why Christians reject Roman Catholic church

[A Freeman]

Ok, so according to the precedence that you just set I would like to ask you a few questions.

1) Do you keep The Law?

Shouldn't you be concerned with whether YOU are keeping The Law as Christ COMMANDED we do?

Remember that trying is not good enough. You must do. You don't determine if you are keeping The Law, The Law does and without partiality.

Agreed. All the more reason to be striving with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength to learn from and work WITH God to keep His Perfect Law, given to us for our own individual and collective benefit, wouldn't you agree?

2) If you aren't keeping The Law then what is your excuse?

Shouldn't you be asking yourself that very question?

3) If your not keeping The Law then what will happen to you?

Haven't we already been told what will happen to all unrepentant sinners/law-breakers (incorrigible criminals) on Judgment Day, when Christ will judge us all according to our works?

Revelation 20:12-15
20:12 And I saw the "Dead", small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another Book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life: and the "Dead" were judged out of those things which were written in the Books, according to their works.
20:13 And the "sea" gave up the "Dead" which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their WORKS.
20:14 And death and hell were cast into the "Lake of Fire". This is the second death.
20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the "Lake of Fire".

Revelation 21:7-8
21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be My (adopted) son.
21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with Fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

 

[free2018]

The Bible clearly teaches that Adam was the first man. 1 Corinthians 15:45

God is not an author of confusion.
Please read Genesis one again.


The people were called Adam as well.

And there was a man called Adam.



Adam’s line was important because the 12 tribes descended from Adam and Jesus descended from Adam.

The book is a pretty clear book brother.

I don’t need to add anything to the Book.

 

[Lyfe]

Shouldn't you be concerned with whether YOU are keeping The Law as Christ COMMANDED we do?


Agreed. All the more reason to be striving with all of your heart, soul, mind and strength to learn from and work WITH God to keep His Perfect Law, given to us for our own individual and collective benefit, wouldn't you agree?


Shouldn't you be asking yourself that very question?


Haven't we already been told what will happen to all unrepentant sinners/law-breakers (incorrigible criminals) on Judgment Day, when Christ will judge us all according to our works?

Revelation 20:12-15
20:12 And I saw the "Dead", small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another Book was opened, which is [the Book] of Life: and the "Dead" were judged out of those things which were written in the Books, according to their works.
20:13 And the "sea" gave up the "Dead" which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their WORKS.
20:14 And death and hell were cast into the "Lake of Fire". This is the second death.
20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the "Lake of Fire".

Revelation 21:7-8
21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be My (adopted) son.
21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and ALL LIARS, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with Fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

No, I don't think I have ever kept God's law a day in my life. If sin is transgression from The Law then there hasn't been a single day where I have gone without sin. If by one sin I break the whole law(according to James) then it's only fair to conclude that I don't even come close to keeping it. Imagine getting 99 out of a 100 questions right on a test and then getting an F and then to top it off your not even allowed acceptance into a certain college, because your score wasn't perfect. One sin was enough for Adam and Eve to be expelled. One sin was enough to bring condemnation, death, and judgment. This is why The Law works wrath, because it always demands perfect justice no matter how seemingly minor the sin. No matter how minimal the sin.

You won't even answer me, because you break God's law. This means your in big trouble according to your own beliefs about salvation.

 

[A Freeman]

As the RCC has promoted the false doctrine that we allegedly no longer need to keep The Law that God gave us to save us based upon their errant interpretations of the letters of Paul -- a practice adopted by all of the Protestant denominations -- perhaps a logical analogy would help others understand the terrain where we presently find ourselves deployed.

A man was indebted well beyond his means, from a series of very poor decisions and being unwilling to properly manage his own personal affairs. As a result, that man was facing certain bondage that would eventually and inevitably lead to his death.

A good friend redeemed the man/debtor on his behalf, paying a terrible price for that debt.

The man/debtor asked his good friend if there was anything he could ever do to show his gratitude for what his good friend had done.

His good friend replied that he could best show his gratitude by making better decisions and properly manage his own, personal affairs, to avoid ever finding himself in that situation again, so that he could "pay it forward". That would, of course, be best for all involved, by preventing others from being unjustly punished by someone running up a debt they couldn't pay (in effect stealing from others).

It should be obvious that if the same man ran up yet another insurmountable debt after that, hoping he could take advantage of his good friend to pay off his debt for a second time, it would prove that he wasn't grateful at all, and was either incapable or unwilling to learn from his mistakes.

This is exactly what Scripture teaches us about sin (debt). The whole of The Law is based upon one universal principle: DON'T STEAL FROM OTHERS.

When someone commits adultery, they steal another man's wife.
When someone murders another, they unlawfully take the life of another.
When someone is wasteful, they steal precious resources from others.
When someone pollutes or destroys the environment, they steal its pristine nature from future generations.
When someone doesn't follow the Perfect Diet, they are helping to destroy our natural environment.
When someone takes another man's possessions without their permission, they are obviously stealing.
When someone rapes a woman or molests a child, they steal their innocence from them.

The list goes on and on for every single Commandment given to us in The Law, about relationships, about dealing with others justly and fairly, about the administration of justice, about the treatment of strangers, and about every other conceivable set of circumstances we might encounter during life here on planet Earth.

Unless someone foolishly believes we are all incurable kleptomaniacs, incapable of coveting and stealing from others, then it ought to become obvious why Christ teaches us that The Law will NEVER pass away, i.e. theft will NEVER be lawful in ANY form, regardless of whether men temporarily "legalize" theft, e.g. in the form of "offerings" given to church and taxes/tributes given to state, which are two heads of the same beast that is devouring men.

 

[monkeylove]

Its not so much that some of the catholic doctrines are not found in the Bible (although they are not, such as infact baptism as opposed to believer baptism, or a pope, or priests in the new testament, etc), as that some of the catholic doctrines directly contradict the Bible.

It can't be simultaneously one mediator between man and God, the man Christ Jesus AND having Jesus's mother be a mediatrix.

LOL. Where did you get the idea that the Bible itself doesn't contain contradictions? Divorce, no divorce? Slavery, no slavery?

The Church is based on Tradition and Scriptures. Why the former? Because it's what led to the formation of the latter!

Jesus is not a mediator. The Blessed Virgin Mary is. Get it right.

 

[monkeylove]

The basic premise being used here -- that God is somehow powerless against puny humans to preserve His Word -- is flawed.

Throughout Scripture, God has used Israel's enemies to punish Israel and to further His Perfect Plan. Nebuchadnezzar was humbled and used to promote God's Law throughout Babylon, which was the sole super-power at that time. Cyrus and the Medo-Persian Empire came next and did the same, followed by Alexander the Great and the Greek Empire, leading up to the Roman Empire, who built roads all over the world to facilitate the movement of people, supplies and information (including Scripture) all over the world.

The Greek Septuagint was completed hundreds of years before the birth of Jesus, as is recorded in the Letter of Aristeas. Jesus and His Disciples could only use and teach from the Old Covenant, as the Gospel accounts and the subsequent letters of Paul, Peter and John and the others (who are often attributed to Paul, e.g. Stephanas, Fortunatus, Achaicus, Timotheus Tychicus, Titus, Lucas, etc.), had not yet been written. So there were already "canonized" books of the Old Covenant long before the Romans were involved.

The Romans, who are the direct descendants of the Babylonians, were used by God to spread His Word. Unfortunately, and unsurprisingly, the Romans invented yet another organized religion, and called it "Christianity", just as their descendants the Babylonians had done with Talmudic Judaism, by taking bits of their pagan Babylonian religious superstitions and traditions, and mixing them into the Word of God and causing centuries of confusion.

That's why the Scripture itself tells us that the true Biblical Message/Meaning has been sealed up until the end of time, awaiting the ONE Who can break the seals and properly explain it to those who still have love for the Truth (see Dan. 12:1-4 and Rev. 5:1-5).

IF the Roman Catholic church actually understood the true meaning of Scripture, and that it repeatedly condemns them, their priests and their anti-Biblical doctrines, rites, rituals, traditions and superstitions, they would have tried to alter the text to better hide their criminal enterprise. That is why the prophecies in the Bible are written in "code".

The Prophecies are written in code for two good reasons:-

1. They were not meant to be understood at the wrong time, i.e. the majority were not meant to be understood by the people of the time when they were written. They were meant for the future, sometimes a few, sometimes hundreds and sometimes thousands of years in the future. The last ones are still being fulfilled, today.

2. The Prophecies warn of what is going to happen to the rich rulers of the Earth, and the Churches, who have worked with the rich to keep the masses in the dark; down and poor, by helping the rich to hide God's PERFECT Laws and substitute the rich people's oppressive and illegal laws.

The rich rulers set the curriculum in their schools and control all knowledge given to the people so that they can control their minds and enslave them. If they could understand what the Bible says about them and how evil they are, they would have destroyed the Bible.

What people need to do is come out of their respective organized religions -- ALL of them (including the "mother church") -- and start DOING what God COMMANDS us to do in HIS Scripture, for our own individual and collective benefit. The Law, with its perfect statutes, judgments, agricultural and economic policies, and the perfect healthy diet, etc. is written plainly, so that everyone can understand what is right and wrong.

The path to true spiritual enlightenment is found only in the keeping of God's Law, exactly as Christ teaches.

The basic premise is that Biblical Christianity is "true" Christianity because it's wholly based on the Bible. The problem is that it criticizes the Catholic Church which selected the books that would make up the Bible!

Jesus DID NOT only teach from the OT he also went beyond it. You're obviously a know-nothing concerning the NT.

The Romans did not invent Christianity. Rather, there were several Churches that settled on doctrines, which included selecting the books that would make up the Bible. LOL.

That's why Church teaching is based on Tradition and Scripturte, especially given the fact that the first is what led to selection of books that would make up the second.

 

[A Freeman]

No, I don't think I have ever kept God's law a day in my life. If sin is transgression from The Law then there hasn't been a single day where I have gone without sin.

There is no "if" regarding sin being the transgression (breaking) of The Law.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also The Law: for sin is the transgression of The Law.

How can someone who claims to know Christ and claims to be reborn again from above, willfully continue in sin?

1 John 3:6-8
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he (Christ) is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the Beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 2:3-4
2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep His Commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth NOT His Commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth is NOT in him.

If by one sin I break the whole law(according to James) then it's only fair to conclude that I don't even come close to keeping it.

Don't most "Christians" today believe they are "good people" because they put money in the offering plate during that one hour a week they attend church (to be seen by others), and perhaps haven't knowingly committed adultery or knowingly murdered anyone? The reason The Law was given to us is to ensure we don't steal from one another, and/or steal from God. Every single sin represents a theft in one form or another, which is why we should all be mindful of what we're doing at all times, particularly to one another, and in humility start believing God is right and has a purpose for giving us His Law. How could any of us otherwise joyfully submit to doing His Will on Earth, as it is done in Heaven, exactly as Jesus COMMANDED us to do (Matt. 6:9-13)?

Imagine getting 99 out of a 100 questions right on a test and then getting an F and then to top it off your not even allowed acceptance into a certain college, because your score wasn't perfect.

Why do you imagine hypothetical scenarios that recreate Father (God) into some unreasonable tyrant?

Genesis 6:5 And "I AM" saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.

Father (God) is the Most Merciful, Most Gracious, Most Kind, Most Loving and Most Patient Spiritual-Being ever. All Father is patiently awaiting is for us to spiritually awaken, come to our senses, and REPENT at this late-hour, so that He can pardon us for everything we've done wrong for the past 6000 years.

Hebrews 10:26-29
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the Knowledge of The Truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of Judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' Law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of The Covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

There is no other way to truly accept the sacrifice Christ made than by keeping The Law/Commandments of God.

John 14:21-24
14:21 He that hath my COMMANDments, and KEEPETH them, HE it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
14:22 Jude saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will obey my words: and my Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
14:24 He that loveth me not obeyeth not my sayings: and the Truth which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

One sin was enough for Adam and Eve to be expelled.

Adam and Eve were being taught by God how to be good (Gen. 1:26). Do you really believe God is some merciless tyrant who unfairly expects everyone to understand everything immediately? What would be the point of teaching us anything if that were the case?

One sin was enough to bring condemnation, death, and judgment.

Which should provide everyone with additional incentive to strive to be perfect, even as our Father in heaven IS perfect (Matt. 5:48).

This is why The Law works wrath, because it always demands perfect justice no matter how seemingly minor the sin. No matter how minimal the sin.

The Law is LOVE, not wrath, so you have it exactly backwards again, as usual. God's wrath is upon those who do not keep The Law.

Colossians 3:4-10
3:4 When Christ, [who is] our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the Earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil lust, and covetousness, which (covetousness) is idolatry:
3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
3:10 And have put on the new [Man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created him:

There is no other way to love one another other than by keeping The Law.

Romans 13:8-10
13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled The Law.
13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not murder, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness (lie), Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as [or more than] thyself.
13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of The Law.

You won't even answer me, because you break God's law. This means your in big trouble according to your own beliefs about salvation.

How would YOU know what another is doing? It perhaps shouldn't be surprising that you judge others against Christ's Command not to judge (Matt. 7:1-4) given that you arrogantly feel you're in a position to judge God's Law.

Striving to keep Father's Law as perfectly as possible has been more rewarding than anything that has ever been personally experienced. Father has provided amazing insights, lessons and tests along The Way, which provide a much deeper appreciation for why The Law was written a specific way, and how it benefits everyone.

The more one learns from The Law, the more application for it can be seen in our daily lives, both at a personal level as well as at a societal/national level. And of course those experiences drive an even deeper love for others, and a longing to share those daily miracles and happenings so that everyone can find out for themselves how amazing it is to draw closer to Father.

The closer we draw to Father (through obedience, self-sacrifice and discipline), the closer Father draws to us, making the entire process so desirable that each iteration makes it that much easier not only to keep The Law, but to see where there is room for improvement.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

The basic premise is that Biblical Christianity is "true" Christianity because it's wholly based on the Bible. The problem is that it criticizes the Catholic Church which selected the books that would make up the Bible!

Jesus DID NOT only teach from the OT he also went beyond it. You're obviously a know-nothing concerning the NT.

The Romans did not invent Christianity. Rather, there were several Churches that settled on doctrines, which included selecting the books that would make up the Bible. LOL.

That's why Church teaching is based on Tradition and Scripturte, especially given the fact that the first is what led to selection of books that would make up the second.

What do you make of traditions that entirely negate or contradict the message of the Bible? If your analysis was right, cutely the Bible as canonised should be supportive of Catholic doctrine?

 

[A Freeman]

LOL. Where did you get the idea that the Bible itself doesn't contain contradictions? Divorce, no divorce? Slavery, no slavery?

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the Sixth Day.

The Church is based on Tradition and Scriptures. Why the former? Because it's what led to the formation of the latter!

Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the COMMANDment of God by your Tradition?

Jesus is not a mediator. The Blessed Virgin Mary is. Get it right.

1 Timothy 2:5 For [there is] ONE God, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the Man Jesus Christ;

The basic premise is that Biblical Christianity is "true" Christianity because it's wholly based on the Bible. The problem is that it criticizes the Catholic Church which selected the books that would make up the Bible!

2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of The Destroyer (Lucifer - Satan);
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in The Temple of God, showing himself that he is God (the Holy Father).
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery (Rev. 17:5) of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the [Sword of the] Spirit from his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness [of the enlightening] of his coming:
2:9 [Even the Wicked], whose coming is the work of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of The Truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not The Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Jesus DID NOT only teach from the OT he also went beyond it. You're obviously a know-nothing concerning the NT.

Matthew 5:17-20
5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy The Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill [fully preach The Law (The Torah) and fulfill the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah].
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from The Law, till all be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least COMMANDments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in The Kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in The Kingdom of heaven.
5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED [the righteousness] of the lawyers and politicians, ye shall in no case enter into The Kingdom of heaven.

The Romans did not invent Christianity. Rather, there were several Churches that settled on doctrines, which included selecting the books that would make up the Bible. LOL.

Revelation 17
17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come here; I will show unto thee the Judgment of the great "Whore" that sitteth upon many "waters":
17:2 With whom the kings of the Earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the Earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
17:4 And the woman was arrayed in PURPLE (bishops) and SCARLET (cardinals) colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY (2 Thess. 2:7), BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS (her daughters) AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of her saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
17:7 And the angel said unto me, Why didst thou marvel? (Stop it!) I will tell thee the MYSTERY of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the Bottomless Pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the Earth shall wonder, whose names were NOT written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
17:9 And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth (Rome).
17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even it is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
17:14 These shall make war against the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.
17:15 And he saith unto me, The "waters" which thou sawest, where the "Whore" sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the "Whore", and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill His Will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great CITY, which reigneth over the kings of the Earth (Rome).

That's why Church teaching is based on Tradition and Scripturte, especially given the fact that the first is what led to selection of books that would make up the second.

Proverbs 21:1-2
21:1 The king's heart [is] in the hand of the "I AM", [as] the rivers of water: He turneth it wheresoever He will.
21:2 Every way of a man [is] right in his own eyes: but the "I AM" pondereth the hearts.

 

[Lurking009]

Come on man there are two creation stories in the Bible- chapter 1 and then 2. With that "Adam" has always known to be conceptual, an idea, allegory. It's written Jesus said our faith should be like a child, not of a child lol. Fundamentalists and Salafi are at the lowest rung of understanding- something you should strive to grow out of.

You'll have to explain that to the authors of the New Testament since they refer to and support an actual physical Adam and not a parable -

1Tim 2:13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being quite deceived, fell into transgression.

1 Cor 15:45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”, the last Adam, a life –giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.

Rom 5:19 For as through the one man’s disobedience the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous.

If Adam wasn't an actual man, then neither was Moses -

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the violation committed by Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

If Adam wasn't an actual man, then neither were all these men -

Luke 3:23 When He began His ministry, Jesus Himself was about thirty years old, being, as was commonly held, the son of Joseph, the son of Eli, 24 the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, 25 the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Hesli, the son of Naggai, 26 the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, 27 the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, 28 the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, 29 the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, 30 the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, 31 the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, 32 the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Salmon, the son of Nahshon, 33 the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Ram, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, 34 the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, 35 the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Heber, the son of Shelah, 36 the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, 37 the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, 38 the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God.

I guess they were just too 'fundamental' and ignorant to comprehend what you claim is merely an intellectual concept, eh?

 

[Lyfe]

There is no "if" regarding sin being the transgression (breaking) of The Law.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also The Law: for sin is the transgression of The Law.

How can someone who claims to know Christ and claims to be reborn again from above, willfully continue in sin?

1 John 3:6-8
3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he (Christ) is righteous.
3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the Beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 2:3-4
2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep His Commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth NOT His Commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth is NOT in him.


Don't most "Christians" today believe they are "good people" because they put money in the offering plate during that one hour a week they attend church (to be seen by others), and perhaps haven't knowingly committed adultery or knowingly murdered anyone? The reason The Law was given to us is to ensure we don't steal from one another, and/or steal from God. Every single sin represents a theft in one form or another, which is why we should all be mindful of what we're doing at all times, particularly to one another, and in humility start believing God is right and has a purpose for giving us His Law. How could any of us otherwise joyfully submit to doing His Will on Earth, as it is done in Heaven, exactly as Jesus COMMANDED us to do (Matt. 6:9-13)?


Why do you imagine hypothetical scenarios that recreate Father (God) into some unreasonable tyrant?

Genesis 6:5 And "I AM" saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.

Father (God) is the Most Merciful, Most Gracious, Most Kind, Most Loving and Most Patient Spiritual-Being ever. All Father is patiently awaiting is for us to spiritually awaken, come to our senses, and REPENT at this late-hour, so that He can pardon us for everything we've done wrong for the past 6000 years.

Hebrews 10:26-29
10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the Knowledge of The Truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of Judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
10:28 He that despised Moses' Law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of The Covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

There is no other way to truly accept the sacrifice Christ made than by keeping The Law/Commandments of God.

John 14:21-24
14:21 He that hath my COMMANDments, and KEEPETH them, HE it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
14:22 Jude saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will obey my words: and my Father will love him, and We will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
14:24 He that loveth me not obeyeth not my sayings: and the Truth which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.


Adam and Eve were being taught by God how to be good (Gen. 1:26). Do you really believe God is some merciless tyrant who unfairly expects everyone to understand everything immediately? What would be the point of teaching us anything if that were the case?


Which should provide everyone with additional incentive to strive to be perfect, even as our Father in heaven IS perfect (Matt. 5:48).


The Law is LOVE, not wrath, so you have it exactly backwards again, as usual. God's wrath is upon those who do not keep The Law.

Colossians 3:4-10
3:4 When Christ, [who is] our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the Earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil lust, and covetousness, which (covetousness) is idolatry:
3:6 For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
3:7 In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them.
3:8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
3:9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
3:10 And have put on the new [Man], which is renewed in knowledge after the image of Him that created him:

There is no other way to love one another other than by keeping The Law.

Romans 13:8-10
13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled The Law.
13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not murder, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness (lie), Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as [or more than] thyself.
13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of The Law.


How would YOU know what another is doing? It perhaps shouldn't be surprising that you judge others against Christ's Command not to judge (Matt. 7:1-4) given that you arrogantly feel you're in a position to judge God's Law.

Striving to keep Father's Law as perfectly as possible has been more rewarding than anything that has ever been personally experienced. Father has provided amazing insights, lessons and tests along The Way, which provide a much deeper appreciation for why The Law was written a specific way, and how it benefits everyone.

The more one learns from The Law, the more application for it can be seen in our daily lives, both at a personal level as well as at a societal/national level. And of course those experiences drive an even deeper love for others, and a longing to share those daily miracles and happenings so that everyone can find out for themselves how amazing it is to draw closer to Father.

The closer we draw to Father (through obedience, self-sacrifice and discipline), the closer Father draws to us, making the entire process so desirable that each iteration makes it that much easier not only to keep The Law, but to see where there is room for improvement.

I don't think you have ever fairly judged yourself by the same standards you are trying to impose on others. If you don't keep the whole law then you can't claim to know Christ. Those are basically your words. If you don't keep the whole law then you are a lawbreaker.

 

[Lurking009]

Simple facts and just a few of the RCC vs. Bible contradictions, continued -

> RCC: Claims their contradictory tradition is equal to scripture

RCC Catechism 81 "Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."
"And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching." 82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."

> BIBLE: Claims contradictory tradition is worthless and a deception

Col 3:20-23 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” [which all refer to things destined to perish with the using] - in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgences.

Jer 9:25 Hear what the Lord says to you, O house of Israel. 2 This is what the Lord says: “Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. 5 Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. “

Heb 13:7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. 9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel – 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, no now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

1 Tim 6:3 If anyone advocates a different doctrine, and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, 5 and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.

Acts 5:29 “We must obey God rather than men.”

_________________________

RCC Catechism from the official Vatican website: https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

 

[A Freeman]

I don't think you have ever fairly judged yourself by the same standards you are trying to impose on others.

It isn't me imposing any standard on anyone @Lyfe; all that is personally done is to share the standard that Father and His Christ have repeatedly told us for thousands of years will be used to judge each of us. I will have to stand judgment before Christ too on Judgment Day, same as everyone else.

If you don't keep the whole law then you can't claim to know Christ.

Agreed.

Those are basically your words. If you don't keep the whole law then you are a lawbreaker.

Again, they're not my words. They are there in Scripture for everyone to either read and believe or continue to ignore.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

LOL. Where did you get the idea that the Bible itself doesn't contain contradictions? Divorce, no divorce? Slavery, no slavery?

Its not my "idea". I hate to boast but i have read the Bible cover to cover multiple times, the New Testament much more than that, and continue my studies. Supposed "contradictions" are reconciled if one keeps in mind to whom, and when, that particular book was written.

The Church is based on Tradition and Scriptures. Why the former? Because it's what led to the formation of the latter!

And then your church decided to continue making up doctrines for centuries after.

What if i was to say the eastern church was the true church? Didn't they in fact also compile the scriptures? Yet, no pope and there's married priests...

Even with your low opinion of Biblical Christianity, it doesnt change the the fact that your roman church is not the undisputed "true" church.

Jesus is not a mediator. The Blessed Virgin Mary is. Get it right.

1 Timothy 2:5
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

According to the Bible the ONE mediator is Jesus Christ, not his mother. You get it right.

While we're on the subject of Mary...

Originally this was addressed to @SnowFall as they volunteered to do apologetics, but now i ask you. Isn't it convenient that the doctrines related to Mary come from the council of Ephesus, a notorious diana worship city?

What a coincidence that the day to celebrate the "assumption of Mary" was changed to be celebrated on the date of the yearly feast to diana, despite there being evidence that originally Mary was commemorated in January.

Ok, since youre going to do apologetics explain these things to us.

Why was it that the title "Mother of God" (Theotokos) instead of "Mother of Christ" (Christotokos) was decided in the council of Ephesus, a city well known for it's worship of Diana (according to the Bible, and secular history). A council where many of the bishops were not permitted to participate in. Kind of convenient, dont you think?

Also, why is the day commemorated as either Mary's death, or bodily ascension to heaven, celebrated on the day that the pagans celebrated Nemoralia, a day dedicated to Diana.

Nemoralia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The Nemoralia (also known as the Festival of Torches or Hecatean Ides) is a three-day festival originally celebrated by the ancient Romans on the Ides of August (August 13–15) in honor of the goddess Diana. Although the Nemoralia was originally celebrated at the Sanctuary of Diana at Lake Nemi, it soon became more widely celebrated. The Catholic Church may have adapted the Nemoralia as the Feast of the Assumption.

If at some point she was celebrated on January 18, why was the date changed to August 15?

Mary’s Assumption | Simply Catholic

The sacred Tradition of the Church plays an important role in the daily celebration of our faith. Linked integrally with Scripture and the magisterium, the Tradition is God’s revelation and thus acts as a source

www.simplycatholic.com

A Gallic liturgy of the mid-sixth century is the first evidence of the celebration of the Assumption in the Western Church. This feast, held on Jan. 18, was called in a seventh-century Sacramentary the “Feast of Mary’s Assumption.” St. Gregory of Tours (d. c. 596), in his treatise “On the Glory of the Martyrs,” affirms Mary’s assumption: “The Lord bade the sacred body [of Mary] be borne aloft on a cloud and carried to paradise, where, reunited to the soul, and rejoicing with His elect, it enjoys the good things of eternity in unending bliss.”

Just a few questions that no one on the internet seems to ask or know the answer to...

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

The connection between the catholic church and child trafficking

Are U.S. Bishops Complicit in the Trafficking and Exploitation of Migrant Children? | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hᴏft

This article originally appeared on Complicit Clergy and was republished with permission.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

The Catholic Church is one of the largest recipients of government grants and contracts for immigration-related activities in America. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB), which lobbies the government for ever-expanding migrant programs, received over $67 million in migrant-related funding in 2021, it’s second-largest source of revenue that year.
...
CHILD TRAFFICKING

One of the unfortunate byproducts of opening the floodgates of illegal immigration has been a dramatic increase in the trafficking of migrant children. Project Veritas recently released a report revealing how American taxpayers are funding child trafficking at the borders. Tara Lee Rodas, a U.S. Department of Health & Human Services whistleblower, explains that migrant children are being exploited for sex and labor, stating that government funds are being used ‘put children in the hands of criminals’
...
CONCLUSION

In the final analysis, the U.S. Catholic Church, under the direction of our bishops, is KNOWINGLY involved in the trafficking of illegal aliens. Whether knowingly or not, the Church is also LIKELY involved in the trafficking of migrate children in which they are being exploited for sex and/or labor. This will eventually open the Catholic Church to both criminal and civil lawsuits.

In an ironic twist, the US Catholic Church has gained over $3 Billion for immigration activities, and also lost over $3 Billion to criminal and civil suits for the sexual abuse of children. Should it ever be discovered that the US Catholic Church’s involvement in the settlement of illegal aliens also involved the sexual abuse of children, the consequences would be devastating.

Also begs the question, why is the US govt funding the activities of the catholic church if there supposedly is separation of church and state?

 

[monkeylove]

What do you make of traditions that entirely negate or contradict the message of the Bible? If your analysis was right, cutely the Bible as canonised should be supportive of Catholic doctrine?

Pointless as many things from the NT challenge the OT, such as divorce, circumscision, and so on.

Also, my so-called analysis is merely a fact: the Bible did not select its own books but Catholics following Tradition and more, such as arguing that there should be four Gospels because there are four winds, and so on.

Based on that alone, Biblical Christianity has no sense whatsoever.

 

[monkeylove]

Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the Sixth Day.


Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the COMMANDment of God by your Tradition?


1 Timothy 2:5 For [there is] ONE God, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the Man Jesus Christ;



2 Thessalonians 2:3-12
2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of The Destroyer (Lucifer - Satan);
2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in The Temple of God, showing himself that he is God (the Holy Father).
2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2:7 For the mystery (Rev. 17:5) of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the [Sword of the] Spirit from his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness [of the enlightening] of his coming:
2:9 [Even the Wicked], whose coming is the work of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of The Truth, that they might be saved.
2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not The Truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


Matthew 5:17-20
5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy The Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill [fully preach The Law (The Torah) and fulfill the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah].
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from The Law, till all be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least COMMANDments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in The Kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in The Kingdom of heaven.
5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall EXCEED [the righteousness] of the lawyers and politicians, ye shall in no case enter into The Kingdom of heaven.



Revelation 17
17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come here; I will show unto thee the Judgment of the great "Whore" that sitteth upon many "waters":
17:2 With whom the kings of the Earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the Earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
17:4 And the woman was arrayed in PURPLE (bishops) and SCARLET (cardinals) colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY (2 Thess. 2:7), BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS (her daughters) AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of her saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
17:7 And the angel said unto me, Why didst thou marvel? (Stop it!) I will tell thee the MYSTERY of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.
17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the Bottomless Pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the Earth shall wonder, whose names were NOT written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
17:9 And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth (Rome).
17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even it is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
17:14 These shall make war against the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.
17:15 And he saith unto me, The "waters" which thou sawest, where the "Whore" sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the "Whore", and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill His Will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great CITY, which reigneth over the kings of the Earth (Rome).


Proverbs 21:1-2
21:1 The king's heart [is] in the hand of the "I AM", [as] the rivers of water: He turneth it wheresoever He will.
21:2 Every way of a man [is] right in his own eyes: but the "I AM" pondereth the hearts.

You addressed none of my points. Divorce appeared in the OT but Jesus challenged it. Circumcision was prescribed in Jesus' world but Paul took exception in favor of gentile converts.

See, this is what happens when you rely on Biblical Christianity: you can't even resolve the internal contradictions in Scriptures!

 

[monkeylove]

Simple facts and just a few of the RCC vs. Bible contradictions, continued -

> RCC: Claims their contradictory tradition is equal to scripture

RCC Catechism 81 "Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."
"And [Holy] Tradition transmits in its entirety the Word of God which has been entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit. It transmits it to the successors of the apostles so that, enlightened by the Spirit of truth, they may faithfully preserve, expound and spread it abroad by their preaching." 82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honored with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence."

> BIBLE: Claims contradictory tradition is worthless and a deception

Col 3:20-23 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” [which all refer to things destined to perish with the using] - in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men? These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgences.

Jer 9:25 Hear what the Lord says to you, O house of Israel. 2 This is what the Lord says: “Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the sky, though the nations are terrified by them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. 4 They adorn it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so it will not totter. 5 Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. “

Heb 13:7 Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. 9 Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings.

Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel – 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9 As we have already said, no now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

1 Tim 6:3 If anyone advocates a different doctrine, and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, 4 he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, 5 and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.

Acts 5:29 “We must obey God rather than men.”

_________________________

RCC Catechism from the official Vatican website: https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

Tradition is not seen as equal to Scriptures. Rather, Tradition is what determined which books to include in Scriptures!

 

[monkeylove]

Its not my "idea". I hate to boast but i have read the Bible cover to cover multiple times, the New Testament much more than that, and continue my studies. Supposed "contradictions" are reconciled if one keeps in mind to whom, and when, that particular book was written.


And then your church decided to continue making up doctrines for centuries after.

What if i was to say the eastern church was the true church? Didn't they in fact also compile the scriptures? Yet, no pope and there's married priests...

Even with your low opinion of Biblical Christianity, it doesnt change the the fact that your roman church is not the undisputed "true" church.


1 Timothy 2:5
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

According to the Bible the ONE mediator is Jesus Christ, not his mother. You get it right.

While we're on the subject of Mary...

Originally this was addressed to @SnowFall as they volunteered to do apologetics, but now i ask you. Isn't it convenient that the doctrines related to Mary come from the council of Ephesus, a notorious diana worship city?

What a coincidence that the day to celebrate the "assumption of Mary" was changed to be celebrated on the date of the yearly feast to diana, despite there being evidence that originally Mary was commemorated in January.

Any magnificent genius can claim that he or she read the Bible cover to cover, but what's the point of raising that in a forum that's has no ID and biodata verification? Your boasts are empty.

The point is that the same Tradition that you despise is ironically what led to select which books to include in the Bible. Even the number of Gospels to include is based on more than that.

 

[monkeylove]

As the RCC has promoted the false doctrine that we allegedly no longer need to keep The Law that God gave us to save us based upon their errant interpretations of the letters of Paul -- a practice adopted by all of the Protestant denominations -- perhaps a logical analogy would help others understand the terrain where we presently find ourselves deployed.

A man was indebted well beyond his means, from a series of very poor decisions and being unwilling to properly manage his own personal affairs. As a result, that man was facing certain bondage that would eventually and inevitably lead to his death.

A good friend redeemed the man/debtor on his behalf, paying a terrible price for that debt.

The man/debtor asked his good friend if there was anything he could ever do to show his gratitude for what his good friend had done.

His good friend replied that he could best show his gratitude by making better decisions and properly manage his own, personal affairs, to avoid ever finding himself in that situation again, so that he could "pay it forward". That would, of course, be best for all involved, by preventing others from being unjustly punished by someone running up a debt they couldn't pay (in effect stealing from others).

It should be obvious that if the same man ran up yet another insurmountable debt after that, hoping he could take advantage of his good friend to pay off his debt for a second time, it would prove that he wasn't grateful at all, and was either incapable or unwilling to learn from his mistakes.

This is exactly what Scripture teaches us about sin (debt). The whole of The Law is based upon one universal principle: DON'T STEAL FROM OTHERS.

When someone commits adultery, they steal another man's wife.
When someone murders another, they unlawfully take the life of another.
When someone is wasteful, they steal precious resources from others.
When someone pollutes or destroys the environment, they steal its pristine nature from future generations.
When someone doesn't follow the Perfect Diet, they are helping to destroy our natural environment.
When someone takes another man's possessions without their permission, they are obviously stealing.
When someone rapes a woman or molests a child, they steal their innocence from them.

The list goes on and on for every single Commandment given to us in The Law, about relationships, about dealing with others justly and fairly, about the administration of justice, about the treatment of strangers, and about every other conceivable set of circumstances we might encounter during life here on planet Earth.

Unless someone foolishly believes we are all incurable kleptomaniacs, incapable of coveting and stealing from others, then it ought to become obvious why Christ teaches us that The Law will NEVER pass away, i.e. theft will NEVER be lawful in ANY form, regardless of whether men temporarily "legalize" theft, e.g. in the form of "offerings" given to church and taxes/tributes given to state, which are two heads of the same beast that is devouring men.

Gibberish. There is no false doctrine involved, as it was Paul himself who debated with fellow disciples on issues concerning Jewish versus gentile customs!