Cg Jung, Emergence Of Archetypes, And Ai Apocalypse

[cajun]

Hi. By way of intro to this thread I'd like to suggest some youtube channels and topics: Face Like The Sun is a channel that looks at high tech AI stuff from an Apocalyotic POV, sacred geometry is a general topic with a lot of good videos, like the artist Charles Gilchrist for example, and while CG Jung is a darling of the New Agers he actually had some very big insights into the Nazis' relationship to Odin.

Anyway, I'm new here and this is the stuff I like to talk about.

 

[JoChris]

Welcome from an ex-psychology lover/ believer. From memory Jung believed all religions had elements in common, or religious archetypes. He did not dismiss religion and resulting personal faith like Sigmund Freud did, the other major psychoanalyst of that time.

Christian perspective: He rejected his religious upbringing (father was a pastor) and in via all his psychoanalytic theories and methods (like conversing with a spirit guide he claimed was imaginary) formed his own religion. With this writer, instead of seeking to destroy Christianity like Friedriche Nietzsche, Carl Jung tried to explain it away via fancy language.

My opinion: I am not surprised if he knew about gods like Odin whom the Nazis liked because he must have studied world religions to have reached the conclusions he did. Wikipedia says that his family was of German descent.

 

[Aero]

I think some people have a difficult time understanding Jung. I guess you could call him a cult leader, but I don't see anything in his work that tries to explain away Christianity. Jung will teach you about the inner workings of your mind, which he called the psyche. Which has little to do with god, except where it relates to Archetypes and complexes.

"The complex must therefore be a psychic factor which, in terms of energy, possesses a value that sometimes exceeds that of our conscious intentions, otherwise such disruptions of the conscious order would not be possible at all. And in fact, an active complex puts us momentarily under a state of duress, of compulsive thinking and acting, for which under certain conditions the only appropriate term would be the judicial concept of diminished responsibility"

A complex is just a collection of thoughts, memories and subconscious symbols. You may call yourself mother, or brother but you actually aren't. You simply have all the mental associations that go along with that complex. The totality of our lives are much more than these complexes, yet they come to take over entire lives. And countries in some cases (Nazi Germany)

 

[JoChris]

I think some people have a difficult time understanding Jung. I guess you could call him a cult leader, but I don't see anything in his work that tries to explain away Christianity. Jung will teach you about the inner workings of your mind, which he called the psyche. Which has little to do with god, except where it relates to Archetypes and complexes.

"The complex must therefore be a psychic factor which, in terms of energy, possesses a value that sometimes exceeds that of our conscious intentions, otherwise such disruptions of the conscious order would not be possible at all. And in fact, an active complex puts us momentarily under a state of duress, of compulsive thinking and acting, for which under certain conditions the only appropriate term would be the judicial concept of diminished responsibility"

A complex is just a collection of thoughts, memories and subconscious symbols. You may call yourself mother, or brother but you actually aren't. You simply have all the mental associations that go along with that complex. The totality of our lives are much more than these complexes, yet they come to take over entire lives. And countries in some cases (Nazi Germany)

I thought of this passage. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+16:16-18&version=KJV

Note the slave girl was not contradicting them. "She" i.e. the evil spirit was distracting observers from hearing what the apostles said about Jesus.
Carl Jung- *translation *" yes Christianity is a religion but all other religions follow the same pattern... read my analyses of all religious texts...."

Readers who take Jung at his word then believe Christianity follows the same patterns as other religions' myths, forgetting there is much historical evidence that supports Christianity's teachings. Jung's believers discount the "primitive religion" and embrace his new, (allegedly) more enlightened works. Christianity is rejected, Jung's views on religions are embraced.

 

[cajun]

Jung didn't lead any cult or anything. He was an early researcher in the field of psychiatry whose attempts to understand the human psyche actually proved the spiritual reality that the Bible describes, in contrast to the atheist Freud whose work enslaves Freudians to a very limited model of psychology.

 

[Aero]

I thought of this passage. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+16:16-18&version=KJV

Note the slave girl was not contradicting them. "She" i.e. the evil spirit was distracting observers from hearing what the apostles said about Jesus.
Carl Jung- *translation *" yes Christianity is a religion but all other religions follow the same pattern... read my analyses of all religious texts...."

Readers who take Jung at his word then believe Christianity follows the same patterns as other religions' myths, forgetting there is much historical evidence that supports Christianity's teachings. Jung's believers discount the "primitive religion" and embrace his new, (allegedly) more enlightened works. Christianity is rejected, Jung's views on religions are embraced.

Some people might feel that way, but you seem to be trying to speak for a lot of people that aren't you. I'm positive you can be a Jungian and be Christian. Plenty of people just use Jungs work as a learning tool. It's hardly a religious movement. Maybe you just think that way because of your own religious bias. I think you have a complex.

 

[JoChris]

Some people might feel that way, but you seem to be trying to speak for a lot of people that aren't you. I'm positive you can be a Jungian and be Christian. Plenty of people just use Jungs work as a learning tool. It's hardly a religious movement. Maybe you just think that way because of your own religious bias. I think you have a complex.

Distraction tactic. That last sentence is said much more eloquently by C.S.Lewis's character " Mastor Parrot". (Whole "The Pilgrim's Regress" book available in various formats).
http://fadedpage.com/books/20150649/html.php#c22
Translation: don't address the topic, use names/ labels instead.

 

[Aero]

Distraction tactic. That last sentence is said much more eloquently by C.S.Lewis's character " Mastor Parrot". (Whole "The Pilgrim's Regress" book available in various formats).
http://fadedpage.com/books/20150649/html.php#c22
Translation: don't address the topic, use names/ labels instead.

A complex is neither a name or a label. It encompasses many things within the psyche of humans. I think you are trying to distract, from Jungs real work. Like sorry they aren't good enough Christians for you, but that has nothing to do with analytical psychology.

 

[JoChris]

A complex is neither a name or a label. It encompasses many things within the psyche of humans. I think you are trying to distract, from Jungs real work. Like sorry they aren't good enough Christians for you, but that has nothing to do with analytical psychology.

I don't know how familiar you are with Christian theology, but I don't know how any serious Christian could agree with any of his statements here.
Evidence of universalism, gnosticism, mysticism, man becoming a god and so on.
Some quotes from a pro-Jung blog: https://thesethingsinside.wordpress.com/2011/05/19/jung-on-the-christian-archetype/
One of the more obvious ones. "The individual ego is where the Christ child is born".
Really? Becoming more attuned with your real self as you become older e.g. accepting personal limitations, choosing your path instead of family's traditions is the same as Jesus' historical birth? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+2&version=KJV

That kind of statement is psychobabble. That is delusional. Believers of Jung cannot be true to the biblical Christian faith. A pseudo-Christianity, sure.

 

[Aero]

I don't know how familiar you are with Christian theology, but I don't know how any serious Christian could agree with any of his statements here.
Evidence of universalism, gnosticism, mysticism, man becoming a god and so on.
Some quotes from a pro-Jung blog: https://thesethingsinside.wordpress.com/2011/05/19/jung-on-the-christian-archetype/
One of the more obvious ones. "The individual ego is where the Christ child is born".
Really? Becoming more attuned with your real self as you become older e.g. accepting personal limitations, choosing your path instead of family's traditions is the same as Jesus' historical birth? https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+2&version=KJV

That kind of statement is psychobabble. That is delusional. Believers of Jung cannot be true to the biblical Christian faith. A pseudo-Christianity, sure.

Well the bible doesn't help some people. And maybe they aren't Christian. So what? Last time I checked the Jungian psychologists of the world *still* aren't the ones out there trying to convert anyone. In fact you will probably never see that in your life. No it's the Christians who can't tolerate other viewpoints apparently, you can't even handle a Jung thread without trying to push the bible?

 

[cajun]

I guess I made a mistake. I thought this was a general-interest forum that would provide opportunity for intelligent conversations about human reality, including-but-not-limited to Christian understanding.

But apparently only extremely narrowminded religious ignorance is going to be allowed by bigoted evangelical trolls.
G'day.

 

[JoChris]

Well the bible doesn't help some people. And maybe they aren't Christian. So what? Last time I checked the Jungian psychologists of the world *still* aren't the ones out there trying to convert anyone. In fact you will probably never see that in your life. No it's the Christians who can't tolerate other viewpoints apparently, you can't even handle a Jung thread without trying to push the bible?

You have jumped to conclusions. Unlike most people I actually have met and know people who are heavily influenced by Jungian concepts. Several relatives of mine directly in personal counselling and Jungian + many other non-Christian theorists' works are the foundations of their methods.

And of course I will use the bible to show the contrast between e.g. Jung and Christian teachings. You turn on the light to remove darkness.

 

[JoChris]

I guess I made a mistake. I thought this was a general-interest forum that would provide opportunity for intelligent conversations about human reality, including-but-not-limited to Christian understanding.

But apparently only extremely narrowminded religious ignorance is going to be allowed by bigoted evangelical trolls.
G'day.

Someone who shows a different position to your own is automatically a troll? Now that is narrow-minded.

I liked his personality tests so much when I later did further study I used every opportunity to read psychoanalytic journals as well as my own course's studies. There are very many enticing concepts that make a lot of sense. I would have been interested in seeing a pro-Jungian responder as well but at the time of your posting only I seemed to have any knowledge of what Jung taught and represented.

 

[cajun]

Wow. ONLY YOU?!?

Wow.

I came here for intelligent discussion.

Again, obviously a mistake. It is obvious that no one who ACTUALLY DOES have any understanding of these things, INCLUDING Christians like me, is going to be allowed to carry on a discussion.

And JoeChris, if you think I was talking about the asinine personality-test nonsense that must have Jung spinning in his grave (but that stands in for the entire body of his work for narcissistic idiots like you) then you are proving you don't even know what my post was about.

What a waste of time to even check into this board.

Trolls rule here.

 

[cajun]

Joe Chris you are a troll because you assume that everyone is here to argue with you.

You are the quintessential troll.

 

[Aero]

This happens every time someone brings up Jung on this board. Some Bible thumper comes out of left field and starts ranting about Christianity. Like we get it, Jung wasn't a stout Christian. But that doesn't have anything to do with like 95% of his work. His days were spent writing in journals, treating patients, and traveling the world. He wasn't out there telling people not to follow Christ.

I would have been interested in seeing a pro-Jungian responder as well but at the time of your posting only I seemed to have any knowledge of what Jung taught and represented.

You are full of it. I said you have a complex and you had nothing to say about. You haven't shown any interest in discussing actual Jungian topics.

 

[cajun]

Aero, maybe we can charitably ignore him and get on wiiith more edifying fellowship?

I have just been spending time in Youtube with Anthony Patch's CERN lectures.

My real interest in Jung is not the personality nonsense, but the emergence of archetypal energy. What Jung actually did, in my opinion, was describe the actual biological dynamic of how demonic energy takes possession of individuals and sometimes collectively of entire nations. Because he was true to himself as a scientist, he did not try to dismiss the presence of demonic energy (as other psychiatrists did) but he accepted it and described it.

Are you familiar with Anthony Patch? He is describing the emergence of the same energy in the physical realm in his reporting on CERN and the quantum computers.

I have no problem as a Christian contemplating the fulfillment of so much prophecy in our time. In fact I rejoice in it and am in awe of it.

 

[Aero]

I read a little bit about him. I think he's right that humanity really needs to change our perception of reality. Einstein was a genius but he had nothing for Quantum Entanglement. The fact that a bit within a quantum computer can be in two states at the same time should be a wake up call. But people refuse to move past the standard model of the universe.

Jung was ahead of his time because he knew everything was connected. The "Collective Unconscious" is where such demons exist. And it is the goal of the CERN to make the unseen seen. But I doubt they will ever be able to strike God. I think they have already found their portals and demons that exist within men and women. Ghosts, machines, and weapons. We should be worried about them being used against us. God will be fine.

 

[cajun]

Patch has a very strong grasp of Apocalyptic prophecy. He also is one of those rare individuals who can understand mathmatical scientific concepts at a very high level and explain it to the rest of us at a high-school level.
His recent talk "Revising Reality" (I think that's the one) shows fulfillment of prophecy insofar as the atheist scientists themselves are giving up their false sense of objectivity and admitting that the only explanation for their work is, in fact, demonic and other-worldly.

The prophecy that is being fulfilled, of course, is the one about universal acknowledgement of the Biblical Truth. Scientists will soon be divided into those who say "gee, I guess you guys were right about Jesus" and those who say "we're consciously serving Satan". All will recognize Jesus, there won't be any atheists or agnostics.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I have read the thread to this point with interest (as a Myers-Briggs ENTP type) and I can get a sense of where each of you are looking at this from, I think.

Perhaps I can say without too much controversy that Freud may have been further from the truth than Jung, in a similar way to someone who is red-green colour blind has a less realistic view of a landscape than a normal sighted person.

On the other hand, simply seeing more colours will not automatically make you good at geography. For that you need maps...