why Christians reject Roman Catholic church

[Lyfe]

I really do believe that if someone is fathered by God and led by the holy spirit they will eventually come out of apostate ministries. The holy spirit is the ultimate revealer of truth and gives discernment. God loves his children and doesn't want to see them destroyed by the snares of the wicked one. He will deliver and lead someone out like a shephard leads his sheep.

Now do I believe there are catholics who are truly saved? I do, but I also believe it's only a matter of time before God leads them out.

 

[JoChris]

I really do believe that if someone is fathered by God and led by the holy spirit they will eventually come out of apostate ministries. The holy spirit is the ultimate revealer of truth and gives discernment. God loves his children and doesn't want to see them destroyed by the snares of the wicked one. He will deliver and lead someone out like a shephard leads his sheep.

Now do I believe there are catholics who are truly saved? I do, but I also believe it's only a matter of time before God leads them out.

I left the Catholic church after I read the bible and believed the Gospel.
Biblical Christianity and the Roman Catholic church are incompatible.

 

[Padre_Neo]

Another thing to add, Catholics also have a more world inclusive and encompassing viewpoint that compromises the gospel I.E. Non believers, Muslims etc, would not go to hell but purgatory. That certain people have "logos" meaning the holy spirit to some degree despite not believing. Bishop Barron I seen a video recently quoting in which he stated that Christ is the preferred method of salvation but there are others.

 

[Lurking009]

While there are many things in Catholic teaching, that are unbiblical, there are many highlights, that Evangelical Christianity is slightly devoid of. One being is nobility in suffering and offering your suffering up. Catholicism somewhat venerates suffering as something to embrace, I don't see this as much in Evangelical Christianity. There are many great Doctors of the Catholic church, and many disciplines within it that I think really speak to a Christians walk, unfortunately, the Church promotes itself as the one true Church, and has all sorts of heresies within its teachings now. Interestingly enough, there has been a resurgence in Catholicism lately, in popular culture. I was quite impressed with the movie Father Stu. I can't help but feel though however that Catholicism is still very much rooted in a tribal nature, of being "part of the special lot" that have it completely right, and of a worldly sanctuary for being part of the tribe. But I myself find the Catholic tradition very beautiful at times, and aesthetically pleasing. There are also many Saints that lived pious lives and had a relationship with Christ that would put many to shame, St Patrick, Cuthbert, Bede and others. To throw the baby out with the bathwater and judge Catholicism as nothing more than heretical is short sighted.

There is nothing to salvage from the wreckage of false RCC doctrine. The main issue is that the RCC rejects and denies the completed work and salvation of Christ at it's very core. Hence, it is not a Christian church. No amount of good deeds, beautiful buildings, mystical rituals, pious saints, and indulgences will change that fact. For hundreds of years the RCC has been deceiving and leading it's followers astray and away from salvation.

The RCC actively works against the Bible at every turn. If the RCC is true, then the Bible must be false. If the Bible is true, then the RCC must be false. There is NO way to reconcile these two conflicting beliefs. See posts #153, #159, and #252 for the proof.

 

[Lurking009]

I really do believe that if someone is fathered by God and led by the holy spirit they will eventually come out of apostate ministries. The holy spirit is the ultimate revealer of truth and gives discernment. God loves his children and doesn't want to see them destroyed by the snares of the wicked one. He will deliver and lead someone out like a shephard leads his sheep.

Now do I believe there are catholics who are truly saved? I do, but I also believe it's only a matter of time before God leads them out.

I don't disagree. I have no doubt there are people attending RCC's who may internally reject the false doctrine and believe the truth of the Bible. Eventually they will be called to make a stand for the truth and leave. Same can be said for any non-Christian church such as Mormon, JW, etc.

 

[Lyfe]

I don't disagree. I have no doubt there are people attending RCC's who may internally reject the false doctrine and believe the truth of the Bible. Eventually they will be called to make a stand for the truth and leave. Same can be said for any non-Christian church such as Mormon, JW, etc.

I remember when I first came to Christ ten years ago. I thought that it was at my own promptings that I was doing all this searching and seeking of the truth, but I now know that it was God directing me and showing me the truth. Jesus said he would send us the spirit of truth that would lead us into all truth. God doesn't just sit back and leave his children to their own discretion, he guides them.

Proverbs 22:12 The eyes of the LORD keep watch over knowledge,

 

[monkeylove]

Simple facts and just a few of the RCC vs. Bible contradictions, continued -

> RCC: Claims Mary directly intercedes, mediates and saves

His Holiness Pope John Paul II, March 25, 1987 
21 …Thus there is a mediation: Mary places herself between her Son and mankind in the reality of their wants, needs and sufferings. She puts herself "in the middle," that is to say she acts as a mediatrix not as an outsider, but in her position as mother. Her mediation is thus in the nature of intercession: Mary "intercedes" for mankind.
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_25031987_redemptoris-mater_en.html

Ubi Primum, Pope Pius IX 1849 
The foundation of all Our confidence, as you know well, Venerable Brethren, is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. For, God has committed to Mary the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that through her are obtained every hope, every grace, and all salvation.

Great indeed is Our trust in Mary. The resplendent glory of her merits, far exceeding all the choirs of angels, elevates her to the very steps of the throne of God. Her foot has crushed the head of Satan. Set up between Christ and His Church, Mary, ever lovable and full of grace, always has delivered the Christian people from their greatest calamities and from the snares and assaults of all their enemies, ever rescuing them from ruin.

https://www.papalencyclicals.net//pius09/p9ubipr2.htm

RCC Catechism 969 "Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation... Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."

> BIBLE: Claims only Jesus Christ directly intercedes, mediates and saves

1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all men.

Heb 7:23 Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24 but because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. 25 Therefore He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them.

Heb 9:15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance – now that He has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
_________________________

> RCC: Mary was sinless

RCC Catechism 508 From among the descendants of Eve, God chose the Virgin Mary to be the mother of his Son. "Full of grace", Mary is "the most excellent fruit of redemption" (SC 103): from the first instant of her conception, she was totally preserved from the stain of original sin and she remained pure from all personal sin throughout her life

RCC Catechism 493 The Fathers of the Eastern tradition call the Mother of God "the All-Holy" (Panagia), and celebrate her as "free from any stain of sin, as though fashioned by the Holy Spirit and formed as a new creature". By the grace of God Mary remained free of every personal sin her whole life long.

> BIBLE: Only Jesus was sinless

Heb 4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have One who has been tempted in every way, just as we are – yet was without sin.

1 Pet 1:18 For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from our forefathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all have sinned – 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world.
_________________________

The Mary of the RCC is essentially equal to Christ. According to RCC doctrine, she was immaculately conceived, sinless, saves, mediates, delivers and is worthy of faith and worship.

RCC Catechism from the official Vatican website: https://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_INDEX.HTM

These points make no sense if the Bible itself was put together by the Church. That means doctrines are based on both tradition and scriptures.

This is reinforced by the argument of the time texts were produced. For example, Paul likely wrote before the Gospels were completed, but it's the latter that's the bases for Mariology.

Finally, the last point is a misinterpretation: she is a mediatrix, which means she does not save or deliver.

 

[monkeylove]

The same Bible was put together by the Church, and many of its NT authors did not have access to each other. For example, Paul wrote before the Gospels were completed.

That's why Biblical Christianity is questionable.

 

[Lyfe]

You either believe that it is God who has given us the word or you don't.

 

[Lurking009]

These points make no sense if the Bible itself was put together by the Church. That means doctrines are based on both tradition and scriptures.

This is reinforced by the argument of the time texts were produced. For example, Paul likely wrote before the Gospels were completed, but it's the latter that's the bases for Mariology.

Finally, the last point is a misinterpretation: she is a mediatrix, which means she does not save or deliver.

You are assuming the RCC put the Bible together, which is a fallacy. There was no RCC during the time of Christ and the apostles. The NT scriptures were written and distributed among believers long before the RCC came along.

2 Thess 2:13 But we ought always to thank God for you, brothers loved by the Lord, because from the beginning God chose you to be saved through the sanctifying work of the Spirit and through belief in the truth. 14 He called you to this through our gospel, that you might share in the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

2 Pet 3:15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

Another thing to add, Catholics also have a more world inclusive and encompassing viewpoint that compromises the gospel I.E. Non believers, Muslims etc, would not go to hell but purgatory. That certain people have "logos" meaning the holy spirit to some degree despite not believing. Bishop Barron I seen a video recently quoting in which he stated that Christ is the preferred method of salvation but there are others.

I can't find the article where i read this, but from what i remember it said that all those you mentioned would be saved if they are "good people", but believers in Jesus Christ who reject the catholic church are damned.

Many of the people murdered by the caholic church in years past were not pagans or Muslims but Christians who disagreed with Rome's doctrine or refused to baptize their babies.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

This is reinforced by the argument of the time texts were produced. For example, Paul likely wrote before the Gospels were completed, but it's the latter that's the bases for Mariology.

Except NOWHERE do the gospels say to worship or "venerate" Mary. Or that she's sinless. Or the "Queen of Heaven". Or assumed up to heaven without first dying.

Or any doctrines the catholic curch has developed along the years, centuries after being formed.

When Jesus was told his mother (and brothers) were outside wanting a word with Him, He replied that all who do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Mark 3:35
32And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee. 33And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? 34And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 35For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Matthew 12:50
47Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Seems like some wasted opportunities for Jesus, or the gospel authors, to inform us that we are to worship Mary, wouldn't you say?

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

Before i address the rest of your post, what i was saying is that your book DOES allow the indoor sheltering of believers, whereas in your posts in this thread you have been quite anti-church building, no exceptions.

Seems impractical to have the building around only for when there's bad weather. And sheltering from the sun is a daily factor in the summer months, at least in my region.

If the building is there, makes sense to use it more often. I agree with what your book said about not locking the doors and there shouldn't be anything there worth stealing, by the way. Though unfortunately there is the issue of vandalism...

Jesus indeed told His Disciples to suffer the little children unto HIM and NOT to some satanic church. How many children have been molested, raped and murdered by the churches and their clergy? How much more obvious does it need to be made that churches are DETRIMENTAL to the spiritual and physical health and well-being of both children and adults?

The Roman Catholics will cry that "it's just a few bad apples" as if that is a valid excuse for what their paedophile priests have done, even though it only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. The bishops and cardinals, many of which are also paedophiles, not only cover up these crimes, but they shuffle the paedophile priests around so they can molest even more children.

And the Protestant denominations will point their fingers at the Roman Catholics, as if child molestation doesn't happen in the Protestant denominations too, which it does.

Well, predictably, i am going to say that it IS a few bad apples, because i think it is. Not ALL pastors or priests are p3dophiles, r@pists, murderers, etc. What the catholic church did to cover up these priest's crimes is inexcusable. What some churches in general have done in the past to cover up abuse is inexcusable.

ALSO i do strongly believe that children should not be separated from their parents, or at least one parent, while at church. Would any of these priests or pastors have been so bold as to molest the children in front of their own watchful parent?

In fact, i find it very suspicious when a church is insistent on the children being left at a nursery or children's church or sunday school or anything of that sort while the parents are supposed to be off in a different area without a care in the world. To me that is unacceptable. We have left churches over this. This is non negotiable to us, and any church that tries to brush away our concerns is suspect.

I won't go as far as to wonder how ANY parent could be ok with this, as i know past lived experiences have a way of teaching hard lessons, but i think the issue is one of children being apart from their parent, not an issue of churches. It's just that people let their guard down at churches more than they would in other scenarios, like sending them to schools or daycares.

Please stop for a moment and THINK about all of the children who have been harmed inside of churches.

I do, as i mentioned in my response.

And about all of the people in recent years who have been shot and murdered inside of churches.

NONE of these sexual assaults and murderers could have taken place if people would simply listen to and heed the numerous Biblical warnings to avoid building or going to these evil places

As far as i know, in recent years it is Christian converts in primarily Muslim countries (where apostasy is punishable by death) in southeast Asia or Africa, who have been murdered while in church. I also know of other converts in these countries who have been martyred at home for their beliefs.

Are you saying that Christians should deny Jesus Christ to save their lives, or are you saying that these people would not have been killed for their beliefs had there not been any churches?

Jesus said it would be better for a millstone to be hanged around the neck of every one of these child-molesting paedophile priests, pastors, rabbis, imams, etc. and to then throw them into the sea rather than to offend even one of these little ones (Matt. 18:6). So why aren't "Christians" doing THAT instead of promoting these man-made, revenue-generating (Matt. 6:24) child-molesting establishments?

Christans are not promoting churches because that's the place to go get molested. That it has happened there at some churches (as it does in other places too) does not mean that is a church's primary purpose. Also note, by Christian i don't mean catholic.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

These points make no sense if the Bible itself was put together by the Church. That means doctrines are based on both tradition and scriptures.

I understand the Catholic position on this, but the answer is slightly more subtle. The early church was plagued by Gnostic writings (e.g. the ones at the Nag Hamadi library) and a number of falsely attributed gospels and letters. The early church councils had the job of identifying the true writings from the counterfeit ones. It would appear to me that were obviously good, others were obviously bad (like Sophia and the Archons) while the remaining doubtful ones ended up in the Apocrypha!

Think of anti-virus software scanning files. Some files are fine, others flag up as viruses for removal and still others end up in quarantine. This carries less of a sense of being “put together” and far more of being “discerned”.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

It is intriguing to note that the letters in Revelation 2&3 to the churches are not just to the churches at the time of writing, but appear to correspond to specific periods of church history.

From this, it can’t be denied that Jesus regards Catholicism as “a church” but it does appear to be one He has some issues with…

Revelation 2

18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;​

​

19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.​

​

@Padre_Neo - please note that Jesus commends the church for its good works and that they are even increasing, but then goes on to identify the problems.​

​

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.​

​

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.​

It is important how the passage connects the reader to the story of Jezebel, perhaps one of the lowest points in the history of Israel. Jezebel was noted for her dominance over Ahab and for the way she brought in pagan religion to cause Israel to sin. She falsely accused Naboth to get him out of the way, not unlike the inquisitions. There is much more that could be said on this….​

​

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.​

​

23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.​

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24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.​

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25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.​

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*It would appear that Jesus recognises true believers within this church, but doesn’t gloss over that fact that in also includes “the depths of Satan”​

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26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:​

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27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.​

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28 And I will give him the morning star.​

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29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.​

 

[A Freeman]

Before i address the rest of your post, what i was saying is that your book DOES allow the indoor sheltering of believers, whereas in your posts in this thread you have been quite anti-church building, no exceptions.

Seems impractical to have the building around only for when there's bad weather. And sheltering from the sun is a daily factor in the summer months, at least in my region.

If the building is there, makes sense to use it more often. I agree with what your book said about not locking the doors and there shouldn't be anything there worth stealing, by the way. Though unfortunately there is the issue of vandalism...



Well, predictably, i am going to say that it IS a few bad apples, because i think it is. Not ALL pastors or priests are p3dophiles, r@pists, murderers, etc. What the catholic church did to cover up these priest's crimes is inexcusable. What some churches in general have done in the past to cover up abuse is inexcusable.

ALSO i do strongly believe that children should not be separated from their parents, or at least one parent, while at church. Would any of these priests or pastors have been so bold as to molest the children in front of their own watchful parent?

In fact, i find it very suspicious when a church is insistent on the children being left at a nursery or children's church or sunday school or anything of that sort while the parents are supposed to be off in a different area without a care in the world. To me that is unacceptable. We have left churches over this. This is non negotiable to us, and any church that tries to brush away our concerns is suspect.

I won't go as far as to wonder how ANY parent could be ok with this, as i know past lived experiences have a way of teaching hard lessons, but i think the issue is one of children being apart from their parent, not an issue of churches. It's just that people let their guard down at churches more than they would in other scenarios, like sending them to schools or daycares.


I do, as i mentioned in my response.


As far as i know, in recent years it is Christian converts in primarily Muslim countries (where apostasy is punishable by death) in southeast Asia or Africa, who have been murdered while in church. I also know of other converts in these countries who have been martyred at home for their beliefs.

Are you saying that Christians should deny Jesus Christ to save their lives, or are you saying that these people would not have been killed for their beliefs had there not been any churches?


Christans are not promoting churches because that's the place to go get molested. That it has happened there at some churches (as it does in other places too) does not mean that is a church's primary purpose. Also note, by Christian i don't mean catholic.

You are trying to argue that up is down and that evil is good, etc., which will never work. The traditions of men (e.g. "churchianity") make the Commandments of God of no effect according to Christ, and yet you are here promoting these Babylonian/Roman traditions. Why?

The Bible explicitly and repeatedly condemns ALL churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, etc. as well as the priests, pastors, rabbis and imams, etc. who work in them.

This is very, very simple: There is ONE Master-Teacher (Matt. 23:8-10), ONE Mediator between God and men (1 Tim. 2:5), ONE High-Priest for ALL-time (Heb. 6:20), and ONE Good Shepherd (Pastor - John 10:1-18). ONE MEANS ONE. It doesn't mean two or three, nor does it mean hundreds of thousands or millions.

Why do "Christians" struggle so much with simple math? The definition of the word/number "one" is as follows:
(from: https://www.wordnik.com/words/one)

• Being a single entity, unit, object, or living being.
• Characterized by unity; undivided.

So, according to Christ (The ONE Whom the ONE True God Anointed and sent to Earth), there is no such thing as a priest, pastor, rabbi, imam, etc., except in the minds of those who believe in such fantasies (based upon the traditions of men). Why then would there be any need for these pretended teachers, priests, pastors, etc. to have a place of business (church, synagogue, mosque, temple, shrine, etc.) where God does NOT dwell? So they can continue to fleece the sheep (steal) under false pretenses?

Along with others on this forum, you have been presented with the irrefutable facts that children are sexually assaulted in such places (churches, etc.), and that men, women and children have been murdered in such places and yet here you are trying to argue why we really need to support and perpetuate these evil places and evil people, while trying to redefine all of this as "good" (Isa. 5:20-21). Why?

Catholic Church sex abuse cases in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A list of some US house of worship shootings since 2012

Some fatal shootings that have happened at U.S. houses of worship since 2012: Oct. 27, 2018: A gunman believed to have spewed anti-Semitic slurs and rhetoric on social media entered Tree of Life Congregation synagogue in Pittsburgh and opened fire, killing 11 and wounding six, including four...

apnews.com

If it was actually God's Will for people to attend churches, etc., do you really believe God wouldn't be blessing and protecting them as He has PROMISED to do for those who obey Him?

Deuteronomy 11:26-27
11:26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
11:27 A blessing, if ye obey The Commandments of the "I AM" your God, which I command you this day:
11:28 And a curse, if ye will NOT obey The Commandments of the "I AM" your God, but turn aside out of The Way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

Every single so-called church-attending Christian is denying and directly disobeying Christ, and then wonders why all of this evil is perpetrated by the very same people that Christ warned us about in the very places He told us to avoid because only heathens and hypocrites go there. And yet here you are advocating we keep disobeying Christ as if ANY good can come of that. Why?

Anyone who reads The Way home or face The Fire by JAH and (mistakenly) believes it is somehow promoting churches and their clergy must either be sound asleep spiritually or intentionally trying to be deceptive. Even from the chapter titles it ought to be self-evident that it is in perfect agreement with the Scripture in condemning the churches and their priests, pastors, etc.

Chapter 8. “The Shining Example.” (The Light of the World.)
Chapter 9. “The Birth of Christianity as yet another religion.”
Chapter 10. “Mohammed and the Birth of Islam as yet another religion.”
Chapter 11. “Satan’s use of Religions to Divide, Conquer and Rule.”

Please see the excerpt below, which should remove all doubt about whether we should obey Christ and avoid churches and their leaders like the plague or whether we should continue disobeying Christ by attending such evil places:

8:13 Once his training was completed, he started to teach people to leave organized-religion, and go into their closets to speak to God. Jesus was pulling people away from the church and their organized-religion, and was teaching them by the sea and on the mountain-sides, and the priests were losing their prestige, and the respect of the people, and their power over the people, and they were also losing MONEY. The churches’ lucrative business was crumbling, so they had to find a way to stop Jesus, and they tried to trick him, into saying something, for which they could prosecute him (by their own laws/legislation, NOT God’s Laws) and have him killed; but he was far too clever for them (Mark 12:13 & Luke 11:54 & 20:20).
8:14 The priests, who CLAIM to represent God, were trying to murder God’s Son, “LEGALLY”, when God says you must not murder. I say “LEGALLY”, referring to their customs and traditions (the Talmud), that they had made up themselves, to allow themselves to break God’s Laws. They made up their own laws, thereby making God’s Laws obsolete (ineffective - Mark 7:9, 13), and gave THEMSELVES the right (?) to murder Jesus (Hosea 4:6)(John 16:1-4).
8:15 Today the situation is many times WORSE, because of men having made up so many thousands, of their own laws, to enable themselves (the rich) to break God’s Laws, that mankind has forgotten that God’s Laws (the Royal Perfect Laws of Liberty) even EXIST. God’s Laws; Statutes and Judgements; etc., are the ONLY ones that exist, and ALL of today’s, many THOUSANDS of UNLAWFUL human laws/legislation and judgements, do not exist, as far as God is concerned; except in your minds (Matt. 5:18). Do NOT be fooled — God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows, THAT shall he also reap (Galatians 6:7).
8:16 Anyone making up, administering or enforcing UNLAWFUL human laws/legislation and judgements, will be SEVERELY punished by God. The other people; who permit the making up of UNLAWFUL human legislation and judgements; punish themselves, because of the effect, that these UNLAWFUL and UNJUST laws have, on society. Men’s UNLAWFUL and UNJUST laws/legislation also punish the innocent, more than the guilty.
8:17 Jesus gave the parable (illustrative story), of the vineyard (world), and the owner of the vineyard (God), and the husbandmen or workers (priests), and the servants of the owner (the Prophets), and the son of the owner (Prince Michael/Christ - Matt. 21:31-46 & Mark 12:1-13 & Luke 20:9-21).
8:18 Through the parable of the vineyard, Jesus was foretelling, that the priests, who had beaten and murdered God’s Prophets (messengers), would murder His Son, and that God will destroy the priests and non-believers in “The Fire” on the Last- Day, if they do not repent. The Jewish people have never repented, because they refuse to accept, that Jesus was God’s Son, incarnated, and to follow His teachings and example.
8:19 The New Testament is ABSOLUTELY FULL, of messages against priests; their organized-religions; lawyers and politicians.
8:20 It was the PRIESTS and their RELIGION, that had Jesus nailed on the cross; leaving a PERMANENT testimony to the world, of how priests and organized-religions belong to Satan, and had murdered the human-animal, that was worn by Christ, God’s Son.
8:21 Just HOW obvious does it have to be, before you can see the TRUTH? After all Jesus said, and went through on the cross, to show that organized-religion is wrong; there are more religions today, than ever before.
8:22 You can be sure that on Prince Michael/Christ’s second -coming, when he brings the SAME message again (the message and truth will NEVER change), all the priests in the world (Satan’s unwitting employees), and especially the pope, will be the first to call him insane and a blasphemer. The pope will probably try to excommunicate him, and tell him that he (Prince Michael) will never go to heaven, for saying that God is his Father. What a joke! It is the pope who will NEVER go to heaven. Heaven is Christ’s home, He is the Prince of heaven. The pope, however, is a servant of Satan and will burn, with him.
8:23 The priests all have their very lucrative businesses to protect, and their position of respect, and power over the people, to protect too.
8:24 On the second -coming, Christ will not be called Jesus, because he will have a new human-name (Rev. 3:12), and he will, first of all, try to peacefully destroy ALL organized-religions. The priests and religious people will say that he is the false prophet, but it is organized-religion, and its false interpretations and teachings, that is the false prophet, as it ALWAYS has been. Hopefully he will succeed, whilst in human-form, because THIS TIME it will NOT just be a gesture, but a LAST chance, and the Last-Day will be right behind him (Sura 43:61), and you will already have had almost 2000 years, to get it RIGHT and go home.
8:25 You are still here. Why? If I were you; I would be very worried and be doing my UTMOST, to be like Jesus. Perhaps you all WANT to die?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

A short passage from the book of Acts (6) illustrates a scenario where organisation becomes necessary. To keep pressing on the “organisation is evil” point is beginning to sound silly now.


Acts 6
King James Version

6 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

 

[A Freeman]

So when you talk of the Law, you mean as far as Jesus summarised it?

Yes, although nothing has changed in The Law by Jesus' summary (including the fact that it's impossible to keep the First Commandment whilst worshiping a pagan "trinity").

Mark 12:29-31
12:29 And Jesus answered him, The First of all the Commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is ONE Lord:
12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength and serve Him ONLY: this [is] the first COMMANDment.
12:31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other COMMANDment greater than these.

So are you trying to encourage people to love God and each other?

Yes, in exactly The Way that we've been Commanded and taught to do so by Christ.

I’m definitely on board with that, but now I don’t understand why the need for all this Qur’an integration and fires etc? Doesn’t mainstream Christianity promote that message anyway?

No, mainstream "Christianity" only pretends to do that, whilst promoting its own doctrines, rites, rituals, traditions, and superstitions, etc., which are in opposition to Christ's True Teachings found in the Gospel accounts. But we've been over all of that before.

Christianity teaches:		Christ teaches:
God is allegedly three individual gods that aren't really three gods but one god playing three different roles Father allegedly is one-third of a 3=1 “trinity” god Christ allegedly is one-third of the 3=1 “trinity” god Jesus allegedly was/is one-third of the 3=1 “trinity” god The Holy Spirit allegedly is one-third of the 3=1 “trinity” god Allegedly, The Father = The Son = The Holy Spirit God allegedly has brethren God allegedly has many brethren Christ did away with The Law Keeping God's Law/Commandments allegedly isn't necessary, and deemed to be impossible Anyone who allegedly believes in Jesus has been “saved”, regardless of what they say or do We can allegedly judge ourselves to be “saved” by following what Christianity teaches We should allegedly go to church, because that's what God supposedly wants us to do We should allegedly pray to the 3=1 “trinity” We should allegedly pray by repeating pledges, creeds and doctrines in church, to show others we believe as they do We should supposedly sing a bunch of silly songs together in church to make ourselves feel better We should allegedly be baptized by humans with water “Holy Communion” allegedly is a ritual involving wafers and wine We should allegedly trust in human leaders Priests, pastors, etc. are allegedly closer to God and supposedly work for God We allegedly are humans that have a soul We allegedly get only one human lifetime to get it right or burn for eternity There are allegedly thousands of different ways that lead back home, to heaven We are all allegedly relatively good people, living relatively good lives If we live, what Christianity considers to be a good human life, we allegedly will go to heaven Many “Christians” have allegedly already gone to heaven Many “Christians” will allegedly be “raptured” and thus supposedly will not have to face Judgment on Judgment Day Many devout“Christians” will allegedly go to heaven Allegedly many will be saved		There is One God Father is God Christ is the first-created Son of God Jesus was the human Son of Mary whom Christ incarnated 2000 years ago (aka the "Son of Man") The Holy Spirit is our spiritual connection to/with Father Father is Greater than All, including Christ (and is Christ's God too) God has children (many sons) Christ, the Son of God, has many brethren The Law will NEVER pass away Keeping God's Law/Commandments is absolutely essential and is certainly possible with God's Help Those who truly believe Christ was incarnated inside Jesus will follow His Example and become Christ-like Father has committed all Judgment to Christ, Who will judge everyone one according to their works on the Last Day Only hypocrites and heathens go to church, to be seen by others We should pray to Father We should pray to Father in private, and with thoughts (telepathically) rather than with spoken words We should be learning the “New Song”, which is the perfect harmony of the “Song of Moses” and the “Song of the Lamb” We should be baptized by Christ with “Fire” (the Holy Spirit) Holy Communion is being at One With Father and His Christ We should trust in Father and His Christ Priests, pastors, etc. do not work for God and are leading their followers to their destruction We are spiritual-Beings (Souls) temporarily incarnated inside of a human We have been mercifully given many human lifetimes to learn from God how to be good There is ONE Way home, and that is by following Christ's Example We are all sinners/criminals, i.e. selfish people who do evil things to one another We will all be judged according to whether our works follow Christ's Example No one has ever gone to heaven, except for Christ, Who came from heaven Everyone will have to face Judgment on Judgment Day No “Christian” will go to heaven Only 144,000 will be redeemed from the Earth (all of whom are true Israelites)

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Yes, although nothing has changed in The Law by Jesus' summary (including the fact that it's impossible to keep the First Commandment whilst worshiping a pagan "trinity").

Mark 12:29-31
12:29 And Jesus answered him, The First of all the Commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is ONE Lord:
12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength and serve Him ONLY: this [is] the first COMMANDment.
12:31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other COMMANDment greater than these.


Yes, in exactly The Way that we've been Commanded and taught to do so by Christ.


No, mainstream "Christianity" only pretends to do that, whilst promoting its own doctrines, rites, rituals, traditions, and superstitions, etc., which are in opposition to Christ's True Teachings found in the Gospel accounts. But we've been over all of that before.

Christianity teaches:		Christ teaches:
God is allegedly three individual gods that aren't really three gods but one god playing three different roles Father allegedly is one-third of a 3=1 “trinity” god Christ allegedly is one-third of the 3=1 “trinity” god Jesus allegedly was/is one-third of the 3=1 “trinity” god The Holy Spirit allegedly is one-third of the 3=1 “trinity” god Allegedly, The Father = The Son = The Holy Spirit God allegedly has brethren God allegedly has many brethren Christ did away with The Law Keeping God's Law/Commandments allegedly isn't necessary, and deemed to be impossible Anyone who allegedly believes in Jesus has been “saved”, regardless of what they say or do We can allegedly judge ourselves to be “saved” by following what Christianity teaches We should allegedly go to church, because that's what God supposedly wants us to do We should allegedly pray to the 3=1 “trinity” We should allegedly pray by repeating pledges, creeds and doctrines in church, to show others we believe as they do We should supposedly sing a bunch of silly songs together in church to make ourselves feel better We should allegedly be baptized by humans with water “Holy Communion” allegedly is a ritual involving wafers and wine We should allegedly trust in human leaders Priests, pastors, etc. are allegedly closer to God and supposedly work for God We allegedly are humans that have a soul We allegedly get only one human lifetime to get it right or burn for eternity There are allegedly thousands of different ways that lead back home, to heaven We are all allegedly relatively good people, living relatively good lives If we live, what Christianity considers to be a good human life, we allegedly will go to heaven Many “Christians” have allegedly already gone to heaven Many “Christians” will allegedly be “raptured” and thus supposedly will not have to face Judgment on Judgment Day Many devout“Christians” will allegedly go to heaven Allegedly many will be saved		There is One God Father is God Christ is the first-created Son of God Jesus was the human Son of Mary whom Christ incarnated 2000 years ago (aka the "Son of Man") The Holy Spirit is our spiritual connection to/with Father Father is Greater than All, including Christ (and is Christ's God too) God has children (many sons) Christ, the Son of God, has many brethren The Law will NEVER pass away Keeping God's Law/Commandments is absolutely essential and is certainly possible with God's Help Those who truly believe Christ was incarnated inside Jesus will follow His Example and become Christ-like Father has committed all Judgment to Christ, Who will judge everyone one according to their works on the Last Day Only hypocrites and heathens go to church, to be seen by others We should pray to Father We should pray to Father in private, and with thoughts (telepathically) rather than with spoken words We should be learning the “New Song”, which is the perfect harmony of the “Song of Moses” and the “Song of the Lamb” We should be baptized by Christ with “Fire” (the Holy Spirit) Holy Communion is being at One With Father and His Christ We should trust in Father and His Christ Priests, pastors, etc. do not work for God and are leading their followers to their destruction We are spiritual-Beings (Souls) temporarily incarnated inside of a human We have been mercifully given many human lifetimes to learn from God how to be good There is ONE Way home, and that is by following Christ's Example We are all sinners/criminals, i.e. selfish people who do evil things to one another We will all be judged according to whether our works follow Christ's Example No one has ever gone to heaven, except for Christ, Who came from heaven Everyone will have to face Judgment on Judgment Day No “Christian” will go to heaven Only 144,000 will be redeemed from the Earth (all of whom are true Israelites)

Interesting read! I think the column on the left is pure straw man. It might be an interesting exercise to deconstruct point by point but I haven’t the time right now.

 

[A Freeman]

A short passage from the book of Acts (6) illustrates a scenario where organisation becomes necessary. To keep pressing on the “organisation is evil” point is beginning to sound silly now.

The Truth will always sound silly to those who don't believe it. How does Acts 6 illustrate any need for an organisation? It doesn't say or imply that at all does it?

King of kings' Bible - John 8:35-36 (John 8:44-45 KJV)
8:35 Ye are of [YOUR] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the Truth, because there is no Truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father (inventor) of it.
8:36 And because I tell [you] the Truth, ye believe me not.

Acts 6
King James Version

6 And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
2 Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
3 Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
8 And Stephen, full of faith and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Acts 7
King James Version

48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth NOT in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have NOT kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

It should be self-evident if God doesn't dwell in churches, then they must be satanic, for what fellowship hath Righteousness with Unrighteousness? And what communion hath Light with Darkness?

2 Corinthians
King James Version

14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 and what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?