Differences between the Bible and Islam

[Zakat]

Can I add that John 1 cements the fact that Jesus is God and did create the world. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. ... And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:1-4, 14).

No, you cannot compare The Eternal WITHOUT BEGINNING NOR END to what had a beginning which is the human body.

Like mother, like son.
But, like mother, like daughter too.
And Mary's father, her own flesh too.
All those ascendants of Jesus go way back to Adam and Eve, first humans Created by God.

So a Prophet is a very special human being, true, but remains human nonetheless, no matter his miracles, it is God Who Empowers, whether one is good or evil.

 

[Haich]

Ya, I've seen it myself. I wonder what makes them resort to Robert Spenser and David Wood?

I guess eventually they admit to themselves what they have is indefensible, so they try to attack Islam. As if lowering Islam could somehow elevate their faith.

Toxic is kind of new to me, but I've fought with all the rest. They are not here to listen to what you have to say, only to convert you to their path. Even if it's calling to the Church of Elvis, they believe they have the one and only truth. As they've already admitted, it's largely blind faith.

Which is sad because God is going to ask them why they neglected the logic he gave them.

They’ll take any bait they can get. I’ve seen this in real life at speakers corner, I’m not new to their tactics so I usually can guess the topics and verses they are going to bring up. Wood, Spencer & Apostate tend to have the most inflammatory views and are career islamaphobes. If they just watched the debates I posted they’ll see these men are just liars peddling hate and misconceptions.

Yeah that’s why I responded to Toxic because I haven’t interacted with her before. I used to interact more with JoChris, RedSky, Thunderian etc. There were a few others I’m sure if I search the old threads it’ll come up but I don’t remember their names.

 

[Flarepath]

..if it wasn't for us limeys you'd still be fighting off redskin attacks on your wagon trains !

a yank? mister, do you have a "loicense" for that hate speech? I dare you to cross the water don't make me go 1776

Lucky for you we had to ship back to Europe to kick French ass or you'd have been in a world o' hurt boy..

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

If you as a Christian don’t turn the other cheek, are you committing a sin?
I’m sorry what are you talking about when you say seeing a ‘glimpse of the kingdom’? Are you saying you have a vision before thinking of sinning to deter you from the sin?

No, i am definitely not saying i have visions. I am speaking about a state of mind.

And no, it does not deter me. It is a feeling afterwards , not before.

Nor is it a motive, because if it were the motive then the motive would not be love for my fellow man.

As i've said, it's difficult to explain, even in person.

I didn’t say Christians on the Bible Belt are examples of what the Bible says. I’m pointing to the fact that you have stated turning the other cheek is the ideal, yet so many American Christians have guns and defend themselves. Doesn’t it occur to you that the standard the Bible wants you to live by (in terms of turning the other cheek) is such an unrealistic and unattainable standard that hardly anybody practises it?

Yes, it is an unattainable standard, which is why we are saved by faith, not works. No matter how much we try we can never match the ideal.

Does not mean we shouldn't try though. It is a sad fact that many do give up trying, but that does not make it right.

Also, i think someone else has mentioned it, but calling oneself a Christian does not make it so. Going to a megachurch rock concert once a week does not make someone a Christian.

The Bible says Christians will be known by their love for their fellow man.
(And no, this does not mean cheering on our fellow man's sins, but to pray for them to repent)

It’s like when you’re given a worldly issue or problem, you have no problem reacting to it in a natural manner, for example if your home or property or family (God Forbid) were under attack, you know full well you would defend yourself instinctively. But the Bible preaches otherwise and you’re defending it without actually pondering on whether it’s possible to turn a blind eye to everyday threats?

I am of the opinion that property is not to be defended with force. Others are free to disagree.

As for my family, i have to admit that is a tricky one. I am a peace with the fact that during the end times i may be killed for my beliefs but yes, thinking about my children being hurt breaks my heart.

The Bible mentions a time when lack of children is a blessing

Luke 23
29For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. 30Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us

Of course, the primary application is to the time of the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem by the romans, but a second appication both to the end times and to Christians that have been martyred throughout history, including by other "Christians".

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

I guess American English is pretty different to British English. I mean anyone who has studied Shakespeare at a basic level will be familiar with the us of the majestic ‘we’. Maybe it’s more of a British thing? We learn it in secondary school so it’s not weird here.

Well the Bible was revealed in a Semitic language so I don’t think seeing majestic plurals in your copy today is odd. I’d argue they’re also majestic plurals which don’t refer to the common use of plural nouns. Hence, your reading of Jesus being present when God was making man kind isn’t a strong reading of that verse you’re referring to.

If he was supposedly present when god was creating mankind, what was his role? How did he look like as he certainly wasn’t human was he?

Yeah, as God is my witness, i am telling the truth that i had never heard of it before yesterday. Never paid much attention to shakespeare during class either.

The part about God referring to Himself in the plural in Genesis 1 and 11 is a common atheist/alternative argument when trying to disprove God in favor of theories about alien creation and such.

He looked like a man, as during the verses i've posted previously when a preincarnate Jesus and two angels visited Abraham (Genesis 18), described as "three men".

 

[phipps]

No, you cannot compare The Eternal WITHOUT BEGINNING NOR END to what had a beginning which is the human body.

Like mother, like son.
But, like mother, like daughter too.
And Mary's father, her own flesh too.
All those ascendants of Jesus go way back to Adam and Eve, first humans Created by God.

So a Prophet is a very special human being, true, but remains human nonetheless, no matter his miracles, it is God Who Empowers, whether one is good or evil.

Not according to the Bible which I believe is the infallible Word of God. And again God can do anything and has power to do things beyond our human reckoning.

 

[Zakat]

Not according to the Bible which i believe is the infallible Word of God. And again God can do anything and has power to do things beyond our human reckoning.

Say if you were the King of Planet Earth, would you make somebody else your equal?

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

I’ve been on these boards since about 2017 and it’s the same old thing Daze. They start a thread about Islam or comparing the Bible and the Quran. They get upset when asked things about their book then go on the attack with these old and washed up arguments they pick out from hate preachers and enemies of Islam.

I have answered all their questions and given them links and evidence but they still insist their interpretation of Islam is correct. It’s pure arrogance and it’s a shame the likes of Phipps is spreading lies like that when he’s supposed to be an embodiment of Jesus’ way pbuh.

I don't know if this was referring to me, since i started this thread...

Was i just supposed to not have made the thread in the first place?

Perhaps it is the way my mind works, but to me, when comparing and contrasting two different things it is not an "attack". I genuinely don't understand why people seem to take it that way.

Moving forward, will me reading the entire Quran make it so i can discuss the differences or similarities?
Is that allowed, or is that also an "attack"?

Is ANYTHING other than full agreement an "attack"?

 

[phipps]

Say if you were the King of Planet Earth, would you make somebody else your equal?

God the Father did not make Jesus His equal, Jesus was always His equal as indeed was the Holy Spirit. All three of the Persons of the Godhead have always been God from everlasting. They are NOT created beings. The Bible says of Jesus, “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily” (Colossians 2:9). Jesus Christ was the physical manifestation of the eternal God, sent to us to redeem us from the curse of sin. This is the truth of the Bible, the Word of God and the Word is also Jesus who created this world and dwelt among us to be able to save us, “For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost” (Matthew 18:11).

 

[Flarepath]

Can I add that John 1 cements the fact that Jesus is God..(John 1:1-4, 14).

Nah, Jesus said multiple times that he WASN'T God, for example-
“Why do you call me good?..No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
"I say nothing of my own accord, I only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)
The High Priest asks- "Are you the Son of God?", and Jesus replies - "I am" (Mark 14:61/62)
And God himself said - "This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matthew 17:5)
So if you don't believe them you're a prime candidate for-

 

[Zakat]

God the Father did not make Jesus His equal, Jesus was always His equal as indeed was the Holy Spirit. All three of the Persons of the Godhead have always been God from everlasting. They are NOT created beings. The Bible says of Jesus, “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily” (Colossians 2:9). Jesus Christ was the physical manifestation of the eternal God, sent to us to redeem us from the curse of sin. This is the truth of the Bible, the Word of God and the Word is also Jesus who created this world and dwelt among us to be able to save us, “For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost” (Matthew 18:11).

Why did you not answer my question?

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

I found this article

It cleared up some of my questions about the Islamic view point, so im posting some parts here.

In short, Muslims believe the Torah has been corrupted, the Psalms have had additions, and the four Gospels are not inspired and were not written by Jesus (a claim which i don't think any Christian has made)

Do Muslims Believe in the Bible? - Islam Compass

It is a common misconception people have, both non-Muslims, and Muslims alike, that Muslims believe in the Bible we have today. Let me explain how and why people tend to think this, and why it is an incorrect thought, easily proven by the Qur’an of their misunderstanding. Since Muslims believe...

islamcompass.com

It is a common misconception people have, both non-Muslims, and Muslims alike, that Muslims believe in the Bible we have today.

Let me explain how and why people tend to think this, and why it is an incorrect thought, easily proven by the Qur’an of their misunderstanding.

Since Muslims believe in the prophets of the Bible, people mistakenly assume we also believe in the Bible, which is not accurate.

Muslims believe in all the scriptures that were revealed to the messenger prophets such as those given to Moses, David, Abraham, Jesus, as well as Muhammad (peace be upon them all).

Does this mean we believe in the Bible scriptures? – No.

We believe in the original revelations that were given to them, and those scriptures were either lost, or corrupted

...

According to the Qur’an, the Torah was given to Moses pbuh, however, over time, scribes and editors have corrupted the text. Therefore; what is found in the Bible today, is not the original revelations as it was given to Moses pbuh.



While the Qur’an mentions that scripture was given to David pbuh, some of it is accepted by scholars, while it is understood that some may have been added later and not part of the divine revelation originally sent to him.

...

The Injil is the revelation that was given to Jesus pbuh according to the Qur’an. Muslims believe it was another scripture that was revelation given to him by God, and not the accounts of other people simply discussing it, as in the New Testament that exists today.

Today’s canonical Gospels are not divinely inspired and more or less merely the documents of the life of Jesus pbuh written by disciples, companions and others. While it contains some information that may be true, it holds a lot which is not the teachings of Jesus pbuh, but were the teachings of others instead.




The question that remains, which i haven't been able to find the answer to, WHO allegedly corrupted the Scriptures?

If it had been the catholic church then one would think they would have edited them to support their unbiblical teachings..?
Why would the ancient Israelites have purposely corrupted their own scriptures especially to present their own people in such an unflattering light?

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

I had not realized before how much Muslims dislike the apostle Paul...

From the same site:

Paul The False Apostle of Satan - Islam Compass

Listen to this Mohamad Mostafa NassarTwitter:@NassarMohamadMR :

islamcompass.com

The site refers to Paul as the antichrist and claims he is the false prophet being referred to in Deuteronomy 18.

There's also a video posted which is either purposely deceptive or misinformed. Claims that Paul was not to go to the gentiles because Jesus ignored gentiles during His ministry. Gives Matthew 15:23-26 as proof, and completely ignores Matthew 28 (after the resurrection) :
when Jesus says
16Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

The entire book of Acts tells us how it came to be that the ministry stopped being to the Israelites primarily and was open to the gentiles. As Peter was ashamed of being seen interacting with gentiles by the other Jews, Paul was brought in as the apostle to the gentiles. Either this site's author has not bothered to read this book or is purposely hiding the information.

I realize if he is a Muslim he believes it's all corrupted and/or made up anyway, but that doesn't change the fact that he is picking and choosing which parts fit his narrarive,


Is this site "Islam compass" an accurate repressentation of Islamic apologetics, or is it considered a site with an agenda?

 

[Daze]

I found this article

It cleared up some of my questions about the Islamic view point, so im posting some parts here.

In short, Muslims believe the Torah has been corrupted, the Psalms have had additions, and the four Gospels are not inspired and were not written by Jesus (a claim which i don't think any Christian has made)

Do Muslims Believe in the Bible? - Islam Compass

It is a common misconception people have, both non-Muslims, and Muslims alike, that Muslims believe in the Bible we have today. Let me explain how and why people tend to think this, and why it is an incorrect thought, easily proven by the Qur’an of their misunderstanding. Since Muslims believe...

islamcompass.com

It is a common misconception people have, both non-Muslims, and Muslims alike, that Muslims believe in the Bible we have today.

Let me explain how and why people tend to think this, and why it is an incorrect thought, easily proven by the Qur’an of their misunderstanding.

Since Muslims believe in the prophets of the Bible, people mistakenly assume we also believe in the Bible, which is not accurate.

Muslims believe in all the scriptures that were revealed to the messenger prophets such as those given to Moses, David, Abraham, Jesus, as well as Muhammad (peace be upon them all).

Does this mean we believe in the Bible scriptures? – No.

We believe in the original revelations that were given to them, and those scriptures were either lost, or corrupted

...

According to the Qur’an, the Torah was given to Moses pbuh, however, over time, scribes and editors have corrupted the text. Therefore; what is found in the Bible today, is not the original revelations as it was given to Moses pbuh.



While the Qur’an mentions that scripture was given to David pbuh, some of it is accepted by scholars, while it is understood that some may have been added later and not part of the divine revelation originally sent to him.

...

The Injil is the revelation that was given to Jesus pbuh according to the Qur’an. Muslims believe it was another scripture that was revelation given to him by God, and not the accounts of other people simply discussing it, as in the New Testament that exists today.

Today’s canonical Gospels are not divinely inspired and more or less merely the documents of the life of Jesus pbuh written by disciples, companions and others. While it contains some information that may be true, it holds a lot which is not the teachings of Jesus pbuh, but were the teachings of others instead.




The question that remains, which i haven't been able to find the answer to, WHO allegedly corrupted the Scriptures?

If it had been the catholic church then one would think they would have edited them to support their unbiblical teachings..?
Why would the ancient Israelites have purposely corrupted their own scriptures especially to present their own people in such an unflattering light?

Muslims do believe in the Bible.




Problem is, what you have today is not what God sent down. Stop and think. Jews reject God having a Son. Muslims reject God having a son.
Abundant proof that the Bible has in fact been changed and is still being changed.

But you still act like John 3:16 is not an interpolation.

WHO allegedly corrupted the Scriptures?

I would say lots of people, everyone who benefited from it. The church, the Jews, Even Kings and Queens.

 

[Daze]

I had not realized before how much Muslims dislike the apostle Paul...

You seem to be on a Muslim rant lately. Maybe the problem with Paul is he's a liar?



"Through my lie" he says.

Ironic, isn't it? Seeing bearing false witness is a violation of the 10 commandments.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

Muslims do believe in the Bible.

View attachment 96010


Problem is, what you have today is not what God sent down. Stop and think. Jews reject God having a Son. Muslims reject God having a son.
Abundant proof that the Bible has in fact been changed and is still being changed.

But you still act like John 3:16 is not an interpolation.




I would say lots of people, everyone who benefited from it. The church, the Jews, Even Kings and Queens.

What you are saying is "Muslims believe in the Bible, but not what comes to mind of most people people when referring to 'the Bible' ".

By this point in the thread it's no longer just a matter of Jesus being God's son. There have been many differences been pointed out. Differences which the Jews would claim are accurate to their scriptures, unless you're saying that they also deny their own scriptures.

What is the official answer of who allegedly corrupted the Bible?

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

You seem to be on a Muslim rant lately. Maybe the problem with Paul is he's a liar?

View attachment 96016

"Through my lie" he says.

Ironic, isn't it? Seeing bearing false witness is a violation of the 10 commandments.

A "rant"?! I quote a site called "Islamcompass" and i'm on a rant...

Fact is, you've repeatedly accused me of having an agenda based on my sources, my questions, and just about everything i say.

My only "agenda" in this thread is to discuss the differences between the Bible and Islam. As Paul wrote a good amount of the New Testament, the Islamic opinion of him is relevant.

I'm not even trying to convert anyone (as you yourself say, "God guides who He will"). Why so defensive?

 

[Daze]

What you are saying is "Muslims believe in the Bible, but not what comes to mind of most people people when referring to 'the Bible' ".

By this point in the thread it's no longer just a matter of Jesus being God's son. There have been many differences been pointed out. Differences which the Jews would claim are accurate to their scriptures, unless you're saying that they also deny their own scriptures.

What is the official answer of who allegedly corrupted the Bible?

I'm saying it needs to be in the Quran to verify it.

If it's not in the Quran, Like Prophet David killing a man, so he can sleep with his wife. Then we scrutinize it. Since it's not fitting for a prophet of God to commit murder, so he can fornicate, we throw it out.

You can see differences all day if it makes you happy. Being a Christian for 30 years, I don't see it that way.

I'm sure there is much of the Bible you'd throw out yourself. Such as killing your own family if they leave the religion. Because turn the other cheek, right?

What is the official answer of who allegedly corrupted the Bible?

I'm hardly "official" but I already told you. Whoever benefited from changing the Bible did so. We both know it wasn't one source that led to the creation of 2000+ Bibles today.

What you should be asking is, "the Bible is changed, why am I betting my forever after on it?"

Peace Toxic.

 

[Daze]

A "rant"?! I quote a site called "Islamcompass" and i'm on a rant...

Fact is, you've repeatedly accused me of having an agenda based on my sources, my questions, and just about everything i say.

My only "agenda" in this thread is to discuss the differences between the Bible and Islam. As Paul wrote a good amount of the New Testament, the Islamic opinion of him is relevant.

I'm not even trying to convert anyone (as you yourself say, "God guides who He will"). Why so defensive?

I'm not defensive at all. Perhaps things are lost in text.

What difference does the name of a website make? How do you know Muslims are behind it? How do you know they're not Ahmidiyyas? Who are a sect that believes Jesus already returned and died.

I guess my main question is, what's your obsession with Islam anyway? When I read what you say..

I had not realized before how much Muslims dislike the apostle Paul...

Really doesn't seem you're trying to understand Islam, but are working to demonize it.

You made this thread for what purpose? 20 pages with Haich giving you what I'm sure were hours invested, and you're still not convinced?
Has your question not been answered?


Like I told you, Toxic. I was a Christian for 30 years, 14 as a Muslim. The biggest difference between the religions is the status of Jesus. Everything else is minor, like the Nephlim for example. Because certain beliefs are not putting you into hell. But know it enrages God when you set up partners with him. Something I am absolutely and completely free of. Indeed, there is no god but God and Jesus was his servant and messenger.

Peace.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

I'm saying it needs to be in the Quran to verify it.

If it's not in the Quran, Like Prophet David killing a man, so he can sleep with his wife. Then we scrutinize it. Since it's not fitting for a prophet of God to commit murder, so he can fornicate, we throw it out.

You can see differences all day if it makes you happy. Being a Christian for 30 years, I don't see it that way.

I'm sure there is much of the Bible you'd throw out yourself. Such as killing your own family if they leave the religion. Because turn the other cheek, right?

Well good thing the Bible ALSO does not say David killed a man in order to sleep with his wife, as i've repeatedly said...

Yes, the Old Testament said a man should kill his wife if she was trying to get him to worship the false gods. There was a good reason: the ancient Israelites were surrounded by human sacrificing pagans and God didn't want any of that filth infiltrating the Israelites. Same reason why eunuchs were not allowed in the congregation, or men who's paternity was disputed - they could have been infiltrators for the surrounding pagans (which had castrated priests and didnt record paternity).


The New Testament does not give the command to do this. It does say to separate ourselves from non believers, and when Christians actually follow that they are called a "cult".

Turn the other cheek (which you mentioned in your reply to me in the other thread, but its more appropruate here in the religion section) is commonly misunderstood. It does not mean to celebrate or encourage sin. It means if someone sins against me i should forgive them, not retaliate.

If a family member were to go worship false gods how are they sinning against me? Theyre not, God will deal with them. Doesn't mean i should follow them into apostasy or encourage it.

What difference does the name of a website make? How do you know Muslims are behind it? How do you know they're not Ahmidiyyas? Who are a sect that believes Jesus already returned and died.

I guess my main question is, what's your obsession with Islam anyway?

I dont know who's behind it. I did ask if thats a site with an agenda.

And i thought you said that unlike Christianity there are no sects...

No obsession, though i realize when i get in research mode it comes across that way to others.

Really doesn't seem you're trying to understand Islam, but are working to demonize it.

You made this thread for what purpose? 20 pages with Haich giving you what I'm sure were hours invested, and you're still not convinced?
Has your question not been answered?


Like I told you, Toxic. I was a Christian for 30 years, 14 as a Muslim. The biggest difference between the religions is the status of Jesus. Everything else is minor, like the Nephlim for example. Because certain beliefs are not putting you into hell. But know it enrages God when you set up partners with him. Something I am absolutely and completely free of. Indeed, there is no god but God and Jesus was his servant and messenger.

I already said the purpose: to discuss the differences.

You act like if i haven't spent a good amount of my own time as well...
Not to mention how many of the pages are distractions and off topic posts.

And i disagree about the other differences being minor.

I also know that it enrages the world to hear about Jesus, atheists and religious people alike.
If and when the noahide laws come in it will be Christians alone who will be martyred.