No regard...for the desire of women

[Vytas]

No catholics are not Christians...they have a different gospel.

Though they consider themselves christians, and are officially christian denomination and there is nothing we can do about it...

 

[Lisa]

Though they consider themselves christians, and are officially christian denomination and there is nothing we can do about it...

They can consider themselves Christians and other people can agree, but biblically speaking, they really aren’t. And, I’m not going to let that slide and say that they are when they really aren’t. They are a different gospel and they should be outed as such.

 

[yiksmes]

Maybe we should really try to form our opinions in a way not to offend others, at least try.
This way, if the opinions in us concluded from hate within our hearts, then at least it won't be so blatantly noticeable.

We should address our hate towards injustice, but we take big responsibility calling the "injustice justice" or vice versa.

So it is our responsibility to study the subject very thoroughly, and only then point fingers.

Otherwise YOU are misleading.

The laws of karma, or boomerang will haunt you down and punish you.

You can be a savior,(if you have the knowledge)
or someone going to hell and trying to take everybody with you,(when you don't understand what you preach)
or you can be just a passerby (when you hold your tongue and just listen)

I know most here are very literate and smart and know all this better than i, but a little reminder shouldn't hurt anyone i hope.

 

[Lisa]

Maybe we should really try to form our opinions in a way not to offend others

How does that even work?

 

[rainerann]

Well @DesertRose post above states otherwise...But even if it were true...If law would force people to do something bad then i would agree with you... But now it's few thousand year old custom, if you grew up in that environment and never saw woman dressing differently, it would be natural for you to dress that way too...Different cultures different customs, that is all..

Testimonies from women in Iran and Saudi Arabia say otherwise and they are just as valid. Why should I say they are lying just because of what DR says?

What makes her perspective more valid? Because she is whitewashing something that could actually be creating a damaging situation so that people don’t need to feel concerned about it? Because it is easier to ignore if someone says it isn’t a problem?

I just don’t find what DR says to be very credible regarding Islam most of the time. I definitely don’t find it credible enough to ignore the potential of suffering when I know that laws exist requiring women to be covered that have legal consequences for not complying.

Most of what DR says is just sort of cute that someone is playing house with a religion like Islam from the comforts of western Canada that is known for its hippie culture and pot. I just don’t see the witness of a Muslim from a place near British Columbia where the marijuana is so good, it has a regional identity of BC bud really understands what Islam is like in the Middle East or will ever give an honest answer for why Islam in the Middle East causes cultures to retain oppressive practices towards women because she defends Islam the way westerners defend abortion, pro life, Democrat, republican and every other cause we believe we have the right to defend.

Having the right to defend something and choosing to do this does not always mean someone is more knowledgeable about the subject than someone who opposes the issue. This is something I have learned growing up in a western country myself.

So I find her perspective extremely biased most of the time and take it with a grain of salt. If you want to consider it more valid than others who say they are suffering because of laws telling them what to wear, by all means. Have at it.

 

[DesertRose]

How does that even work?

lisa I am offended because you thought chai and tea were synonymous. (just kidding)
I will have you know that the one requires more work than the other.
Chai actually has added components such as spices and require boiling and re-boiling with milk etc.
It is quite sophisticated.
Tea can be a symbolic beverage for freedom.
The kind you Americans wanted from England back in the day and the kind we want from the US now.......

A Lady’s Adieu to Her Tea-Table

From the Pennsylvania Gazette, February 2, 1774

FAREWELL the tea-board, with its gaudy equipage
Of cups and saucers, cream-bucket, sugar-tongs,
The pretty tea-chest also, lately stored
With Hyson, Congo, and best double-fine.
Full many a joyous moment have I sat by ye, 5
Hearing the girls tattle, the old maids talk scandal,
And the spruce coxcomb laugh at—maybe—nothing.
No more shall I dish out the once-loved liquor,
Though now detestable,
Because I’m taught (and I believe it true) 10
Its use will fasten slavish chains upon my country,
And Liberty’s the goddess I would choose
To reign triumphant in America.

(DR; I would have personally said liberty is the condition not goddess)

 

[Lisa]

lisa I am offended because you thought chai and tea were synonymous. (just kidding)
I will have you know that the one requires more work than the other.
Chai actually has added components such as spices and require boiling and re-boiling with milk etc.
It is quite sophisticated.
Tea is a symbolic beverage for freedom.
The kind you Americans wanted from England back in the day and the kind we want from the US now.......

A Lady’s Adieu to Her Tea-Table

From the Pennsylvania Gazette, February 2, 1774

FAREWELL the tea-board, with its gaudy equipage
Of cups and saucers, cream-bucket, sugar-tongs,
The pretty tea-chest also, lately stored
With Hyson, Congo, and best double-fine.
Full many a joyous moment have I sat by ye, 5
Hearing the girls tattle, the old maids talk scandal,
And the spruce coxcomb laugh at—maybe—nothing.
No more shall I dish out the once-loved liquor,
Though now detestable,
Because I’m taught (and I believe it true) 10
Its use will fasten slavish chains upon my country,
And Liberty’s the goddess I would choose
To reign triumphant in America.

Actually, I buy the chai tea already made in bags, however, I think I may have some loose too. I learned at a class that if you add sweetened condensed milk to it, it tastes really good, however, not too much of that stuff, it can get really sweet.

I thought tea was a beverage like coffee, where you sit and ponder life whilst drinking your tea? I also like to drink tea and read a good book...C.S. Lewis said No tea cup is big enough nor book long enough for me to be satisfied.'

 

[floss]

Don't believe you for a second. No one puts their kids in a face veil.

either you're dishonest or ignorant

 

[DesertRose]

Actually, I buy the chai tea already made in bags, however, I think I may have some loose too. I learned at a class that if you add sweetened condensed milk to it, it tastes really good, however, not too much of that stuff, it can get really sweet.

Okay fine.......but my stuff's better!

I also like to drink tea and read a good book...C.S. Lewis said No tea cup is big enough nor book long enough for me to be satisfied.'

I guess we differ again.
I have an abort mechanism for too much tea and too much book, in fact too much anything.

 

[Serveto]

... covering that is required by law with legal consequences is oppression.

How far are you willing to take this logic? Already, here in the States, many women are arguing that, given that it is not illegal for men to go shirtless, neither should it be illegal for women to expose their bare breasts in public. Is "covering that is required by law" and "with legal consequences" oppression in this case?

 

[Lisa]

Okay fine.......but my stuff's better!

I guess we differ again.
I have an abort mechanism for too much tea and too much book, in fact too much anything.

Possibly. Is it done in a traditional way, like how you make coffee?

I always took it as its a nice way to relax and it doesn’t last long enough.

 

[Vytas]

If you want to consider it more valid than others who say they are suffering because of laws telling them what to wear, by all means. Have at it.

I never consider by who, helps with bias, i consider what is said and in what manner it was done...You want to take it personally ? By all means. Have at it...
And btw I only pinpointed that yours and DR opinions contradicts each other, i never said who is right or wrong..

 

[yiksmes]

How does that even work?

Be the way Jesus wants you to be, be considerable, kind to others, try to deliver a message or point of view without blame and offense..

This should work i hope:
Instead of saying that "wearing a head coverings is an oppression"
We can try asking the people politely instead, - "wearing a head coverings, is it an oppression?" To the people who experience this every day (luckily we have people like that on this forum) (Just an example)

And i am sure many people of that faith will be happy to say how they feel..

Instead of dictating, we can just ask the opinion of the people of experience, come to the conclusion, but don't force it on others if they don't agree with you.

 

[Forever Light]

Even as far as the Far East, the idea of dressing in a respectful manner has not been uncommon.
Both Ip Man and his wife liked the idea of having a respectable appearance.

Great movie.. Ip Man

 

[rainerann]

How far are you willing to take this logic? Already, here in the States, many women are arguing that, given that it is not illegal for men to go shirtless, neither should it be illegal for women to expose their bare breasts in public. Is "covering that is required by law" and "with legal consequences" oppression in this case?

It is not illegal for men to go shirtless, but requiring a shirt can be imposed by business. This is the same policy that should apply to women. People should have respect for the rules of private owners. Therefore, a federal law is not required. I am not going to go around trying to find a place where I can be topless, but I don't really have control over whether or not someone else does this. The only thing that I need is the right to say that if you are in my home or my business, you will not expose yourself or be naked.

I have the right to say that a man has to wear a shirt in my home or if it were my business without it being illegal for a man to go around without a shirt.

I think when you give people individual rights that allow them to create their own boundaries, there is no need to establish a legal code for every preference people have.

Beaches are probably the most noticeable grey area. However, beaches are still defined as public and private property that allows for different rules to apply. So there are some areas like a public beach where you would collectively have many people without an individual owner of the property that we could define some boundaries in the same way that we have some boundaries regarding freedom of speech.

For example, "

• The government can't prohibit marches on public sidewalks or streets, or rallies in most public parks or plazas. But it can often require a permit to regulate competing uses of the area and to ensure you respect reasonable time, place and manner restrictions." https://www.aclunc.org/our-work/know-your-rights/free-speech-protests-demonstrations

There is evidence that requiring a permit when appropriate to not obstruct the area you are protesting in does not hinder the principle of freedom of speech. Therefore, the same principle can be applied to the subject of being naked on a public beach where do not have clear boundaries for individuals sharing a space for recreation that would not require making it illegal to be topless even if you are a woman.

 

[Lisa]

Be the way Jesus wants you to be, be considerable, kind to others, try to deliver a message or point of view without blame and offense..

This should work i hope:
Instead of saying that "wearing a head coverings is an oppression"
We can try asking the people politely instead, - "wearing a head coverings, is it an oppression?" To the people who experience this every day (luckily we have people like that on this forum) (Just an example)

And i am sure many people of that faith will be happy to say how they feel..

Instead of dictating, we can just ask the opinion of the people of experience, come to the conclusion, but don't force it on others if they don't agree with you.

And if I don’t agree...I just nod and smile?
I don’t think there is anyway to say what you truly feel, no matter if you try to say it a nice way, that you won’t offend anyone. The only way not to offend is not to speak.

I don’t force anyone to agree with me and I still talk to people even if I disagree with them, I am still kind and tolerant of what they think while disagreeing. However, I can’t say the same for some that reply to me, and I don’t retaliate in kind.

 

[Lurker]

I actually do.

Good,

We’ve talked about tax laws on the board already.

I meant more than tax laws.

What’s your point?

Just hoping for consistency.

 

[Forever Light]

 

[yiksmes]

And if I don’t agree...I just nod and smile?

You can always politely agree to disagree =)

I don’t think there is anyway to say what you truly feel, no matter if you try to say it a nice way, that you won’t offend anyone. The only way not to offend is not to speak.

Yes, your right, It's hard to find words not to offend everyone but my emphasis was on "Try"

 

[DesertRose]

I just do not get it at times.
Does the world have to be created in the image of one culture?
Are we free to only talk, eat and dress like the master?
We have ancient cultures and ancient traditions and we actually have cultural dress codes that differ.
This should be celebrated.
All flowers should not be red roses.....(desert roses are cool too, just sayin'....blink blink not wink wink).