I doubt it's legitimate for the simple reason that it supports the thesis that the Father of Christ is the LORD of the OT.
So let me get this right, the standard of your authenticity is, it supports my personal interpretation? Regardless if its been quoted, double quoted, triple quoted in the NT, if it is has never once been doubted by any Scholar, that its been quoted and spoken of by Christians in the 1st and early 2nd Century ect ect ect. The ONLY method you hold of legitimizing Scripture is it meshes with your own Personal made up Religion?
I hope everyone who reads this thread understands exactly what you are saying when you make this statement, its rather revealing as to whether or not one should accept YOUR personal opinion and made up Religion and viewpoint on ANYTHING mentioned in either the NT or the OT...
It is however, unsettling to see bits in scripture that actually say the opposite of what we're told.
Only those who remain willfully ignorant can even begin to see such nonsense in the Scripture, especially when they literally ignore the myriad of out right specific texts that all state explicitly that the God of the Old Testament is the God of the New Testament. It takes leaps and bounds of cognitive dissonance to try and see conflicting views as tho there are different Gods in any of the Scriptures and your proof text support that exact fact...
Numbers 11:4-5: And the mixt multitude that was among them fell a hunger: and the children of Israel also wept again, and said, Who shall give us flesh to eat? We remember the fish, which we did eat in Egypt freely;
So do you understand the Context of this passage man? The Context is that Israel had been taken out of Slavery and regardless of EVERYTHING God was doing and had done to Free them, and destroy their Enemies, and Feed them and give them Water, and promise to bring them into a land of Milk and Honey, all they did was complain. So they literally are complaining about how great their Captivity was. What do you believe is the central lesson that is to be seen and taught here? Do you believe it is the ridiculous notion that you wish to assert, that God is a tyrant, or is it that when we are Freed from our bondage, aka Sin and the World, we ought not to wish and desire for the things that brought us into bondage aka Sin and the World?
You also quickly gloss over this as you try and paint this False Picture of your God:
Numbers 11:18 And say thou unto the people, Sanctify yourselves against to morrow, and ye shall eat flesh: for ye have wept in the ears of the Lord, saying, Who shall give us flesh to eat? for it was well with us in Egypt: therefore the Lord will give you flesh, and ye shall eat.
What does God do? Does He immediately send serpents to harm them, or does He go above and beyond and give these stubborn ungrateful people exactly what they ask for, even tho He was literally sustaining them day in and day out with Manna from Heaven. You know what they were receiving there dont you? Jesus. These people were not happy with Jesus brother, who do you think is the Bread from Heaven?
John 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
I mean you do realize that Jesus literally just said it wasnt Moses who gave them bread but it was Jesus Father who gave them Manna, and that Manna is HIM!!! This is why I cant take anything you say serious, almost every time you make these blasphemous references, within the text you quote, and the surrounding quotes, and topics, we see right quick that Jesus Himself asserts that the God of the Old Testament, YHWH is His Father. It takes a special kind of willful ignorance and cognitive dissonance to continue denying these things and continue to misquote text to support these false doctrines...
So first we see that God, YHWH, actually gave the Israelites Flesh even though they were not only ungrateful for everything He had and was doing for them, they yet again have the audacity to say I want to be under bondage again, and that is AFTER Jesus Christ Himself came down to them.. Then we see that when we have Jesus reference this exact Scripture, Jesus Himself literally says, it wasnt Moses who gave them Manna, it was MY FATHER who gave them Manna, so YHWH is Jesus Father, that is what Jesus declares. But will you accept this blatant admission by Christ as to who it is that is His Father, or will you continue to blaspheme the Father and call Him the Devil and mislead and lie to others so they call the Father of Jesus who is YHWH the Devil...
Numbers 21:4-6: And they journeyed from mount Hor by the way of the Red sea, to compass the land of Edom: and the soul of the people was much discouraged because of the way. And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died.
Here we go again quoting out of Context and misleading people, lets take a look at the previous chapter and what happened right before this incident, and then look at what happened after that incident and then lets look at Jesus DIRECTLY quote this incident and see what He actually says about it all...
Num 20:1 Then came the children of Israel, even the whole congregation, into the desert of Zin in the first month: and the people abode in Kadesh; and Miriam died there, and was buried there.
2 And there was no water for the congregation: and they gathered themselves together against Moses and against Aaron.
3 And the people chode with Moses, and spake, saying, Would God that we had died when our brethren died before the Lord!
4 And why have ye brought up the congregation of the Lord into this wilderness, that we and our cattle should die there?
So prior to the incident you quote we see YET AGAIN, Israel complaining about what God is or isnt doing, and if you understand what was actually happening here, Israel was ready to KILL Moses and Aaron!!! Again let us remember that this is after God delievered them from Egypt, destroyed their Enemies, provided Water and Food and kept them safe this entire time. How does Israel react? They get mad and question God and literally try and riot against the Men of God the moment they arent getting their way. Do you think they are ungrateful Art? Do you think that they are tempting God? Do you think they are Faithless?
What happens next, does God smite them? Lets see:
Num 20:7 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.
What does God do for these ungrateful people? He gives them a miracle and produces Water from a Rock, and again who do you think this is Art? Since you cant seem to understand it, this again is JESUS, God brings Jesus to them!!!
1 Cor 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Wait what is Paul declaring here? I mean you did chastise the Muslims a few months back about being Hypocritical in quoting and then rejecting the Word of God, and Paul in particular, so lets not reject what Paul says here now. So what did Paul say Art? Oh thats right, that JESUS was the Rock that followed the Israelities in the desert and it was JESUS that was the Water that came from the Rock, so again in context of the same verse you ignorantly quote we have Paul saying, well it wasnt the Devil doing that, it was JESUS Himself, why? Because YHWH is Jesus, YHWH is the Father, YHWH is the Son, YHWH is the One True God...
So not only did Israel complain and still get the Water, if you bother reading the rest of the passage, their ungratefulness resulted in the death of Aaron and Moses, but yeah lets ignore all of this Context as to why God finally after MANY times showing Grace bring wrath upon them... So after Aaron dies comes your text, so again we had just watched Israel complain about not getting water, and then due to their complaints Aaron dies, and now immediately after that incident, they are brought to the exact same situation, and what do they do? Praise God and pray to Him and thank Him for deliverance and knowing that He will provide again? No they do the same exact thing they have done over and over and over and over and over again, complain and rise up against Moses!!! Are you kidding me??
But hey again there is a Spiritual Lesson to be learned, about how we ourselves ARE Israel in the Flesh, and how we constantly are falling back into temptation and have Jesus deliver us, like He did Israel, and then when we are put back in the same situation we fall and rail against God. We do this over and over, because we are WORSE than Israel is, but Jesus keeps pouring down Grace and Mercy, but guess what, we better learn the lesson from Scripture so we dont have to live the lesson that Israel did. You can only tempt God so many times before He brings Judgment and when we see what Jesus says of this, we come to find that this Judgement is to lead us to Christ!!!
So then comes your quote, and what happens immediately after that?
Num 21:8 And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
9 And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
Oh and lets not forget what Israel said themselves concerning this:
Num 21:7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord, and against thee; pray unto the Lord, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people.
What is that Art? The people admit they Sinned? They Sinned the EXACT same Sin they Sinned the prior Chapter, in which God instead of smiting them just sent Grace and Mercy and gave them water. This time He brings Judgement upon them for Sin, but what does He also do Art? He provides a way to LIVE even tho they have Sinned directly against God, all they had to do was look upon the raise serpent. and what does it say, ANY MAN who looked upon it LIVED. Why do you think anyone died Art? Was it because God is Evil and Vindictive? Are you so blind you dont understand what this Entire passage is about?
My friend what you call out for Evil, is actually a prime example of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Everyone is Israel, we all have Sinned against God, and Gods Judgement is JUST. What do we deserve for our Sin? Even Paul tells you Sin equals Death, you and I both deserve DEATH for our Sins before God. Gods Judgement was against Sin and Sin brings Death, but God provided a way that EVEN THO Israel deserved Death, He gave them a way to NOT DIE and instead LIVE. Israel admitted they Sinned and then looked unto the one that was Raised for Life and ANY MAN that looked unto the one that was raised LIVED. Just as today we must admit we are Sinners before God and we deserve DEATH and Gods Righteous Judgement and then look unto the one He raised that we may have LIFE. What does Jesus say about this Art?
John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
In case you dont grasp it, Jesus is declaring that HE is the one that Israel looked unto for Life in the Wilderness. I love when you quote Scripture brother, because even tho you misquote it and try and make it Evil, all that needs to be done is to put it in Context and we see that which you intend for Evil is actually all about Jesus!!! Each of the incidences you brought up here all literally are spoken of in the New Testament and all of them say it was Jesus that was with Israel, that Jesus Father gave the Manna, that Jesus is the Manna, and that Jesus is the one who Israel looked unto to live!!! Praise the Lord, reminds me of this Scripture:
Gen 50:20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.
Amen, what people think and intend for Evil, God turns it unto good and now the Gospel has been preached, the Gospel to save much people alive!!!
Matthew 7:9: What man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? 10: Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? 11: If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
As for this, well now that everything is in Context only the willfully ignorant and Spiritually deceived could possible link this to the other Scriptures that have been brought up, because again, Jesus said it was His Father that was providing Manna and the Water, and who did it over and over before Judgement of Sin was brought upon Israel...
Now for the next verses, even better lol I love it brother keep misquoting Scriptures so that Gods Glory may be revealed!!!
1 Kings 18:37-40: Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again. Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench. And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God. And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.
2 Kings:1:10: And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.
So lets get it straight you are condemning Elijah here correct? I mean you must be because he is the one that brought fire down from Heaven and destroyed the Prophets of Baal, with whom you are now sympathizing. Well what does Jesus think of Elijah?
Matt 11:7 And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
8 But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.
9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.
10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.
So Jesus calls John the Baptist, Elijah, and speaks rather highly of him, interesting, and well do we ever see Jesus with Elijah? I mean there is NO WAY that Jesus would EVER be caught dead with the Prophet of YHWH who is Satan right!! Never!!!
Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Here is Jesus with Elijah speaking to him, and I find it funny that while He is there with Elijah the Father says Here is my Son with whom I am well pleased!! Clearly Elijah and the Father are linked along with Jesus and Moses, why? Because they all serve the same God.
As for the final ridiculous attempt of misquoting Scripture for Evil...
Luke 9:54-55: And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But Jesus turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
Revelation 13:13: And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.
First off you again arent able to discern what was being rebuke by Jesus, it was that they desired to see them killed, however what does Jesus say in the next verse, which for some reason you didnt quote:
Luke 9:56 For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
It also ought to be noted the prior text, you know this thing called Context, I know you hate it because your false doctrine never is able to stand when put back into Context:
Luke 9:51 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,
52 And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
53 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
So to put this in Context we see Jesus intended to go to a village in Samaria, when they didnt receive Jesus, the disciples thought that Jesus would kill them, why? Because at that time the Jews HATED the Samaritans thus it was in their heart to hurt the Samaritans, it has NOTHING to do with calling down fire, nor Elijah. It would be reticent of you to actually start studying the Bible itself instead of chopping it up to fit into your preconceived ideologies. The desire of these men were worlds apart from what happened with Elijah, which of course you didnt quote the whole incident. If one reads the Context of the incident in 2 Kings 1, we see that Elijah gives the king of Samaria the prophecy that he would die, and thus the king sends men to CAPTURE AND POSSIBLY KILL Elijah thus Elijah is calling down Fire to protect himself and once a man comes before him and basically says I am not going to harm you, God tells Elijah to go with them. Completely different that being upset that a village wont let Jesus come and then kill them all....
And of course you quote Revelations of the Beast but refuse to quote this, why? Because it outright shows how retarded your ideology is:
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
The 2 witness one of which is considered by many to be Elijah himself and what is he doing bringing fire, your linking to Elijah, whom Jesus dwells with, calls John Elijah and is one of the witness, to be a prophet of the beast is absurdity and shows how blind you are to the Truth. I hope one day you get Born Again so you can properly understand the Scriptures you twist and destroy, chopping them up to make them fit the narrative you wish to force them into...
What the Lord of the NT teaches here, is the exact opposite of how the LORD of the OT behaves. This is problematic for the position that defends the thesis that they are one and the same. A thesis' validity is based on its coherence. "But Jude says ..." So what. Maybe Jude was wrong. Or maybe the reference was inserted by Judaizers to stop Christians from believing the OT god is the beast / deceiver.
None of that is problematic, I systematically dismantled all of your ignorant false doctrine, simply by putting everything in Context. The real problematic positions are every single thing I just wrote because all of it shows how blind and willfully ignorant one must be to come to these conclusions and then DENY the very fact that Jesus says His Father gave the Manna, that Jesus says He IS the Manna, that Jesus IS the Rock, that Jesus was with Israel in the Wilderness guiding and doing everything that the Old Testament says YHWH is doing, that Jesus IS the serpent on the staff, that Jesus is with Elijah ect ect ect...
Jude wasnt wrong, no Judaizers did anything to Scriptures, the only one wrong here is you sir...
But if it doesn't line up with the bible, out it goes.
