Bible verses contrasted with false teacher/s' doctrines

[JoChris]

No I don’t, please elaborate…

If you go to a Christian apologetics website to compare RC doctrine with Protestant Christian doctrine you will see some massive differences. I am leaving it there.

 

[JoChris]

He did have a point with this theory :
Carl Jung's theory is the collective unconscious He believed that human beings are connected to each other and their ancestors through a shared set of experiences. We use this collective consciousness to give meaning to the world.

Secular way of saying the sins of the father plus seems that science finally caught up to the bible (there is an article about how dna is changing from experinces holocaust surviors pass the trauma to their childern and they are having same trauma without experincing the actual event...even the childern of the childern so generational passing of trauma)

Jung made some very good points about human spirituality. We are more than mind and body.
His religious viewpoints he smuggled in amongst his work is what is so dangerous.

 

[SnowFall]

If you go to a Christian apologetics website to compare RC doctrine with Protestant Christian doctrine you will see some massive differences. I am leaving it there.

I thought this was a thread about comparing true Christian teaching with false Christian teaching?

obviously you consider Catholicism to be wrong and I consider all forms of Protestantism to be heretical nonsense so surely this is the thread to hash that out?

 

[Maldarker]

No I don’t, please elaborate…

Serious? How about RC changing the actual 10 commandments:

Jung made some very good points about human spirituality. We are more than mind and body.
His religious viewpoints he smuggled in amongst his work is what is so dangerous.

Yup thats the scary part need to always watch for that sneaky crap...hold everything to the light of scripture.

 

[JoChris]

I thought this was a thread about comparing true Christian teaching with false Christian teaching?

obviously you consider Catholicism to be wrong and I consider all forms of Protestantism to be heretical nonsense so surely this is the thread to hash that out?

I am starting a new thread for Christian versus RC doctrine. Here is not the place.

 

[SnowFall]

Serious? How about RC changing the actual 10 commandments: View attachment 82857

Yup thats the scary part need to always watch for that sneaky crap...hold everything to the light of scripture.

Nope we didn’t: https://www.catholicbridge.com/catholic/10-commandments.php

 

[Maldarker]

I am starting a new thread for Christian versus RC doctrine. Here is not the place.

think a thread is already made about that might want to search...

 

[SnowFall]

I am starting a new thread for Christian versus RC doctrine. Here is not the place.

I find it rather arrogant and quite insulting that you don’t consider Catholicism to be Christian but fine, we’ll move to a new thread…

 

[Maldarker]

Nope we didn’t: https://www.catholicbridge.com/catholic/10-commandments.php

well explain the pic i showed not the one you did it doesn't address it.

 

[SnowFall]

think a thread is already made about that might want to search...

I might’ve made one a while back…

 

[JoChris]

well explain the pic i showed not the one you did it doesn't address it.

I started a new thread even though I am sure the topic has been beaten to death multiple times already.

 

[SnowFall]

well explain the pic i showed not the one you did it doesn't address it.

Any questions?

 

[Maldarker]

Any questions?

not watching a video so yeah...give me a break down give discussion or show me documents that disprove my pic from earlier

The wording changed from the biblical text so....yeah would say thats changing it when the bible says don't do it...but hey why not.....(catholic popes down through the ages)

 

[JoChris]

Many false teachers over the centuries have had been guilty of the legalism mentioned in the above verses.

There is a massive difference between told to marry wisely - Christians are told not to yoke with unbelievers after all - and being told by a religious leader WHO to marry or not to marry at all.

There is a massive difference between being a good steward of the body God gave us, and a leader telling us we MUST not eat certain foods because that is sinful.

A Christian needs to use wisdom and righteous judgement in all matters.

 

[AspiringSoul]

This is a true Christianity versus FALSE Christianity discussion thread. It isn't Christianity versus false religions thread.

that's precisely why im pointing out that fake christianity made Jesus intafter Jesus and the apostles.
your misinterpretations of the New testament won't work with me because there are plenty of new testament quotes proving Jesus is not God.
since Jesus said THE SON can do nothing of his own and likewise that the Son doesnt know the last hour, only The Father.

if the Son doesnt know everything, then the son is not God.

 

[AspiringSoul]

In the book of revelation Jesus refers to himself as The First and The Last. He is the one that searches mind and heart and will give to each according to their works. Christ is the rider on the white horse in revelation 19 who is referenced as The King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

This is the sort of language that God Almighty would only use when speaking of himself.

1)
Revelation 3
11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.
12 The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name.
13 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

2) 'king of kings' is a title originating from persia, the Shahen Shah was the title given to Cyrus the Great and all subsequent kings. so this one doesnt mean God obv.
ive explained many times that in the psalm 110 context, Jesus is ADONI, not ADONAI...only God is adonai.
there are many 'lords' in this world, so Jesus being lord of lords is acceptable in that sense.

3) Jesus said The SON doesnt know the last hour. He also said the son cannot do anything on his own, but it is the father acting through him. So clearly Jesus is not God.

 

[JoChris]

that's precisely why im pointing out that fake christianity made Jesus intafter Jesus and the apostles.
your misinterpretations of the New testament won't work with me because there are plenty of new testament quotes proving Jesus is not God.
since Jesus said THE SON can do nothing of his own and likewise that the Son doesnt know the last hour, only The Father.

if the Son doesnt know everything, then the son is not God.

Christianity is unable to be understood by those who are not born again.

Born Again | Gospel Basics

When sinners accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, they receive spiritual life through faith is Christ. The Bible likens this to a rebirth.

www.gospelbasics.org

 

[Red Sky at Morning]

that's precisely why im pointing out that fake christianity made Jesus intafter Jesus and the apostles.
your misinterpretations of the New testament won't work with me because there are plenty of new testament quotes proving Jesus is not God.
since Jesus said THE SON can do nothing of his own and likewise that the Son doesnt know the last hour, only The Father.

if the Son doesnt know everything, then the son is not God.

What is the kenosis? What does it mean that Jesus emptied Himself?

The term kenosis refers to the doctrine of Christ’s “self-emptying” in His incarnation. The word comes from the Greek of Philippians 2:7, which says that Jesus “emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men” (ESV). The word translated “emptied” is a form of kenoó, from which we get the word kenosis.

Notice that Philippians 2:7 does not specify what the Son of God “emptied” Himself of. And here we must be careful not to go beyond what Scripture says. Jesus did not empty Himself of His divine attributes—no such attributes are mentioned in the verse, and it is obvious in the gospels that Jesus possessed the power and wisdom of God. Calming the storm is just one display of Jesus’ divine power (Mark 4:39). In coming to earth, the Son of God did not cease to be God, and He did not become a “lesser god.” Whatever the “emptying” entailed, Jesus remained fully God: “in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” (Colossians 2:9).

It is better to think of Christ’s “emptying” of Himself as a laying aside of the privileges that were His in heaven. Rather than stay on His throne in heaven, Jesus “made himself nothing” (as the NIV translates Philippians 2:7). When He came to earth, “he gave up his divine privileges” (NLT). He veiled His glory, and He chose to occupy the position of a slave.

The kenosis was a self-renunciation, not an emptying Himself of deity. Nor was it an exchange of deity for humanity. Jesus never ceased to be God during any part of His earthly ministry. He did set aside His heavenly glory. He also voluntarily refrained from using His divinity to make His way easier. During His earthly ministry, Christ completely submitted Himself to the will of the Father (John 5:19).

As part of the kenosis, Jesus sometimes operated within the limitations of humanity. God does not get tired or thirsty, but Jesus did (John 4:6; 19:28). God knows all things, but it seems that, at least once, Jesus voluntarily surrendered the use of His omniscience (Matthew 24:36). Other times, Jesus’ omniscience was on full display (Luke 6:8; John 13:11; 18:4).

There are some false teachers who take the concept of kenosis too far, saying that Jesus gave up all or some of His divine nature when He came to earth. This heresy is sometimes referred to as the kenosis theory, but a better term is kenoticism or kenotic theology, to distinguish it from biblical understanding of the kenosis.

When it comes to the kenosis, we often focus too much on what Jesus gave up. The kenosis also deals with what Christ took on. Jesus added to His divine nature a human nature as He humbled Himself for us. Jesus went from being the glory of glories in heaven to being a human being who was put to death on the cross. Philippians 2:7–8 declares, “Taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross!” In the ultimate act of humility, the God of the universe became a human being and died for His creation.

The kenosis is the act of Christ taking on a human nature with all of its limitations, except with no sin. As one Bible scholar wrote, “At His incarnation He remained ‘in the form of God’ and as such He is Lord and Ruler over all, but He also accepted the nature of a servant as part of His humanity” (J. J. Müller, The Epistles of Paul to the Philippians and to Philemon, p. 82).

 

[JoChris]

I found one well known preacher who addressed the heresies of Swedenborg in detail. John Wesley was the founder of the Methodist Church.

Wesley and Swedenborg : a fraternal appeal to Methodist ministers, inviting them to consider the relations of Methodism to the New Church : Keyes, E.R : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

72 p

archive.org

Remarks of Rev. John Wesley, on the character and writings of Emmanuel Swedenborg : Wesley, John, 1703-1791 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

A quick skim of Swedenborg's words reminds me of the worst New Apostolic Reformation preachers. Rick Joyner is one of them. He also wrote novels where he allegedly communicated with dead people and angels.

 

[AspiringSoul]

What is the kenosis? What does it mean that Jesus emptied Himself?

The term kenosis refers to the doctrine of Christ’s “self-emptying” in His incarnation. The word comes from the Greek of Philippians 2:7, which says that Jesus “emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men” (ESV). The word translated “emptied” is a form of kenoó, from which we get the word kenosis.

Notice that Philippians 2:7 does not specify what the Son of God “emptied” Himself of. And here we must be careful not to go beyond what Scripture says. Jesus did not empty Himself of His divine attributes—no such attributes are mentioned in the verse, and it is obvious in the gospels that Jesus possessed the power and wisdom of God. Calming the storm is just one display of Jesus’ divine power (Mark 4:39). In coming to earth, the Son of God did not cease to be God, and He did not become a “lesser god.” Whatever the “emptying” entailed, Jesus remained fully God: “in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” (Colossians 2:9).

It is better to think of Christ’s “emptying” of Himself as a laying aside of the privileges that were His in heaven. Rather than stay on His throne in heaven, Jesus “made himself nothing” (as the NIV translates Philippians 2:7). When He came to earth, “he gave up his divine privileges” (NLT). He veiled His glory, and He chose to occupy the position of a slave.

The kenosis was a self-renunciation, not an emptying Himself of deity. Nor was it an exchange of deity for humanity. Jesus never ceased to be God during any part of His earthly ministry. He did set aside His heavenly glory. He also voluntarily refrained from using His divinity to make His way easier. During His earthly ministry, Christ completely submitted Himself to the will of the Father (John 5:19).

As part of the kenosis, Jesus sometimes operated within the limitations of humanity. God does not get tired or thirsty, but Jesus did (John 4:6; 19:28). God knows all things, but it seems that, at least once, Jesus voluntarily surrendered the use of His omniscience (Matthew 24:36). Other times, Jesus’ omniscience was on full display (Luke 6:8; John 13:11; 18:4).

There are some false teachers who take the concept of kenosis too far, saying that Jesus gave up all or some of His divine nature when He came to earth. This heresy is sometimes referred to as the kenosis theory, but a better term is kenoticism or kenotic theology, to distinguish it from biblical understanding of the kenosis.

When it comes to the kenosis, we often focus too much on what Jesus gave up. The kenosis also deals with what Christ took on. Jesus added to His divine nature a human nature as He humbled Himself for us. Jesus went from being the glory of glories in heaven to being a human being who was put to death on the cross. Philippians 2:7–8 declares, “Taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross!” In the ultimate act of humility, the God of the universe became a human being and died for His creation.

The kenosis is the act of Christ taking on a human nature with all of its limitations, except with no sin. As one Bible scholar wrote, “At His incarnation He remained ‘in the form of God’ and as such He is Lord and Ruler over all, but He also accepted the nature of a servant as part of His humanity” (J. J. Müller, The Epistles of Paul to the Philippians and to Philemon, p. 82).

where in the new testament does it say all this?
the fact is trinitarianism completely contradicts every single idea of pure monothiesm outlined throughout the old and new testament.

since the argument here was that Jesus is God based on what is written in the Book of Revelation, why then did Jesus refer to a certain God in the third person? eg 'my God'.

The Logos being eternal does not make it God in of itself. Your own existence is true because God knows you. That knowledge of you is the purest level of your own reality...and yet God's knowledge is Eternal and encompasses all things. Hence the Logos is precisely that. i call it universal consciousness because this idea is shared across multiple religions and the foundations of this idea were certainly the influence behind the incarnation concept. you people have no basic common sense when it comes to even the incarnation topic. it has no foundation in the old testament, it is from hinduism. christianity IS hinduism but the hindus are more intelligent and honest, they understand that the LOGOS is everything..and since they believe the logos (vishnu btw if you want to look it up) is God, then they become panthiest and it leads to idolatory. islam on the underhand esp through sufism has understood this concept (read up on Wahdat al wujud, ibn arabi's 'unity of Being') as 'unity in God' without being God directly.
The logos/universal consciousness in the most accurate understanding is akin to a prism and hence this 'emptying' is about realising the transparency of the spirit (in this case with Jesus, the logos) and it's relationship with God.
If you look at a prism, you see Light. in this comparison, the light represents God. If you see the Son you see God. doesnt make the Son 'God' in the truest sense. This is why i speak about logical left brain perspective vs mystical right brain perspective. This is what John 1:1 touches on.
Christianity via the new testament is perfect and has no flawss. As a muslim ive consistently defended the new testament against attacks by ignorant muslims aswell. Few people can do what i do and i guess the real reason here is that ive got islamic sufism to thank for my deeper understanding of these topics. Islam and sufi islam (whjich focuses more on the mystical side of things) are the glue holding everything together. Without sufi islam every other religion on it's own makes little sense and is stupid. ive studied hinduism in depth and on it's own it would be stupid. having that connection to the Straight path, the middle...it means i can see both the logical arguments and the mystical ideas people often try to pigeon hole into a logical truth.

If i had the 'single eye' and perceived God in the sky and then bowed down to worship, someone might say 'he's worshipping the sky, he thinks the sky is God, he is a kafir' and another might say 'he's worshipping the sky, therefore the sky is God'. All it means is to perceive God in all things (the single eye that is) and yet this is what Jesus referred to when he said 'if you have seen me you have seen God' and then he referred to the things occuring through him like the miracles. He did not take direct ownership over any of it.

you're trying to blag it by saying 'he came onto earth playing the servant'. No, that was not THE SON, that was Jesus. Jesus the prophet, the son of Mary etc which the Quran refers to. The Son is the sum of ALL THINGS and yet you're reducing it to a single 'incarnation' which means you're incredibly dishonest. Jesus said the SON(THE LOGOS WHICH ITSELF IS ETERNAL) doesnt know the last hour. The logos on it's own is as i said, like a prism, it doesnt posess anything of it's own and it is all the power of God manifesting through it. The logos being 'allt hings' means pretty much this is true for all things. nothing exists except by God.

islam focuses on the Absolute point of Godhead. Anything else leads to baby god jesus the white man. colonial bollocks..and what is colonialism but the rise of end times rome? and what is the white man-god but a roman pagan idea designed to hijack christianity.
this is why prophet Mohammad said Jesus will BREAK THE CROSS. The cross is a dead symbol hijacked by Rome, made into a symbol of roman imperialism and the sword. it is not representing the death of the serpent(our carnal nature) any longer.