why Christians reject Roman Catholic church

[A Freeman]

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Interesting read! I think the column on the left is pure straw man. It might be an interesting exercise to deconstruct point by point but I haven’t the time right now.

So are you now going to pretend you don't worship a "trinity" and that you don't teach others that keeping of God's Law, found in the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) is unnecessary?

What out of the left-hand column (Matt. 25:33) do you feel doesn't accurately represent the beliefs of "Christianity", most of which was adopted from the RCC?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

@A Freeman - if you believe that the column on the left is anything other than a misinterpretation and distortion of Christianity, you are genuinely delusional!!!

 

[Lyfe]

Where did Jesus teach that "We have been mercifully given many human lifetimes to learn from God how to be good" ?

You said only the 144 thousand will be saved. Who are they?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

So are you now going to pretend you don't worship a "trinity" and that you don't teach others that keeping of God's Law, found in the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) is unnecessary?

What out of the left-hand column (Matt. 25:33) do you feel doesn't accurately represent the beliefs of "Christianity", most of which was adopted from the RCC?

I would agree that I worship the Triune God, and that God’s law represents God’s will for his people to obey. As we are born sinners, our attempts to keep that law fail, but that shouldn’t stop us trying. I also hold that you must be born again in order to see God. Does the King of Kings Bible contain Romans 6,7 & 8? Might be worth you checking it out…

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I think this point needs addressing:

Acts 7
King James Version

48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth NOT in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

This is brought up as though the only place in the universe where God would not be present would be in buildings erected for the purpose of worship. I think this is a false reading.

Lawyers frequently use the phrase “including but not limited to…” and I think that this is the sense in the passage intends.

 

[A Freeman]

@A Freeman - if you believe that the column on the left is anything other than a misinterpretation and distortion of Christianity, you are genuinely delusional!!!

You didn't answer the question, but instead resorted to name-calling (ad hominem logical fallacy). Again, if there's anything in the list that you feel isn't accurate, then please feel free to point it out, along with the Scripture that makes you feel it's somehow a misrepresentation.

I would agree that I worship the Triune God,

Which is breaking the First Commandment according to Both Father (God) and Christ.

and that God’s law represents God’s will for his people to obey.

Good. It therefore logically follows that anyone who isn't keeping The Law isn't doing His Will.

As we are born sinners, our attempts to keep that law fail, but that shouldn’t stop us trying.

Why are our efforts to keep The Law doomed to failure? The basic, universal principle of The Law is that theft, in all of its forms, is a crime. Are you saying that we're incapable of overcoming our selfish urges to steal from others and/or that our Perfect Creator allegedly gave us a Law that no one can keep?

of I also hold that you must be born again in order to see God.

Doesn't Scripture tell us that IF one is truly born again, they will no longer fail at keeping The Law?

Does the King of Kings Bible contain Romans 6,7 & 8? Might be worth you checking it out…

Thank-you. They've been read multiple times and it was noted that Paul stated within those chapters that the wages of sin (breaking The Law) are death (Rom. 6:23), that The Law/Commandments that God gave us are holy, just and good (Rom. 7:12) and that he himself was keeping The Law (Rom. 7:25).

Paul also shared why we must become a spirit-Being in control of the flesh/human we are incarnated inside of (minding spiritual matters) so that we can keep The Law, which is the only way to belong to Christ. When the flesh/human is in control, we are God's enemy, because the flesh/human can never please God. That is why we must learn to mortify/crucify the flesh (see Rom. 8:5-22), as Jesus taught (Luke 9:23).

Interestingly, Paul then goes on to tell us that Christ is the firstborn/first-created Being among many brethren, confirming there is no "trinity" (Rom. 8:28-29).

Have you read those chapters yourself please? Because if you have, you may wish to review them again, seeing that they testify against what you are advising others to do and believe.

God gave us The Law to protect us from evil and to set and keep us free. God, Who knows exactly what we are capable of, didn't give us a law we cannot keep. That's why Paul kept The Law and was establishing it everywhere he went (Rom. 3:31), while advising others that only DOERS of The Law shall be justified (Rom. 2:13). Did you perhaps miss that please?

The RCC/great whore has spent the past 1700 years or so trying to get people to believe and follow the misinterpretations of Paul's letters, and seems to have successfully conned it harlot daughters (the protestant denominations) to do the same. Why?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

You didn't answer the question, but instead resorted to name-calling (ad hominem logical fallacy). Again, if there's anything in the list that you feel isn't accurate, then please feel free to point it out, along with the Scripture that makes you feel it's somehow a misrepresentation.

Your left column may not be a misrepresentation of what a religion based on Christianity might claim, but the statements are way off anything that genuine Christians would recognise as an accurate presentation of Biblical Christianity.

The delusion I refer to is the persistent impression that the Qur’an has anything to add or compliment the Bible. There was a cult in the 18th Century that integrated eastern and Abrahamic religions. It didn’t end well…

 

[A Freeman]

I think this point needs addressing:

Acts 7
King James Version

48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth NOT in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

This is brought up as though the only place in the universe where God would not be present would be in buildings erected for the purpose of worship. I think this is a false reading.

Lawyers frequently use the phrase “including but not limited to…” and I think that this is the sense in the passage intends.

The verse is written as plainly as it could be written and means exactly what it says. Why would God dwell in a place where heathens and hypocrites worship their own egos (desiring only to be seen by others)?

Christ also told us that no lawyer will ever enter the kingdom of heaven unless they repent of being a lawyer (which itself is a capital crime under The Law). So advising others to try to employ the deceitful tactics of legalese to the Scriptures is extremely satanic on your part, and something you should stop immediately, for your own sake and for the sake of others you might mislead with that satanic nonsense.

P.S. the terminology “including but not limited to…” usually involves a list of items, and is stated that way to ensure the list isn't taken to be comprehensive. When there's only one item being addressed, there is no list nor use for that phrase, because the single item is obviously included.

 

[A Freeman]

Your left column may not be a misrepresentation of what a religion based on Christianity might claim, but the statements are way off anything that genuine Christians would recognise as an accurate presentation of Biblical Christianity.

Then you admit you were bearing false witness/lying. Why would you do that please?

If your beliefs are that fragile, that you feel the need to engage in such sinful behaviour to defend them, shouldn't that raise a red flag in your mind that those beliefs are in error? Please focus on the right-hand column, for everyone's benefit.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Then you admit you were bearing false witness/lying. Why would you do that please?

If your beliefs are that fragile, that you feel the need to engage in such sinful behaviour to defend them, shouldn't that raise a red flag in your mind that those beliefs are in error? Please focus on the right-hand column, for everyone's benefit.

I don’t know how I can simplify this further. The statements you claim represent “Christianity” don’t. You then set the KoK alternatives in an attempt at a positive light by offsetting them against your straw [christian] men. It’s that simple.

e.g. you claim that Christians believe “There are allegedly thousands of different ways that lead back home, to heaven”

*which is a demonstrably false claim about Christianity. E.g. John 14:​

5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.​

Then you say “There is ONE Way home, and that is by following Christ's Example”

*which is God’s will for all mankind, but it not the Gospel.​

In a way, the above KoK example is a very Catholic way of looking at things. Some even taking the “example” idea as far as being partially crucified to follow in the Lord’s footsteps of suffering.

 

[Maldarker]

Why are our efforts to keep The Law doomed to failure? The basic, universal principle of The Law is that theft, in all of its forms, is a crime. Are you saying that we're incapable of overcoming our selfish urges to steal from others and/or that our Perfect Creator allegedly gave us a Law that no one can keep?

Because we are flawed creations that's why we are doomed to failure...sounds like a scripture right there not? (CHRIST even said if you think upon a woman with impure thoughts...as a guy got to say i have looked at a woman and had an impure thought....well with just that one thought i sinned see where going here...) Every word thought deed are you able to not have a bad thought? Muttered a bad word by accident? etc. suppose you haven't had or do any of this or thought right?

 

[monkeylove]

You are assuming the RCC put the Bible together, which is a fallacy. There was no RCC during the time of Christ and the apostles. The NT scriptures were written and distributed among believers long before the RCC came along.

2 Thess 2:13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

2 Pet 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters.

"Put together" doesn't mean "wrote" but selecting the books that would make up the Christian Bible. That's why Biblical Christianity is illogical, as it attacks the same RCC that selected the books.

 

[monkeylove]

Except NOWHERE do the gospels say to worship or "venerate" Mary. Or that she's sinless. Or the "Queen of Heaven". Or assumed up to heaven without first dying.

Or any doctrines the catholic curch has developed along the years, centuries after being formed.

When Jesus was told his mother (and brothers) were outside wanting a word with Him, He replied that all who do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35
32And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. 33And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? 34And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 35For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Matthew 12:50
47Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Seems like some wasted opportunities for Jesus, or the gospel authors, to inform us that we are to worship Mary, wouldn't you say?

That's because Catholic doctrine is based on Tradition and Scripture. Why the two? Because it's the former that selected the books that would make up the latter!

 

[monkeylove]

I understand the Catholic position on this, but the answer is slightly more subtle. The early church was plagued by Gnostic writings (e.g. the ones at the Nag Hamadi library) and a number of falsely attributed gospels and letters. The early church councils had the job of identifying the true writings from the counterfeit ones. It would appear to me that were obviously good, others were obviously bad (like Sophia and the Archons) while the remaining doubtful ones ended up in the Apocrypha!

Think of anti-virus software scanning files. Some files are fine, others flag up as viruses for removal and still others end up in quarantine. This carries less of a sense of being “put together” and far more of being “discerned”.

Yes, but that's not my point. Rather, Biblical Christianity is illogical because the same RCC that BC attacks was responsible for selecting the works that would make up the Bible that BC it attempts to use to attack RCC. Get it?

 

[monkeylove]

Yes, although nothing has changed in The Law by Jesus' summary (including the fact that it's impossible to keep the First Commandment whilst worshiping a pagan "trinity").

Mark 12:29-31
12:29 And Jesus answered him, The First of all the Commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is ONE Lord:
12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength and serve Him ONLY: this [is] the first COMMANDment.
12:31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other COMMANDment greater than these.


Yes, in exactly The Way that we've been Commanded and taught to do so by Christ.


No, mainstream "Christianity" only pretends to do that, whilst promoting its own doctrines, rites, rituals, traditions, and superstitions, etc., which are in opposition to Christ's True Teachings found in the Gospel accounts. But we've been over all of that before.

Christianity teaches:		Christ teaches:
God is allegedly three individual gods that aren't really three gods but one god playing three different roles Father allegedly is one-third of a 3=1 “trinity” god Christ allegedly is one-third of the 3=1 “trinity” god Jesus allegedly was/is one-third of the 3=1 “trinity” god The Holy Spirit allegedly is one-third of the 3=1 “trinity” god Allegedly, The Father = The Son = The Holy Spirit God allegedly has brethren God allegedly has many brethren Christ did away with The Law Keeping God's Law/Commandments allegedly isn't necessary, and deemed to be impossible Anyone who allegedly believes in Jesus has been “saved”, regardless of what they say or do We can allegedly judge ourselves to be “saved” by following what Christianity teaches We should allegedly go to church, because that's what God supposedly wants us to do We should allegedly pray to the 3=1 “trinity” We should allegedly pray by repeating pledges, creeds and doctrines in church, to show others we believe as they do We should supposedly sing a bunch of silly songs together in church to make ourselves feel better We should allegedly be baptized by humans with water “Holy Communion” allegedly is a ritual involving wafers and wine We should allegedly trust in human leaders Priests, pastors, etc. are allegedly closer to God and supposedly work for God We allegedly are humans that have a soul We allegedly get only one human lifetime to get it right or burn for eternity There are allegedly thousands of different ways that lead back home, to heaven We are all allegedly relatively good people, living relatively good lives If we live, what Christianity considers to be a good human life, we allegedly will go to heaven Many “Christians” have allegedly already gone to heaven Many “Christians” will allegedly be “raptured” and thus supposedly will not have to face Judgment on Judgment Day Many devout“Christians” will allegedly go to heaven Allegedly many will be saved		There is One God Father is God Christ is the first-created Son of God Jesus was the human Son of Mary whom Christ incarnated 2000 years ago (aka the "Son of Man") The Holy Spirit is our spiritual connection to/with Father Father is Greater than All, including Christ (and is Christ's God too) God has children (many sons) Christ, the Son of God, has many brethren The Law will NEVER pass away Keeping God's Law/Commandments is absolutely essential and is certainly possible with God's Help Those who truly believe Christ was incarnated inside Jesus will follow His Example and become Christ-like Father has committed all Judgment to Christ, Who will judge everyone one according to their works on the Last Day Only hypocrites and heathens go to church, to be seen by others We should pray to Father We should pray to Father in private, and with thoughts (telepathically) rather than with spoken words We should be learning the “New Song”, which is the perfect harmony of the “Song of Moses” and the “Song of the Lamb” We should be baptized by Christ with “Fire” (the Holy Spirit) Holy Communion is being at One With Father and His Christ We should trust in Father and His Christ Priests, pastors, etc. do not work for God and are leading their followers to their destruction We are spiritual-Beings (Souls) temporarily incarnated inside of a human We have been mercifully given many human lifetimes to learn from God how to be good There is ONE Way home, and that is by following Christ's Example We are all sinners/criminals, i.e. selfish people who do evil things to one another We will all be judged according to whether our works follow Christ's Example No one has ever gone to heaven, except for Christ, Who came from heaven Everyone will have to face Judgment on Judgment Day No “Christian” will go to heaven Only 144,000 will be redeemed from the Earth (all of whom are true Israelites)

The Gospels used to argue for Jesus' "True Teachings" were selected by "mainstream 'Christianity'"!

 

[Lurking009]

"Put together" doesn't mean "wrote" but selecting the books that would make up the Christian Bible. That's why Biblical Christianity is illogical, as it attacks the same RCC that selected the books.

The 'selected' books were already in circulation and known to be scripture long before the RCC came into existence. God inspired them and God selected them. The RCC chose to add books that should never have been included.

 

[A Freeman]

I don’t know how I can simplify this further. The statements you claim represent “Christianity” don’t. You then set the KoK alternatives in an attempt at a positive light by offsetting them against your straw [christian] men. It’s that simple.

e.g. you claim that Christians believe “There are allegedly thousands of different ways that lead back home, to heaven”

*which is a demonstrably false claim about Christianity. E.g. John 14:​

5Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.​

Then you say “There is ONE Way home, and that is by following Christ's Example”

*which is God’s will for all mankind, but it not the Gospel.​

In a way, the above KoK example is a very Catholic way of looking at things. Some even taking the “example” idea as far as being partially crucified to follow in the Lord’s footsteps of suffering.

There are reportedly over 3000 different denominations that call themselves "Christian", each of them believing they have it right and the others have it wrong (or they wouldn't have been created in the first place), never considering the reality that they are all wrong (beginning with the "mother church"/RCC that gave birth to all the others).

There is only ONE Christ and following Him and His Example of obedience to God is THE Way (home, to heaven, where Father is), which is exactly what John 14:6 says.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

You are trying to argue that up is down and that evil is good, etc., which will never work. The traditions of men (e.g. "churchianity") make the Commandments of God of no effect according to Christ, and yet you are here promoting these Babylonian/Roman traditions. Why?

The Bible explicitly and repeatedly condemns ALL churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, etc. as well as the priests, pastors, rabbis and imams, etc. who work in them.
...
Anyone who reads The Way home or face The Fire by JAH and (mistakenly) believes it is somehow promoting churches and their clergy must either be sound asleep spiritually or intentionally trying to be deceptive.

No.

Your book clearly says, in the screenshot i posted, that churches were built to shelter people from the elements - and children - so they could concentrate on talking to God (prayer). Which is not the same thing as saying that going into same building (and praying) is somehow demonic or babylonian.

If your viewpoint has changed perhaps you should edit your book.

I never claimed your book promotes clergy of any kind.

Along with others on this forum, you have been presented with the irrefutable facts that children are sexually assaulted in such places (churches, etc.), and that men, women and children have been murdered in such places and yet here you are trying to argue why we really need to support and perpetuate these evil places and evil people, while trying to redefine all of this as "good" (Isa. 5:20-21). Why?

Find a post where i have said that we should support them. All i have said is that i have no judgment for people attending a Bible-believing church that has correct doctrine (which catholicism is NOT). For the record, as Ive said many times on this forum, I DONT ATTEND CHURCH, a big part which has to do with protecting my children.

And i never denied that children have been s*xually assaulted in churches. I said that a child will not be assaulted if their parents are actually responsibly watching them.

As for people being murdered in public places, including churches, should we all also not go to grocery stores or attend any public events since people get murdered there too?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Yes, but that's not my point. Rather, Biblical Christianity is illogical because the same RCC that BC attacks was responsible for selecting the works that would make up the Bible that BC it attempts to use to attack RCC. Get it?

Here’s the thing though - the RCC of the first few centuries was not what it became. If you don’t believe me, just look at the development of Mariology through the progressive popes?

I like real orange juice, but I remember in the 90s, after years of various Orange drinks made from concentrate and mixed with other ingredients graced the supermarkets, a product called “Sunny D” hit the shelves. It had an orange colour but . I tried some once and it really wasn’t for me…

The thing is, kids who had never tried real orange juice drank what they were given and for a time, Sunny D made a fortune. Not long after that, you started to get real orange hitting the shelves in the supermarkets and then the difference became obvious.

That would appear to be what incrementally happened to the Catholic Church. Perhaps due to the doctrine of Papal Infallibility, the progressive statements made Ex Cathedra reduced the “juice” of the Gospel and added other ingredients till Luther tasted the truth of the Bible and famously pinned the ingredients of the RCC at the time to that famous door in Wittenberg.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

There are reportedly over 3000 different denominations that call themselves "Christian", each of them believing they have it right and the others have it wrong (or they wouldn't have been created in the first place), never considering the reality that they are all wrong (beginning with the "mother church"/RCC that gave birth to all the others).

There is only ONE Christ and following Him and His Example of obedience to God is THE Way (home, to heaven, where Father is), which is exactly what John 14:6 says.

That kind or argument is standard Muslim fare. The reality is that these recognisably Christian denominations may well preach the truth about John 3 and 1 Corinthians 15 (and as such be congregations of born again people) yet have areas of doctrine about secondary issues where they differ.

As young Christians, “just” to be saved is incredible, but as you go on with the Lord, it is hard to wholeheartedly be a member of a church where interpretations you disagree with are promoted from the front. Rather than become contentious, denominations are often a least bad way of focussing on the Lord and avoiding arguing about theological differences with those within your church. Also, I don’t believe any denomination gets it 100% right on every area.