Without Tawheed, all your deeds are useless and worthless.

[Daze]

@Daze,

Your judgments about me aside, the information presented is just FYI and being shared for everyone's benefit, and in the hope that you and others may be guided, to give it the propper and due consideration that is merited.

For you and others to be able to take note and be aware of, and to either accept or not accept.

The Holy Quran states it unequivocally.

43:2 By the Book that makes things clear,

I suggest you ask the Almighty about it and for Guidance, to the path that is most pleasing to Him.

Peace be upon you.

Who do you think you are benefiting when you remove the prophet (saw) from the Quran?

Your religions is one that strikes me as a group that takes bits and pieces from every faith and then merges them all together.

Very "new age-y", Abrahamic accords type of kufr.

 

[AspiringSoul]

Who do you think you are benefiting when you remove the prophet (saw) from the Quran?

Your religions is one that strikes me as a group that takes bits and pieces from every faith and then merges them all together.

Very "new age-y", Abrahamic accords type of kufr.

Daze, the Quran literally confirmed the authenticity and truth of the Torah and the Gospel, in the present tense, in the 7th century.
the prophet SAW held the torah and said 'I BELIEVE IN YOU'

the only thing that was ever up for doubt, was regarding translations and interpretations
but many Quranic tafsir and translations are also in error these days.

just saying.

 

[AspiringSoul]

@Maldarker
i actually forgotto point this out before...
no excuse for me here...but islam has died aswell...

the 1260 lunar yrs are up.
this links to hadith, read this hadith

Narrated Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman: The people used to ask Allah's Apostle about good, but I used to ask him about evil for fear that it might overtake me. Once I said, "O Allah's Apostle! We were in ignorance and in evil and Allah has bestowed upon us the present good; will there by any evil after this good?" He said, "Yes." I asked, "Will there be good after that evil?" He said, "Yes, but it would be tained with Dakhan (i.e. Little evil)." I asked, "What will its Dakhan be?" He said, "There will be some people who will lead (people) according to principles other than my tradition. You will see their actions and disapprove of them." I said, "Will there by any evil after that good?" He said, "Yes, there will be some people who will invite others to the doors of Hell, and whoever accepts their invitation to it will be thrown in it (by them)." I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Describe those people to us." He said, "They will belong to us and speak our language" I asked, "What do you order me to do if such a thing should take place in my life?" He said, "Adhere to the group of Muslims and their Chief." I asked, "If there is neither a group (of Muslims) nor a chief (what shall I do)?" He said, "Keep away from all those different sects, even if you had to bite (i.e. eat) the root of a tree, till you meet Allah while you are still in that state." (Book #56, Hadith #803)

the first evil, was proven by the first loss of jerusalem.
then the rise of sufi islam, hence the arab wahabi/salafi movement accuses the sufis of 'bidah, innovation'
in the context, sufi islam was stgill good
"There will be some people who will lead (people) according to principles other than my tradition. You will see their actions and disapprove of them.""

not perfect, but still good.
then came islamic revivialism and the wahabi movement in saudi.

the end game is the prophet told muslims to avoid ALL those sects and die believing in Allah. the description is such an extreme, to illustrate the importance of staying away from all groups.


if you look at Rev 11, the 1260 'days' (in the context, lunar yrs) prophecy of islamic rule in the holy land is finished. we are in that stage wehre jerusalem is 'sodom and egypt' (masonic gay parade city) and the only thing left of islam is personal iman (belief).

in this state, it goes without saying we're in deep problems. there's a loto f evil going on.

 

[Daze]

Daze, the Quran literally confirmed the authenticity and truth of the Torah and the Gospel, in the present tense, in the 7th century.
the prophet SAW held the torah and said 'I BELIEVE IN YOU'

the only thing that was ever up for doubt, was regarding translations and interpretations
but many Quranic tafsir and translations are also in error these days.

just saying.

We acknowledge all 3 books originated from the God of Abraham.

However mankind has obviously edited the Torah and Injeel.
To the point where there are 2000+ Bibles today.






Duet 23:20



Those who consume interest cannot stand [on the Day of Resurrection] except as one stands who is being beaten by Satan into insanity.
(2:275 Quran)

Pretty contradictory, wouldn't you say?



Idk know if there is truth to what you claim about the prophet (saw) as I've never heard it before. I suppose it is possible because i imagine 1400 years ago it had alot less edits.

But do you think he would do the same today?

 

[Maldarker]

you werent paying attention. i said we muslims do sin, but we carry a deep guilt compex. we bring about our own suffering in this life by extention of our own sin.
What we dont do is, commit sins and think 'im saved, only Jesus is perfect' etc.
i could go into a deeper explaination why i speak how i do, but for the record my harsh language is reserved for deserving people. Claire deserves it.

whatever we are in this world, if one truely believes in christianity...why would you celebrate lies all the time? literally 'my priest is an ex muslim saudi arabian ex scholar, 'brother amir'. Whilst she posts an image from an antiislam wiki page that attributes a translation from a nazi.
how does lying aid your beliefs?
this is not a one off, she's only ever done this her entire time on here and she purposely ignores me (ive been respectful towards her all that time prior).

So she insulted your priest? If this is the case sorry did not know that. I understand how you would be upset.

 

[AspiringSoul]

We acknowledge all 3 books originated from the God of Abraham.

However mankind has obviously edited the Torah and Injeel.
To the point where there are 2000+ Bibles today.

View attachment 89848




Duet 23:20
View attachment 89847


Those who consume interest cannot stand [on the Day of Resurrection] except as one stands who is being beaten by Satan into insanity.
(2:275 Quran)

Pretty contradictory, wouldn't you say?



Idk know if there is truth to what you claim about the prophet (saw) as I've never heard it before. I suppose it is possible because i imagine 1400 years ago it had alot less edits.

But do you think he would do the same today?

View attachment 89849

1) translations also apply to the Quran..it doesnt change the fact that the Quran in the 7th century confirmed the Torah
you have to be careful beyond this point

2) that is the Mosaic law, the Quran is shariah law. alcohol is haram for us, it wasnt for them.
i do believe that at some point usury was completely haram for jews aswell...i just cant remember the book/chapter/verse to this story.
at some point the jews started charhing their own kind interest. One of the prophets then completely outlawed it.

3) i was talking about the torah of coruse, but the Quran also confirmed the GOSPEL in the present tense too back then, so the same argument on my side applies.
Howevera about that John 3:16 quote...
i have covered this topic so many times that id expect you to easily understand this..

THE SON(Ben Elohim) is a symbolic judaic term attached to the Greek term LOGOS.
The greeks persecuted jews. Read about the maccabean revolt. Thus the average jew would not be so suscpeticle to accept a foreign term into their religion. The man responsible for linking this term 'Son' with the Logos, was Philo. A hellenised jewish philosopher living in Egypt. His intentions were good though, he understand in his own mind, that this is just symbolic lingo. In the old testament, Judah and Israel were likened to God's brides...specifically as whores lol. Yet israel was also called 'God's FIRST BORN'. again it is symbolic language. the common jew has always understood this.
the problem occurs when gentile christians living in europe, devoid of any knowledge of terminology, took it literally and literally thought baby Jesus was the literal physical son of a physical humanoid giant God. literally even on this forum there are people who literally believe God is a giant humanoid who lives in heaven.

furthermore, even with such language, it can be divine, because there is a deeper mythos and hikmah at play here.

as for the hadith
you should use searchtruth.com
the search function on there will help

the issue was always about interpretations/false translations
Narrated Abu Huraira: The people of the Scripture used to read the torah in Hebrew and explain it to the Muslims in Arabic. Then Allah's Apostle said, "Do not believe the people of the Scripture, and do not disbelieve them, but say, 'We believe in Allah and whatever has been revealed...' (3.84) (Book #93, Hadith #632)

the other hadith is this one
Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar: A group of Jews came and invited the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) to Quff. So he visited them in their school. They said: AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them. They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) who sat on it and said: Bring the torah. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the torah on it saying: I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee. He then said: Bring me one who is learned among you. Then a young man was brought. The transmitter then mentioned the rest of the tradition of stoning similar to the one transmitted by Malik from Nafi'(No. 4431). (Book #38, Hadith #4434)

Also about the Gospel...
) Narrated 'Aisha: (the mother of the faithful believers) The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright day light, and then the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship (Allah alone) continuously for many days before his desire to see his family. He used to take with him the journey food for the stay and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read. The Prophet added, "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied, 'I do not know how to read.' Thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but again I replied, 'I do not know how to read (or what shall I read)?' Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said, 'Read in the name of your Lord, who has created (all that exists) has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous." (96.1, 96.2, 96.3) Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and after that he told her everything that had happened and said, "I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija replied, "Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your Kith and kin, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guests generously and assist the deserving calamity-afflicted ones." Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza, who, during the PreIslamic Period became a Christian and used to write the writing with Hebrew letters. He would write from the gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, "Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!" Waraqa asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" Allah's Apostle described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, "This is the same one who keeps the secrets (angel Gabriel) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they drive me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said, "Anyone (man) who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while. Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah Al-Ansari while talking about the period of pause in revelation reporting the speech of the Prophet "While I was walking, all of a sudden I heard a voice from the sky. I looked up and saw the same angel who had visited me at the cave of Hira' sitting on a chair between the sky and the earth. I got afraid of him and came back home and said, 'Wrap me (in blankets).' And then Allah revealed the following Holy Verses (of Quran): 'O you (i.e. Muhammad)! wrapped up in garments!' Arise and warn (the people against Allah's Punishment),... up to 'and desert the idols.' (74.1-5) After this the revelation started coming strongly, frequently and regularly." (Book #1, Hadith #3)


have a little think...this man used to translate the 'gospel' into hebrew...
for it to be referred to as 'the gospel' means it was legitimate and existed in that time period. 'as much as ALLAH wished him to write'. so there was a divine hand in this aswell...

basically whenever muslims attack the bible, they go deep into history, they attack the origin of the 4 gospels, their authors etc. Yet THE Gospel the Quran confirms is long after that.
Furthermore, put that argument along with this

O you who believe! Be you helpers (in the Cause) of Allah as said 'Îsa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), to the Hawariyyun (the disciples): "Who are my helpers (in the Cause) of Allah?" The Hawariyyun (the disciples) said: "We are Allah's helpers" (i.e. we will strive in His Cause!). Then a group of the Children of Israel believed and a group disbelieved. So We gave power to those who believed against their enemies, and they became the victorious (uppermost).
(سورة الصف, As-Saff, Chapter #61, Verse #14)


basically, the version of christianity that won, at least back then in the early period...was the Pauline version. Furthermore, the 4 gospels.
This is all based on a basic reading of the Quran. How come other muslims cant conclude the same thing? cuz they are beardbros. they only do dawah to get 4 hijabi wives. the islam/dawah routine is part of the act. ive seen it ALL man. ive observed these people my wholelife. they are so transparent.

the focus here was on the jews (bani israel) also which is important. where christianity was ruined, was in gentile hands, via Rome, the Beast and the trinitarian doctrine.
This is why it was necessary for a new prophet and law bringer, shariah, the Quran etc...it's a process all based upon Pauline logic. literally paul's arguments directly lend credit to islam, if you understand him at all.
the ave muslim disses paul and makes my job harder.
when muslims attack the crucifixion with no prior knowledge of the topic, it only causes more problems.

oh one last thing...

whilst The Son, is only metaphorical/symbolic judaic language, john 3:16 is not being downplayed, Jesus Christ was the incarnation of the LOGOS (THE WORD).

171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity": desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
(سورة النساء, An-Nisaa, Chapter #4, Verse #171)

the whole thing about Jesus 'saving the world from sin' in itself is misunderstood too. it isnt as simple as saying 'yes he is the Word and the Messiah' and suddenly all sin is dealt with. it isnt even about the accountability of sin. it's about the death of the nafs itself..and it is based heavily on what Jesus and the LOGOS represents..that is, the higher path of IHSAN.

i should also add that if the crucifixion is supposed to save us all from sin...the crucifixion also means the rejection of Jesus Christ by the jews, which brings about the gentile era
'by their tresspass the gentiles are reckoned'...and it is from that that prophet Mohammad and islam became possible aswell.

the crucifixion leads to islam...

isaiah 40
A voice of one calling:
“In the wilderness prepare
the way for the Lord[a];
make straight in the desert
a highway for our God

how does islam specifically 'prepare the way' for the second coming..and why?
it's because if you read the pauline epistles, Paul argued that the early gentile christians were like the original patriarchs (Abraham to Joseph) ie 'righteous by faith before the law of Moses). He then added that the law of Moses was given to them only after they lost faith in egypt.
The law of Moses was diesgned to 'reveal the depths of sin' so people could recognise their weakness to sin and thus, enable Jesus to bring God's GRACE.
so how much greater is that Grace, when the 2bill gentile muslims recognise their sin due to shariah and our failures...?

compare a few million jews in the 1st century needing saving...to 2billion+ under shariah.

in fact this verse in isaiah 40 is typically applied to john the Baptist in John 1
however it is misinterpreted really...
John the Baptist was the 'voice of one calling'
but he was pointing to the wilderness..to say '
'prepare the way for the straight path in the wilderness'

23 John replied in the words of Isaiah the prophet, “I am the voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way for the Lord

i bet what he really said was
“I am the voice of one calling "in the wilderness, make straight the way for the Lord"
as opposed to
I am the voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way for the Lord

afterall my version actually connects with isaiah 40 correctly

the point im making here is...we're intelligent enough, posess enough information and tools to do our research a lot better than muslims were capable of in the 7th century.

 

[AspiringSoul]

So she insulted your priest? If this is the case sorry did not know that. I understand how you would be upset.

?
no, she lied and made up a fake story about having an ex muslim (how convenient, in her dreams) priest who is also saudi arabian (how convenient, so he can perfectly translate a quranic/arabic word more credibly than anyone else on here lol) followed by posting a picture linked to a nazi arab to english dictionary.

think about what is goingo n in her heart, to sit there making up stories about fake ex muslim saudi arabian priest 'brother amir' literally as if he really exists...whilst trying to shoehorn a nazi text in as legitimate because of her fake story.

the muslims told her 'no that's a bad translation, it means this'
'DR is arab'
and to that, Claire says
'nah brudda ameer sededed who is from saudi arabia and hates islam, he wouldnt lie'
then she resorted to 'dat takkiyah doe, u are taught to lie'

for the record...in islam, under no circumstances can a muslim ever lie about his faith, claim he is a non-muslim...UNLESS his life is at risk. Even then, it is far more prefferable and honourable to die a martyrs death in defence of islam, than to say 'yup am not a muzzy and u can call me MO lulz'.
However, what if a man has a disabled mother, wife, child etc to take care of? then he needs to live for their sake. that's the only type of context where it's prefferable to conceal being muslim.
THIS btw was moreso applicable back then in the 7th century mecca when the meccan pagans used to literally butcher muslims, who were their own people who'd accepted muslim. back then there were muslims who were afraid to reveal their new religion to their family.
kind of the same as what happened to christian jews (as per luke 21, they were persecuted, put to death, imprisoned etc).

the concept of takkiyah was revived by shia in modern times because salafist nutters decided 'shia are kuuffaarz, we can murder them'.
so the shia imams concluded 'look if you're life is at risk, just dont reveal you're shia'

i dont understand how people like claire think this applies to beardbros stood in hyde park/speakers corner. literally xtians keep on convincing themselbes that muslims are told 'its okay to bs about your real beliefs to trick people'
ive seen a video where a speakers corner xtian girl literally told muslims that 'basically, you guys know full well you worship satan, but you're told to hide it and pretend you worship God instead, cuz of takkiyah'

crazy.

 

[Maldarker]

?
no, she lied and made up a fake story about having an ex muslim (how convenient, in her dreams) priest who is also saudi arabian (how convenient, so he can perfectly translate a quranic/arabic word more credibly than anyone else on here lol) followed by posting a picture linked to a nazi arab to english dictionary.

think about what is goingo n in her heart, to sit there making up stories about fake ex muslim saudi arabian priest 'brother amir' literally as if he really exists...whilst trying to shoehorn a nazi text in as legitimate because of her fake story.

the muslims told her 'no that's a bad translation, it means this'
'DR is arab'
and to that, Claire says
'nah brudda ameer sededed who is from saudi arabia and hates islam, he wouldnt lie'
then she resorted to 'dat takkiyah doe, u are taught to lie'

for the record...in islam, under no circumstances can a muslim ever lie about his faith, claim he is a non-muslim...UNLESS his life is at risk. Even then, it is far more prefferable and honourable to die a martyrs death in defence of islam, than to say 'yup am not a muzzy and u can call me MO lulz'.
However, what if a man has a disabled mother, wife, child etc to take care of? then he needs to live for their sake. that's the only type of context where it's prefferable to conceal being muslim.
THIS btw was moreso applicable back then in the 7th century mecca when the meccan pagans used to literally butcher muslims, who were their own people who'd accepted muslim. back then there were muslims who were afraid to reveal their new religion to their family.
kind of the same as what happened to christian jews (as per luke 21, they were persecuted, put to death, imprisoned etc).

the concept of takkiyah was revived by shia in modern times because salafist nutters decided 'shia are kuuffaarz, we can murder them'.
so the shia imams concluded 'look if you're life is at risk, just dont reveal you're shia'

i dont understand how people like claire think this applies to beardbros stood in hyde park/speakers corner. literally xtians keep on convincing themselbes that muslims are told 'its okay to bs about your real beliefs to trick people'
ive seen a video where a speakers corner xtian girl literally told muslims that 'basically, you guys know full well you worship satan, but you're told to hide it and pretend you worship God instead, cuz of takkiyah'

crazy.

I understand the explaination makes sense on why being upset. Thank you for the clarity. See i feel the same way about my beliefs that i already accept that if i need to die for my belief then fine i will never denounce the ONE who saved me. Hope you understand. I was a very bad person and turned from sin when i had a personel encounter with CHRIST. Similar to Paul's. Thats why i am adamant on my stance of CHRIST HE's my rock and salvation. No one else. btw if you think its a licesne to sin then you have been around the worse of them and i am truly sorry for such a bad portrait. Lots of pretenders however and im thinking this is the evil ones ploy wolves sheeps clothing and all need to destroy the brand give a bad name like it causes is cancer in kids etc i mean come on prosperity gospel WT heck is that? So i get where your coming from. Just would ask for maybe less vulgarity towards each other. GOD BLESS!

 

[The Sojourner]

Who do you think you are benefiting when you remove the prophet (saw) from the Quran?

Your religions is one that strikes me as a group that takes bits and pieces from every faith and then merges them all together.

Very "new age-y", Abrahamic accords type of kufr.

The Quran is the Message* that was given to the prophet to deliver to mankind.

There is even a hadith (probably in there for those who read it) that has the prophet saying "do not write down any hadith from me, except for the Quran" (not an exact quote, but it is well known).

People try to explain that away, by saying things like it was only for a limited time, But such explanations do not make sense when you think about it,

You will likely continue to attack this message, but it is only to point out what the Book is saying, as it speaks for itself. We can believe God, or we can choose to believe men instead, that is a choice we each need to make.

* - This is what a prophet does, deliver the Message that is from Allah. It was also the same with Jesus, and all of the other prophets. Phrases like "The Word of The "I AM" came to so-and-so the prophet and said..." are common throughout the Old Testament/Covenant of the Bible.
Issa/Jesus said in the Injeel "My doctrine is not mine, but His Who sent me."
etc.

Peace.

 

[Daze]

The Quran is the Message that was given to the prophet to deliver to mankind.

There is even a hadith (probably in there for those who read it) that has the prophet saying "do not write down any hadith from me, except for the Quran" (not an exact quote, but it is well known).

People try to explain that away, by saying things like it was only for a limited time, But such explanations do not make sense when you think about it,

You will likely continue to attack this message, but it is only to point out what the Book is saying, as it speaks for itself. We can believe God, or we can choose to believe men instead, that is a choice we each need to make.

Produce the hadith so i can at least see the authenticity and the context it is used in. You say it is well known? That means it is easy to find.

I'm not attacking anyone. You're the one making threads here telling Muslims whose a Muslim and whose not.. while you yourself are not a Muslim at all.

 

[The Sojourner]

Produce the hadith so i can at least see the authenticity and the context it is used in. You say it is well known? That means it is easy to find.

I'm not attacking anyone. You're the one making threads here telling Muslims whose a Muslim and whose not.. while you yourself are not a Muslim at all.

It is discussed on many sites. Here is one which is as far as I can tell, from an Islamic source:

The soundness of the hadeeth “Do not write anything from me…” and explanation of what it means - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not write anything from me; whoever has written anything from me other than the Qur’aan, let him erase it and narrate from me, for there is nothing wrong with that.” (Narrated by Muslim, al-Zuhd wa’l-Raqaa’iq, 5326)

According to this source, when it comes to the offered conclusion - "This is most likely to be the case."

As far as being a muslim, I believe that is for Allah to judge, as to who is considered to be muslim (faithful) and who is not, by Him.

Peace.

 

[90sWereBetter]

The soundness of the hadeeth “Do not write anything from me…” and explanation of what it means - Islam Question & Answer

islamqa.info

It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Do not write anything from me; whoever has written anything from me other than the Qur’aan, let him erase it and narrate from me, for there is nothing wrong with that.” (Narrated by Muslim, al-Zuhd wa’l-Raqaa’iq, 5326)

it's very convenient how you left out the article's explanation of the hadith. it is an authentic hadith from saheeh muslim but it doesn't mean what Quranists would like people to think it means.