why Christians reject Roman Catholic church

[Alanantic]

There are indeed many great men who have lived, loved, struggled, thought, wrote and died.

Jesus died and His disciples went back to their day jobs in sadness.

Something happened to change them.

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I was raised a Christian. I'm well acquainted with the tales of Jesus. Many have similar tales. Miracles surround all great spiritual leaders. What's more important is their message.

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

I was raised a Christian. I'm well acquainted with the tales of Jesus. Many have similar tales. Miracles surround all great spiritual leaders. What's more important is their message.

Tales of miracles certainly do. What do you make of the Resurrection? Do you dismiss it as just one more pious myth?

You rightly identify that many other people have said things that resonate with the words of Christ. That is to be expected, but I contend there is something unique about Jesus that any skeptic must honestly face.

 

[Lizard King]

There are indeed many great men who have lived, loved, struggled, thought, wrote and died.

Jesus died and His disciples went back to their day jobs in sadness.

Something happened to change them.

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Charles Colson? Kind of reminds me of the saying: Religion is the last refuge of scoundrels?

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Charles Colson? Kind of reminds me of the saying: Religion is the last refuge of scoundrels?

Do you disagree with his estimation? Would you go to your death for something you knew to be a lie?

 

[Lizard King]

Well I guess that sometimes people must wonder why God created bed bugs, fleas and mosquitoes. No one really knows even if they think they do. There really is no rational explanation and even if there were what good does it do one if they are living in a skid row Hotel being eaten alive by them ? Some questions have no answers and I guess that kind of sums up the conundrum of what is called religion. Look what happened to Job. The Devil and God get into an argument over whether or not Job could ever lose his faith if he loses everything he has and has to suffer horrible agony. But the question still remains why this was even necessary. And that leaves us at where we are today. Why can't we catch a break? Why must we suffer and be tortured by unseen forces for no logical reason. We are mere mortals but who doesn't want to be immortal ? The sky never ends yet we must serve time on this ball of confusion. And where is Cloud Nine where you can be what you want to be and Psychedelic Shack that's where it's at people walking round reciting poetry.

 

[Lyfe]

Well I guess that sometimes people must wonder why God created bed bugs, fleas and mosquitoes. No one really knows even if they think they do. There really is no rational explanation and even if there were what good does it do one if they are living in a skid row Hotel being eaten alive by them ? Some questions have no answers and I guess that kind of sums up the conundrum of what is called religion. Look what happened to Job. The Devil and God get into an argument over whether or not Job could ever lose his faith if he loses everything he has and has to suffer horrible agony. But the question still remains why this was even necessary. And that leaves us at where we are today. Why can't we catch a break? Why must we suffer and be tortured by unseen forces for no logical reason. We are mere mortals but who doesn't want to be immortal ? The sky never ends yet we must serve time on this ball of confusion. And where is Cloud Nine where you can be what you want to be and Psychedelic Shack that's where it's at people walking round reciting poetry.

If you consider how infinite God is and his promise to one day put an end to sin then you come to realize how short lived this present distress will be. This age of sin and free will will only represent a dot in comparison to the infinite line of eternity. If you consider things from these perspectives then your outlook changes. You ask when will it end and from heaven they blink and it's all over. In hindsight will all of this serve no purpose? There will be lessons to this time that all of eternity will glean from.

 

[Alanantic]

Tales of miracles certainly do. What do you make of the Resurrection? Do you dismiss it as just one more pious myth?

You rightly identify that many other people have said things that resonate with the words of Christ. That is to be expected, but I contend there is something unique about Jesus that any skeptic must honestly face.

Hey, I'm a 49er fan. They constantly do unique things. You're a fan of Jesus. I get that. No one now, knows what happened back then. Those 3 wise men may have returned in their "star" and repaired him. All miracles are science we don't understand. But, again, that's not what's important. There's One Thing that is unique among all great spiritual leaders and that's that they all had what in the East is called cosmic consciousness or enlightenment. In the Biblical sense AND Eastern sense, he was a god. The difference between us & Them is we are not conscious of the fact that we are God; in fact, Everything is God, and they were conscious of it. The universe is a playground for us children of God. It's where we grow into Adults.

Is it not written in your law, "I said, Ye are gods"? -- John 10:34

"I have said, ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. -- Psalms 82:6

 

[Lyfe]

If the prince of tyre in his exalted position never reached godhood how do you expect to as one who pays taxes?

Ezekiel 28:1-2
English Standard Version

28 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 (A)“Son of man, say to (B)the prince of Tyre, Thus says the Lord God:
(C)“Because your heart is proud,
and (D)you have said, ‘I am a god,
I sit in the seat of the gods,
in the heart of the seas,’
yet (E)you are but a man, and no god,
(F)though you make your heart like the heart of a god—

 

[Lizard King]

Let's not forget the Vatican signed a concordant with Adolf Hitler to enact mandatory sterilization in Germany in 1933.

 

[Maldarker]

How about the Jesusits? Least we forget the shady history that they are involved with unless going to say not part of the Catho church

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

Let's not forget the Vatican signed a concordant with Adolf Hitler to enact mandatory sterilization in Germany in 1933.

#Catholicism*

Noun - A religion based on Christianity

 

[Alanantic]

Let's not forget why we're all here.

 

[JoChris]

For people with time to listen, Pastor Hoggard did a talk on this today:

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

On the surface there was not an obvious sin like adultery that would have had made the church's decision easier.

Yes, obvious visible sins, would make it easier to decide who to discipline. I can't imagine most adulterers are out in the open about their sin, so it winds up being a matter of who is dumb enough to get caught.

Sometimes people just have prickly personalities (I approached them like that until towards the end).
For the general picture, think Ned Flanders with a very disagreeable personality and then lying by omission when confronted.

They were armchair critics of how things are run but they didn't want to actively help out at the church.

The husband thought because he had more formal secular qualifications that meant he knew more than the pastor about everything, including doctrine.

They were very judgemental of church members who did not get actively involved in local politics. They were an older couple with no kids at home any more. The wife really offended some women with her snobbishness.

I recognised from the outset that they were "fake nice" personalities. Some people just care too much about what other people think and it shows. I only shared personal information in general chit-chat with the wife I am happy to share with just about anyone. Other women must not have had that detector and so the wife deeply hurt several women who had troubles with children for various reasons.

It all added up to the point it was causing division and a hesitancy to be open with each other in case of what the couple might say/ do next.

Ok, i see, thanks for the examples.

We were not at any of the churches long enough to see full blown church discipline, but these are some examples of things i saw publicly chastised before the congregation.

- "fat shaming", multiple comments about a churchgoer being a sinful glutton because he was very overweight. This one annoys me because it's very well possible to be a glutton and not show it outwardly if one just pigs out on veggies - same constant urge to stuff one's face but none of the physical evidence.

- shamed for not wearing a suit. NOWHERE does the Bible say men are required to wear a 3 piece suit. Im not saying show up in shorts, pajamas or sandals, but how is business casual not acceptable? As "proof" the pastor gave Gen35:2 "Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments", which seems less relevant than not treating the rich better than the poor.

- it was a sin to go to the movies, or watch tv. While this may be wise, how is this biblical and not just a personal conviction issue?

- it is a sin to dress in "rock and roll fashion", meaning a fur fringe on a jacket or leather/imitation leather.

- it is sinful to drive a sports car because it's "immodest", yet most of the churchgoers at this particular church drove luxury cars

And so on.

Since i don't have a confrontational personality, i wouldn't stick around to be disciplined and instead would just choose to voluntarily leave...

 

[A Freeman]

By "early church" i did mean the community of believers, not a church building. The early believers met in a believers house as the Bible tells us.

They did not meet in a church building. But the passage i quoted earlier from Acts 20 mentions that there was "preaching" involved.

So in your mind this one verse means we should all go to church on Sundays, and listen to people that call themselves "preachers"?

What would you make of Hebrews 10:25 about not forsaking the assembly? Are you saying it doesn't have to be in a church building as opposed to anywhere 2 or 3 are gathered in his name? Or that the day of the gathering is not specified as a command?

It sounds like you've answered your own question. Hebrews 10:25 is speaking about not isolating one's self from the world, as some do, but instead meeting with fellow believers. This could be anywhere that 2 or 3 are gathered in His Name. And no, there is no Command anywhere in Scripture for us to gather ourselves in large assemblies on the first day of the week; however there absolutely is a Command for us to honor the Sabbath day (7th day of the week) and to keep it Holy.

In practical terms, what does this mean to you today?

Everyone should be learning The Law that God gave us, so they understand what is right and what is wrong in God's Eyes. That can and should be accomplished at home and in private on the Sabbath day, which is supposed to be a day of rest, both from work-related activities and from the world. A day apart with God, getting to know Him and His Perfect Mind (which created The Perfect Law).

Church buildings (and synagogues, mosques, temples, etc.) should all be turned into housing for the poor, so that they could do some good, instead of being used to conduct man-made rites and rituals for an hour each week, so we can be seen by others pretending to be "good people".

It's truly amazing that Christ repeatedly condemned the religious/political leaders and their traditions/practices, which make the Commandments of God of no effect (proven beyond any reasonable doubt by the religious/political leaders having Jesus murdered), and yet 2000 years later people are still running to their religious and political leaders to donate their time and money to these spiritually blind thieves and vipers.

 

[Lizard King]

The church on the corner down the street from me put locks on their water faucets so homeless people can't drink out of them even in the summer when it gets over 100 degrees. Wonder what Jesus would think about that?

 

[Lyfe]

The church on the corner down the street from me put locks on their water faucets so homeless people can't drink out of them even in the summer when it gets over 100 degrees. Wonder what Jesus would think about that?

Well,

Do we as individuals go out of our way to help the homeless? Allot of what we judge the churches for doing and not doing we ourselves are guilty of.

We must all repent(including myself).

Sow for yourselves righteousness; reap steadfast love; break up your fallow ground, for it is the time to seek the LORD, that he may come and rain righteousness upon you. Hosea 10:12

 

[Lizard King]

Well,

Do we as individuals go out of our way to help the homeless? Allot of what we judge the churches for doing and not doing we ourselves are guilty of.

We must all repent(including myself).

Sow for yourselves righteousness; reap steadfast love; break up your fallow ground, for it is the time to seek the LORD, that he may come and rain righteousness upon you. Hosea 10:12

I go out of my way to avoid the homeless because around here at least they are pretty scary and a lot of them have mental problems and are extremely filthy but I'm not pretending to be a saint nor raking in tax free cash like that church is .

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

[

So in your mind this one verse means we should all go to church on Sundays, and listen to people that call themselves "preachers"?

Lol i literally never said that. What i said was
- there was no "church building", believers met at a believers house
- the Bible shows they met on a sunday
- at this meeting Paul was preaching, so they weren't just having a meal but also listening to preaching

I am not saying we should all go to church on sunday, but i am saying that if a person DOES do that there is some biblical basis, and it's not necessarily because theyre following catholic customs.

Church buildings (and synagogues, mosques, temples, etc.) should all be turned into housing for the poor, so that they could do some good, instead of being used to conduct man-made rites and rituals for an hour each week, so we can be seen by others pretending to be "good people".

I can agree with this, particularly the catholic churches and thrones made of gold.

Everyone should be learning The Law that God gave us, so they understand what is right and what is wrong in God's Eyes. That can and should be accomplished at home and in private on the Sabbath day, which is supposed to be a day of rest, both from work-related activities and from the world. A day apart with God, getting to know Him and His Perfect Mind (which created The Perfect Law).

So from friday sundown until saturday sundown people (who are fortunate to have a non v@x requiring job that gives them that day off) should be studying God's word at home?

I can actually agree with that. I don't refer to it as "keeping the Sabbath" but i see nothing wrong with studying the word at home and focusing on God.

Of course i will also recognize that i am very fortunate in having the option to do so. I would not judge or blame the poor who have to take on whatever job is available at whatever hours their boss decides. That matter is between that person and God, who knows all.

 

[ToxicFemininitySucks]

The church on the corner down the street from me put locks on their water faucets so homeless people can't drink out of them even in the summer when it gets over 100 degrees. Wonder what Jesus would think about that?

That reminds me of a catholic i knew in high school who threw a perfectly good uneaten burger in the trash because it was friday and no one is allowed to eat it. Made me so mad!

I go out of my way to avoid the homeless because around here at least they are pretty scary and a lot of them have mental problems and are extremely filthy but I'm not pretending to be a saint nor raking in tax free cash like that church is .

I try to help the homeless but its on a case by case basis, some of them are either on drugs or otherwise about to snap and i avoid those. But if im not getting any red flags i usually help. I give them a gospel tract too lol.