Charismatic Christianity and the New Age

[Red Sky at Morning]

I have sat on this question for a long time and have heard voices from both sides of the debate on it.

Did the gifts of the Holy Spirit cease after the apostolic era or does God still move amongst the Body of Christ in the same way now.

Are some people too afraid to move out in the Spirit or are we right to guard against the Kundalini spirit of the New Age.

I watched an honest, frank conversation between Josh Peck and Steven Bancarz earlier and so much wisdom was shown that I thought it might be interesting to others who may have grappled with the question.

 

[Dalit]

I have sat on this question for a long time and have heard voices from both sides of the debate on it.

Did the gifts of the Holy Spirit cease after the apostolic era or does God still move amongst the Body of Christ in the same way now.

Are some people too afraid to move out in the Spirit or are we right to guard against the Kundalini spirit of the New Age.

I watched an honest, frank conversation between Josh Peck and Steven Bancarz earlier and so much wisdom was shown that I thought it might be interesting to others who may have grappled with the question.

Did the gifts of the Holy Spirit cease? No. Yet there is so much confusion about this and people trying to manufacture them. That doesn't mean they are wrong, yet test the spirits and prophecies. I'm a bit jaded in this because I've seen dear friends rush from person to person, ministry to ministry to try to get a word from someone while not really reading God's Word. I was beginning to be like that until God lovingly disciplined me and basically said "What do you think you're doing? This is vanity." I knew better or should've known better but got caught up in the hype. Sometimes the hype could be really fun.

For fear and Kundalini spirit, yes to both. Some are afraid. I was and still can be. And it is right to guard against Kundalini. I saw people shake and jerk and make fools of themselves thinking it was God but it was probably Kundalini. One woman who shook and jerked a lot was embarrassed by it and uncomfortable with it. I think she knows or at least has a suspicion that it may not be of God. I don't think God would humiliate a person that way. She also is very sharp-tempered and lacks true compassion so if it was a gift, it's not producing the fruit and character of the Holy Spirit in her life. Fruit and character matter more, imo. I've seen her hurt a dear friend time and time again and I finally told that friend: "She's not your friend. Quit letting her hurt you and cut her off or at the very least stop entrusting yourself to her." Actually, I tell that friend that a lot. I hate seeing people willingly subject themselves to hurt or abuse.

 

[TokiEl]

I have sat on this question for a long time and have heard voices from both sides of the debate on it.

Did the gifts of the Holy Spirit cease after the apostolic era or does God still move amongst the Body of Christ in the same way now.

Are some people too afraid to move out in the Spirit or are we right to guard against the Kundalini spirit of the New Age.

The Body of Christ is not a big body.

How many have the testimony of Jesus Christ and obey the commandments of God ?

Without the Holy spirit one will be deceived by the spirits.

 

[Dalit]

There's a diagram or picture and plenty of resource materials from PRMI (Presbyterian Reformed Ministries International) on this. The picture/diagram shows the gifts of the Spirit tree. It's pretty and decorated almost like a Christmas tree. It attracts the eye because it's pretty. The fruit of the Spirit tree has good healthy fruit and is also pleasing to the eye. The tree with both is the most balanced yet possibly the rarest to find and that shouldn't be. I think the problem is that there are a lot of immature believers who go after the gifts without producing the fruit and it ruins their testimony. Yet there are some who have a lot of great fruit but are afraid of the "bling" (for lack of a better word) of the gifts' tree. What's needed is both.

 

[TokiEl]

There's a diagram or picture and plenty of resource materials from PRMI (Presbyterian Reformed Ministries International) on this.

So i checked out their website and got a good L0L.


"Learn how to cooperate with the Holy spirit.

We equip believers to advance the Kingdom of God
through Holy spirit empowered ministry."


They are actually saying that they got the knowhow of how to cooperate with the Holy spirit.

That is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Vytas]

They are actually saying that they got the knowhow of how to cooperate with the Holy spirit.
That is absolutely ridiculous.

Holy spirit is a person with a personality and all what comes with it do you disagree ?

 

[Vytas]

Did the gifts of the Holy Spirit cease? No. Yet there is so much confusion about this and people trying to manufacture them.

I don't get it... that means they literally lack basic knowledge. Thats not how it works.

 

[TokiEl]

Holy spirit is a person with a personality and all what comes with it do you disagree ?

The Holy spirit is the Spirit of God.

It is with the Holy spirit that God accomplishes all things.

 

[Faker He-Man]

With actual awareness, you don’t need to play these guessing games, you will know immediately if Jesus is “with” you, and know whom he is also with because of the mental connections already in place. He IS with some of you, yet none are also “with” him, meaning that although you likely have a vague sense, you do not have true conscious awareness he is with you, it’s mostly a guess.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

What struck me over this issue is how the Flesh and the Spirit are in conflict with each other, both within us and as a Christian body.

I grew up seeing people healed and with my family receiving amazing answers to prayer before I had stopped believing in Santa! It was all part of normal life.

When I came across Christians who didn't seem to think that God was still "on the move" I found them rather eccentric! Later, I came across ministries who seemed to have a different emphasis, "signs and wonders" seemed to be the name of the show, and the holiness and the presence of true joy and peace in the meetings seemed to give way to a desire to see something "powerful" happen.

I think this battle happens whenever God has something good in store for his Children. It's rather like the Hegelian dialectic as applied to Christianity.

Problem: NAR pastor goes weird!
Reaction: Horror!
Solution: Go somewhere else and stay away from the Charismatic stuff.

I must admit that despite seeing all that I have, offense taken over some peoples excesses and folly have made me far more like the person who backs away from Charismatic manifestations.

I'm just asking myself, like Josh Peck in the OP, why should I be like that?

 

[Vytas]

With actual awareness, you don’t need to play these guessing games, you will know immediately if Jesus is “with” you, and know whom he is also with because of the mental connections already in place. He IS with some of you, yet none are also “with” him, meaning that although you likely have a vague sense, you do not have true conscious awareness he is with you, it’s mostly a guess.

Not entirely so, it depends on our daily actions, how long you stay in sin before you repent, how often you sin, how firm is your faith. Awareness comes and goes as we struggle between carnal and spiritual. When love becomes strong enough so you wan't nothing to with sin, you defeat it. At those high points it has nothing to do with guessing , it becomes very real. As you fail or your faith weakens presence becomes memory.Also it depends on personality we all schooled in different ways. We are getting individual treatment.
Holy Spirit is different case, lets just say its...more simple.

 

[Faker He-Man]

What struck me over this issue is how the Flesh and the Spirit are in conflict with each other, both within us and as a Christian body.

I grew up seeing people healed and with my family receiving amazing answers to prayer before I had stopped believing in Santa! It was all part of normal life.

When I came across Christians who didn't seem to think that God was still "on the move" I found them rather eccentric! Later, I came across ministries who seemed to have a different emphasis, "signs and wonders" seemed to be the name of the show, and the holiness and the presence of true joy and peace in the meetings seemed to give way to a desire to see something "powerful" happen.

I think this battle happens whenever God has something good in store for his Children. It's rather like the Hegelian dialectic as applied to Christianity.

Problem: NAR pastor goes weird!
Reaction: Horror!
Solution: Go somewhere else and stay away from the Charismatic stuff.

I must admit that despite seeing all that I have, offense taken over some peoples excesses and folly have made me far more like the person who backs away from Charismatic manifestations.

I'm just asking myself, like Josh Peck in the OP, why should I be like that?

Here’s a giant clue to what the strangest of the charismatic-type cults are really experiencing: https://www.thoughtco.com/how-to-create-a-ghost-2594058

This is what happens when you take a belief and just run with it, also known as “chaos magic”

 

[Vytas]

What struck me over this issue is how the Flesh and the Spirit are in conflict with each other, both within us and as a Christian body.

I grew up seeing people healed and with my family receiving amazing answers to prayer before I had stopped believing in Santa! It was all part of normal life.

When I came across Christians who didn't seem to think that God was still "on the move" I found them rather eccentric! Later, I came across ministries who seemed to have a different emphasis, "signs and wonders" seemed to be the name of the show, and the holiness and the presence of true joy and peace in the meetings seemed to give way to a desire to see something "powerful" happen.

I think this battle happens whenever God has something good in store for his Children . It's rather like the Hegelian dialectic as applied to Christianity.

Problem: NAR pastor goes weird!
Reaction: Horror!
Solution: Go somewhere else and stay away from the Charismatic stuff.

I must admit that despite seeing all that I have, offense taken over some peoples excesses and folly have made me far more like the person who backs away from Charismatic manifestations.

I'm just asking myself, like Josh Peck in the OP, why should I be like that?

Lucky you.
i wonder those people who are so eager to witness supernatural have any idea about responsibility, danger, and other burdens which comes with it...Spiritually we still walk on all four...

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

This is very timely for me. I have watched half of the video and will watch the other half later when I have time and maybe again and write down some of the quotable things I keep hearing. This is enough of a conundrum for me that this topic is one of my daily prayers for myself to discern the truth of it all.

I had the “baptism of the Holy Spirit” experience years ago. The gift I could see that God gave me was very strong discernment and a heart to intercede for others. The problem is that I saw so much bad fruit in so many that walked in charismatic circles.

Then I began going to a solid church that really taught the Word of God and I could look and see the fruit of the Spirit in these people’s lives. I’m still amazed sometimes at how well the people in my church live out the Gospel (not perfectly or course). I do believe that there is a place for it in my life but am cautious. When he said that there is a difference between paranoia and discernment, that hit me. I think I may be paranoid. But I have just seen so much nonsense in the name of God. And I have had so much fruit from just studying the Bible deeply.
Sorry for the length of this.

Don't be sorry - this is more or less where I'm at too.

 

[Todd]

What struck me over this issue is how the Flesh and the Spirit are in conflict with each other, both within us and as a Christian body.

I grew up seeing people healed and with my family receiving amazing answers to prayer before I had stopped believing in Santa! It was all part of normal life.

When I came across Christians who didn't seem to think that God was still "on the move" I found them rather eccentric! Later, I came across ministries who seemed to have a different emphasis, "signs and wonders" seemed to be the name of the show, and the holiness and the presence of true joy and peace in the meetings seemed to give way to a desire to see something "powerful" happen.

I think this battle happens whenever God has something good in store for his Children. It's rather like the Hegelian dialectic as applied to Christianity.

Problem: NAR pastor goes weird!
Reaction: Horror!
Solution: Go somewhere else and stay away from the Charismatic stuff.

I must admit that despite seeing all that I have, offense taken over some peoples excesses and folly have made me far more like the person who backs away from Charismatic manifestations.

I'm just asking myself, like Josh Peck in the OP, why should I be like that?

I feel you. When I was fairly young in God I was part of Charismatic church were the leaders were genuine and had integrity. They were open to the "working of the Holy Spirit" but they never tried to manufacture or hype up anything. As the years went by and I was exposed to more circles in the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement, I learned what I intitally experienced is the expectatin and not the norm. I still desire to fellowship with those who believe God still moves and believe the gifts are for today, but finding that with integrity and a focus on the fruit of the Spirit is difficult.

 

[phipps]

How God's Spirit Affects Us

The concept that a person who is "slain in the spirit" should fall to the ground and wallow and mutter is an insult to the Holy Ghost. The reason God gives us His Spirit is to restore in us His image-not to rob us of all dignity and self control!

On mount Carmel, the pagan prophets of Baal jumped on the altar and shouted and moaned. They prophesied and cut themselves. By contrast, Elijah quietly knelt and prayed a simple prayer (1 Kings 18:17-46).

"For God is not the author of confusion" (1 Corinthians 14:33). If God is not responsible, then who is?

The idea that we lose control when we receive the Spirit is not consistent with Scripture. "The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets" (1 Corinthians 14:32).

Here's another case in point. After Jesus saved a berserk, demon-possessed man by the sea, the healed man was seen "sitting at the feet of Jesus, clothed, and in his right mind" (Luke 8:35). The invitation of God is "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord" (Isaiah 1:18). He wants us to use our heads.

Some of you reading this study are no doubt thinking: "How dare you say these things? I have spoken in tongues for years and know it is from God!" As Christians, we should never base our conclusions on how we feel. After all, the devil can certainly make us feel good. Rather, we must base our beliefs upon the sure Word of God.

A friend of mine was an active charismatic who often spoke in tongues. When he studied these things, he began to question if this "gift" was from the right spirit. So he sincerely prayed and said, "Lord, if this is not Your will and if I am not experiencing the true gift of tongues, then please take it away!" He told me that from that day on, the experience of glossolalia never returned. A true Christian should be willing to surrender every cherished view and practice on the altar of God's will and forsake any practice that may be questionable-no matter how popular, accepted, or beloved among other Christians. There are some things that are highly esteemed among men but are an abomination in the sight of God (Luke 16:15).

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/84/t/understanding-tongues

 

[Vytas]

Ministry i follow online, so far they never disappointed me, it has been 4 years i think. Online is not RL but it's better than nothing. Maybe it will be useful to someone.

https://www.hardcorechristianity.com

 

[Todd]

I've seen a few people truly slain in the Spirit in my day and hundreds more that were pushed or just fell over because that was what was expected.

When I see people fall back perfectly in line (like a trust fall) when there is an usher standing behind them, just when the preacher extends his hand or pushes on their forehead, I know it's fake, or at best just a conditioned response. On the other hand when I saw someone who was skeptical (almost hostile) of Christianity, who I had spent weeks discussing scripture and debating different philosophy and religious views, totally slump straight to the ground under the anointing of the Holy Spirt without anyone touching him, I had a suspicion it might have been genuine. When after the experience he became sold out to Christ and denounced all the new age philosopy and religion he professed before that I thought maybe it was real, not based on the event itself, but based on the fruit that I witnessed afterwards.

I've also seen with my own two eyes, my wife slump to the ground and witnessed her head bounce off a concrete floor with no physical injury, bump or pain. She was "unconscious" for a few minutes and later told me she received a revelation when it happened. The revelation was about pain and issues in her heart and she experienced true spiritual growth and freedom because of it. The fruit of her experience is what caused me to believe it was real, not what I saw with my own two eyes.

I've never personally experienced being slain in the Spirit myself, though I have had preachers physically push me a couple times. Of course when you don't willfully fall back into the ushers arms, you risk being accused of "resisting the Holy Sprit". I don't generally respond to altar calls (at least physically going up to the altar) anymore because of it. Of course I generally don't attend those type of church gatherings anymore either.

 

[phipps]

"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues.

But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ" (1 Corinthians 12:4-12).


"But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him...And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?" (1 Corinthians 12:18, 28-30).

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I don't think you have to choose between being full of the Word and full of the Spirit. I am starting to think that God wants us to seek both, and for both to grow up together in us.

Btw, a word of empathy for those coming out of the New Age. If you have been drawn into the bad side of the spiritual town by curiosity and the desire for experience, I totally get why focussing on a more "cerebral" form of Christianity might be more attractive.

I knew a guy once who had been a bit of a rake and had lots of pretty girlfriends. He became a Christian and he could see the hurt he had left behind him - then, for some reason, he decided that beautiful girls were sinful and started dating a Christian girl instead who he didn't find attractive. I remember him telling me things were better that way. My point is that desire and attraction are not sinful, just the routes they led him down.

Paul exhorts us to desire spiritual gifts. The reasons we want them are absolutely key. Jesus reassures us in case we are afraid in Luke 11...

9And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?