and manipulated by fear.


The question it sounds like you need to ask is this: if YOU decided that you were dedicated to doing Father's Will, then what is it that could possibly stop you from doing that, other than your "self"? Father has promised to help anyone who helps themselves to Him through obedience to His Law, by giving them the Holy Spirit in relation to how well they choose to obey. And His Promises are ALWAYS kept.

Again, if YOU (the spiritual-Being) feels God has prompted you to do something, and you truly Love God, what could possibly stop you?


How can one resign themselves to a life imprisoned by sin because of an irrational fear of failure? How could Father possibly fail any of us IF we set our minds at ONE with His Mind, to DO His Will? With Father (God), ALL things are possible.


And you would again be in error, not correctly understanding what Paul has said. Paul NEVER did away with The Law, nor taught anyone that they didn't have to keep The Law. Do you not care enough about doing God's Will to take the time to study His Law, asking Him (God) for HIS Guidance on what is proper?

IF your goal is to do His Will, Father WILL help you find the answer, when you're ready to receive it.


The ONLY Way to remain in Father's Good Graces is to strive for perfection in everything that you do, as if He is with you at all times, watching over everything you are thinking, saying and doing which, of course, He is.

God is NOT an idiot; He did NOT give us a law no one can keep, nor hope that we would give up. Nor did Father send His Prophets, His Firstborn Son and the Disciples and Apostles to remind us that we need to remember and return to His Law, if that wasn't exactly what we all NEED to do.

I think you are making the presumption that acknowledging the reality of sin in the life of Christians is the same as justifying sin. I am not. The reality is that since you and I are both guilty of daily sins we cannot rightfully claim to keep The Law, because sin is transgression from the law. If we sin we break the law. Would you agree or disagree with that logic?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

God so loved the entire world that He gave us the Lamb of God, to pay for our past sins (Rom. 3:25) and provide us with a NEW Covenant. The terms and conditions however of the New Covenant are the same as that of the Old Covenant regarding the National and Moral Law that God gave us: we must ALL keep God's Law and enforce His Statutes, Judgments and Commandments ONLY.

Aside from the fact that “Tetelastai” means “Paid in full”, this ‘part-payment’ plan of salvation you outline with grace before conversion and legalism afterwards might lead some to conclude that their best chance of eternal life might be to repent just before death so they can’t blow it by impure thoughts or wayward actions?

 

[Lyfe]

Aside from the fact that “Tetelastai” means “Paid in full”, this ‘part-payment’ plan of salvation you outline with grace before conversion and legalism afterwards might lead some to conclude that their best chance of eternal life might be to repent just before death so they can’t blow it by impure thoughts or wayward actions?

View attachment 86864

...sadly many are blinded by this works or merit based type of thinking in regards to salvation. It rears its head all the time in conversations. This idea that leads one to believe they are a good person therefore they should or will go to heaven. Freeman like many others can't see that the demand and requirement of the law can only ever show their guilt and how far completely short they fall of God's glory.

I keep bringing up the scorecard analogy. If you need a perfect score for entrance then a 99/100 is still as useless as a 3/100. I'm talking about God's kingdom obviously. We only get in through the perfect atonement of Christ.

 

[A Freeman]

Aside from the fact that “Tetelastai” means “Paid in full”, this ‘part-payment’ plan of salvation you outline with grace before conversion and legalism afterwards might lead some to conclude that their best chance of eternal life might be to repent just before death so they can’t blow it by impure thoughts or wayward actions?

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath fore-ordained [to be] an atonement through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins THAT ARE PAST, through the forbearance of God;

When someone is gracious and kind enough to make a ONE-TIME PAYMENT for the debt of a close friend who got themselves into financial trouble, to provide that friend with a clean-slate, free from debt, they very obviously aren't offering to do the same again and again. One time means one time (please read Hebrews 10).

It takes an extremely ungrateful individual to run up his debt again after his friend paid it off to free him from the bondage to his former debt.

As it says in Scripture, the ONLY Way to be born again of God is to repent, i.e. stop sinning/breaking The Law (1 John 3:4-10). Likewise that is the only way to receive His Holy Spirit (Acts 5:29-32) and to be able to see the Kingdom of God (John 3:3-7). So everything depends upon remembering and returning to The Law that God gave us (Mal. 4), to keep from making a mockery of Christ's Sacrifice.

There is no other Way. All who don't return to keeping The Law will burn on the Last Day, as we've been warned for thousands of years.

Learn to believe God and His Word/Christ instead of believing in the traditions of men.

 

[A Freeman]

...sadly many are blinded by this works or merit based type of thinking in regards to salvation. It rears its head all the time in conversations. This idea that leads one to believe they are a good person therefore they should or will go to heaven. Freeman like many others can't see that the demand and requirement of the law can only ever show their guilt and how far completely short they fall of God's glory.

I keep bringing up the scorecard analogy. If you need a perfect score for entrance then a 99/100 is still as useless as a 3/100. I'm talking about God's kingdom obviously. We only get in through the perfect atonement of Christ.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his WORKS.

Revelation 20:12-15
20:12 And I saw the "Dead", small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another Book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life: and the "Dead" were judged out of those things which were written in the Books, according to their works.
20:13 And the "sea" gave up the "Dead" which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their WORKS.
20:14 And death and hell were cast into the "Lake of Fire". This is the second death.
20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the "Lake of Fire".

Given the option to believe in the misinterpretations of the letters of Paul, or to believe what Christ has explicitly told us may seem like a tough choice. But it isn't.

Choose Christ. Keep The Law/Commandments of God. There is no other way to get to know and love Christ.

 

[JoChris]

This question has been previously asked, but remains unanswered:

DO YOU KEEP THE LAW/COMMANDMENTS OF GOD (found in the first five books of the Bible, namely Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy?

This question is now being extended to all who post here against The Word of God (Matt. 12:30) to challenge their qualifications to critique God's Word which, according to Scripture, they are incapable of correctly understanding.

God will only reward those who obey Him with His GIFT of the Holy Spirit in increasing measure, so it should be self-evident that anyone who isn't striving to crucify/deny/destroy their human "self" on a daily basis, to be able to please God by keeping His Law and doing His Will, is completely unqualified to talk about Scripture, i.e. something they know NOTHING about.

If you aren't denying your "self" daily, then you are automatically denying God's GIFT of His Holy Spirit (Luke 12:10). Please consider this very carefully (Rom. 8:5-14).

Luke 2:14 Glory to God in the highest, and on Earth peace, good will toward men.

When relevant TWHOFTF "verses" are relevant to the bible's Commandments, that will certainly be discussed.

I am letting you know ahead IMO why AJH totally is off target, and that is understandable since the Holy Spirit does not appear to exist in his mind.
2 Corinthians 3

 

[A Freeman]

When relevant TWHOFTF "verses" are relevant to the bible's Commandments, that will certainly be discussed.

I am letting you know ahead IMO why AJH totally is off target, and that is understandable since the Holy Spirit does not appear to exist in his mind.
2 Corinthians 3

You were asked whether you keep The Law/Commandments of God because it bears directly on your qualifications to understand, much less critique ANYTHING spiritual, i.e. Scripture (which is ALL spiritual). If you don't even understand the difference between unlawful, man-made legislation and God's Law, then it's highly unlikely you keep God's Law. And if you don't keep God's Law, then you clearly aren't inspired by the Holy Spirit.

That's why you should be answering these questions, so that you can start to be honest with yourself and others. It would also help you understand your own motives, e.g. why you believe anyone needs your opinion about a book you clearly don't understand and have chosen to attack out of malice.

If The Way home or face The Fire by JAH was as "off-target" as you are falsely claiming it is, then all you should need to do is to post the actual text and leave it at that.

Your personal(?) commentary/satanic spin is not needed, nor is it helping you or others. You would do well to actually study, learn and practice what it says in the little book (Rev. 10:6-10) so that you can begin to have the Holy Spirit guiding you through Scriptures instead of the Opposer (Satan).

Please consider all of this carefully, as if your real, eternal life depended upon it which, of course, it does.

God Bless.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You were asked whether you keep The Law/Commandments of God because it bears directly on your qualifications to understand, much less critique ANYTHING spiritual, i.e. Scripture (which is ALL spiritual). If you don't even understand the difference between unlawful, man-made legislation and God's Law, then it's highly unlikely you keep God's Law. And if you don't keep God's Law, then you clearly aren't inspired by the Holy Spirit.

That's why you should be answering these questions, so that you can start to be honest with yourself and others. It would also help you understand your own motives, e.g. why you believe anyone needs your opinion about a book you clearly don't understand and have chosen to attack out of malice.

If The Way home or face The Fire by JAH was as "off-target" as you are falsely claiming it is, then all you should need to do is to post the actual text and leave it at that.

Your personal(?) commentary/satanic spin is not needed, nor is it helping you or others. You would do well to actually study, learn and practice what it says in the little book (Rev. 10:6-10) so that you can begin to have the Holy Spirit guiding you through Scriptures instead of the Opposer (Satan).

Please consider all of this carefully, as if your real, eternal life depended upon it which, of course, it does.

God Bless.

Isaiah 6


6 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.

4 And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.

6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

———-

Anyone who has encountered God’s white-hot holiness knows that their own righteousness is as filthy rags. None of us are righteous. He who says he was no sin deceived himself. Without a saviour, our sin will never be purged and our iniquity will remain on our account.

The Prayer of Humble Access, 1552

“We do not presume to come to this thy Table, O merciful Lord, trusting in our own righteousness, but in thy manifold and great mercies. We are not worthy so much as to gather up the crumbs under thy Table. But thou art the same Lord, whose property is always to have mercy: Grant us therefore, gracious Lord, so to eat the flesh of thy dear Son Jesus Christ, and to drink his blood, that our sinful bodies may be made clean by his body, and our souls washed through his most precious blood, and that we may evermore dwell in him, and he in us. Amen.”

 

[lightseeker]

There is no need to go to any man-made temple (Acts 7:48; 17:24), nor to make substitute animal sacrifices, which were replaced with "self" sacrifice at the cross, when the priesthood was reduced from many to ONE High-Priest for all-time: Christ (Heb. 5:5-10; 6:20; 7:1-3). From that point forward, the animal sacrificed is the human "self" that you live inside of, the sacrifices are DAILY (Matt. 10:38, Mark 8:34, Luke 9:23, Luke 14:26-27, Gal. 2:20, Sura 6:162, Sura 92:18-21), and the temple is you.

Ephesians 2:13-18
2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Jesus.
2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition [between us];
2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] The Law of Commandments [contained] in ORDINANCES (circumcision); for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;
2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Colossians 2:13-14
2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath He revitalized together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Anyone that argues against keeping The Law/Commandments of God, or mistakenly believes that All-Knowing God gave us a Law that we cannot keep, doesn't know or love God nor His Christ, and isn't being honest with themselves nor with anyone else.

John 17:3 And THIS is Life Eternal, that they might KNOW Thee the ONLY True God, and Christ the Saviour, whom Thou hast sent.

So which of these do you keep? None? And you claim you keep the law?
- the sin offering, burnt offering, whole offering, heave offering, Passover sacrifice, meal offering, wave offering, peace offering, drink offering, thank offering, dough offering, incense offering, red heifer, scapegoat, first fruits, etc.

also you stated you observe all the Jewish feast days, we both know you don’t, and they’re not easy to keep. It wouldn’t be possible for you to as they written in the bible.

https://www.chabad.org/holidays/default_cdo/jewish/holidays.htm

youre just a Pharisee basically who thinks he justified by the law and also condemns Jesus for making himself equal to God, which he never denied of course, Paul even said Jesus created all the beings in the heavens which means he’s not an archangel, as we’ve both established in the past, you have no answer to this, nor to why all the angels worship Jesus Christ, not God alone, nor to how Jesus will remain after creation passes away, including all the archangels. Don’t think I forgot how you dodged these questions which utterly annihilated your false doctrine. I didn’t

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

So which of these do you keep? None? And you claim you keep the law?
- the sin offering, burnt offering, whole offering, heave offering, Passover sacrifice, meal offering, wave offering, peace offering, drink offering, thank offering, dough offering, incense offering, red heifer, scapegoat, first fruits, etc.

also you stated you observe all the Jewish feast days, we both know you don’t, and they’re not easy to keep. It wouldn’t be possible for you to as they written in the bible.

https://www.chabad.org/holidays/default_cdo/jewish/holidays.htm

youre just a Pharisee basically who thinks he justified by the law and also condemns Jesus for making himself equal to God, which he never denied of course, Paul even said Jesus created all the beings in the heavens which means he’s not an archangel, as we’ve both established in the past, you have no answer to this, nor to why all the angels worship Jesus Christ, not God alone, nor to how Jesus will remain after creation passes away, including all the archangels. Don’t think I forgot how you dodged these questions which utterly annihilated your false doctrine. I didn’t

I think you have hit the nail on the head @lightseeker

A pharisaical spirit pervades much of Islam and is also present in legalistic aberrations of Christianity. The concept of salvation by works unites both faiths, but at the back of it is the Pharisee spirit, and Jesus didn’t like that one at all!!!




Matthew 23:27 - New King James Version

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.

 

[Infinityloop]

From the oft-quoted passage from Matthew 5:
Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Psalm 1
Blessed is the man
who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners,
nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
2 but his delight is in the law of the Lord,
and on his law he meditates day and night.

Following the law is not what Jesus is attributed to have rebuked the Pharisees (of which he was likely one himself) for, rather making up new laws, corruption and hypocrisy are the main things that he criticizes them of according to the text of the NT.

 

[Infinityloop]

So which of these do you keep? None? And you claim you keep the law?
- the sin offering, burnt offering, whole offering, heave offering, Passover sacrifice, meal offering, wave offering, peace offering, drink offering, thank offering, dough offering, incense offering, red heifer, scapegoat, first fruits, etc.

also you stated you observe all the Jewish feast days, we both know you don’t, and they’re not easy to keep. It wouldn’t be possible for you to as they written in the bible.

https://www.chabad.org/holidays/default_cdo/jewish/holidays.htm

youre just a Pharisee basically who thinks he justified by the law and also condemns Jesus for making himself equal to God, which he never denied of course, Paul even said Jesus created all the beings in the heavens which means he’s not an archangel, as we’ve both established in the past, you have no answer to this, nor to why all the angels worship Jesus Christ, not God alone, nor to how Jesus will remain after creation passes away, including all the archangels. Don’t think I forgot how you dodged these questions which utterly annihilated your false doctrine. I didn’t

Yes obviously the Jahtruthers don't follow the (extant) Torah, that is quite obvious.

It's not an impossibility to follow but you'd need to be living on a farm or something similar for it to be practically experienced. Most people don't have access to livestock in that way and most livestock in western countries are for the dairy and meat industry.

 

[Infinityloop]

Deuteronomy 30 says:
“For this commandment which I command you this day is not too hard for you, neither is it far off. 12 It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
15 “See, I have set before you this day life and good, death and evil. 16 If you obey the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you this day, by loving the Lord your God, by walking in his ways, and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his ordinances, then you shall live and multiply, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you are entering to take possession of it. 17 But if your heart turns away, and you will not hear, but are drawn away to worship other gods and serve them

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

From the oft-quoted passage from Matthew 5:
Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Psalm 1
Blessed is the man
who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners,
nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
2 but his delight is in the law of the Lord,
and on his law he meditates day and night.

Following the law is not what Jesus is attributed to have rebuked the Pharisees (of which he was likely one himself) for, rather making up new laws, corruption and hypocrisy are the main things that he criticizes them of according to the text of the NT.

Matthew 11:11

11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

If John was the greatest, living under the Law, there was still a gap between him and the least in the kingdom of heaven. I think I know why, but do you?

 

[Lyfe]

Galatians 3:16-29
English Standard Version
16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

19 Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20 Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave[a] nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.

 

[Infinityloop]

None of what I've posted is in favor of the Jahtruth cult, to be sure. But I am most certain that Christians almost unanimously do not have much of an appreciation of the Torah, as it is only used in the manner of obscure future prophetic allusions rather than taken as a thing in itself to appreciate and contemplate over.

 

[Infinityloop]

21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22 But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

Proverbs 6:23
For the commandment is a lamp, the Law is light,
and reproofs that discipline are the way to life.

 

[lightseeker]

Well Jesus made the pharisees rage by telling them their following the rules was worthless, one person who repented in Christs name was justified more than all their self righteous law keeping. Pharisees who observed the Law externally by following the prescribed actions but did not keep the Law in their soul. The fulfillment of the entire Law is to love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and the neighbour as the self, and it is possible to perform all the feasts, follow the rules, but not have the light of love in the soul. So one can obsess over the rules but internally not keep the law. That’s why christ said they looked good on the outside, but in the soul were ravenous wolves. Obviously, it’s the law in the soul that is what matters, because man was not made for the sabbath
A good example is when a Pharisee passed by an injured person on the road, in order to preserve his ritual purity by not touching a Samaritan, but Jesus said the person who stopped and had mercy on him was justified beyond his keeping of the rules.
This conflict is at the root of the gospels.

 

[The Sojourner]

Jesus made the pharisees rage not by telling them their keeping of The Law was useless, but because He condemned them for their writing of the Talmud (their "traditions" of the elders) which was forbidden in The Law (Deut. 4:2) and following it instead of The Law which they did to make the Law/Commandments of God of none effect. He also told them that none of them were keeping The Law and asked them why they went about to kill him.

Therefore Jesus made them rage by telling them that they were guilty of breaking The Law with their tradition, and that they had therefore not kept The Law.

 

[Infinityloop]

The "law vs grace" thing for is of particular historical concern because both in the 1st century (as well as certain cults in the middle ages) and in the past century, it has been the cause of extreme antinomianism (nowadays liberalism).

If you put yourself in the eyes of a 1st century Jewish person, once you abolish the Torah what morality is there left?