Are new covenant saints called to keep the law?

TokiEl

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7,239
In order to acctually keep the law you have to observe it perfectly. If you violate only one precept then you are lawbreaker.
Right.

Everybody out of ignorance error or malice has broken the law.

Some more than others of course... so the worst of us should be stripped naked flogged and hung up on a cross for the world to watch and mock.


Even for these it is possible to be saved and not condemned since Jesus shed His blood for all.

All who call on the Name of Jesus will be saved.


After that and filled with the Holy spirit... does the idolater continue to ignore God or the thief continue to steal or the rapist continue to r*pe etc etc... No of course not !
 

Lyfe

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Right.

Everybody out of ignorance error or malice has broken the law.

Some more than others of course... so the worst of us should be stripped naked flogged and hung up on a cross for the world to watch and mock.


Even for these it is possible to be saved and not condemned since Jesus shed His blood for all.

All who call on the Name of Jesus will be saved.


After that and filled with the Holy spirit... does the idolater continue to ignore God or the thief continue to steal or the rapist continue to r*pe etc etc... No of course not !
They don't, but that's what I have been pointing out. If someone has been born again then they are a new creation and sin has become contrary to them. If we have been given a new heart by the holy spirit then why do we still point ourselves to the law? The law is not made for the righteous person.

The law can only impute sin. If you remove the sacrificial covering we have in Christ then all our personal sin and guilt gets imputed all over again. In no way can the law paint any of us in a favorable light, because one sin is a violation of all of it. It's like failing a test that your life depends on, because you got one question wrong.

That's why we need to look to Christ as our only merit and justification before God. Am I somehow suggesting that sin is ok? Absolutely not, but if someone has become a new creature in Christ then sin should be contrary to them as one who has been recreated after the likeness of Christ in true holiness and righteousness. The law made nothing perfect. We are only perfected in Christ.
 

TokiEl

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They don't, but that's what I have been pointing out. If someone has been born again then they are a new creation and sin has become contrary to them. If we have been given a new heart by the holy spirit then why do we still point ourselves to the law? The law is not made for the righteous person.
Right.

Muslims don't understand this Holy spirit stuff so we ought to choose our words with care or else they might think we are lawless. L0L
 

TokiEl

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Only the spirit of truth can open their eyes. It's sad how deceived this world is.
I was once deceived too... and for some reason God maybe because i was actively pursuing Him and after two decades of hide and seek i finally found Him or He got bored hiding idk L0L
 

Elsbet's Ire

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God forgives since justice is served in Jesus Christ.


Is this a license to sin ? No of course not.

We establish the law !


We are no longer looking at the law and weighing our options and bending here a little and there a little like outlaws.

No we have become walking talking lawmen. L0L
Right.

Everybody out of ignorance error or malice has broken the law.

Some more than others of course... so the worst of us should be stripped naked flogged and hung up on a cross for the world to watch and mock.


Even for these it is possible to be saved and not condemned since Jesus shed His blood for all.

All who call on the Name of Jesus will be saved.


After that and filled with the Holy spirit... does the idolater continue to ignore God or the thief continue to steal or the rapist continue to r*pe etc etc... No of course not !
 

Elsbet's Ire

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Messages
42
His word promises that those who seek him diligently will find him!
I love this one.

I love those who love me,​
and those who seek me diligently​
find me. - Proverbs 8:17
...​
Proverbs 8
The Blessings of Wisdom
Does not wisdom call?​
Does not understanding raise her voice?​
On the heights beside the way,​
at the crossroads she takes her stand;​
beside the gates in front of the town,​
at the entrance of the portals she cries aloud:​
“To you, O men, I call,​
and my cry is to the children of man.​
O simple ones, learn prudence;​
O fools, learn sense.​
Hear, for I will speak noble things,​
and from my lips will come what is right,​
for my mouth will utter truth;​
wickedness is an abomination to my lips.​
All the words of my mouth are righteous;​
there is nothing twisted or crooked in them.​
They are all straight to him who understands,​
and right to those who find knowledge.​
Take my instruction instead of silver,​
and knowledge rather than choice gold,​
for wisdom is better than jewels,​
and all that you may desire cannot compare with her.​
“I, wisdom, dwell with prudence,​
and I find knowledge and discretion.​
The fear of the LORD is hatred of evil.​
Pride and arrogance and the way of evil​
and perverted speech I hate.​
I have counsel and sound wisdom;​
I have insight; I have strength.​
By me kings reign,​
and rulers decree what is just;​
by me princes rule,​
and nobles, all who govern justly.a​
I love those who love me,​
and those who seek me diligently find me.​

Riches and honor are with me,​
enduring wealth and righteousness.​
My fruit is better than gold, even fine gold,​
and my yield than choice silver.​
I walk in the way of righteousness,​
in the paths of justice,​
granting an inheritance to those who love me,​
and filling their treasuries.​
“The LORD possessed me at the beginning of his work,c​
the first of his acts of old.​
Ages ago I was set up,​
at the first, before the beginning of the earth.​

When there were no depths I was brought forth,​
when there were no springs abounding with water.​
Before the mountains had been shaped,​
before the hills, I was brought forth,​
before he had made the earth with its fields,​
or the first of the dust of the world.​
When he established the heavens, I was there;​
when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,​
when he made firm the skies above,​
when he establishedd the fountains of the deep,​
when he assigned to the sea its limit,​
so that the waters might not transgress his command,​
when he marked out the foundations of the earth,​
then I was beside him, like a master workman,​
and I was daily hise delight,​
rejoicing before him always,​
rejoicing in his inhabited world​
and delighting in the children of man.​
“And now, O sons, listen to me:​
blessed are those who keep my ways.​
Hear instruction and be wise,​
and do not neglect it.​
Blessed is the one who listens to me,​
watching daily at my gates,​
waiting beside my doors.​
For whoever finds me finds life​
and obtains favor from the LORD,​
but he who fails to find me injures himself;​
all who hate me love death.”​
...​
 

Lyfe

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Messages
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Allot of Christians still put an emphasis on the need for obedience to God's moral law, but I really believe that any sort of attempt to still bind someone to the commandments is to completely miss the point of the new covenant. Gods intent through Christ was to create new men(entirely) by regenerating their heart and putting his spirit within them. The law and commandments made nothing perfect and God's intent was to perfect man through Christ. The ministration of the law and commandments calls for an external adherence to a set of rules when the ministration of the holy spirit brings internal transformation. We actually resemble Christ the most when we are just filled with and FULL of the holy spirit (who is the spirit of Christ). If we only came out of the world and stopped quenching him and sought to renew ourselves(spiritually) through God's word then the fruit of the spirit would just begin to bud and sprout up naturally. It's impossible to be governed by the flesh when you are filled with the spirit of God, because your thoughts then become governed by the mind of Christ and the things of God. The focus and emphasis should not be about the need to submit to rules and commandments, but rather just being filled with and led by the holy spirit. Following rules is not the same thing as being FILLED with the holy spirit.

for we [who are born-again have been reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, set apart for His purpose and] are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory and take pride and exult in Christ Jesus and place no confidence [in what we have or who we are] in the flesh— Philipians 3:3 Amplified Bible

Are you so foolish and senseless? Having begun [your new life by faith] with the Spirit, are you now being perfected and reaching spiritual maturity by the flesh [that is, by your own works and efforts to keep the Law]? Galatians 3:3 Amplified Bible

Do not get drunk with wine, for that is wickedness (corruption, stupidity), but be filled with the [Holy] Spirit and constantly guided by Him. Ephesians 5:18 Amplified Bible

But if you are guided and led by the Spirit, you are not subject to the Law. Galatians 5:18 Amplified Bible

Galatians 5:22-23
Amplified Bible
22 But the fruit of the Spirit [the result of His presence within us] is love [unselfish concern for others], joy, [inner] peace, patience [not the ability to wait, but how we act while waiting], kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Screenshot_20230208-165130.png
 

TokiEl

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Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
7,239
But if you are guided and led by the Spirit, you are not subject to the Law. Galatians 5:18 Amplified Bible

Galatians 5:22-23
Amplified Bible
22 But the fruit of the Spirit [the result of His presence within us] is love [unselfish concern for others], joy, [inner] peace, patience [not the ability to wait, but how we act while waiting], kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.
The verse above state that Spirit filled believers in Jesus Christ are Christlike.

Jesus surpassed the letter of the law and so will we if we are Spirit filled believers in Him.

We will exhibit love joy peace sobriety selfcontrol etc etc... and so we establish the spirit of the law.


When the letter of the law says do not adulterate... the spirit of the law says do not even look at a woman with lust.

When the letter of the law says do not murder... Jesus and His saints say do not even be angry without a cause.


Spirit filled believers are surpassing the law every day and twice on sundays. L0L
 
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Lyfe

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Messages
3,639
The verse above state that Spirit filled believers in Jesus Christ are Christlike.

Jesus surpassed the letter of the law and so will we if we are Spirit filled believers in Him.

We will exhibit love joy peace sobriety selfcontrol etc etc... and so we establish the spirit of the law.


When the letter of the law says do not adulterate... the spirit of the law says do not even look at a woman with lust.

When the letter of the law says do not murder... Jesus and His saints say do not even be angry without a cause.


Spirit filled believers are surpassing the law every day and twice on sundays. L0L
The way I see it is that the ministration of the holy spirit is the reality and fulfillment that the ministration of the law always foreshadowed. Now that we have the reality we don't have to point backwards to the shadow. I see allot of well intended Christians do that. We have our teacher and we have the holy spirit. God has made us into new men after his likeness in true righteousness and holiness. We have the fulfilment of the old testament shadows all within the new covenant.

If the spirit of God is inside you then you are the true circumcision, my friend. ❤

Embrace and thank The Father that he has given you the power and unction to live as a true son of God. Thank him that he has called you to newness of life and to serve in the NEW way of the spirit. Thank him that he has enabled you to be a partaker of the divine nature! You have been reborn from above and are born of God!
 

Wigi

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Joined
Aug 24, 2017
Messages
891
Allot of Christians still put an emphasis on the need for obedience to God's moral law, but I really believe that any sort of attempt to still bind someone to the commandments is to completely miss the point of the new covenant. Gods intent through Christ was to create new men(entirely) by regenerating their heart and putting his spirit within them. The law and commandments made nothing perfect and God's intent was to perfect man through Christ. The ministration of the law and commandments calls for an external adherence to a set of rules when the ministration of the holy spirit brings internal transformation. We actually resemble Christ the most when we are just filled with and FULL of the holy spirit (who is the spirit of Christ). If we only came out of the world and stopped quenching him and sought to renew ourselves(spiritually) through God's word then the fruit of the spirit would just begin to bud and sprout up naturally. It's impossible to be governed by the flesh when you are filled with the spirit of God, because your thoughts then become governed by the mind of Christ and the things of God. The focus and emphasis should not be about the need to submit to rules and commandments, but rather just being filled with and led by the holy spirit. Following rules is not the same thing as being FILLED with the holy spirit.

for we [who are born-again have been reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, set apart for His purpose and] are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory and take pride and exult in Christ Jesus and place no confidence [in what we have or who we are] in the flesh— Philipians 3:3 Amplified Bible

Are you so foolish and senseless? Having begun [your new life by faith] with the Spirit, are you now being perfected and reaching spiritual maturity by the flesh [that is, by your own works and efforts to keep the Law]? Galatians 3:3 Amplified Bible

Do not get drunk with wine, for that is wickedness (corruption, stupidity), but be filled with the [Holy] Spirit and constantly guided by Him. Ephesians 5:18 Amplified Bible

But if you are guided and led by the Spirit, you are not subject to the Law. Galatians 5:18 Amplified Bible

Galatians 5:22-23
Amplified Bible
22 But the fruit of the Spirit [the result of His presence within us] is love [unselfish concern for others], joy, [inner] peace, patience [not the ability to wait, but how we act while waiting], kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such things there is no law.

View attachment 84755
It is true that we often have this legalistic temptation crawling at our doors telling our egos we don't need to rely on the Holy Spirit and we can better ourselves.
The flesh is such a wild animal to tame, it's necessary to always return to the gospel else we might succumb to this temptation to go after the letter of the law with this ugly self-righteous arrogance where we start to worship the Law more than the Law-giver who said He has mercy.

But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.
Matthew 12:7

At the very beginning of my spiritual journey I really was wrestling with this thought that I was never going to be able to concentrate enough will power to keep God's commandments at all time. Once I understood it is not the burden Jesus told me to keep and that I just had to deny the self and welcome the works of the Holy Spirit in me it felt great because I could finally put down the heaviest burden in the entire universe, to reconcile myself with God in spite of what I am.

2 Corinthians 3 always comes to mind when I start to forget what this New Covenant is about. A big mistake to do, it's I think when we start to believe we no longer need to read the scriptures because we assume we have it all figured out and have nothing left to learn. That's where we become un-teachable while our faith is going colder and colder which means we're increasingly vulnerable to the flesh and all its temptations.
Faith grows and stays warm as long as we stay in touch with the scriptures, the Holy Spirit enlighten and clean us inside when we meditate the scriptures.
 

phipps

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Messages
4,900
Obeying God is in our best interest. It's in the Bible. Deuteronomy 30:15-16, says, "See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess."

Deuteronomy 10:12-13 says, "And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, and to keep the commandments of the Lord and His statutes which I command you today for your good?"

What do law, grace, and obedience have to do with each other? It's in the Bible. Romans 5:20 says, "Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more."

Obedience can keep us from disease. It's in the Bible, Exodus 15:26, "If you diligently heed the voice of the Lord your God and do what is right in His sight, give ear to His commandments and keep all His statutes, I will put none of the diseases on you which I have brought on the Egyptians. For I am the Lord who heals you.”

Obedience is the key to a successful life. It's in the Bible, Joshua 1:8, "This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success."

We will be evaluated in terms of our obedience to God's commandments. It's in the Bible, Matthew 5:19, "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

Obedience is a result of loving God. It's in the Bible, John 14:15, 23, “If you love Me, keep My commandments; …“If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

The Holy Spirit will only be given to those who obey the Lord. It's in the Bible, Acts 5:32, "And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

Jesus obeyed His Father, as an example of how we should obey Him. It's in the Bible, Hebrews 5:8-9, "though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him."

God advises us to obey the laws of the land. It's in the Bible, Romans 13:1-2, "Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves."

Sometimes obedience to God and His law may require disobedience of earthly powers. It's in the Bible, Acts 5:29, "But Peter and the other apostles answered and said: “We ought to obey God rather than men."

Children are to obey and honour their parents. It's in the Bible, Ephesians 6:1-3, "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.”

Obedience starts in the mind. It involves the delicate process of mentally accepting the responsibility of carrying out commands from God. Obedience stems from a relationship with God and the willingness to obey Him. Our obedience is a voluntary, loving action that moulds our behaviour to moral obligations. Obedience to God must be as specific as He directs, and not only as we think or desire it should be.

May we get to know Jesus and develop a love relationship with Him so that obedience to Him is natural to us just like it was to Jesus.
 

phipps

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But God isn’t particular about obedience on every detail, is He?

“Surely none of the men who came up from Egypt ... shall see the land ... because they have not wholly followed Me, except Caleb ... and Joshua ... for they have wholly followed the LORD” (Numbers 32:11,12).

“Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God”
(Matthew 4:4).

“You are My friends if you do whatever I command you” (John 15:14).

Indeed—He is particular. God’s people in Old Testament times learned this the hard way. Those who left Egypt for the Promised Land were a multitude in number. Of this group, only two, Caleb and Joshua, fully followed the Lord, and they alone entered Canaan. The others died in the wilderness. Jesus said we are to live by “every word” of the Bible. There is not one commandment too many or one commandment too few. They are all important!

But isn’t complete obedience an impossibility for a human being?

“With God all things are possible” (Matthew 19:26).

“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” (Philippians 4:13).

“Thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ” (2 Corinthians 2:14).

“He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing” (John 15:5).

“If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat the good of the land” (Isaiah 1:19).

None of us can obey in our own power, but through Christ we can and must. Satan, in order to make God’s requests appear unreasonable, invented the falsehood that obedience is impossible.
 

Lyfe

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It is true that we often have this legalistic temptation crawling at our doors telling our egos we don't need to rely on the Holy Spirit and we can better ourselves.
The flesh is such a wild animal to tame, it's necessary to always return to the gospel else we might succumb to this temptation to go after the letter of the law with this ugly self-righteous arrogance where we start to worship the Law more than the Law-giver who said He has mercy.

But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless.
Matthew 12:7

At the very beginning of my spiritual journey I really was wrestling with this thought that I was never going to be able to concentrate enough will power to keep God's commandments at all time. Once I understood it is not the burden Jesus told me to keep and that I just had to deny the self and welcome the works of the Holy Spirit in me it felt great because I could finally put down the heaviest burden in the entire universe, to reconcile myself with God in spite of what I am.

2 Corinthians 3 always comes to mind when I start to forget what this New Covenant is about. A big mistake to do, it's I think when we start to believe we no longer need to read the scriptures because we assume we have it all figured out and have nothing left to learn. That's where we become un-teachable while our faith is going colder and colder which means we're increasingly vulnerable to the flesh and all its temptations.
Faith grows and stays warm as long as we stay in touch with the scriptures, the Holy Spirit enlighten and clean us inside when we meditate the scriptures.
It was about a year ago when The Father began to emphasize to me these three things.

1) Come out of the world to stop quenching the holy spirit.
2) Allow my word to renew you. The word is really manna from heaven that was given for our sustenance. It's more than just a book of information. Jesus words are spirit and life, God's word is living and active. They are seeds to generate fruit.
3) Seek me daily through prayer and communion. Also, praying in the spirit helps me allot, but even when I didn't God was still working through my prayers.

If you do only these 3 things the holy spirit will really begin to flow through you and bear fruit. It's natural and as I said earlier we resemble Christ the most when we are just filled with and FULL of the holy spirit. The law doesn't have the power to do this and it's God's intent that we resemble Christ on earth. There shouldn't be much striving if a child of God is doing those three things. The ministry of the holy spirit will just lead you and you begin to walk and think as Christ as a result of the spirit of Christ inside you. That's how we avoid legalism when all we do is just natural and from the spirit.
 

The Sojourner

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I think this could fit here.


I was once attracted to law keeping, like I had to earn my salvation. That's a lie from the pit of hell. We can't earn salvation. Plus, that's the world's way. Earn your position, achieve until you pass out or die, etc. Please get off the performance treadmill. "You can't win, child."
Its good to be attracted to Law keeping.
Keeping The Law, I.e. not breaking the Commandments, is just the right way to live.
The Bible says that is the BASIC DUTY of mankind.
Don't commit Adultery.
Don't murder.
Don't steal.
Etc.

So it's good to be attracted to that, I.e. not wanting to break the Commandments.

That's a sign that you have awareness of the Holy Spirit working in you and nudging you to change yourself, for the better.
 

The Sojourner

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In order to acctually keep the law you have to observe it perfectly. If you violate only one precept then you are lawbreaker.
Keeping the Commandments / living by The Law leads to Blessings.
Breaking them leads to sufferings, misery and ruin.

We all know that Christ said in the Sermon on the Mount (in Matthew 5) that we are to both do and teach the keeping of The Commandments.

He also said that those who break them and teach the breaking of the Law to others (same as teaching others that they no longer have to keep it) will be called the least (lowest of the low) in the Kingdom of heaven.
"Whoever shall do and teach them..."
Keeping the Commandments is the basics, of what Christ taught.

How can Christians claim to be followers of Jesus, yet say otherwise?
It doesn't make sense.
The apostles never said its OK to break the Commandments.
Not one of them said that, ever.
 
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The Sojourner

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They don't, but that's what I have been pointing out. If someone has been born again then they are a new creation and sin has become contrary to them. If we have been given a new heart by the holy spirit then why do we still point ourselves to the law? The law is not made for the righteous person.

The law can only impute sin. If you remove the sacrificial covering we have in Christ then all our personal sin and guilt gets imputed all over again. In no way can the law paint any of us in a favorable light, because one sin is a violation of all of it. It's like failing a test that your life depends on, because you got one question wrong.

That's why we need to look to Christ as our only merit and justification before God. Am I somehow suggesting that sin is ok? Absolutely not, but if someone has become a new creature in Christ then sin should be contrary to them as one who has been recreated after the likeness of Christ in true holiness and righteousness. The law made nothing perfect. We are only perfected in Christ.
We still point ourselves to The Law, because we can (and should) be checking up on ourselves in order to make sure that we are continuing to live the right way as we go onwards. We are supposed to know The Law by heart and mind. The Bible says in Psalms and other places that the righteous LOVE The Law and to meditate in it.

If we cast it aside then we cast aside Wisdom and the Guidance found in it. So, it's good to keep pointing to it as the basis for living a Godly life and also to help keep yourself in check, so that you don't suffer from self deception over time. It contains all the basics of do's and don'ts that we need. It helps us check if what is in our hearts is right and pleasing to God, or not.

The Bible says that the righteous LOVE The Law and to meditate in it.
That right there, is a check all in itself.

Also, if you don't keep The Commandments and are breaking them...
Then you do NOT love your neighbour.
Keeping the Commandments is HOW you love your neighbour.
There is no other way.
 
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Lyfe

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Messages
3,639
We are called to serve in the freedom and new way of the holy spirit. Everyone knows or has a sense of right from wrong. It's the holy spirit who we receive through entering into the new covenant that Christ came to establish that gives us a new heart. We can keep the letter of the law, but if our hearts haven't been changed by the power of God then it's vain.

I knew right from wrong before I came to Christ, but what Christ did was give me his mind and put a heart of flesh within me. God is more interested in creating new men made after his likeness then he is yoking someone to a set of rules and regulations they inwardly loathe keeping due to their flesh.
 
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